Ebony and Ivory, dual 18" LMS-5400 Endtables Completed - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 56 Old 11-09-2007, 01:48 AM
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I always liked the black best myself, the titanium looked too flashy, like something that belongs in a hatchback.
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post #32 of 56 Old 11-09-2007, 05:42 AM - Thread Starter
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The black definitely dissappears more easily in most situations...if that is what you are after. I just wish they would have offered the black coating on the Ti cone.

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post #33 of 56 Old 11-09-2007, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

I ended up with one titanium cone and one black aluminum. I wish I could have gotten a second titanium cone. Man, it is definitely several times stiffer than the aluminum version, nearly indestructable in comparison.

When did TC Sounds make an LMS with a black aluminium cone? I mean weren't those last ones black powder coated titanium cones?
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post #34 of 56 Old 11-09-2007, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Mayer View Post

When did TC Sounds make an LMS with a black aluminium cone? I mean weren't those last ones black powder coated titanium cones?

I am not exactly sure Richard. I think they originally went from Al to Ti, then because of flaws went to powder coated Ti, then ultimately to Al again. I am not sure of how it all unfolded. But, it seems most thing TC related are a mystery.

One thing I do know for sure is that when I had both drivers out side by side, I pressed on the cone from the back side with my finger and I could easily move the entire Ti cone and could not see any deformation on the front regardless of how hard I pressed. On the black cone, I could actually reverse dent the cone by pushing on it with some force. Nowhere near the strength and rigidity. I guess it is possible that it was just thinner or something.

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post #35 of 56 Old 11-09-2007, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

I am not exactly sure Richard. I think they originally went from Al to Ti, then because of flaws went to powder coated Ti, then ultimately to Al again. I am not sure of how it all unfolded. But, it seems most thing TC related are a mystery.

One thing I do know for sure is that when I had both drivers out side by side, I pressed on the cone from the back side with my finger and I could easily move the entire Ti cone and could not see any deformation on the front regardless of how hard I pressed. On the black cone, I could actually reverse dent the cone by pushing on it with some force. Nowhere near the strength and rigidity. I guess it is possible that it was just thinner or something.

No no, that sounds like aluminium. I just didn't know such things were ever made. I'm thinking there might not be many of those...
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post #36 of 56 Old 11-09-2007, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
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No no, that sounds like aluminium. I just didn't know such things were ever made. I'm thinking there might not be many of those...

Maybe I will contact Kyle for some clarification.

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post #37 of 56 Old 11-09-2007, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

Maybe I will contact Kyle for some clarification.

I was thinking the same thing Richard was. I didnt know they ever went to Al from Ti.
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post #38 of 56 Old 11-09-2007, 08:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Willd View Post

I was thinking the same thing Richard was. I didnt know they ever went to Al from Ti.

Of course, I could easily be wrong. Perhaps I was just seeing the differences in flex due to the color and/or lighting/reflectivity. But, they sure seemed very different to me, so I dunno.

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post #39 of 56 Old 11-09-2007, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

Of course, I could easily be wrong. Perhaps I was just seeing the differences in flex due to the color and/or lighting/reflectivity. But, they sure seemed very different to me, so I dunno.

Nah, from what you say you sound dead on.
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post #40 of 56 Old 11-09-2007, 08:48 PM
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So were the actual CONES made from Ti and Al or just the dustcaps?
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post #41 of 56 Old 11-09-2007, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armystud0911 View Post

So were the actual CONES made from Ti and Al or just the dustcaps?

The Ti cones were one piece design. I am not sure of all the details on the Al cones, but I think they were one piece as well.

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post #42 of 56 Old 11-09-2007, 11:26 PM
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dual sealed enclosures. 5.7 cu ft each from what I racall. A crown K2 on each.
I realize that they are a bit underpowered but it's probably more than ample for my 13' x 19' room .

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post #43 of 56 Old 11-10-2007, 06:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allanf714 View Post

dual sealed enclosures. 5.7 cu ft each from what I racall. A crown K2 on each.
I realize that they are a bit underpowered but it's probably more than ample for my 13' x 19' room .

Allan

Nice Allan!

My room is about the same size. I know where you are coming from.

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post #44 of 56 Old 11-10-2007, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I FINALLY got around to getting REW fired up, geez.

It is very interesting software, very powerful too.

Here is my first ever measurement, after the SMS EQ.


Talk about a house curve!

Whoa, serious low end boost there. I am not sure how accurate the digital RS meter and associate calibration file is. But, you can defintiely see the HPF in place at 15Hz.

Time permitting, I am going to tweak the SMS filters to see what happens in comparison, Fun!


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post #45 of 56 Old 11-10-2007, 09:26 AM
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So, with those rollers on do they like to walk about a bit...?

Looks like a nice curve there buddy... I'd like to see a screen shot of your SMS.

Looks like you might have boosted the low end, to account for the rolloff..?
Cool Beans buddy...
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post #46 of 56 Old 11-10-2007, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

So, with those rollers on do they like to walk about a bit...?

Looks like a nice curve there buddy... I'd like to see a screen shot of your SMS.

Looks like you might have boosted the low end, to account for the rolloff..?
Cool Beans buddy...

The measurement was taken right after getting the second sub online. Also, the enclosures are over 5 cubes now, the single sub was ~3.8 or so.

So, there is roughly 3-4db above normal gain showing up from doubling everything and the larger enclosures. Yes, I now have a 3db boost at 20 Hz and 9 db at 15Hz via the SMS-1.

Should be less after new firmware is released eliminating most of the rolloff, especially below 20. I am guessing I will need ~3db less of low end EQ after that.

If I get a moment later I will fire up the digital camera and hit the SMS...

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post #47 of 56 Old 11-10-2007, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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BTW, no they don't walk at all. They weigh over 200 lbs. a piece so, once they sit for a couple of seconds they sink in nicely.

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post #48 of 56 Old 11-10-2007, 04:41 PM
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Nice good wood work! I bet they sound great!

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----Check my QUAD 18" Fi IB Build Thread!! (DONE) King of the 400 lb Gorilla
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post #49 of 56 Old 11-10-2007, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Nice good wood work! I bet they sound great!

Thanks Dave!

Yes, they sure are smooth. I think at this point my next upgrade has to be a new house. I simply need a bigger and better room for any better HT and corresponding subwoofer placement.

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post #50 of 56 Old 11-11-2007, 07:32 AM
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Im curious to see how your FR graph is without the ability to phase, and how much that will change with the implementation or ability to do so....
I am really in the same boat as you, finding the right solution with DIY subs.
Hopefully that H@lf box unit can get on its feet... running it inline after the SMS (with firmware fix) 1 for each sub... might be a great solution... $40 - $50 each..

Guess we have to wait to see how it all plays out..
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post #51 of 56 Old 11-11-2007, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Im curious to see how your FR graph is without the ability to phase, and how much that will change with the implementation or ability to do so....
I am really in the same boat as you, finding the right solution with DIY subs.
Hopefully that H@lf box unit can get on its feet... running it inline after the SMS (with firmware fix) 1 for each sub... might be a great solution... $40 - $50 each..

Guess we have to wait to see how it all plays out..

I was also concerned about phasing before I started the dual setup. I knew going into it that I probably would not or could not place them together.

I did get a chance to run though the SMS setup again, but I did not take any pictures. Basically, the response seem smoother in some areas and in other areas the peaks and troughs are much more exagerated.

Prior to adding the second sub, I really only applied the boost to the low end everything else was not worth fixing a db or two. After adding the second sub, the main seating position is still fairly good, but off to the side there is a huge peak at around 45 Hz and huge null around 80 Hz. That is kind of a bummer. I just kind of averaged things out to make it respectable in all areas.

Adding a second (non colocated) sub definitely ratchets up the complexity in tuning. I am guessing it would be easier with independent phase control, but I don't have enough experience in that regard.

I am very close to pulling the trigger on a DEQ, but like you said there are other products coming down the pike shortly so maybe one will do the trick...

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post #52 of 56 Old 03-24-2013, 01:22 PM
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This is exactly what I want to do. Too bad there isn't any plans or pics of the process

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post #53 of 56 Old 03-25-2013, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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This is exactly what I want to do. Too bad there isn't any plans or pics of the process

It is really pretty simple. Just build the enclosure to the desired dimensions out of ply or mdf or whatever, them add your legs and top. If you use Baltic birch or oak veneer ply you can just stain the large surfaces eliminating the need for veneering later.

Mine are oak ply with 1x4 solid oak legs and edging with 1/4 x 3 strips for accents.

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post #54 of 56 Old 03-25-2013, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

It is really pretty simple. Just build the enclosure to the desired dimensions out of ply or mdf or whatever, them add your legs and top. If you use Baltic birch or oak veneer ply you can just stain the large surfaces eliminating the need for veneering later.

Mine are oak ply with 1x4 solid oak legs and edging with 1/4 x 3 strips for accents.

Thanks. By "Oak Ply" you mean plywood or thin wood to use as a veneer? I now see how you've done the tops, by 'picture framing' the top. I plan to use MDF.

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post #55 of 56 Old 03-26-2013, 05:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CleatusCat View Post

Thanks. By "Oak Ply" you mean plywood or thin wood to use as a veneer? I now see how you've done the tops, by 'picture framing' the top. I plan to use MDF.

Yes, correct.

The top is oak ply trimmed in solid 1 x 4s.

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post #56 of 56 Old 03-26-2013, 05:58 AM - Thread Starter
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You could always use the 1/4" strips for veneer as well. They are reasonably price and can be glued together to make large sheets. I think our home store had panels up to 12 inches wide.

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