Measuring Amplifiers - Page 51 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1501 of 1918 Old 02-27-2009, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linearx View Post

all major amp designers including powersoft have at one time or another attempted to explain why their particular amp can or cannot supply the high watt figures continuously. The 4000, 5000, 8000, and 9000, watt output figures are short duration numbers and many times will be specified at only certain frequencies (1khz). But the amps many times do what they advertise but only under manufacturers lab conditions.
Chasw98 opened this thread with his amp testing methodology and specialized equipment. The tests he's performed have been extremely useful and have been responsible for creating reams of discussion and have opened eyes as to amp performance. It's really been good stuff.

+1!

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post #1502 of 1918 Old 03-12-2009, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

+1!

++1

Chasw98 doing all the testing for us has been huge help to everyone on this Forum. There has been many amps I have thought about buying and I am glad a few of them I did not.

Just purchased an O Audio amp for a subwoofer in my living room (music), if it is as close to what everyone says I may buy 2 more for the HT.

Thanks Chasw98 for everything.
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post #1503 of 1918 Old 03-12-2009, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BKEW View Post

Thanks Chasw98 for everything.

Everyone send Chuck $20 through paypal

We should also thank all the members that sent Chuck their amps. Those members spent money in helping validate amp specs!!

It is not "open-minded" to reject knowledge - Bob Lee
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post #1504 of 1918 Old 03-12-2009, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Everyone send Chuck $20 through paypal

We should also thank all the members that sent Chuck their amps. Those members spent money in helping validate amp specs!!

well, he could always set up his own site with some google syndication ads.

then, we could all visit his site frequently in order to check on amp measurements.

since his site would be focused on amplifiers, which is a buyer's type site, clickthrough would probably be good too. good for google. good for chuck.

just a random thought.

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post #1505 of 1918 Old 03-30-2009, 06:13 AM
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Anyone using the PL380s?

Wonder how they'd test out?

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #1506 of 1918 Old 03-30-2009, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

Anyone using the PL380s?

Wonder how they'd test out?

YES I have two QSC PL380's,a mighty amp capable of driving the likes of REE XXX,TC 5400/Ultra and Acoupower to where the drivers will go thermal before the amp runns out of steam.

These amps need a dedeicated line, 30AMPS and the plug is not for show.

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #1507 of 1918 Old 03-30-2009, 10:09 AM
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Any word on the EP4000?

Haven't heard a peep about that one in while.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz ***FOR SALE***

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post #1508 of 1918 Old 03-30-2009, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEAR View Post

YES I have two QSC PL380's,a mighty amp capable of driving the likes of REE XXX,TC 5400/Ultra and Acoupower to where the drivers will go thermal before the amp runns out of steam.

Have you used the CE4000s in this same setup?

If so, would you say two PL380s (2,500wpc @ 4 ohms) would be less than, comparable to, or better than four bridged CE4000s (2,800w @ 4 ohms) driving the same setup?

Certainly the form factor of two PL380s is better (unless one likes a big stack of somewhat ugly amps), but in terms of powering subs??

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #1509 of 1918 Old 03-30-2009, 02:23 PM
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Buying an older discontinued amp can have it's advantages and disadvantages, the cost per output is definately a plus, but an item damaged in shipping can negate that.

Of course, a new amp can also be damaged in shipping, but with the proper shipping box from the factory, less likely to arrive damaged, than someone throwing an amp in a box with some foamy peanuts. There are 'tards' out there that will do this.

Buying from a reputable pro-audio dealer can often be your best bet, regardless if you are buying used or new. They can test an item, rather than some that declare it powers up, and no means of testing... like a pig in a poke.

Dealing with insurance and shipping on a broken item is not my forte. I would rather pay more for new or at least a current model that ships in it's proper carton.

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post #1510 of 1918 Old 03-30-2009, 04:05 PM
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I already have the CE4000s; two though, not four.

Merely curious if one PL380 would replace them essentially on par, as an improvement, or not.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #1511 of 1918 Old 03-30-2009, 07:37 PM
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I'm curious what my Yamaha M-60 and M-70 would test like.
More interested in if the amp really switches to class A/B above 20 watts.
Putting such amps under that much stress at this age probably isn't a good idea lol.

Only time will tell what the future holds...so until then JAM LIKE THERES NO TOMORROW!
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post #1512 of 1918 Old 03-30-2009, 08:28 PM
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I wouldn't do it with my M-80s and M-40s. They're worth much more in working order...

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #1513 of 1918 Old 03-30-2009, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

Certainly the form factor of two PL380s is better (unless one likes a big stack of somewhat ugly amps), but in terms of powering subs??

That's my main gripe with the CE4000 is that it is UGLY. I mean bright red? Seriously?. I also think that they could've packaged it in a 2 instead of 3 rack space chassis...It is still a good amp though.
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post #1514 of 1918 Old 03-31-2009, 06:07 AM
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I am also in the line might be the third or fourth for Buttkicker amp request.

Chuck, when you replicate those manufacturer power ratings, do you test how much further it will go?

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post #1515 of 1918 Old 03-31-2009, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amidcars View Post

I am also in the line might be the third or fourth for Buttkicker amp request.

He already tested the Buttkicker amp. Check the first page.
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post #1516 of 1918 Old 03-31-2009, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

Have you used the CE4000s in this same setup?

If so, would you say two PL380s (2,500wpc @ 4 ohms) would be less than, comparable to, or better than four bridged CE4000s (2,800w @ 4 ohms) driving the same setup?

Certainly the form factor of two PL380s is better (unless one likes a big stack of somewhat ugly amps), but in terms of powering subs??

The PL380 has enough reserve to not become the weakest link, I do not own the CE4000.If these were sold new I would have them,but being discontinued...tough luck for me.

The few similar(power output wise and price) are the Crown iTech6000/8000,these you have on top a DSP. The new "MacroTech" are what the iTech is minus the DSP.

Space to power it is hard to beat the PL380,sure you have a few amps from two Euro companies.These are a bit too high tech and if a problem arises,not easy to fix.

I prefer to stick with something that can be serviced locally.In this case upscale QSC and Crown.

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #1517 of 1918 Old 04-05-2009, 08:48 PM
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A few more rmx 5050 numbers for my two newer units with 120v only transformers.. 74v at 200 hz for 2607 w into 2.1 ohm and 69 v at 20 hz into 2.1 ohm for 2267 w line voltage at 116 volt during test.. shame on qsc for losing the universal transformers, but their replacements perform slightly better than their predicessors Also quick tested an adcom 565 mono at 880 w at 200 hz and 840 w at 20 hz into 2.1 ohms, this amp will do this sine wave all day long!!! Also of intrest ... Klipch's $1500 ka 1000 subwoofer amp appears to contain the same amp board and transformer as the earlier 1000/4 (not 4a) buttkicker amp.... and they claim 3000 dymamic watts!! (i own and have tested both versions of the buttkicker amp and results are similar to those posted earlier in this thread, with the earlier version beating the later version by a small amount) the sound quality on a sub is better than your leftover reciever's amp, but any ebay adcom 555 or behringer will offer more control of your speaker
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post #1518 of 1918 Old 04-06-2009, 12:59 AM
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Are we ever gonna see the american audio v5001 results?
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post #1519 of 1918 Old 04-06-2009, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anidabi View Post

Are we ever gonna see the american audio v5001 results?

Don't know.

In case some people haven't noticed. Chuck has not posted in this thread, or in this forum section in months. I wouldn't hold your breath for more tests any time soon.
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post #1520 of 1918 Old 04-06-2009, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEAR View Post

The PL380 has enough reserve to not become the weakest link, I do not own the CE4000.If these were sold new I would have them,but being discontinued...tough luck for me.

.

If your are really looking for a CE4k new check there http://www.acclaim-music.com/live/pr...&cat=70&page=1 they still advertise them new at 2500$ Canadian never know you could probably add couple amps to your arsenal. Acclaim is located in Ontario cheer sub mad man

Warning to prevent risk of injuries, you should always be smarter than the equipment you are about to use.
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post #1521 of 1918 Old 06-08-2009, 05:01 PM
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Has anyone tested how much the A500 uses when it is not getting any signal? Or tested how the LED lights on the front relate to the output? Meaning when the red LED's light up does that mean the 380 watts are being output?
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post #1522 of 1918 Old 06-08-2009, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chood View Post

Has anyone tested how much the A500 uses when it is not getting any signal?

Read the owner's manual, that info should be in the specs
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Meaning when the red LED's light up does that mean the 380 watts are being output?

That means turn down the amp it's clipping.
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post #1523 of 1918 Old 06-09-2009, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by NoBS View Post

Read the owner's manual, that info should be in the specs
That means turn down the amp it's clipping.

I am curious how much it is clipping. My subwoofer does not mind 1% as much as some expensive tweeters might
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post #1524 of 1918 Old 06-09-2009, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chood View Post

I am curious how much it is clipping. My subwoofer does not mind 1% as much as some expensive tweeters might

Takes some expensive test equipment to check this.

Understand, if it clips hard enough the amp can dump DC, if that happens it will destroy any driver including a sub.

So you might want to turn it down.
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post #1525 of 1918 Old 06-09-2009, 11:20 PM
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"if it clips hard enough the amp can dump DC"

Clipping has DC by definition - the flat top and bottom of the waveform

Noah
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post #1526 of 1918 Old 06-10-2009, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"if it clips hard enough the amp can dump DC"

Clipping has DC by definition - the flat top and bottom of the waveform

But don't we typically call that a square wave?

YID DIY
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post #1527 of 1918 Old 06-10-2009, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Clipping has DC by definition - the flat top and bottom of the waveform

No sh*t Sherlock... thing is low level clipping doesn't kill a subwoofer.

Now perhaps you can do something constructive like helping the guy who posted the question...
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post #1528 of 1918 Old 06-10-2009, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"if it clips hard enough the amp can dump DC"

Clipping has DC by definition - the flat top and bottom of the waveform

Sorry, no. Especially not by definition. A symmetrically-clipped zero-mean sine wave would still have zero DC component. DC is more like waveform offset from zero-mean.
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post #1529 of 1918 Old 06-10-2009, 03:14 PM
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"Especially not by definition."

Right, not by definition; "intrinsically contains DC" would be better.

"A symmetrically-clipped zero-mean sine wave would still have zero DC component. DC is more like waveform offset from zero-mean."

On average, but the flat tops and bottoms are DC.

Noah
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post #1530 of 1918 Old 06-15-2009, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"Especially not by definition."

Right, not by definition; "intrinsically contains DC" would be better.

"A symmetrically-clipped zero-mean sine wave would still have zero DC component. DC is more like waveform offset from zero-mean."

On average, but the flat tops and bottoms are DC.

The flat tops and bottoms are most emphatically not DC. If you want to get down to it, nothing in the known universe is DC. That would take infinite time.

But even practically, flat tops and bottoms are not DC. How long do the flat tops/bottoms last in time? What's the reciprocal of that time? Square waves can be (are?) created by the sum of a bunch of zero-mean sine waves. And the lowest necessary frequency is the fundamental.

Basically, a flat line that lasts a short period of time has nothing much to do with having a DC component, other than a passing resemblance to a DC voltage. And yet even 0VDC is commonly referred to as not having a DC component.

On the other hand, if you take a sine wave and add second-harmonic distortion, you get a DC component, even if there are no truly flat tops or bottoms. Mathematically and practically.
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