New Project ?'s (lms 5400 or 2 tc2k) - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 55 Old 11-29-2007, 01:04 AM
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With all the talk about Feedback destroyers, is a Parametric EQ what you want to use to help correct inductance issues?

In short, no.

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Sealed will give you better SQ, but the ported will have more dB gain correct and less SQ?

This is a debated issue. I don't think "sealed means better SQ" though. I think it is just one way to do things made like choices made for any other design.
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post #32 of 55 Old 11-29-2007, 04:50 PM
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In regards to inductance issues, what is the correct way to remedy it?

Set two different crossover points if possible?

Where or what can I read to have a better understanding of this?

Got iSCSI?
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post #33 of 55 Old 11-29-2007, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Stealthlude View Post

In regards to inductance issues, what is the correct way to remedy it?

Choose a driver that doesn't have an "inductance problem" to begin with.

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Set two different crossover points if possible?

That is one way...to cross the sub over lower.
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post #34 of 55 Old 11-30-2007, 12:34 AM
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In regards to inductance, most good subwoofers have around 4-5mH of inductance or lower, the TC3k is around 20mH, that is huge. You see, designing speakers is all about trade-offs, some people just like or need their subs small. well, in order to do this, you have to make a very powerful motor to get the driver moving in that tiny cabinet, a powerful motor has lots of windings which contribute to the high inductance. High inductance does several things, first of all, it creates a stored energy problem somewhere in the passband, depending on how the inductance is, it can be very low, in the case of the TC3000, this is at about 40Hz, this gives the driver a hump in the fr, depending on the driver and how high the inductance is, this hump can be upwards of 10dB. After that hump, the inductance creates an early roll off, in the case of the TC3000, this makes the sub only useable to about 60Hz. Now, there are additional discussions on how inductance can affect the bl product and linearity of the woofer, but I don't know enough about that to discuss it. I may be wrong on some of this, but I am pretty sure its mostly correct, hope this helps.

Regarding Ported vs. Sealed
Don't think of ported subs as just a way to get more output, and sealed as a way to get better sound quality, think of them as ways of designing a good sounding sub for the right driver. Sealed subs don't have ports, so there is a huge can of worms they don't get into, just get a bunch of them and get your 0.5Q or LT circuit and EQ them to your room. Ported subs have a very nice way of taking the load off of the driver when it gets strained the most, down low. This actually gives the subs less distortion because the driver is working less and taking less load from the amplifier. Now, you just have to design the port so that is large enough so that it doesn't cause compression or audible chuffing. You also have to design it so that the first port resonance doesn't affect your crossover, and so that your box is large enough that it doesn't give the driver a hump in the middle of the passband (it kinda looks like an inductance hump) and enough extension to keep the majority of your air velocity and group delay in the super deep region (preferably below the audible range).
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post #35 of 55 Old 07-12-2008, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys. It has been a while and I just thought I would update this project. Was able to find a second tc2k but had to wait on building. Have worked on it for the past few months and this is what I ended up with. Thanks for all of the help!
8 cubic feet sealed
(2) TC 2000's
Designed it similiar to the JL Gotham with a lot of my own additions. This setup blows me away already and I only have 500 watts or so going to them. Have been looking for a ce4000 or xls1200 and might go with a ep2500 for simplicity. I thought I had very solid bass before but now I can't believe how much more this setup has. Thanks again.
HMM. I tried to post some pictures but the upload keeps failing. I haven't loaded pictures before. Are my files to big? If so, is there a way to size them down? Can't seem to figure it out. Thanks for the help.
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post #36 of 55 Old 07-12-2008, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by silversmoky View Post

Hey guys. It has been a while and I just thought I would update this project. Was able to find a second tc2k but had to wait on building. Have worked on it for the past few months and this is what I ended up with. Thanks for all of the help!
8 cubic feet sealed
(2) TC 2000's
Designed it similiar to the JL Gotham with a lot of my own additions. This setup blows me away already and I only have 500 watts or so going to them. Have been looking for a ce4000 or xls1200 and might go with a ep2500 for simplicity. I thought I had very solid bass before but now I can't believe how much more this setup has. Thanks again.
HMM. I tried to post some pictures but the upload keeps failing. I haven't loaded pictures before. Are my files to big? If so, is there a way to size them down? Can't seem to figure it out. Thanks for the help.

A pair of EP2500s would be fine.
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post #37 of 55 Old 07-12-2008, 07:47 PM
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go to photobucket and set up account. Then I will help from that point if you want.


Good luck,

Robert

 

 

Welcome my son, welcome to the machine....Must it be? It must be!

 


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post #38 of 55 Old 07-14-2008, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the photobucket option. I will try this out. Hopefully they come through.
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post #39 of 55 Old 07-14-2008, 08:10 PM
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Absolutely STUNNING! good work, what is it made out of? I am extremely impressed, could you post some more pics?
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post #40 of 55 Old 07-14-2008, 09:12 PM
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TC Sounds/Audio Pulse drivers break down like this...

TC5200 ideal for minuscule boxes(monster BL)and wasted in ported or any larger sealed.Ideal for car use IMO.

TC3000 ideal for smaller sealed boxes.

TC2000/REVO great all around for sealed and ported. Superb SQ driver,good Xmax,great Xmech,can handle major power. Best all around performer from TC in my view.

TC1000 also very high SQ driver,much lesser thermal and lower BL means these need larger optimal boxes than the TC2000. One of the finest budget drivers.

LMS-5400/Ultra,the finest subwoofer driver made(IMO). Very high Xmax,very linear,very high BL for a linear motor driver. Low distortion. THE driver to build a reference class subwoofer. One 18 or two 15's will fill a good size room even when used in a sealed configuration.


Silversmoky,

This Gotham...ish dual TC sealed sub looks great !


...


OT slightly...

With two LMS-Ultra 15's you can best a Gotham in output and I can bet a good deal...sound quality. But to do so time has to be spent to match these beauties to a proper amp here QSC PowerLight PL380 will do them no harm. And proper LT circuit...or at least a PEQ.

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #41 of 55 Old 07-14-2008, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silversmoky View Post

Thanks for the photobucket option. I will try this out. Hopefully they come through.

Wonderful. That is a fantastic looking sub. Do you have any assembly photos?

Good job,

Robert

 

 

Welcome my son, welcome to the machine....Must it be? It must be!

 


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post #42 of 55 Old 07-15-2008, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad you like it. I was pretty happy with how it turned out.
Army - It is composed of mdf, basic lumber, and I actually plastered all the way around the outside to make the curve very smooth and the box very stiff and dead. (Besides making it weigh a ton! I will try to post some more pictures. Thanks again for your help.

Ear - Thanks. I originally played around with the lms idea. Maybe an upgrade someday

Robert - I didn't really document much. I kind of had the idea in my head of how I wanted it and pretty much just went from there. I do have some dimensions and such. Thanks again for the help.
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post #43 of 55 Old 07-15-2008, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are a few more pictures. The one is next to an Svs 25-31.



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post #44 of 55 Old 07-15-2008, 11:32 PM
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That sub is out of this frickin world! I feel like a mere amateur now, stunning work! Definitely put those pics in the diy gallery. I am very curious about your finish and the process involved in the construction, if you could provide any pictures of the process and information about how its done, I'd greatly appreciate it, I am sure many others here are dying to know as well.

It is rare that we get diy builds that surpass the beauty of all but the finest top tier commercial offerings but yours belongs only with the best.
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post #45 of 55 Old 07-16-2008, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again army. The finish took alot of time. The outside is all Maple Burl Veneer. Sanded very smooth and then clear lacquered (Something like twenty five coats).
For the build, (Sorry, I didn't document much) I had basic dimensions in mind and was shooting for about 8 cubic feet. Decided on a shape, made three identical plates - top, middle, and bottom. Then assembled them using lots of 1 3/4" posts to form the curve. Then I plastered around the entire outside several times to a very smooth finish, and then to veneer and finishing.
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post #46 of 55 Old 07-16-2008, 08:39 AM
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have a question
what type of glue do i use for plastic port tube
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post #47 of 55 Old 07-16-2008, 11:17 AM
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As far as glue for a plastic port tube... if you are talking a pre-made port kit ( precision port ) then you need ABS glue. If you are installing a piece of ABS or PVC in an MDF box.... you can use several different products, such as 5 minute epoxy, construction adhesive.... hot melt glue... silicone. ( don't use silicone if you are going to try to paint the box at all )

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post #48 of 55 Old 07-16-2008, 11:20 AM
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Silversmoky...what an amazing finish... looks almost like marble or some sort of rock... so smooth and glossy! Truly awesome finish man.... beautiful.

"You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes."
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post #49 of 55 Old 07-16-2008, 12:00 PM
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Great work!

This is what I always wanted to do...but never had the desire to begin

Enjoy

Only time will tell what the future holds...so until then JAM LIKE THERES NO TOMORROW!
-Rob


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post #50 of 55 Old 07-16-2008, 12:07 PM
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Forgot to say...this is some high quality wotk right there !! This sub is a serious work of art.

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #51 of 55 Old 07-16-2008, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michael hurd View Post

As far as glue for a plastic port tube... if you are talking a pre-made port kit ( precision port ) then you need ABS glue. If you are installing a piece of ABS or PVC in an MDF box.... you can use several different products, such as 5 minute epoxy, construction adhesive.... hot melt glue... silicone. ( don't use silicone if you are going to try to paint the box at all )

it is a repair of an epik tower port tube
so contact cement not a good idea?
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post #52 of 55 Old 07-16-2008, 06:23 PM
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Repair? As in loose? I would IMO use hot-melt glue or 5-minute epoxy ( syringe applicator with mixing in nozzle.

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post #53 of 55 Old 12-21-2012, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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With the great deals right now on amps the upgrade bug got the best of me. I have been running happily with this setup and one EP4000. I am very satisfied but I always wonder how much better adding a second amp would be. So I've got the second EP4000 and was just curious what was the best way to hook this up? I think I confused myself researching how to do this the best way. Will I need to run another speaker cable from the amps to my sub (not easily done but is possible) and just run each sub with a single amp or can I combine the amps and just feed the power through my existing speaker cable to the subs (the subs are TC2k dvc wired to a 4 ohm load) Any help or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.
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post #54 of 55 Old 12-28-2012, 04:49 PM
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You will need to rewire the sub to support dual 4-ohm connections, or expose all 4 VC's. You will also need to purchase a DCX for the input signal splitting or an XLR Y-splitter; at least with the DCX you can increase the gain going to the EP4k, which is known to require higher gain compared to most home-audio gear.

Doubling the power typically nets 2-3db more SPL (in conditions where one is amp-limited rather than driver-limited).

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post #55 of 55 Old 01-19-2013, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Got this hooked up. Thanks. It sounds pretty good but I am really starting to realize my need for some EQ, which up to this point I have gone without. My living/theater room is open to pretty much the rest of the house and I am thinking that I am getting some serious nulls. Just curious what EQ I should go with and how I should go about hooking it out in my set up.
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