Scott's Dual RL-p18 'LLT' design/build thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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DIY Speakers and Subs > Scott's Dual RL-p18 'LLT' design/build thread
NEO Dan's Avatar NEO Dan 09:26 PM 06-10-2007
Scott,
I bet you feel better now that your getting into it.

A little motivational pic


Scott Simonian's Avatar Scott Simonian 12:40 PM 06-11-2007
Yes, yes I do! I feel much better now that things are really getting in motion...

Dan, that is a sick lookin' couple of cabs...hehehehe. Those suckers look HUGE! Gotta let me know about how you painted those...

Okay...now that things are REALLY rolling...Ive got a couple of questions.

One for you Dan. I just was looking over the cut sheets and I saw something I wanted to ask you about. On the baffle, the hole for the port is a 8" ID cut. On the back, for the support rings, you wrote 8 3/8" ID for the two rings that will hold the port. I was curious about that. Is it a typo or is it supposed to be that size for a reason? Just curious because I'm gonna be doing all the circle cuts this week, hopefully.

Another question could be for everyone....HANDLES.

Ive wanted, since day-1 of the box design, to incorporate some kind of handle system. They are to simplify the stacking procedure by giving us, the movers, some leverage. The best ones on PE that I could find were these. They looked like they would be the most useful, durable, and comfortable for the minute that we would have to hold these things. Pretty much every single one of my friends are taller than me. Pretty easy when you're only 5'5"... Sooo....I should have at least one friend to help but I think on "Stacking Day" I will try and get at least two or three friends to lift one on top of the other.

Haven't quite figured out the location/orientation of the handles and how durable they would be for this application. I wanted to give leverage to every lifter. I was thinking two vertically running straps per side close to the front and back. So that would be...wow....eight straps per cab. Geez....That would be pretty decent since it would give up to four people great leverage on each corner from the bottom to top.

I'm getting close to having to order these kinds of things so I would like to hear what you guys think.

Also gonna order a pack of "Hurricane Nuts" from PE so I would need the size and I have no idea what size screws to get for them.

Almost forgot! I am going to have to build a "little" dolly for them. I was thinking of a MDF top equal to the size of the bottom of these subs. Put some tough rollers on it and it should be good, right?

Anything else I forget? Heheh...
TheEAR's Avatar TheEAR 08:47 PM 06-11-2007
NeoDan,

Nice job on the boxes,rounding the edges gives a touch of class.I do the same for all my subs,including rounding of the brace openings.

I am about to start two cabinets. Once you start in the DIY worls and like audio...no stopping.
NEO Dan's Avatar NEO Dan 12:16 AM 06-12-2007
Scott,
I'd go 10-32 for the hardware, I'm 90% sure 1/4" is too big. You'll need 2- 10-32 mounting kits, and the matching Hurricane Nuts

The holes are based on the inside and outside diameter of the port tube, normally I would cut the rings and attach them to the inside of the box then apply adhesive to the tube and a lil more on the rings, then insert and align the port tube, let the adhesive setup, then drill a hole in the box where the port hole is supposed to be and use a flush trim bit in the router to finish cutting the hole for the port tube. this method conceals the edge of the tubing and makes for a clean looking install.

The finish is MINWAX Ebony stain, it's the first time i've tried it, the glue lines are a PITA, and somehow I left my Dad's place without the 320 grit sandpaper. This is olny 180 it looks ok but you can still make out the pattern of the DA sander. Oh well, it's gonna get another coat of stain, and then a clear satin topcoat. What do you think of the V groove, I'm thinking I like it alot, another first for me.


Stacking Day:
With the first box already in the corner all you need are a 2' square chunk or some 2" wide strips of MDF on top of the box that is already in place, once you've got the box on top of those you can slide it almost into place before you lift the front of the box and remove the MDF peice/s
Just pick up a regular furniture dolly for moving your boxes into the house. They are like $20 & small, which is good. Wait until you get the box into the livingroom and then mount the woofer, but do it with the box facing up, you'll be much less likely to crossthread a screw.

NO HANDLES, just roll up a decent towel and one guy on each side grabs an end as close to the box as possible, it's like a big rope. This thing should not be thought of as portable, handles will make your friends think it's portable, it's in your best interst to make it a massive PITA to move. MDF scratches and cracks easily when there's approximately 240lbs of static weight involved.

Don't forget the binding post or speakons
NEO Dan's Avatar NEO Dan 08:45 PM 06-12-2007
Bet you've been having dreams like this, LOL


What's the status on the router?
Scott Simonian's Avatar Scott Simonian 03:11 AM 06-13-2007
Quote:


The finish is MINWAX Ebony stain, it's the first time i've tried it, the glue lines are a PITA, and somehow I left my Dad's place without the 320 grit sandpaper. This is olny 180 it looks ok but you can still make out the pattern of the DA sander. Oh well, it's gonna get another coat of stain, and then a clear satin topcoat. What do you think of the V groove, I'm thinking I like it alot, another first for me.

Looks pretty decent, Dan! I'm sure it will look even slicker when you do another pass with some sandpaper. The small grain stuff. I think that is about the shade I will shoot for when I get them all glued together. Not sure yet. Anything I can apply with a roller is cool with me. How did you cut the "V"? Was that all router work?

Quote:


The holes are based on the inside and outside diameter of the port tube, normally I would cut the rings and attach them to the inside of the box then apply adhesive to the tube and a lil more on the rings, then insert and align the port tube, let the adhesive setup, then drill a hole in the box where the port hole is supposed to be and use a flush trim bit in the router to finish cutting the hole for the port tube. this method conceals the edge of the tubing and makes for a clean looking install.

That is a good idea! I wasn't sure how close it would be on the outside for flush mounting but that sounds neater. CAVEAT: With this approach, how will I ever change the port if I am not happy with the preliminary tune? It was a feature I was planning for since day one. There is a chance I may not be happy with the output between 13-25hz area so I may cut the tube down for a higher tune. Most likely, I will not. If the room gain is as or close to the sims you posted....then, well....Looking to tune it @ 11hz ever since you posted the first one that had the "shelf" it it. Looks like a 35 inch tube for that, if I am not mistaken. Get back to me on that one. I will go with your idea most certainly.

Quote:


NO HANDLES, just roll up a decent towel and one guy on each side grabs an end as close to the box as possible, it's like a big rope. This thing should not be thought of as portable, handles will make your friends think it's portable, it's in your best interst to make it a massive PITA to move. MDF scratches and cracks easily when there's approximately 240lbs of static weight involved.

Gotcha. No-go on the handles. I really thought they would be an eyesore but I really wanted to installation to go smoothly...

....and...

Quote:


Stacking Day:
With the first box already in the corner all you need are a 2' square chunk or some 2" wide strips of MDF on top of the box that is already in place, once you've got the box on top of those you can slide it almost into place before you lift the front of the box and remove the MDF peice/s
Just pick up a regular furniture dolly for moving your boxes into the house. They are like $20 & small, which is good. Wait until you get the box into the livingroom and then mount the woofer, but do it with the box facing up, you'll be much less likely to crossthread a screw.

I guess I should have explained my "dolly idea" a little better...

I wanted to have a permanent dolly under the both of them to ease placement and removing it when necessary. I envisioned a dolly that I would sit the first one on in the middle of the room. Friends and I pick up (with much effort, I imagine...) the second and stack it on top of the other which is already on the dolly. Since we are all in the middle of the room there should be plenty more leverage (no-no on the handles...) and I really don't want to hit the corner of the wall with one of these. It will makes things SOOOOOO much easier on all of us if I could just push the two of the them on wheels into the corner instead of trying to lift one of them from only one side and try and get it on there safely and without injuring the woofer... I just sense danger even attempting that. My friends can be a little....erm....clumsy.

If this all sounds like crazy nonsense then please, let me know. I really think the dolly idea would work. Just a little extra MDF is needed. And some good castors. I saw some that were supposedly rated @ >300lbs per wheel. Four of those should more than cover the weight of two of these, right?

Quote:


Don't forget the binding post or speakons

Oh right! Almost forgot....

I was just thinking of getting these for each cab. Sound okay? My problem is that I have no idea where I want the binding posts to go. It would be kinda nice to have a perfectly clean back but then I'd really prefer the cables to be back there. Hidden. I could stomach to have them on the sides, close to the driver. Pretty sure I'd hear something from my dad about how the cables would "hang" off the side running down to the amp. Idk. Not happened yet but its sounds like something he'd complain about. But who am I to say anything, right? I mean, he's gonna put up with this? Haha! I love em'.

Quote:


Bet you've been having dreams like this, LOL

Haha! Yes, actually! My friends and I are always shaking our heads at how big these things are really going to be. We were looking at the cuts for the sides. OMG. All in good fun, though...

Quote:


What's the status on the router?

Nothing new. We have a pretty decent router to use. Some Craftsman professional router. The guide on the circle jig we picked up at lowes has no reference at all as to cut size. You have to measure it on the bottom, tip to tip and guess if its correct. And the smallest hole it can cut is about ~10 inches. Haven't had any time or material to really practice with it. Tomorrow is my half-day so I'll see what can be accomplished in the day. Dunno if I should just go out and buy that jig from PE. I'd have to wait a good week for it but accurate, easy cutting is a wonder for me. The low-skilled woodworker that I am.

*sigh*

Enough typing...effin' late....it's about bedtime.
NEO Dan's Avatar NEO Dan 12:12 PM 06-13-2007
Here's an idea for the corner,


Also shows shows how the router bit is used on the edge


And the router bits, the corner round is 1.25"
I'm gonna get a 1.5" for the next box and set it 1" deep to remove all the glue line, that will work much better.

I've got to go to work
Later
Dan
NEO Dan's Avatar NEO Dan 09:16 PM 06-14-2007
I was just thinking about the dolly, you could buy a couple handy panels of 1/4" masonite to slide it into place. lots cheaper than a dolly.
crackyflipside's Avatar crackyflipside 09:43 PM 06-14-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post

Bet you've been having dreams like this, LOL


What's the status on the router?

That reminds me so much of the portable sub. I love it; overkill is the best.
spudfrog's Avatar spudfrog 10:00 PM 06-14-2007
Where are those huge roundover bits from Dan? I've been looking for bits like that ages. Are the shanks 3/8" or 1/4"?
Scott Simonian's Avatar Scott Simonian 10:42 PM 06-14-2007
Quote:


I was just thinking about the dolly, you could buy a couple handy panels of 1/4" masonite to slide it into place. lots cheaper than a dolly.

I could effortlessly push +500lbs across the carpet with this?
NEO Dan's Avatar NEO Dan 10:46 PM 06-14-2007
spudfrog,
the bits are from rockler woodworking, the 1.5" corner round i'm looking to buy next will be from MCLS, they have better pricing.

They are 1/2" shank, the larger szes usually are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spudfrog View Post

Where are those huge roundover bits from Dan? I've been looking for bits like that ages. Are the shanks 3/8" or 1/4"?


NEO Dan's Avatar NEO Dan 11:05 PM 06-14-2007
Scott,
LOL, no. The masonite won't get the enclosures in your house either. Just trying to save you some dough.

FYI the Stain is about the consistency of water or milk, I used a paint pad sponge type aplicator. Staining is a messy process when your trying to do something this size. The surface prep is a PITA. I don't think i'd try a roller.

I'll work out a port mounting solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

I could effortlessly push +500lbs across the carpet with this?


spudfrog's Avatar spudfrog 11:10 PM 06-14-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post

spudfrog,
the bits are from rockler woodworking, the 1.5" corner round i'm looking to buy next will be from MCLS, they have better pricing.

They are 1/2" shank, the larger szes usually are.

Thanks so much. I had also been searching for shaper bits. :-)

How long does it take the carbide bits to dull with mdf?
NEO Dan's Avatar NEO Dan 11:17 PM 06-14-2007
spudfrog,
IDK, I'm not sure i've ever worn one, except the 1/4" bits when cutting circles. carbide is tough stuff, it lasts a long time as long as you keep it clean and don't put too much heat into it. I do rember how HSS bits used to burn up, carbide is much longer lasting.
Scott Simonian's Avatar Scott Simonian 01:27 AM 06-15-2007
Quote:


FYI the Stain is about the consistency of water or milk, I used a paint pad sponge type aplicator. Staining is a messy process when your trying to do something this size. The surface prep is a PITA. I don't think i'd try a roller.

Heh. I was thinking about going with something like you quad 15's? Is that finish something easier to do? That would look pretty good to me.

Quote:


LOL, no.

Roflz! Alright. I think I'll try out my dolly idea and see if these majafaquers don't come crumbling down. lolz.
NEO Dan's Avatar NEO Dan 09:02 AM 06-17-2007
The finish on the 4-15" box was a lot easier, just seal the end grain and use flat interior wall paint.
Scott Simonian's Avatar Scott Simonian 04:38 PM 06-18-2007
Circle jig and accessories are scheduled to arrive on Wednesday. I will (almost certainly) get the MDF for the second one also on Wednesday. Plan on cutting out the circles from what I've cut so far and maybe just trace over the actual cut sheets so I can match them up without too much time wasted on re-measuring the second batch of MDF. Lagging around since I didnt need to jump into cutting my MDF with this crummy, quasi-jasper jig. I'd rather wait to get a much better one.

All in all I think I've got this all hammered out...other than paint, moving and....ummm the tune. (still shooting for 11hz as the first tune to try....)

What exactly is that paint called that you used, Dan? Iirc, you said it was "latex-based". I don't know a lot about paint so I wasn't sure if that was all I had to ask for. The recessed cutout for the binding posts is brilliant! I can use scrap from all the circles to cut the square....hmmm. Just gotta decide where I want them both. Prolly just in the corner like in your CAD.

Oh...and before I forget to ask...

How much paint should I buy to cover the two of these? I never calculated the external surface area.
NEO Dan's Avatar NEO Dan 07:54 PM 06-19-2007
Scott,
Your looking at 60sq' per box.

I don't recall what specific paint, something from Home Depot, Flat Interior Latex wall paint probably whatever was recommended, as long as it could be tinted SOLID BLACK.

I dunno if I would do it that way again, color wise. I'd look into a flat finish that had an anti-reflective suede or sand texture, in a deep blue gray, or anthracite. Heck I'd color match to the cone

I seriously doubt it can be done with just one coat of paint, YMMV
Scott Simonian's Avatar Scott Simonian 10:43 PM 06-19-2007
Well how many coats will it need? Three perhaps?

I'll do...just don't know how much paint to come home with first.

Idk, I like the way the paint looks in that photo of it. Looks like a flat black. Maybe its the lighting.
NEO Dan's Avatar NEO Dan 10:27 AM 06-21-2007
Scott,
Yep, that's flat black.
You make with the sawdust yet, how are things going?


Later
Dan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

I like the way the paint looks in that photo of it. Looks like a flat black. Maybe its the lighting.


Scott Simonian's Avatar Scott Simonian 11:44 AM 06-21-2007
*ahem*

Got the rest of the wood yesterday....but....I didn't really have much of a chance to work. When I got back from the lumber yard the workers were installing the electrical box for the solar panels we're getting. Sooooo... the power was out for a lil while....by the time it came back on it was really hot outside. My Parts Express package was there, though. Got my jig, binding posts, mounting hardware and I bought myself a wire stripper....about ten years late but I needed one.

If I don't do anything this week then I am really starting on Saturday...its been a busy, busy week. Heh.

EDIT: Thought about doing some work at lunch but we had even more workers over today. The driveway was all filled with work trucks, heh. Sooo...I watched Reno 911:Miami with a 'character commentary' instead....
NEO Dan's Avatar NEO Dan 10:04 AM 06-22-2007
binding posts, mounting hardware, and a stripper on the coutch watching reno 911 with comentary.
That does sound like you had a full day.
Scott Simonian's Avatar Scott Simonian 11:30 AM 06-22-2007
Quote:


That does sound like you had a full day.

Awww....it was hot out and I couldn't use my driveway, anyway.! :P I still need some wood glue since I've only got three small tubes of Liquid Nails...I was told I shouldn't use that. : / I used it for my Tempest, 281's and LCC....but.....I was told not to use Liquid Nails.....Hmmmph!

I don't think the workers will be over this weekend soo I won't have to compete for space in front of the house or get the power turned off...again.
NEO Dan's Avatar NEO Dan 01:25 PM 06-22-2007
Scott,
The olny thing i'd tell you not to use is silicone, It cracks me up to see someone use silicone for adhesive on MDF, what a mess.

Your cuts look clean and smooth. So how you gonna put this thing together with fasteners or clamp it up, that would narrow down the choice on adhesive. I think the quickest method is a combo of clamps and a brad nailer with gorilla glue. Liquid Nails is now available as a polyurethane, that or PL Premium, just don't use too much in the joints.
Scott Simonian's Avatar Scott Simonian 03:39 PM 06-22-2007
I plan on using plenty of glue and claps....and just a tiny bit of nails....only in areas where a routed edge won't be....for example...Ill probably use a nail gun on the side where the braces run along. Maybe in the same areas on top and bottom. I didn't want to use ANY nails on any corners...cause....I may still route all the edges to look a little sleeker.
NEO Dan's Avatar NEO Dan 02:04 PM 06-25-2007
Scott,
how did things go this weekend, lets see some pictures




I received my MLCS order, I got the 1.5" corner round and the smaller furniture makers bit.

NEO Dan's Avatar NEO Dan 10:26 AM 07-03-2007
Scott,
hello, anybody in here????
how are things going?


Later
Dan
Scott Simonian's Avatar Scott Simonian 11:44 AM 07-03-2007
Heeeyyyy Dan!

I had to separate myself from the thread cause nothing was getting done on my end.

Many things were getting in the way. My dad and uncle have been going through the process of installation of solar panels on our houses. That had kept us pretty occupied. That and a busy work week or two just before the holiday. My dad also went out of town last weekend and now he is out of town now. My uncle was sick over the weekend too.

Haven't done anything because I couldn't get my circle jig on the router. It wasn't too hard. I just needed a special flat wrench to get the bit on and off...which I didn't have. Aahhhh....bunch of stuff like that.

Good news is that we got the guide on yesterday and my uncle said, for sure, that he will help me this coming weekend.

That's where things are at this time.
TheEAR's Avatar TheEAR 07:00 PM 07-04-2007
This one large rounding bit,how capable a router to drive this? I havd a 1 3/4 HP Porter Cable. a 2 1/4 HP DeWalt and a 3 1/4 HP Freud(large monster).

The rounding bit is a must for a nice rounded cabinet. As is a router to make all the hole cuts and countersinks.

May buy a fourth router...a Triton to round my router collection...

Once you start building your own cabinets nothing else will do. And quality Baltic birch is as good as it gets to build some near bullet proof cabinets.
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