First time build, single-driver bookshelfs - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 07-07-2007, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I finally finished off my HT last Monday with a pair of Paradigm ADP-590s, and it gave me the bug... I NEED MORE!

My plan is to build an IB in the crawlspace, but we'll be adding on to that room soon, so can't do it now. I figured, hey, why not get my feet wet and build a couple bookshelf speakers for a 2.1 system in the other room?

After reading through this forum, as well as a few others, I think I have it figured out. I decided on a driver, the Tang Band W4-656SC 4" Shielded Driver, a ported box, and I installed WinISD to help with the design. After some tweaking, I came up with a box with the following dimentions:

Volume 5.2 l
Tuning 63.96 Hz
Height 10.16 in
Width 6.93 in
Depth 8.31 in
Port Diameter 1.5 in
Port Length 5.12 in

Built with 3/4" MDF, glued together. Here are a couple screenshots from WinISD:








I know I'm missing plenty, and there are probably a few more tweaks I need to make. I'll be powering them with a Marantz SR-4600 80w per channel, and matching them with a Mirage BPS-150 subwoofer for now. I'd like to set the crossover frequency for the sub pretty low, 80-100 Hz, but I know plans change! I'd like the results to come out something like this
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...-speakers.html

Any advice, comments, or questions are welcome!

Ben
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post #2 of 30 Old 07-07-2007, 12:59 PM
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Here is another good driver choice for full range use. http://www.vikash.info/audio/FR125S/index.asp
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post #3 of 30 Old 07-07-2007, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Those do look nice as well... did some quick research and people seem to like them quite a bit.
For the first project though, I'm going a bit more "budget". If I like how it turns out, I may build a pair of small line arrays using something like the FR125S, and give the Tang Bands to my little brother.

Ben
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post #4 of 30 Old 07-07-2007, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Another question - do I have to take interior dampening foam/insulation into account when I run these calculations?
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post #5 of 30 Old 07-07-2007, 02:11 PM
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if you want budget check out this design by zaph, only $19 a speaker
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker18.html
if you dont want that cheap then the design you have know looks pretty good for a single driver.
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post #6 of 30 Old 07-07-2007, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Those look a lot like my #2 choice for the driver
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=297-429

I just think they look cool but didn't quite have the freq. response of the driver I chose. I didn't see a dealer for the Tang Band W3-871, but I just browsed quickly. I did see the Hi-Vi B3S out at Amazon, though. Would there be a reason to go with a 3" driver with a shorter frequency range, rather than the 4"?

I really like that page you recommended! I really want to try to do it all from scratch, my own design and all, but it looks like there's quite a bit to learn from his build.
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post #7 of 30 Old 07-07-2007, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blk_addr View Post

Those look a lot like my #2 choice for the driver
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=297-429

I think that 4" Hi-Vi might roll off too low for single driver use.

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Originally Posted by blk_addr View Post

Would there be a reason to go with a 3" driver with a shorter frequency range, rather than the 4"?

Better off-axis response at the high end and better high end response in general. Don't put too much faith in the stated "frequency range" as you don't always know how they are evaluating it. Instead look at manufactuer's data, other's test data and your own test data.

As a rule of thumb I think 3" works better with a sub, 4" by themselves. It largely depends on which drivers though.
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post #8 of 30 Old 07-07-2007, 05:44 PM
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That TB W4-656SC cone breakup is going to tear your ears off. And the response after that drops off.

I second the suggestion of the CSS FR125. Other good ones are one of the small Jordans and the TangBand W4-1337 with some shaping of the high end response. The HiVi B3S is popular but personally I think the cone breakup is a bit audible. Considering the price and simplicity this may be acceptable though. Another candidate is this Aura NS3-194 http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...d2ffc499a42d6a
I'm using a set of these to build a very small HT setup for mom. Can't complain about the price either. I'll be using that little 6" TangBand subwoofer with it too.
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post #9 of 30 Old 07-07-2007, 05:48 PM
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And the HiVi B4N is merely a woofer, it's not fullrange.
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post #10 of 30 Old 07-07-2007, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomieMCT View Post

Better off-axis response at the high end and better high end response in general. Don't put too much faith in the stated "frequency range" as you don't always know how they are evaluating it. Instead look at manufactuer's data, other's test data and your own test data.

As a rule of thumb I think 3" works better with a sub, 4" by themselves. It largely depends on which drivers though.


OK, so let me modify my parameters. The responses aren't generating the expected response - they're really generating something better.

The pair of speakers I build will be temporary (moreso than I thought) - I just want to build something cheap and get my feet wet. If I make a change in the driver, I want the price to be less than twice cost.

My next project will be something to replace these, something more expensive and advanced (crossover or small array maybe?). These will be mounted out on our patio, and I'd like to build a pair of outdoor speakers to replace them out there.

I'm only in a hurry because I'm exited to try this -- I can be patient enough to change everything though, if it can be done better. So please, respond however you'd like - if I don't use it in this build, I'll probably use it in another!

As far as my modeling in WinISD, did I do this right? I've mainly gone off what I found here, and I think I'm pretty close.

Ben
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post #11 of 30 Old 07-07-2007, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro View Post

That TB W4-656SC cone breakup is going to tear your ears off. And the response after that drops off.

I second the suggestion of the CSS FR125. Other good ones are one of the small Jordans and the TangBand W4-1337 with some shaping of the high end response. The HiVi B3S is popular but personally I think the cone breakup is a bit audible. Considering the price and simplicity this may be acceptable though. Another candidate is this Aura NS3-194 http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...d2ffc499a42d6a
I'm using a set of these to build a very small HT setup for mom. Can't complain about the price either. I'll be using that little 6" TangBand subwoofer with it too.


I can go with a 3" speaker just fine, but if I remove the subwoofer, it seems like it would lack ANY midrange. A cheap 3" DIY job is what inspired me, don't get me wrong - and after a couple builds I'd like to build a 5.1 system for my fater-in-law with 3"ers and a pair of 10 or 12" DIY sealed subs.

I'd like to end up with a pair of speakers that sound good enough to give away to someone with some Sony bookshelf system, and have them say "wow, those sound pretty good"... so I don't have a pair of speakers sitting around that I don't use and noone would want.

Speaking of which, what do other DIYers do with speakers that they've built, then outgrown?

Ben
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post #12 of 30 Old 07-07-2007, 07:56 PM
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So you don't want to use a sub? If that's the case one of the 4" would be a better choice like the TB W4-1337 or CSS FR125.
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post #13 of 30 Old 07-08-2007, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I'd like to have the option of removing the sub, so I'll stick with a 4" driver.

Can anyone tell me if I did the WinISD modeling correctly?
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post #14 of 30 Old 07-08-2007, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blk_addr View Post

Speaking of which, what do other DIYers do with speakers that they've built, then outgrown?

Hide them from my wife .

Seriously though, some I take apart to reuse the parts. Most go to friends and family. Even with all that I still have five sets of speakers and two subs in my office.
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post #15 of 30 Old 07-08-2007, 12:13 PM
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If you can, I'd recommend waiting for Zaph to design his value mini-monitor.

http://www.zaphaudio.com/blog.html

Quote:


New Systems...
It might be a good time to mention that I have systems underway with the MCM 55-1853 and the Seas ER18RNX. The 55-1853 will be paired with the $9 Aura NT1 3/4" tweeter and will be a high value replacement for the Audax Mini on this web site.

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post #16 of 30 Old 07-08-2007, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willd View Post

If you can, I'd recommend waiting for Zaph to design his value mini-monitor.

http://www.zaphaudio.com/blog.html

His plans for a 2way using the SEAS ER18 and SEAS tweet looks interesting.I hope he does finish this design.
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post #17 of 30 Old 07-09-2007, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willd View Post

If you can, I'd recommend waiting for Zaph to design his value mini-monitor.

http://www.zaphaudio.com/blog.html

I'm not sure if I want to mess with a crossover yet. For my next project I may do a multi-speaker box, but I'll probably stay simple with a small sealed SW-12A with a 500W BASH amp . Guess I'll just have to see what the future holds
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post #18 of 30 Old 07-09-2007, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blk_addr View Post

I'm not sure if I want to mess with a crossover yet. For my next project I may do a multi-speaker box, but I'll probably stay simple with a small sealed SW-12A with a 500W BASH amp . Guess I'll just have to see what the future holds

How are you liking that SW-12? Do you have it PR or ported? I've never worked with one but I've always been curious about them. Is the 500W BASH too much power for it? I thought they normally took 250 watts or so.
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post #19 of 30 Old 07-09-2007, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BoomieMCT View Post

How are you liking that SW-12? Do you have it PR or ported? I've never worked with one but I've always been curious about them. Is the 500W BASH too much power for it? I thought they normally took 250 watts or so.

Sorry if I didn't state that well... the SW-12 has the possibility of being my next project. This little bookshelf guy will be my first

I couldn't find may people who have used it, but it modeled pretty decent compared to other drivers in its price range. I'm ordering the amp now, and the driver once I'm done with this project ready to start the next (that way I can change my mind later). I'm using the 500W amp just for versatility, and so I know I'll never run out of power.
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post #20 of 30 Old 07-09-2007, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blk_addr View Post

Sorry if I didn't state that well... the SW-12 has the possibility of being my next project. This little bookshelf guy will be my first

I couldn't find may people who have used it, but it modeled pretty decent compared to other drivers in its price range. I'm ordering the amp now, and the driver once I'm done with this project ready to start the next (that way I can change my mind later). I'm using the 500W amp just for versatility, and so I know I'll never run out of power.

GR-Research stuff tends to be pretty solid. With the 500W BASH don't forget you may have to swap some pre-amp resistors around. The stock setting rolls off pretty high (30Hz I think).
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post #21 of 30 Old 07-09-2007, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blk_addr View Post

I'm not sure if I want to mess with a crossover yet. For my next project I may do a multi-speaker box, but I'll probably stay simple with a small sealed SW-12A with a 500W BASH amp . Guess I'll just have to see what the future holds

Why not? You need to get your feet wet sometime, and building a simple xover is really easy.
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post #22 of 30 Old 07-09-2007, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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GR-Research stuff tends to be pretty solid. With the 500W BASH don't forget you may have to swap some pre-amp resistors around. The stock setting rolls off pretty high (30Hz I think).

Thanks for the heads up... I hadn't seen that until now.

Have you used GR-Research drivers at all?
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post #23 of 30 Old 07-09-2007, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Why not? You need to get your feet wet sometime, and building a simple xover is really easy.

Well, I've seen the preset xovers for sale but didn't want to mess with those. A lot of the posts I've read about homemade xovers is that you're constantly adjusting them and it's difficult to get them right, so I figured I'd leave it out of the equation for now. I hope it's easy, because I'll be building one sooner than later!

Ben
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post #24 of 30 Old 07-09-2007, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
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Well, I've seen the preset xovers for sale but didn't want to mess with those. A lot of the posts I've read about homemade xovers is that you're constantly adjusting them and it's difficult to get them right, so I figured I'd leave it out of the equation for now. I hope it's easy, because I'll be building one sooner than later!

Ben

If you accept that you aren't going to get it just right on the first try and are willing to experiment a bit then building a crossover isn't hard - it's fun! I suggest buying some extra parts of different values to help you experiment a bit. Even one-way speakers often need notch filters or BSC circuits.
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post #25 of 30 Old 07-09-2007, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blk_addr View Post

Well, I've seen the preset xovers for sale but didn't want to mess with those. A lot of the posts I've read about homemade xovers is that you're constantly adjusting them and it's difficult to get them right, so I figured I'd leave it out of the equation for now. I hope it's easy, because I'll be building one sooner than later!

Ben

Well there are two things here: designing a xover, and building from a proven design.

I was referring to the latter. Designing a xover is a whole 'nother ballgame. But simply following a schematic and soldering a handful of components together is far from difficult. There is no adjusting or "getting them right", just following the schematic.

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post #26 of 30 Old 07-09-2007, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoomieMCT View Post

If you accept that you aren't going to get it just right on the first try and are willing to experiment a bit then building a crossover isn't hard - it's fun! I suggest buying some extra parts of different values to help you experiment a bit. Even one-way speakers often need notch filters or BSC circuits.

I'll try to find some sort of grab-bag box-o-components for this... I've done it with nuts/washers/bolts as well as random wiring parts and fishin' tackle, so I figure I can find an assortment to get me started. I've done very little soldering and have never played around with designing/building any electronic components. But my dad was good at it. I'm counting on genetics.
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post #27 of 30 Old 07-09-2007, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willd View Post

Well there are two things here: designing a xover, and building from a proven design.

I was referring to the latter. Designing a xover is a whole 'nother ballgame. But simply following a schematic and soldering a handful of components together is far from difficult. There is no adjusting or "getting them right", just following the schematic.


Well that gives me a bit of hope... I'm looking forward to trying it out!
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post #28 of 30 Old 07-10-2007, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I pulled the trigger on the Tang Bands and they're on the way. I'd like to start building the boxes before the drivers get here, but I need to know a couple of things that I haven't seen around.

Do I need to change dimensions to accommodate for volume changes due to:

1. internal Accousta - stuff

2. bracing (if I decide on any internal bracing on this or another speaker)
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post #29 of 30 Old 07-10-2007, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blk_addr View Post

Well, I pulled the trigger on the Tang Bands and they're on the way. I'd like to start building the boxes before the drivers get here, but I need to know a couple of things that I haven't seen around.

Do I need to change dimensions to accommodate for volume changes due to:

1. internal Accousta - stuff

2. bracing (if I decide on any internal bracing on this or another speaker)

Bracing yes, Acoustastuff probably not. I don't know what enclosure you are making but in my smallish ones with the same drivers they sounded best with very little stuffing (some, but not a lot).
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post #30 of 30 Old 07-10-2007, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Perfect, that's what I needed to know. Home Depot is calling my name.....
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