New Project ?'s (lms 5400 or 2 tc2k) - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 55 Old 07-15-2007, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
silversmoky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm starting to consider my next project. I really want to build something high end and powerful for my home theater room. Right now I have a 25-31 svs, which I like, but I would like quite a bit more.
This will be fitting in a corner of the room. Box dimensions not totally decided. I want it to FIT into the corner with a flat front containing the woofer/s. Probably somewhere around 8 to 9 cubic ft. inside. Was thinking of doing a ported design since it will be mostly for home theater unless you guys have some good suggestions on doing a sealed. Not sure also if I would be further ahead to go with a single lms 18" 5400 or something like dual 15" tc2k's. I guess overall just looking for some input and suggestions. Thanks.
silversmoky is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 55 Old 07-15-2007, 05:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jpmst3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Davidsville, PA
Posts: 8,135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 187
Either sounds good, what is your budget and any other constraints?

jpmst3 is online now  
post #3 of 55 Old 07-15-2007, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
silversmoky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Right now I am pretty open. I'm probably somewhere around $1000 to $1500 for the sub and box not including the amp, or less if it's possible to get the performance I am looking for. 8 to 9 cubic ft. is about the max interior size as it will shaped into the corner and it can only come out so far.
silversmoky is offline  
post #4 of 55 Old 07-16-2007, 09:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jpmst3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Davidsville, PA
Posts: 8,135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 187
Well, the LMS will chew up much of the $1000 leaving little for quality amplification. The $1500 is more realistic and gives some room for quality components. The TC2K would work great in a larger ported setup and the LMS could be used in many configs, most prefer sealed and more recently PR setups.

Dual ported 2Ks in the right enclosure(s) will have some advantages down low over the single LMS 18", but the LMS is a great way to get a killer driver with excellent SQ with great output to match.

jpmst3 is online now  
post #5 of 55 Old 07-17-2007, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
silversmoky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Would the 8 or 9 inside cubic feet be considered a large enough enclosure to get optimal performance from dual tc2k's? For home theater mostly what frequency should I tune to?What size ports, how many, and what length?
silversmoky is offline  
post #6 of 55 Old 07-17-2007, 07:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
armystud0911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 4,423
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Not a chance, you would need at least 10-12 cubic feet for each enclosure. If you put both drivers in the same one, you would need 20-24cubes.
armystud0911 is offline  
post #7 of 55 Old 07-17-2007, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
silversmoky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ok thanks. Good to know. What would be my best bet for that size enclosure? Can I go with dual something else or should I go with something like the single lms 5400? Also I have read on here that the tc3k is better suited for smaller enclosures (usually sealed). Would that size box work for dual tc3k sealed or would I have trouble getting down to lower home theater frequencies?
silversmoky is offline  
post #8 of 55 Old 07-17-2007, 08:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jpmst3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Davidsville, PA
Posts: 8,135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 187
Ya, the LMS and 3K are well suited for small sealed alignments. Of course, with the LMS you have the option of one 18"er which will yield close to the same output as two 3K 15"s.

jpmst3 is online now  
post #9 of 55 Old 07-17-2007, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
silversmoky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have never had a sealed sub, so I am not sure which enclosure I prefer. That being said I am totally willing to go that route. My only concern is I would like to get some good low end for home theater. How low, frequency wise would I be able to get with the 8 -9 cubic feet sealed with dual tc3k's or the lms 5400 18"?
silversmoky is offline  
post #10 of 55 Old 07-17-2007, 08:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jpmst3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Davidsville, PA
Posts: 8,135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 187
Well, it more or less depends on your room too and the how much power and EQ you need. You can go as low as you want by applying boost at the bottom end. If you go sealed you will need more power to achieve output down low when compared to an LLT/ported design.

jpmst3 is online now  
post #11 of 55 Old 07-17-2007, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
silversmoky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ok. So I can definitely get down there with the right amount of power! What do you suggest for power overall? Not a huge room. 15 X 15 8 1/2 ceilings two large openings/walkways.
silversmoky is offline  
post #12 of 55 Old 07-17-2007, 08:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jpmst3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Davidsville, PA
Posts: 8,135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 187
With large openings, you have to add those rooms to the overall cubic feet calculation. So, it sounds like you have a large space to fill. You will not get much if any room gain with a large space increasing the need for EQ.

The LMS and 3Ks love power, you can't really give them too much in most cases. To be withing budget, I would recommend an EP2500. Anything from 1500 - 3000 watts RMS is a good range.

You could get away without EQ and less power but larger ported enclosures with the 2Ks.

jpmst3 is online now  
post #13 of 55 Old 07-17-2007, 08:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Willd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 5,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Army is correct when he says that 9 isn't enough for two, but one doesn't need 10-12 per for a good performing sub. It has just become the norm around here...but you could still go with a single 15" TC-2000 in 9ft ported tuned a tad higher than the norm. It would obliterate your 25-31, no doubt.

But i could also see the argument for two 2000s or even SDX-15s sealed in that 9ft. I see such a sub has been mentioned already. That would certainly be a performer.
Willd is offline  
post #14 of 55 Old 07-17-2007, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
silversmoky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Really got me wondering about the sealed now! Seems like that might be the way to go with the size I have to deal with. I am sort of leaning towards dual something for some reason, although I love what the lms offer. I'm sure one would blow me away!
One opening of the room opens up to another similarly sized room but the other opens up into a hallway and also the stairway, which is a huge amount of space. I am a little vague on how to dial in more bottom power. I would need an eq to do this right? and lots of power?
Also talking dual sealed got me thinking about the 5200. I could probably swing two 15"ers if you think that would be a good idea.
silversmoky is offline  
post #15 of 55 Old 07-17-2007, 09:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Willd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 5,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I wouldn't go with the 5200...and really not even the 3000. 9ft^3 is enough space for the 2000 and SDX-15 to operate well, and they wouldn't require as much power or EQ.
Willd is offline  
post #16 of 55 Old 07-18-2007, 05:11 AM
Advanced Member
 
NickTF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I personally have two tc 2000 woofers with two of their 18" radiators and to be honest if I was in your shoes i'd also consider two 18" IXLs or something along those lines like the soundsplinter woofer as well. I can't comment on how they sound though since I don't have 1st hand experience but displacement for the money is there with that option for sure.

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
NickTF is offline  
post #17 of 55 Old 11-26-2007, 06:07 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
silversmoky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hey guys! Ended up putting this project off for a while when I couldn't decide which way I wanted to go with it. I have one 15" tc2000 that right now I am not even using. I really want to go dual and really considering something similar in Design to the gotham but not necessarily shooting to beat it in performance. Maybe looking to find another new tc2000 15 out there if possible. Would dual tc2000 15"ers work in sealed enclosure like this or close to it? What would be the optimum size for two in a sealed? Thanks.
silversmoky is offline  
post #18 of 55 Old 11-26-2007, 06:33 PM
Advanced Member
 
Stealthlude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
TC2000 drivers will work and sound good in sealed boxes as well... but most of the people around here use them for ported boxes.

If you get a LSM driver or a TC3000 I would say sealed or PR is the only way to go.

Not too long ago I picked up one 12" TC3000 and two 15" TC2000 drivers. The TC3000 is already inside a small .75 cubic foot sealed box. I am throwing about 800 real watts into it and its not even scratching the surface, I need a new amp. Thing is really power hungry. Thinking of Crown XS1200...

The two TC2000s are still sitting NIB. Just got them before the prices got jacked up... but I have a feeling the 12" will end up in my car and ill build two ported sonotubes or nice boxes for HT. Both 15"s and 12"s might also see some life in car audio in sealed boxes as well.

Its the amp cost I dont want to deal with yet... If you go sealed; I highly recommend in getting a EQ like a DEQ2496 and or a DCX2496 if you are doing this for stereo audio. Computer software is also out there to help to see the big picture for RTA and box making.

Got iSCSI?
Stealthlude is offline  
post #19 of 55 Old 11-26-2007, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
silversmoky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Yeah, I kind of wish I would have picked up 3000 before they were gone but I am liking the looks of some of the other drivers on the market now too and will maybe go with one of them for later projects. Do you think that somewhere around 8 to 10 cubic feet would work pretty well for the two 15 2000 sealed? I will maybe have to go with the eq as well. I guess for power I was considering the ep2500 for now and maybe upgrading in the future.
silversmoky is offline  
post #20 of 55 Old 11-26-2007, 09:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
armystud0911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 4,423
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Don't lament the TC3000, its a lot of money and has the highest inductance of pretty much any subwoofer. The TC2000 is a much better driver from SQ standpoint, very linear BL, not too bad inductance. You can put the TC2k's in sealed boxes, you can even make something like the Gotham, I'd put them both in an 8cubic foot box powered with an xs1200 or CE4000 if you can get one on the cheap. Each TC2k will sweep as much air as a Gotham driver (actually a tiny bit more) so with enough power, you will have Gotham level performance.
armystud0911 is offline  
post #21 of 55 Old 11-27-2007, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
silversmoky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks army. Wow, I always thought the tc2k were great drivers but I am glad to hear that they are THAT capable with this setup! I think I have been convinced on this. Definitely will look into the suggested amps. Quick question on size. Should I make it 8 cubic feet total, then subtract the space the drivers take? or should I make sure that it is a little more than 8 cubic feet to include the drivers space? Does that make sense? Not sure if this is even something to worry about.
silversmoky is offline  
post #22 of 55 Old 11-27-2007, 04:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jpmst3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Davidsville, PA
Posts: 8,135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 187
If you are going sealed, the volume of the driver is negligible. It is something like .1 cubic feet. Even 1 cubic foot will not make a huge difference.

jpmst3 is online now  
post #23 of 55 Old 11-27-2007, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
silversmoky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Great! Thanks guys.
silversmoky is offline  
post #24 of 55 Old 11-27-2007, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
silversmoky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Can somebody smarter than me or someone with a better memory help me out here? I remember a while back someone on here had some tc subs for sale but I cannot seem to find the thread. Tried search after search but can't get it to come up. Just thought I would check and see if he had anything left!
silversmoky is offline  
post #25 of 55 Old 11-27-2007, 06:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jpmst3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Davidsville, PA
Posts: 8,135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by silversmoky View Post

Can somebody smarter than me or someone with a better memory help me out here? I remember a while back someone on here had some tc subs for sale but I cannot seem to find the thread. Tried search after search but can't get it to come up. Just thought I would check and see if he had anything left!

There was an email sent out to the existing customers a couple of months back. You had to call them to order. So, you may want to give them a call and see if they have anything left at all.

jpmst3 is online now  
post #26 of 55 Old 11-27-2007, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
silversmoky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks I will give them a call. Any clue on that thread I am looking for?
silversmoky is offline  
post #27 of 55 Old 11-27-2007, 08:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Warpdrv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7,350
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Found the one he posted in Car Audio...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=924907

Ultimately 15" CSS-SDX's model roughly the same if your looking at TC-2K's... and easier to get your hands on....
Warpdrv is offline  
post #28 of 55 Old 11-28-2007, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
silversmoky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hey thanks warpdrv. That's the one I was looking for! Couldn't remember what he had on hand. Thanks for the input on the sdx's. I may have to go that route.
silversmoky is offline  
post #29 of 55 Old 11-28-2007, 11:32 PM
Advanced Member
 
Stealthlude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by armystud0911 View Post

Don't lament the TC3000, its a lot of money and has the highest inductance of pretty much any subwoofer. The TC2000 is a much better driver from SQ standpoint, very linear BL, not too bad inductance. You can put the TC2k's in sealed boxes, you can even make something like the Gotham, I'd put them both in an 8cubic foot box powered with an xs1200 or CE4000 if you can get one on the cheap. Each TC2k will sweep as much air as a Gotham driver (actually a tiny bit more) so with enough power, you will have Gotham level performance.

I kind of have to agree with him on this one too... I only got the TC3000 since I just wanted to try it out, more of a toy than a serious DIY purchase. It was the two TC2000 15's I wanted for my serious DIY.

After learning more about the woofers (after buying them from forum recommendations) I was very happy I went with the two 15 TC200s and went small on the TC3000s.

I am really digging your JL Gotham idea using the dual TC2000 15's I seriously think I might have to take you up on that idea and scrap my dual sonotube idea I am more of a SQ guy anyways and don't think I would enjoy a huge ported setup like that I more or less just wanted to see what type of output can be achieved ported.

At one point I thought of 1 sealed 15 TC2000 and one ported in one array using a digital active crossover like the DEQ2496. Maybe even throw my 12 sealed OR bass shakers into the mix since I have 3 outputs to use. I really don't know what way to go yet lol.

One thing I wanted to ask you more on was the TC3000 inductance I already noticed why the 3000 is a harder driver to work with With all the talk about Feedback destroyers, is a Parametric EQ what you want to use to help correct inductance issues? Just trying to learn more about the best setups before dropping money into the box making. Right now the 12's in a recycled sealed box and the TC2000s are NEW in Box in Closet =)

Got iSCSI?
Stealthlude is offline  
post #30 of 55 Old 11-28-2007, 11:35 PM
Advanced Member
 
Stealthlude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
ok... now im getting serious about ripping off the JL Gotham idea lol.

My fear is sub placement... I was really going for two boxes for a placement and peformance standpoint, but I also like the look of the 2 in 1.

What would be better? 2 or 1.

Also in regards to box... Sealed will give you better SQ, but the ported will have more dB gain correct and less SQ? Will the sealed box (or can it) hit as low as a ported box is designed right?

Got iSCSI?
Stealthlude is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off