RL-P18 meets the "DOH! button" - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 330 Old 12-09-2007, 03:36 PM
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Yeowza!

I love the symmetry of the opposing portage.

Any plans for grills to cover the cones, or is that a stupid question? (With kids and dogs around, I always worry...)
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post #272 of 330 Old 12-09-2007, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I figure if the RL-P18 is sturdy enough to support a large chihuahua...



... then it should hold up well against my almost-5-year-old son.

I actually do not have any plans to cover the drivers. Why? I guess I'm just lazy. The aluminum cone and rubber surround of the RL-P18 seem pretty tough. The "cone" is actually spherical in shape (not conical). Imagine a slice being taken off a very large ball.

Man... now that they are both in place... I am really itching to paint the cabinets!

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post #273 of 330 Old 12-09-2007, 04:08 PM
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The aluminum cone and rubber surround of the RL-P18 seem pretty though.

I think they look nice as well. I certainly wouldn't bother or want to cover them.
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post #274 of 330 Old 12-09-2007, 04:52 PM
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They make your screen look small

I highly advise you NOT to paint them in the house!!! I say this because I bought some of that DiY bedliner stuff and used it on my old truck a few years ago. That stuff is crazy high in VOC's. It will fry your mind if you paint that inside. I did my bed halfway in the garage and halfway outside (out of the sun) and it was pretty nasty stuff.

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post #275 of 330 Old 12-09-2007, 11:47 PM - Thread Starter
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You're not the only one to say that! Oh, what a problem to have... your 8 foot wide screen suddenly seeming small!

I'll keep that in mind. If I do paint them in the house (split level "daylight basement") I'll open up all the windows and the sliding door down here and get some fans going. So far the Duplicolor bedliner spray doesn't seem all that noxious.

I brought my PC downstairs and fired up Room EQ Wizard. First thing I did is test the resonant frequency of the second sub. It came out at 13.2 Hz compared to about 13.0 Hz for the first sub. I used slightly less stuffing and the driver isn't broken in, so that seems about right to me. At least they are consistent.

I've got some more SPL graphs I'll post soon. One thing I can say is that the "twins" are capable of 120 dB at 13 Hz in-room (mic at 2 meters). Good god, my neighbors must really hate me by now. I didn't realize it was already 11:30 PM. Oops!

As the room is wreaking havoc with the response at 43 Hz, I'm not sure I will leave the subs under the screen. Lots of experimentation (AKA "trial and error") to be done here, that's for sure.

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post #276 of 330 Old 12-10-2007, 06:46 PM
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Alright! My man!

Those look fierce! Very cool, indeed. Funny that you mention some problems in the 40's with your setup. Not sure how much of my build thread you went through but I had (have?) the same problem. I had to relocate my subs and alter the speaker/sub XO. A simple change of 80hz to 60hz made the transition much smoother. Although with time I have noticed that my subs easily outpace my mains. An serious upgrade is in the works for me. Also, have been looking at projectors and it looks like I should skip 1080p for a little while and go with the Panny AX200U. Not a bad projector at all.

The screen I want costs as much as the projector though. Know of any affordable but good looking acoustically transparent screens, Bradley?

Give us some updated measurements with them in the place they are now and do some relocating if needed. Lets contrast and compare.

Good work, bass brother.


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post #277 of 330 Old 12-10-2007, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Also, have been looking at projectors and it looks like I should skip 1080p for a little while and go with the Panny AX200U. Not a bad projector at all.

Ditto...same model as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

The screen I want costs as much as the projector though. Know of any affordable but good looking acoustically transparent screens, Bradley?

There are some DiY A/T screens I have seen on here with good results. Sorry, no link handy.

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Give us some updated measurements with them in the place they are now and do some relocating if needed. Lets contrast and compare.

Sounds like "Show me yours and I will show you mine" huh Scotty?? J/k

Going to be around for New Years? It looks like I will be in Clovis for it.

As for the bedliner maybe the spray is better. Mine came in a jug that I had to roll on. Nasty sh!t

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post #278 of 330 Old 12-10-2007, 10:52 PM
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I just wanna know if the little chihuahua has suffered any hearing loss yet?
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post #279 of 330 Old 12-10-2007, 11:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Those look fierce! Very cool, indeed. Funny that you mention some problems in the 40's with your setup. Not sure how much of my build thread you went through but I had (have?) the same problem. I had to relocate my subs and alter the speaker/sub XO. A simple change of 80hz to 60hz made the transition much smoother. Although with time I have noticed that my subs easily outpace my mains. An serious upgrade is in the works for me.

Thanks, Scott! It was a lot of work but now finally the results are being fully realized. It's truly impressive what these subs will do and worth all of the time and expense, in my opinion. You just can't go to the store or some web site and buy something like this.

I haven't had a lot of time yet to play with the crossover or relocate the subs. But I had a similar problem at 58 Hz when I originally got the first sub going. Standing it up and putting it in the corner took care of that, so hopefully finding the right placement for the twins will yield a nicer looking response graph than this:



116 dB at 12.5 Hz (from 2 meters). Not too shabby, eh? And there's even more where that came from. I hit 120 dB at 13 Hz last night before I chickened out and called it quits. Just glad the cops didn't show up.

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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Also, have been looking at projectors and it looks like I should skip 1080p for a little while and go with the Panny AX200U. Not a bad projector at all.

The screen I want costs as much as the projector though. Know of any affordable but good looking acoustically transparent screens, Bradley?

You'll like the Panny AX200. At that price point, few projectors can match its brightness and versatility with the zoom and lens shift. I'm sure 1080p would be a little sharper but HD DVD and Blu Ray look fantastic on my AX100. I haven't researched screens or screen material in a while. I'm almost embarrassed to admit I paid $1600 for mine, the best price there was at the time for this type of screen. Hopefully you can find some more affordable options.

One more graph before I retire for the evening. This is the nearfield measurement from the second sub. As I mentioned before, the tune is lower than I originally wanted but it's very close to sub #1, so at least we have some consistency here.


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post #280 of 330 Old 12-10-2007, 11:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I just wanna know if the little chihuahua has suffered any hearing loss yet?

Oh, that's not my dog. (I don't even have dog.) Another guy posted that picture earlier in this thread. I just think it's funny as all hell so I took the first opportunity I had to post it again.

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post #281 of 330 Old 12-11-2007, 10:41 AM
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Ditto...same model as well.

Ive done some research on it and it seems like a really good deal. I really like all the modes, menu and the remote too. The smoothscreen and overall brightness sold me. Hope the black levels are decent.

Quote:
There are some DiY A/T screens I have seen on here with good results. Sorry, no link handy.

Oh really? Kewl. Ill have to look. I glanced in there one day and didnt think there would be any A/T diy screens in there. Something to consider when Im looking to pick up a projector.

Quote:
Sounds like "Show me yours and I will show you mine" huh Scotty?? J/k

Well, kinda. My graphs all look awful and Im pretty sure Im doing it right. I have a peaky room. None of my graphs look smooth like Bradley's. Its a small room that is long and skinny. I get great 35hz. I actually flipped my subs over and took measurements last night. They look very similar to before. Im going to experiment with not-so-symmetrical locations cause I think I have cancellations or something to that effect. Its very frustrating in such a small room. Plus, I cant get the greatest bass from my seat sometimes. Id love to get the bass from the back corners but then why would I need a surround sound system at that point? Bleh.

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Going to be around for New Years? It looks like I will be in Clovis for it.

Sure will be. Send me a PM when you are coming into town so I can disappoint you with my lack of bass from two 18's.

AAGGGHHHH!!!!

Wotw sounded pretty kewl last night. Everything below 40hz seems pretty good. Its the 50-200hz that needs some serious beefing up in my room.

Quote:
Thanks, Scott! It was a lot of work but now finally the results are being fully realized. It's truly impressive what these subs will do and worth all of the time and expense, in my opinion. You just can't go to the store or some web site and buy something like this.

I haven't had a lot of time yet to play with the crossover or relocate the subs. But I had a similar problem at 58 Hz when I originally got the first sub going. Standing it up and putting it in the corner took care of that, so hopefully finding the right placement for the twins will yield a nicer looking response graph than this:

I knew you would feel great when you got the second in there. Itll be really nice to see them both painted. Darth Star-ish almost. So right about not being able to buy something like this from the store. Its pretty sad when someone you know thinks they are top **** when they come home with a Def Tech subslopic for $1500 and you tell about these and they think you are crazy stupid and have some craptacular setup. Heh.

I remember an old friend thought that his 'Fisher Price' (at least thats what we called it) toy sub sounded just like my 214 liter, 15hz tuned Tempest but mine "was just louder". Ha! It was so small I could fit almost three of them down the port tube on just one of my current RLp18 subs. He wishes he had six of them toy subs, still wouldnt be as loud/deep as my single Tempest. Ahahahahah! I had an inside joke I played on him whenever I came over with my Xbox (it was modded). It has a menu and I put all sorts of songs on it so when you booted it up it would play a random song. I placed a 30hz-20hz sweep on there. Sounded awesome at my house but on his Tonka toy sub it was pure silence or hardcore chuffing if he left it up too loud to compensate. Beautiful.

Rant done.


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post #282 of 330 Old 12-11-2007, 10:41 AM
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116 dB at 12.5 Hz (from 2 meters). Not too shabby, eh? And there's even more where that came from. I hit 120 dB at 13 Hz last night before I chickened out and called it quits. Just glad the cops didn't show up.

DAYYUM!! I wonder what kind of SPL I can get down there? Hmmm....maybe I should wait until after I get back from my vacation to break some windows.

Quote:
You'll like the Panny AX200. At that price point, few projectors can match its brightness and versatility with the zoom and lens shift. I'm sure 1080p would be a little sharper but HD DVD and Blu Ray look fantastic on my AX100. I haven't researched screens or screen material in a while. I'm almost embarrassed to admit I paid $1600 for mine, the best price there was at the time for this type of screen. Hopefully you can find some more affordable options.

I think so too. The albeit small sacrifice of "just" using 720p will be worth the big screen, HD capability (FINALLY!) and A/T screen capability (FINALLY!!!!). Ive read all sorts of great reviews of the thing. Gotta love that smooth screen technology. The brightness should be good for a punchy picture too cause I have a well controlled room, lightwise. Xbox 360, HDDVD and Blu-ray should get a big step up from my S-video 480i via 4" CRTs (eeee-gad!) to 720p greatness.

Hmmm...need newer, louder speakers behind the screen though. Hmmm, horns sounds like a good option for me.

Keep up the good work, Brad. Post up some more graphs when you have the time. Listening impressions are very welcome for those researching too.


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post #283 of 330 Old 12-11-2007, 11:05 AM
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Ive done some research on it and it seems like a really good deal. I really like all the modes, menu and the remote too. The smoothscreen and overall brightness sold me. Hope the black levels are decent.

I agree...the lack of pixel structure should look great!


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Oh really? Kewl. Ill have to look. I glanced in there one day and didnt think there would be any A/T diy screens in there. Something to consider when Im looking to pick up a projector.

There are a lot of great DiY screens out. I used to own a projector years ago. I had it setup with the works: table mounted with a crappy barracks bed sheet for a screen! I just realized why my wife has hesitations to get another projector: she hasn't seen a nice setup?! She didn't want me to get the other at first either because what she knew of projectors were the crappy slide projectors from school.

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Sure will be. Send me a PM when you are coming into town so I can disappoint you with my lack of bass from two 18's.

Can do


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Its pretty sad when someone you know thinks they are top **** when they come home with a Def Tech subslopic for $1500 and you tell about these and they think you are crazy stupid and have some craptacular setup. Heh. It was so small I could fit almost three of them down the port tube on just one of my current RLp18 subs.

That's so funny because I know a few people like that. The best part is they actually *BELIEVE* that the crap they bought sounds better. Perception of the wallet I guess??

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post #284 of 330 Old 12-11-2007, 11:11 AM
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BTW if your lighting is controlled there is a similar priced Sharp that offered better contrast and IIRC a silightly better PQ. Although it didn't have the distinct complete lack of pixels like the Panny. Also, it lacked the brightness essential to combat more ambient light as offered by the Panny.

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post #285 of 330 Old 12-12-2007, 10:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Tonight I tried standing the subs up on end and shoving them into the corners, best I could. I must confess I got a little "greedy" with the gain and SPL levels. I think I had the master volume set at -3.0 dB on the receiver and gain knobs at -9 on the CE4000. This is with the mains turned off and crossover set to 200 Hz for the sake of testing. No EQ at all.



Where the cursor sits is 117.9 dB at 12.5 Hz. Really makes your hair stand on end, lemme tell ya!

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post #286 of 330 Old 12-12-2007, 10:24 PM
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"holy crap" comes to mind when I see that.
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post #287 of 330 Old 12-13-2007, 05:28 AM
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Wow, that is incredibly impressive... 3 dB above reference at 12.5 Hz. Congrats on a job well done.
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post #288 of 330 Old 12-13-2007, 09:48 AM
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My god, man. Truly Massive SPL at that frequency, and 120@20 is no laughing matter either.

Have you showed this to Mike?

Get yourself in the gallery over there, he'll be glad you did.
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post #289 of 330 Old 12-13-2007, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btp View Post

Tonight I tried standing the subs up on end and shoving them into the corners, best I could. I must confess I got a little "greedy" with the gain and SPL levels. I think I had the master volume set at -3.0 dB on the receiver and gain knobs at -9 on the CE4000. This is with the mains turned off and crossover set to 200 Hz for the sake of testing. No EQ at all.

Where the cursor sits is 117.9 dB at 12.5 Hz. Really makes your hair stand on end, lemme tell ya!

How have you calibrated the absolute SPL? Are you using the RS SPL meter?
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post #290 of 330 Old 12-13-2007, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, I'm using the digital RS SPL meter and the .cal file posted on HTShack. I calibrated the SPL using REW's "calibrate" function. REW only allows you to calibrate up to an indicated 100 dB, so that's exactly what I did... to make sure I could do high SPL readings without clipping the mic input.

I don't know how accurate this method of measuring is and I don't have a professionally calibrated SPL meter to reference. Feel free to draw your own conclusions or suggest a better way to go about taking these kinds of measurements.

Edit: just to clarify, the RS Digital SPL meter's line out signal is connected to the sound card's line-in jack, not the mic input.

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post #291 of 330 Old 12-13-2007, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Have you showed this to Mike?

Get yourself in the gallery over there, he'll be glad you did.

Mike who?

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post #292 of 330 Old 12-13-2007, 01:52 PM
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Mike Jones!!

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post #293 of 330 Old 12-13-2007, 01:53 PM
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Sorry...couldn't resist. I emailed Mike a link to my build thread...will send him the final measurements when I get them. You should send him yours. I am sure he would flaunt those numbers

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post #294 of 330 Old 12-13-2007, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Mike who? Seriously, I have no idea who you are talking about. Can someone post a link please?

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post #295 of 330 Old 12-13-2007, 09:05 PM
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Mike@SoundSplinter, the very friendly owner of the company.

I was so excited when I ordered my first RL-p, I asked him to autograph it. He went out, bought one of those metallic silver pens, and signed my cone. Started a big trend with the mobile audio guys - signed woofers were popping up everywhere.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...+soundsplinter

Mine met it's untimely end at the hands of a girlfriend's clumsy father and his quadzillawatt camping lantern.

Anyway, he's one of the good guys, and would enjoy your build thread. :thumbsup:
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post #296 of 330 Old 12-14-2007, 12:21 PM
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Bradley, your the one who originally told me to contact Mike directly. You breathe to much mdf or something??

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post #297 of 330 Old 12-14-2007, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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You breathe to much mdf or something??

Hahaha... well, actually... yes... I did!

But you have to admit "Mike" is a very common name. Could be anybody.

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post #298 of 330 Old 12-14-2007, 01:58 PM
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It was a lot of work but now finally the results are being fully realized. It's truly impressive what these subs will do and worth all of the time and expense, in my opinion. You just can't go to the store or some web site and buy something like this.

+

I don't know how accurate this method of measuring is and I don't have a professionally calibrated SPL meter to reference. Feel free to draw your own conclusions or suggest a better way to go about taking these kinds of measurements.

I know that everyone wants measurements but lets be real about this. You made a cool DIY project and you seem to be enjoying it,
leave it at that and have fun with your system.



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The perfect setting for things to come......

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post #299 of 330 Old 12-14-2007, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
btp
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Let's be real about what?

Don't worry... I don't need a graph that says "120 dB" to reassure me the subs are working well and shaking the entire house.

Discussing measurement data or techniques in no way detracts from my enjoyment of the subs. Makes it more fun, actually, because the discussions and debates usually lead to greater knowledge and deeper understanding in the end.

Signature Challenged.
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post #300 of 330 Old 12-14-2007, 03:26 PM
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Great job, that is impressive.

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