Four 18" Fi IB Woofer Build Thread - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 12-25-2007, 05:52 AM
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good results and congrats Nick. Now, how about seting up REW and getting some measurements done on this thing?
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Old 12-25-2007, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Thomas-W View Post

Hehe...

Thomas, you are the man, thanks for putting up with all my questions and constant new changes to the path I ultimately chose. This thing is outstanding!!!

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-25-2007, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by v1rtu0s1ty View Post

I'm so glad with your review you wrote above. I can't wait to do mine. I still have lots of things to purchase and build. I still don't have an amp yet and I was planning to buy EP2500 because that's what I saw before on some threads at CIB. Why did you go with plx3602?

Thanks and CONGRATULATIONS!

I went with the plx3602 to get my headroom with my previous sytem. The ep2500 just didn't have the azz do push my previous DIY setup when crossed over at 80hz, the purchase of the plx3602 fixed that and then some. Now, that amp when used with 4 of these IB 18s is simply hilarious!!! The amp used to hit the high speed fan all the time during loud music playback (and I like it loud) or during heavy action in Transformers at reference levels with the DIY system but now the variable speed fan never moves off idle with the IB

I watched Live Fast or Die Hard last night and it was pretty wild, tons of low low frequency in that movie, some definately below human hearing!

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-25-2007, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Avus_M3 View Post

Man, after doing some serious serious thinking I am having doubts about my switch from designing an IB to a LLT. I was tired of waiting for Fi and pulled the trigger on the SS RL-18's. Instead of 4 Fi's I went with 2 SS's for the LLT's.

Anyways, we are somewhat rearranging our living room and I am having doubts if I want to build 2 six foot high 30" diameter tubes?!?!?! I just sold my DLP and went with a Pio plasma so we can change the existing layout and after talking with the wifey the other day she asked me if I could still go with the IB. The more I think about it the more I think I should. Have a nice clean living room layout AND monster bass!

Think 2 RL-P18's could handle a 15 X 22 with vaulted ceilings (I put about 13ft as the average height) that opens into the kitchen/breakfast area??? I need some clean nutty bass!!! Maybe I should sell the RL's and pick up 4 IQ's or maybe just try rocking out the RL's and see? Damn Damn Damn Damn what to do!

Honestly I'm pretty nutty with everything. I purchased a 97 dodge diesel truck to turn it into a 6500lb 11 second quarter mile daily driver so understand that i'm a pretty excessive over the top kind of person! This four 18" ib system is flat out excessive if turned up too much. Obviously it has the benefit of being able to be turned down to blend in and not destroy my home but what i'm getting at here is the two 18s in an IB configuration may be all you need. Hell, the money you save in the finishing efforts with the IB you may be able to re-direct into more woofage if you don't think two 18s is enough. I honestly can't recommend the LLT route after having owned both. I'm sure the LLT with four 18s would be louder but that is of pure uselesness to me considering the four 18s in the IB is far more capable of destroying my home then i'd like to think. So to get that added worthless out put (in my situation not in all situations) you sacrifice SQ, speed, depth, AND THE FACT THAT IT DOESN'T TAKE UP ANY LIVING SPACE! It just seems like an easy answer to me, this is all if your living situation allows itself to include an IB (you own your home, you have adequate back wave containment options, etc.).

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-25-2007, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ssabripo View Post

good results and congrats Nick. Now, how about seting up REW and getting some measurements done on this thing?

I use a SMS1 with the latest software to prevent distortion issues and roll off. The curve was pretty flat un eq'd but I had dips at 60ish hertz and a big peak around 25-35 hz. They have since been removed with the SMS1.

Since i've eq'd I'm even more ecstatic!!! Viny Paul (panteras drummer) is now in my living room! Chevelle's bass guitartist brings me beer from the refrigirator while he plays in front of my projection screen and jams away to Still Running! UNDERSTAND THIS IS THE KIND OF PERFORMANCE I'VE BEEN SEARCHING FOR EVERY SINCE I'VE BEEN INTO THE HOME STEREO GAME FOR MY HOME!!!

Anyone who says IBs don't have slam needs more power and or EQing trust me. This thing just embarasses my previous setup which I was totally happy with for the most part!

Since EQing the infrasonics have become more apparent on movies as well. I'm sure this is because I flattened out the 25-35hz peak which made the other lower frequencies become more aparent.

If you guys like I could try to snap a picture of my EQ curve presented by the SMS1 on the projector. Just let me know.

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-25-2007, 09:37 AM
 
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So you like it I gather.
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Old 12-25-2007, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avus_M3 View Post

Man, after doing some serious serious thinking I am having doubts about my switch from designing an IB to a LLT. I was tired of waiting for Fi and pulled the trigger on the SS RL-18's. Instead of 4 Fi's I went with 2 SS's for the LLT's.

Think 2 RL-P18's could handle a 15 X 22 with vaulted ceilings (I put about 13ft as the average height) that opens into the kitchen/breakfast area??? I need some clean nutty bass!!! Maybe I should sell the RL's and pick up 4 IQ's or maybe just try rocking out the RL's and see? Damn Damn Damn Damn what to do!

Build a manifold that will hold 4-18"s and cap off the unused openings. Install your 2 RL-p18"s. Since they're one of the 'bottomless' designs you can run them and see if they have enough output for your needs/wants. If not sell them and buy the Fi IB drivers since they're much less expensive than getting another pair of RL-p 18"S
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Old 12-25-2007, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Max Lomax View Post

So you like it I gather.

Now what would give you that impression

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-25-2007, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Thomas-W View Post

Build a manifold that will hold 4-18"s and cap off the unused openings. Install your 2 RL-p18"s. Since they're one of the 'bottomless' designs you can run them and see if they have enough output for your needs/wants. If not sell them and buy the Fi IB drivers since they're much less expensive than getting another pair of RL-p 18"S

That's the plan. I already have my amp if you have seen my thread. I bought a Crown CE4000.

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Old 12-25-2007, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by NickTF View Post

So to get that added worthless out put (in my situation not in all situations) you sacrifice SQ, speed, depth, AND THE FACT THAT IT DOESN'T TAKE UP ANY LIVING SPACE!

Oh, come on. You make it sound like LLT is grossly inferior to IB in every way. Each approach has its pros and cons. IB isn't exactly guaranteed, instant success. Maybe you'll get the results you want, maybe you won't. If you wind up with a huge dip in your FR due to the room and/or driver placement, there's not much you can (easily) do about it. You can't EQ your way out of a -25 dB hole.

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Old 12-25-2007, 10:37 PM
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So I'm curious... I've never hear anyone elses IB but mine and I wonder if the results are the same. I have 8 15" woofers driven by 125 watts each (guess that's 1kw). It is incredible. I makes my vision blurry because it shakes my body faster than my eyes can track... like you're in a giant paint can shaker. My inner ear gets rattled and I get disoriented. It drives the air in and out of my lungs. It feels like a physical assault. It can be very alarming. Guests were frightened during the earthquake in Ocean's 13. They had no idea an audio system could do that. Is this what IB people are ending up with?

Edit: I think 2 15 inchers have equivalent cone area to a single 18 incher, so I should have the same air movement as you. I had to fit them between 16" studs. Also, mine's not a manifold like yours, it's a linear array along the floor.
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Old 12-26-2007, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by btp View Post

Oh, come on. You make it sound like LLT is grossly inferior to IB in every way. Each approach has its pros and cons. IB isn't exactly guaranteed, instant success. Maybe you'll get the results you want, maybe you won't. If you wind up with a huge dip in your FR due to the room and/or driver placement, there's not much you can (easily) do about it. You can't EQ your way out of a -25 dB hole.

No, I wouldn't say that. It's not just the IB vs. LLT that makes it inferior in my situation, it was the fact that I went from the surface area of two 15s to four 18s which obviously have a huge displacement advantage when you also factor in the IB woofers have 2mm more of xmax. Ofcourse my LLT setup displaced quite a bit of air at it's tuning (20hz) but it just didn't have the impact, clarity, etc. this IB has. It's not just because of the new IB alignment, but because of the obvious added woofage requiring far less of my IB to produce similar or greater spl!!! Hey man, if you have to use a box in your setup which is in your room I can't really argue against a LLT setup but if you have the option of IB and aren't the best when it comes to finishing/woodworking (which is me to the t) then the IB is the only choice in my "OPINION".

In my situation I had quite alot of money invested in my DIY LLT setup because I didn't construct the boxes and went the more expensive passive radiator way (vs. the equal and much cheaper ported method). When I started saying to myself "you know I could sell my LLT setup and go with a IB setup of far more displacment and it's out of the room etc. while not loosing any money out of my pocket" it was just simply a no brainer!

I would never take away from LLT, I think it's cool too

And you are very right about room placement. I don't think placing an IB in a non-optimal point in the room will fix any nulls/peaks that a LLT had in that same spot. I tested my placement options, at the suggestion of Thomas, with my LLT before choosing my IB spot.

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-26-2007, 06:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post

So I'm curious... I've never hear anyone elses IB but mine and I wonder if the results are the same. I have 8 15" woofers driven by 125 watts each (guess that's 1kw). It is incredible. I makes my vision blurry because it shakes my body faster than my eyes can track... like you're in a giant paint can shaker. My inner ear gets rattled and I get disoriented. It drives the air in and out of my lungs. It feels like a physical assault. It can be very alarming. Guests were frightened during the earthquake in Ocean's 13. They had no idea an audio system could do that. Is this what IB people are ending up with?

Edit: I think 2 15 inchers have equivalent cone area to a single 18 incher, so I should have the same air movement as you. I had to fit them between 16" studs. Also, mine's not a manifold like yours, it's a linear array along the floor.


You certainly have more cone area then I do but not sure about displacement because I don't know your drivers xmax and if they can reach it with 125 watts a piece.

I'm just guessing here but it seems that higher frequencies (say 50hz and above just to pick a number) are more impacted by the added cone area vs. cone area and xmax. What i'm getting at is that 4 15 woofers with the same power and only say 10mm of xmax may in fact be louder at 50hz and up vs. similar power through two 18" woofers and 20mm of xmax because xmax isn't really the limiting/end all be all at those higher frequencies. I read another post on hear where a reply indicated this and in thinking about it logically it makes sense. If not concerts would have 8 50mm xmax super woofers instead of 24 or whatever much smaller xmax woofers!!!

In any event that's a killer setup that you have there. I bet with 8 15s in a line array there is some serious serious serious shaking going on there, ha ha

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-26-2007, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by NickTF View Post

You certainly have more cone area then I do but not sure about displacement because I don't know your drivers xmax and if they can reach it with 125 watts a piece.

My drivers? Now that's the funny part. I'm a vintage audio collector and they are Altec VOT 416-8C's! I may replace them eventually, but they do way better than I thought they would. I don't know what the xmax is, but I've never heard them bottom out in the IB.
Quote:
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I'm just guessing here but it seems that higher frequencies (say 50hz and above just to pick a number) are more impacted by the added cone area vs. cone area and xmax. What i'm getting at is that 4 15 woofers with the same power and only say 10mm of xmax may in fact be louder at 50hz and up vs. similar power through two 18" woofers and 20mm of xmax because xmax isn't really the limiting/end all be all at those higher frequencies. I read another post on hear where a reply indicated this and in thinking about it logically it makes sense. If not concerts would have 8 50mm xmax super woofers instead of 24 or whatever much smaller xmax woofers!!!
:

Yes, it's always better to have more area and give up the corresponding xmax to get it because you are ultimately trying to couple the drivers with the room as efficiently as possible. Room corners help with this too as does placing the drivers as close together as possible. The real couplers are horns but a 20Hz horn is pretty impracticle! Besides, I want 5Hz response.
[/quote]
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In any event that's a killer setup that you have there. I bet with 8 15s in a line array there is some serious serious serious shaking going on there, ha ha

Yes indeed. Shakers? We don't need no stinkin' shakers!
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Old 12-26-2007, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes indeed. Shakers? We don't need no stinkin' shakers!

Ha, no doubt about that. That new Die Hard movie was rediculous on the shaking! Hell, the shakers would probably take away from how much these things shake my couch, table, and house!!! It's wild too cause I put my hands on the manifold boxes to see if they are shaking but they are not so it seems it's all sound pressure

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-26-2007, 09:41 AM
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I put my hands on the manifold boxes to see if they are shaking but they are not so it seems it's all sound pressure

That's excellent... just the result you want from a manifold design. Your hard work paid off. I was too lazy to do manifolds.
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Old 12-27-2007, 05:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I continue to be amazed!!! I watched Matrix Reloaded last night on Max HD and the sound was simply unbelievable again. I had my first "virbrated off the table" casualty though, ha. I need to keep a close eye on things when jamming now. My buddy chris (guy who helped me install the IB) stopped by to watch it with me. His drink bottle was wobbling back and forth on the living room table!!! Keep in mind that table weighs about 150lbs lol. The only thing that sounds taxed in my system now is my house, ha ha. Looks like i'm going to have to take apart a light fixture or two to apply some sound deadening techniques!

I think the effect that stood out the most in my mind was when Morpheus's ship was hit with the bomb from the sentinel! Lots of low frequency information in that scene for sure!

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-27-2007, 10:50 AM
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Did your buddies draw drop?

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Old 12-28-2007, 02:55 PM
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What kind of sound/vibration is being generated in the rest of the house when you watch something?

Could someone be sleeping comfortably in a bedroom while the sonic assault is going on in the theater room?

My perpetual home theater build - Omaha Theater #5
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Old 12-28-2007, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by nebrunner View Post

What kind of sound/vibration is being generated in the rest of the house when you watch something?

Could someone be sleeping comfortably in a bedroom while the sonic assault is going on in the theater room?

Not even close. Not even in the next HOUSE. I'm fortunate that I live on 10 acres. Even Green Gluing the walls wouldn't help with an IB. You'd have to GG the room the IB vents into also! Watching movies has to be a whole-house family affair.
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Old 12-28-2007, 03:18 PM
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Awesome. I have someone locally picking up my RL's tonight so I can buy 4 of the Fi IB's. Do you think if I mounted the manifold in the garage that the garage door, tools, etc would rattle like a SOB and be audible from inside? That's my main concern especially with a metal garage door.

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Old 12-28-2007, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Avus_M3 View Post

Awesome. I have someone locally picking up my RL's tonight so I can buy 4 of the Fi IB's. Do you think if I mounted the manifold in the garage that the garage door, tools, etc would rattle like a SOB and be audible from inside? That's my main concern especially with a metal garage door.

With me it's the dishes in the kitchen. But I only hear them if I run the subs by themselves. Chances are good that there's so much other sound in the movie at a heavy bass point that outside rattles are masked. At least that's the way it works for me.
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Old 12-28-2007, 04:01 PM
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Old 12-28-2007, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by nebrunner View Post

Could someone be sleeping comfortably in a bedroom while the sonic assault is going on in the theater room?

Depends on the installation. Neither of 2 IBs operating in my house would bother anyone sleeping.
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Old 12-29-2007, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Ha ha, no way you are doing anything else that requires silence in my house while watching a movie, but this was true of my box subs too. There's just so much output it's not going to matter weather the back wave is in the room to via a ported/radiator system or if the backwave is in my crawlspace.

Mine is not loud outside at all but this will be house specifice. My backwave containment is in my crawlspace which is fully conditioned/insulated. My home has much higher R rating insulation that what my county requires to that also helps eliminate sounds from coming outside through the interior as well so annoying the neighbors is not that much of an issue for me. Like I said though, if you have an older home with much less stringent insulation/sealing then it will probably be much more of an issue for you.

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-29-2007, 12:32 PM
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if you have an older home with much less stringent insulation/sealing then it will probably be much more of an issue for you.

My home is brand new (just got the occupancy permit 2 weeks ago) and I used higher R value insulation too. But those bass waves come right through the doors, even solid-core doors.
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I finally got around to snapping the pictures of everything in it's final or 98% final state so enjoy. Been nothing but happy and still amazed about how wonderful this IB truly is









Also closed off the bottom portion of the equipment stand with a piece of silk that closely matches the Def Tech BP20's black sock to hide the wire mess! The coverings are from a company called Wood Grates!








29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:36 PM
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Congrats,

This one solid IB setup.

I am more and more interested in bulding an IB sub.

Looks like these drivers offer tremendous performance for the dollar !

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Congrats,

This one solid IB setup.

I am more and more interested in bulding an IB sub.

Looks like these drivers offer tremendous performance for the dollar !

18" 30mm xmax for $199 (when purchasing 4 or more) is hard to beat. My house would be much happier with only two trust me

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 02-07-2008, 02:15 PM
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18" 30mm xmax for $199 (when purchasing 4 or more) is hard to beat. My house would be much happier with only two trust me


What $199 ...under $800 for FOUR ! WOW This is dirt cheap. WOW

I contacted Fi Car Audio...me wants woofa. If I ever have internal bleeding you know the cause.

WOW

Fi Car Audio here I come....

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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