Any 18’s on the horizon with XBL^2? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 711 Old 09-05-2007, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
04FLHRCI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 777
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
The winter project this year will include an IB install; my initial plans are four 18's with Sound Splinter and FiCar leading the list of candidate drivers.

I'll likely start accumulating components next month and was curious if anyone was in the know regarding 18's with XBL^2? A CSS entry would be nice!!!

Larry
04FLHRCI is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 711 Old 09-05-2007, 07:09 AM
Member
 
Kyle Richardson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Perry, Ut
Posts: 165
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Yes, there is an 18" in the works from Exodus Audio that should be available about the time you begin your project. I wish I could give more details but I cant at this time.
Kyle Richardson is offline  
post #3 of 711 Old 09-05-2007, 08:29 AM
Senior Member
 
aduljr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Laveen(phx), Arizona
Posts: 297
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Richardson View Post

Yes, there is an 18" in the works from Exodus Audio that should be available about the time you begin your project. I wish I could give more details but I cant at this time.

sounds yummy
aduljr is offline  
post #4 of 711 Old 09-05-2007, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
04FLHRCI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 777
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Thanks Kyle,

I'll inquire per pre-orders and such via your website!

Larry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Richardson View Post

Yes, there is an 18" in the works from Exodus Audio that should be available about the time you begin your project. I wish I could give more details but I cant at this time.

04FLHRCI is offline  
post #5 of 711 Old 09-20-2007, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
04FLHRCI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 777
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Bump for visibility...
04FLHRCI is offline  
post #6 of 711 Old 09-20-2007, 08:23 AM
Member
 
DevilDriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The only one I know of that is intended for production is the one from Exodus Audio which is sure to get your attention. I can't say anything more than that regarding the product, but from what Kevin has told me, it should be quite impressive.

Neil
DevilDriver is offline  
post #7 of 711 Old 10-16-2007, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
04FLHRCI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 777
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Kevin has posted his target specs; how does this compare to current 18" offerings?

http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/i...?topic=46027.0

Larry
04FLHRCI is offline  
post #8 of 711 Old 10-16-2007, 07:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ssabripo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Plantation, Floriduh
Posts: 6,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Re: 3.06
Fs: 18.6 Hz
Qms: 11.39
Qes: .431
Qts: .415
Sd: 1080 cm^2
Mms: 486.53 g
BL: 20.15
Le: 8.1mH
Cms: 0.15 mm/N
Xmax: 32-34mm

now THAT is a very good start!!!!!
ssabripo is offline  
post #9 of 711 Old 10-16-2007, 09:22 PM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 13,506
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 314 Post(s)
Liked: 729
Nice, nice.

Oh! Pretty high Le for a XBL^2 sub. [/flame suit on]


My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)

https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link

http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website

Scott Simonian is offline  
post #10 of 711 Old 10-16-2007, 10:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Willd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 5,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Oh! Pretty high Le for a XBL^2 sub.

That spec is a bit odd. Maybe Kevin made a typo?
Willd is offline  
post #11 of 711 Old 10-16-2007, 11:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
KyleLee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: California
Posts: 1,125
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
that is a lot of BL For a 3" under hung-hung split gap motor. I'm guessing the gap is as tight as a nats ass, or perhaps the voice coil has a lot of windings on it...which would account for the high Le # and 500 grams of moving mass. none the less, thats a lot of BL either way.... I'm guessing its a big heavy vc thats doing it.

data-bass.com
@databass_audio
KyleLee is offline  
post #12 of 711 Old 10-17-2007, 03:46 AM
Senior Member
 
CupCak3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 224
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willd View Post

That spec is a bit odd. Maybe Kevin made a typo?

I was hoping the same thing...
CupCak3 is offline  
post #13 of 711 Old 10-17-2007, 06:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
armystud0911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 4,423
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
As many of us know, inductance can be a very hard thing to measure, let's hope that this motor measures similarly in inductance to others like the Havoc or Rl-p. Personally, I would pay much more for a driver like this if it has lower distortion> $300-$400 is more in the bargain bracket, if this is a 55lb driver, I would expect to pay $450-500 for it and wouldn't look back. Also, Kevin says it is not optimized for small boxes, but as far as current 18's go, I would say it does fairly well. With BL as high as that and its QTS fairly low, I would say that driver would work fine in 5-6 cubic foot box as long as it is well stuffed. Now some people may think thats a big box, (and it is compared to the TC5200!) but I think its nice and small for an 18! The market is ripe for another ultra premium 18 with TC gone, We have the Rl-p, the Fi Car Q and the Havoc for $300-$425 drivers, I'd like to see a good $500 driver leading the pack again, something with over 30mm of xmax 1500-3000watts power handling.
armystud0911 is offline  
post #14 of 711 Old 10-17-2007, 06:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Willd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 5,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


As many of us know, inductance can be a very hard thing to measure, let's hope that this motor measures similarly in inductance to others like the Havoc or Rl-p. Personally, I would pay much more for a driver like this if it has lower distortion> $300-$400 is more in the bargain bracket, if this is a 55lb driver, I would expect to pay $450-500 for it and wouldn't look back.

I certainly agree. I'd expect to and would be willing to pay such a price if the driver is worth it. This one might be!
Willd is offline  
post #15 of 711 Old 10-17-2007, 06:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Willd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 5,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleLee View Post

that is a lot of BL For a 3" under hung-hung split gap motor. I'm guessing the gap is as tight as a nats ass, or perhaps the voice coil has a lot of windings on it...which would account for the high Le # and 500 grams of moving mass. none the less, thats a lot of BL either way.... I'm guessing its a big heavy vc thats doing it.

I thought it was a 4" VC.
Willd is offline  
post #16 of 711 Old 10-17-2007, 07:19 AM
Advanced Member
 
NickTF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 554
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Wonder how it would do in an IB. Once I sell my current TC 2000/18 Vmp subwoofers i'll be buying drivers and have narrowed it down to 4 18s with the FI Q in the lead thus far. If these are priced reasonably and don't cost more then $400 each when buying 4 i'll consider them seriously!

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
NickTF is offline  
post #17 of 711 Old 10-17-2007, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
Advanced Member
 
04FLHRCI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 777
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Hi Nick,

I'm looking at the same install, IB with 4 18s; I'm curious to see how Kevin's design matures over the next couple of months. Waiting will be the hardest part; perhaps Q1 2008...

Larry

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTF View Post

Wonder how it would do in an IB. Once I sell my current TC 2000/18 Vmp subwoofers i'll be buying drivers and have narrowed it down to 4 18s with the FI Q in the lead thus far. If these are priced reasonably and don't cost more then $400 each when buying 4 i'll consider them seriously!

04FLHRCI is offline  
post #18 of 711 Old 10-17-2007, 08:00 AM
Advanced Member
 
NickTF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 554
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04FLHRCI View Post

Hi Nick,

I'm looking at the same install, IB with 4 18s; I'm curious to see how Kevin's design matures over the next couple of months. Waiting will be the hardest part; perhaps Q1 2008...

Larry

Uh oh, not sure I can weight that long, we'll have to see. All depends on how long it takes me to offload my current subs. I'll keep my eye on this that's for sure!

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
NickTF is offline  
post #19 of 711 Old 10-17-2007, 08:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Willd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 5,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTF View Post

Wonder how it would do in an IB. Once I sell my current TC 2000/18 Vmp subwoofers i'll be buying drivers and have narrowed it down to 4 18s with the FI Q in the lead thus far. If these are priced reasonably and don't cost more then $400 each when buying 4 i'll consider them seriously!

You might want to check out the FiCar forum at HTS. There are a couple of interesting things on the horizon.
Willd is offline  
post #20 of 711 Old 10-17-2007, 09:15 AM
Advanced Member
 
NickTF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 554
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willd View Post

You might want to check out the FiCar forum at HTS. There are a couple of interesting things on the horizon.

Oh yeah! On my way over now!

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
NickTF is offline  
post #21 of 711 Old 10-17-2007, 09:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ssabripo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Plantation, Floriduh
Posts: 6,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willd View Post

You might want to check out the FiCar forum at HTS. There are a couple of interesting things on the horizon.

why don't you just post the info man?!
ssabripo is offline  
post #22 of 711 Old 10-17-2007, 09:30 AM
Member
 
DevilDriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willd View Post

I thought it was a 4" VC.

Not sure if this has changed, but when I originally discussed it with Kevin a long time ago, the coil was wrapped on a 4" diameter former and it utilizes a neodymium magnetic stack with a (relatively) tall top plate.

As far as inductance is concerned, I don't feel it's a very big deal with a subwoofer (if you lowpass below the inductive corner frequency, who cares?) but I do think inductance variation is a concern and it may be in that particular design based on where the copper is located. I'm not totally up on predicting inductance variation but it seems to me that even with the copper, there will be some considerable variation. I could be totally off, though.

It's a very interesting offering, no doubt, and I would expect very strong performance based on my previous experiences with Exodus and the general concept that Kevin is leading with here.

Neil
DevilDriver is offline  
post #23 of 711 Old 10-17-2007, 09:31 AM
Advanced Member
 
NickTF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 554
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willd View Post

You might want to check out the FiCar forum at HTS. There are a couple of interesting things on the horizon.

YOU SIR, ARE THE MAN.

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
NickTF is offline  
post #24 of 711 Old 10-17-2007, 09:33 AM
Member
 
DevilDriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 42
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

why don't you just post the info man?!



Quote:
Originally Posted by zxaaxz View Post

Scott, any new info on the two IB subs you are working on?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fi Audio View Post

Actually yes and no...lol
The 15" single 2 Ohm sub is done and we will start production on those when I return from a business trip (start in about 2 weeks). This one has 22mm of Xmax and is mechanically limited (24.5 mm of Xmag). These are a 2" coiled sub and will probably go for $119 shipped for 4 or more. They are decently efficient and lower power handling (then again they dont need as much either). About 250W gets them to Xmax at 20Hz.
The 18" single 2 Ohm is a 3" coiled sub and has a low .81mH inductance. This is the one I am doing one last iteration on to get the qts right where I want it. Last iteration ended up being .68 which some feel is a little high. Next one FEAs for .61 and Ill machine that when I return as well.
We will have parts on hand for both when I return and I will most likely just have to machine the larger 18" sub a little when we get things in... probably $209 for 30mm of Xmax.

Ill get specs up soon for these and start a new post as well. These wont be on the Fi site and I wont really "market" them. More of a HTS and CIB forum "in the know" type thing.

Thanks,
Scott


Neil
DevilDriver is offline  
post #25 of 711 Old 10-17-2007, 09:38 AM
Advanced Member
 
NickTF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 554
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilDriver View Post


One could do an IB with six of the 18" IB subs for around the same price as 4 Q18s. My god, I can hear my home telling me no but my problems with excess telling me yes, oh yes!!!!!!!!!!!

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
NickTF is offline  
post #26 of 711 Old 10-17-2007, 09:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ssabripo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Plantation, Floriduh
Posts: 6,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
mother fuken right!!!!

18" driver with 30mm Xmax, 0.8mH inductance, and a Qts of 0.61.....all for $209?

man oh man! an IB or multi-sealed setup with these and you are in fabulous shape!!! whoa.

with $1400 including the power plant and EQ, plus 4 drivers, and you can do some SERIOUS damage!
ssabripo is offline  
post #27 of 711 Old 10-17-2007, 09:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kevin Haskins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Nice, nice.

Oh! Pretty high Le for a XBL^2 sub. [/flame suit on]


Ha! You don't need the flame suit. Its high inductance because its a big coil.

Even with XBL^2 motors there are limitations. If you want lots of BL you have to find it somewhere.

Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
Kevin Haskins is offline  
post #28 of 711 Old 10-17-2007, 09:48 AM
Advanced Member
 
NickTF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 554
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

mother fuken right!!!!


with $1400 including the power plant and EQ, plus 4 drivers, and you can do some SERIOUS damage!

Yeah, that's my only concern. My two tcsounds 15 2000/18" VMP radiator 7.5 cubic foot subs with the PLX3602 in my house will cause my windows to flex about 1" during super low frequency content like black hawk down's Irene scene. I can't imagine what that would be like with over 40 liters of displacment. I honestly think something would give away!

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
NickTF is offline  
post #29 of 711 Old 10-17-2007, 09:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kevin Haskins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by armystud0911 View Post

Personally, I would pay much more for a driver like this if it has lower distortion> $300-$400 is more in the bargain bracket, if this is a 55lb driver, I would expect to pay $450-500 for it and wouldn't look back. Also, Kevin says it is not optimized for small boxes, but as far as current 18's go, I would say it does fairly well. With BL as high as that and its QTS fairly low, I would say that driver would work fine in 5-6 cubic foot box as long as it is well stuffed. Now some people may think thats a big box, (and it is compared to the TC5200!) but I think its nice and small for an 18! The market is ripe for another ultra premium 18 with TC gone, We have the Rl-p, the Fi Car Q and the Havoc for $300-$425 drivers, I'd like to see a good $500 driver leading the pack again, something with over 30mm of xmax 1500-3000watts power handling.

We will have an option on the web site for people who want to pay extra.

Really... I don't know exactly where the price is going to land. Its a big, expensive driver to build not to mention they take a lot of warehouse space. It should be a lot of fun though.

The main problems with the large ported designs is having a port large enough to work with this kind of displacement. The minimum would be a flared 8" unit and a 10" port looks advisable. Slot ports or large sonosubs are going to be the main solution for vented designs. I've been mainly looking at 340-360L but I'll see where the final specs land before getting too excited.

For IB these should be great. Smaller sealed boxes you start to run into limitations of available power and getting enough into the driver to run it to full excursion. These should handle a lot of power but hey.... you can only realistically get so much into a VC/former before it produces smoke .

Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
Kevin Haskins is offline  
post #30 of 711 Old 10-17-2007, 10:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Kevin Haskins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilDriver View Post

Not sure if this has changed, but when I originally discussed it with Kevin a long time ago, the coil was wrapped on a 4" diameter former and it utilizes a neodymium magnetic stack with a (relatively) tall top plate.

It has changed.... we went back to a proven motor design to short-cut the development process. The Neo would have been sweet because to tell you the truth, I don't like dealing with UPS claims. The motor as designed though is significantly cheaper than the neo version. The savings on shipping didn't even come close to paying for the cost of the neo motor. It would have been >$600 and that was not so attractive. I figure most of these are going to be used in IB applications where the size is not as big of a concern as the price/output ratio.

Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio
Kevin Haskins is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off