Measuring Amplifiers - Page 63 - AVS Forum
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post #1861 of 1917 Old 02-29-2012, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

Hopefully I didn't miss something earlier on, but sounds to me like it might be an issue with intolerance to AC line sag, not necessarily something going on with protect from hard use, per se.

we have very high a/c voltage where I live. It's usually between 121 and 126according to my power filter.

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post #1862 of 1917 Old 03-01-2012, 10:40 AM
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And it remained that high when the problem happened?

Does the meter respond quickly enough to peaks/dips that may be considerably greater/less than the averaged/slow-weighted response typical of most power meters?

Only laying that out because I've seen other reports of different brand of SMPS-type amps shutting off due to line sag.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #1863 of 1917 Old 03-02-2012, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINEARX View Post

`
Sorry Arnyk with the forced air cooled resistor bank and all that testing equipment, YOU have just become the AVS defacto "AMP TESTER" for AVS.
We need your address to send our amps for testing like Chasw98 did.
In addition to the testing protocol and the charts Chasw98 produced, we need pictures of each amp being tested and pictures of the equipment readouts during testing and under load.
`When can you start?
Which amp do you want to test first?
The following is a list of amps AVS members want tested:
`
1) FP14000 China Clone
2) Peavey IPR 3000 DSP
3) Peavey IPR 6000 DSP
4) Behringer EPX 4000
5) Bryston any
6) Crown ITech 8000
7) Behringer Inuke NU3000DSP
8) Yamaha P7000SP
9) Crown Macro Tech 5000 i
10) Powersoft K10, K20
`
We have AVS members anxious and ready to go.
We might be able to arrange a small stipend to defray your costs of electricity. Let us know what kind of cost you incur.

Don't recall seeing a test here of the CE4000. Even though it's a pipsqueak by some standards since I have three I wouldn't mind seeing a test.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #1864 of 1917 Old 04-23-2012, 05:44 AM
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Hi

I was wondering if any of you have an opinion on RAM Audio amps and Synq amps - comparing them with the likes of Crown, QSC, etc.

They don't seem to be very common amps but looking at the spec sheet (me = don't really know too much about it) they seem pretty good.

Any advice, suggestions, comments etc would be much appreciated.

I am looking specifically the RAM S6044 amp and the Synq Digit 3K6 amp if this helps.

Thanks
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post #1865 of 1917 Old 04-23-2012, 05:08 PM
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I have no personal experience with either amp and have not seen them discussed here on the forum.
Looking at their performance data, they look like equivalents to Behringer amps or Peavey in terms of performance. Price seems higher. Fans may be more suited to professional use rather than Home Theater. They are probably loud fans.
They do look cool.
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post #1866 of 1917 Old 04-26-2012, 08:28 AM
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Hi Linearx

Thanks for the response - I was hoping they would be a lot better than the Behringer and Peavey amps because the prices are quite a bit higher. the best prices I can find here on those amps are:
RAM S6044 - usd2949 (roughly converting the price here into US Dollars)

Synq 3K6 - usd1154 (roughly converting the price here into US Dollars) - keeping in mind I will need 2 of them

Rough comparison on prices - a Behringer EP4000 goes for about usd462 (using the sale formula as the above calcs)

I am also looking at the FP10000Q clone amp, I don't suppose there are any definitive test done on it yet?

And as far as I know the Peavey IPR 7500 DSP has not been released yet - just waiting on this one as well. From what I've seen the iNuke 6000 only puts out about 500w per channel at 8 ohms - I might be mistaken, I did read the forum a while ago.

Thanks for all the input
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post #1867 of 1917 Old 04-26-2012, 09:23 AM
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The "Clone" amps have NOT been tested by DIY yet as far as I know. There ARE quite a few members here and other sites who have purchased the clones. Most of the clone amps have been trouble free but not all.
The performance of the clones has been rated as spectacular in terms of power and audio quality. The purchase and delivery of the clones has been surprisingly fast and the amps arrive in good shape. Fan noise is an issue. Factory service is a question mark. There ARE no factory repair shops in the USA.
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post #1868 of 1917 Old 04-27-2012, 12:32 AM
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So for the price the clone amp is probably the best amp to get, excluding the repairs issues and fan noise?

If the performance and quality of the amp is good what would your opinion be on purchasing speakers from Sanway?
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post #1869 of 1917 Old 04-27-2012, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptclark View Post

So for the price the clone amp is probably the best amp to get, excluding the repairs issues and fan noise?

If you need an amp of that power class and if you can tolerate the risk, probably yes.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
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post #1870 of 1917 Old 04-27-2012, 06:23 AM
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Gauging by (dollar per watt) there is no better amplifier deal that I've found.
`
Sanway and a bunch of other Chinese factories make probably 70% of all speaker parts and probably 50% of all speakers. The speakers are packaged and labeled or in many cases assembled by and for American speaker manufacturers.
The problem with buying Sanway or any of the other Chinese speakers is that in most advertising I don't see any T/S parameters listed and when they do list SOME T/S parameters, you don't know how accurate the stats are.
The prices are cheap of course, and the finished products look good. Most of what I've seen are made for the professional side of the business. I haven't yet heard from any DIYers who have bought them.
The Chinese have cloned many of the speaker products originally designed and built in the West. How well do their speaker clones perform against the original, I don't know.
I haven't seen a Chinese clone of an LMS 5400.
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post #1871 of 1917 Old 04-27-2012, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINEARX View Post

I haven't seen a Chinese clone of an LMS 5400.

Perhaps a subtle hint is long overdue
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post #1872 of 1917 Old 04-27-2012, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04FLHRCI View Post

Perhaps a subtle hint is long overdue

`
LOL, I don't know if we wanna go there.
On the other hand, it may be that some LMS 5400 parts of (the Ultras) ARE made in China.
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post #1873 of 1917 Old 04-27-2012, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINEARX View Post

`
LOL, I don't know if we wanna go there.
On the other hand, it may be that some LMS 5400 parts of (the Ultras) ARE made in China.

Actually I think all the parts of the LMS are made in China or at least a large percentage.

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post #1874 of 1917 Old 04-27-2012, 09:26 AM
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I would like to see actually tests of the clone amps performed and there failure with 2 ohm stereo and 4 ohm mono loads is disturbing.

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post #1875 of 1917 Old 04-27-2012, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

I would like to see actually tests of the clone amps performed and there failure with 2 ohm stereo and 4 ohm mono loads is disturbing.

`
We didn't know how good we had it when chasW98 was doing amp testing for us.
As I understand it, the FP14000 amps are good down to 2.7 ohm loads @ 44000 watts per channel and 14,000 watts bridged at 4 ohms according to the Sanway advertising spec sheet. Of course, to deliver this kind of power requires more than just a 15 amp 120 volt circuit. The "normal" 120V 15 amp circuits we're used to ain't gonna cut it. However, under "reasonable" loads ie: less than those ear splitting, hair removing, skin dimpling SPLs, the amp can supply those huge peaks of loud volumes we DIYers love.
For those of you curious about more FP14000 details read from "notnyt's" threads if you haven't already. He's got most of what you'll need about the clones and how to getem.
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post #1876 of 1917 Old 04-27-2012, 10:18 AM
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I read that you don't want to go lower than 5.6 ohms bridged with the clone amps. I am going to try and find were I read that at.

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post #1877 of 1917 Old 04-27-2012, 10:21 AM
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Here is what I found about the clone:

4ohm bridged is a no no. 2.7ohm stereo, or 5.4ohm bridged is the lowest impedence you should run them with.

Will the amp just go into protect mode? Or will it royally eff something up if you push it down that low?
The latter, those who have tried so far have lost their amp. Repairs im sure could be done, but it fries em pretty quick :/

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post #1878 of 1917 Old 04-27-2012, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptclark View Post

So for the price the clone amp is probably the best amp to get, excluding the repairs issues and fan noise?

If the performance and quality of the amp is good what would your opinion be on purchasing speakers from Sanway?

fan noise is really a non issue as well, if you request the sunon fans they will put them in for you. The second set of fans would have to be a DIY effort, but honestly I have my amp sitting 3 feet away from my MLP at ear height, and it is just fine with the exception of some quiet scenes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

Here is what I found about the clone:

4ohm bridged is a no no. 2.7ohm stereo, or 5.4ohm bridged is the lowest impedence you should run them with.

Will the amp just go into protect mode? Or will it royally eff something up if you push it down that low?
The latter, those who have tried so far have lost their amp. Repairs im sure could be done, but it fries em pretty quick :/

even at 4 ohm stereo or 8 ohm bridged, the price per watt on these is unparalleled. ive run my fp14k HARD at 4ohm stereo since ive gotten it and it chugs right along

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post #1879 of 1917 Old 04-27-2012, 11:12 AM
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Beast, you let us know IF and when things go wrong.
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post #1880 of 1917 Old 04-27-2012, 11:18 AM
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I will probably break down one day and buy a FP14K but since I have a ton of amps already I figured I could wait until there are enough out there to see if problems develop. I know someone with a clone already so when I get some free time I will compare it to my Face Audio F1600TX and F1150TX. Both Face amps are stable down to 1.6 ohms stereo and bettered a QSC PL9 and RMX5050 in my system when I had a pair of sealed LMS Ultra's.

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post #1881 of 1917 Old 04-27-2012, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINEARX View Post

Beast, you let us know IF and when things go wrong.

I dont forsee any problems with how I am running it. I do seem to not be getting as much out of the amp as others have. With that said, I have some serious EQ issues to shore up before I can make some final calls on the amp. All i know is this thing pumps out some serious wattage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjaudio View Post

I will probably break down one day and buy a FP14K but since I have a ton of amps already I figured I could wait until there are enough out there to see if problems develop. I know someone with a clone already so when I get some free time I will compare it to my Face Audio F1600TX and F1150TX. Both Face amps are stable down to 1.6 ohms stereo and bettered a QSC PL9 and RMX5050 in my system when I had a pair of sealed LMS Ultra's.

I sat on the fence for 5 months. Once I jumped for one, it was honestly the easiest purchase ive made, and the box showed up in better shape than anything else thus far. FROM CHINA!

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #1882 of 1917 Old 05-07-2012, 10:22 AM
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Seriously - the packaging for the FP14K is very awesome. I think they used 3 rolls of packing tape on the box that I got.
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post #1883 of 1917 Old 09-09-2012, 06:16 PM
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ok you guys have me interested in a Sanway amp now. I have zero need for that monster fp14k but maybe the fp7k or the fp3400. If the fp3400 really does 1500watts rms@4 ohm stereo that would certainly be enough for me. Lots of head room from where i will be starting at. Only looking to start with a single 18" sub. That thing will provide enough power for 4 of the subs i am looking at. They are only 600 watt rms on the subs. But if the model was correct 4 of them would be like 126db at 20hz. i think thats more than enough for the 12x12 room i might end up moving this stuff into.
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post #1884 of 1917 Old 10-02-2012, 09:12 PM
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This is far from scientific, but I just returned an iNuke3000.

I had an Acurus A200x3 amp and I could turn my receiver up to 0 from -35 without clipping.

The iNuke was clipping at -12

The Behringer EP4000 I hooked up 30 mins after with no adjustments from any of the three amps was barely flickering the power indicator at -12 and at zero it was at
1/2 power indicator lights lit.

I'm guessing for continous power output the Behringer EP 4000 is 3 times more powerful than the iNuke3000....as a side note the EP4000 sounds more "full and rich" the iNuke sounded sharp and lifeless.

I was going to buy the iNuke6000 but it was out of stock and I said F it and just went with the old reliable.

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post #1885 of 1917 Old 10-02-2012, 09:19 PM
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^^ Indicators don't accurately display level and as various amplifiers have different gains, comparing them like this gives no accurate indication of actual power output.
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post #1886 of 1917 Old 10-04-2012, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

^^ Indicators don't accurately display level and as various amplifiers have different gains, comparing them like this gives no accurate indication of actual power output.

Except I did run my ARC setup to equalize gain on each amp, which I never mentioned. I just left the volume on the two behringers at maximum and thats what I meant by no adjustments to each amp.

The iNuke was constant red, it might not be 100% accurate as you say but with the clipping lights on completely it must be close to max or at maximum output.

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post #1887 of 1917 Old 10-30-2012, 07:22 AM
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First of all, great freakin' thread! I am learning so much about amp electronics it's not funny...I love AVS.

 

Can anyone comment on the Dayton SPA1000, now? It is being hailed on PE.com as "newly redesigned"...I had the SPA500 pushing an Epic 12 and first thing I noticed was clipping started really early @ 30hz and below, like say with gain barely @ 1/3rd and sub output on AVR at -6db...based upon the measurements taken of that 1000w rack amp a few years back on this thread, it means my SPA500 was probably only pushing 250-300 watts @ 20hz, right? So the 1000 (which is what, same amp as SPA500 minus some power regulation circuitry and a bigger heat sink?) should get me where I need to be, at about 600?

 

In any event, since I have a DIY box with the cutout for a Dayton plate amp, the SPA1000 went on sale for the same price I paid for the 500, so I'm swapping them out...hopefully I'll hear a difference, although I was hitting 130db+, at the driver, on a 50hz sine wave with the SPA500 and over 114db @ 18hz in a 3.4cu ft sealed box...will be interesting to see what the difference is, if any (although on paper twice the power gets a 3db gain right?).

 

Can anyone say what they have changed in the Dayton plate amps since this infamous test?


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post #1888 of 1917 Old 01-21-2013, 10:43 PM
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Chas w 98 tested the Dayton amp. The results are posted. His tests show it to be a limited amp with max output of 451watts at 40Hz, less at 20 and even less at 10Hz.
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post #1889 of 1917 Old 01-22-2013, 08:25 AM
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Those results are on the original, the design has changed twice since then.
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post #1890 of 1917 Old 01-22-2013, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garric33 View Post

Seriously - the packaging for the FP14K is very awesome. I think they used 3 rolls of packing tape on the box that I got.

The thread on this seems to show that this has changed and the packaging has gone down the tubes
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