Four 18" Fi IB Woofer Build Thread - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 12-16-2007, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Well guys construction started last weekend and as of this weekend I've managed to:
1. Cut out and laminate the .75" MDF to 23/32" OSB making the baffles, the sides, and the bottoms.
2. Cut out the two holes for each of the pair of manifolds. Each manifold will consist of two 18s one firing at the other. The opening into the room is roughly 22" x 13 3/4" for each. As you can see from the pics a water pipe prevented my original intention of mounting the woofers in the center of the room in one manifold. I'm sure I could have used an elbow to turn down the water pipe but no thanks, that's just asking for trouble if you ask me.

I have an appointment with a cabinet maker this Monday for him to use his router to cut out the holes for the woofers. I am not really interested in buying a router and circle jig considering I probably will never use it again so I figured that's the best way to go. Unfortunately I was a bit retarded in construction of the first baffle and didn't think to keep the nails out of the way of the circle that needs to be cut. Me and the cabinet guy should have a blast with that one, ha. If we can't get it to work I will just create another baffle.

My plans are to actually build the boxes piece by piece under the crawlspace. With the way the TJI joists are it will be easier that way. I thought about taking two .5" pieces of plywood or OSB and making the TJIs like a normal joist and putting the box up to the bottom like most do but decided against it. It shouldn't be that hard with a buddy and two mechanical jacks that don't sink over time like hydraulics. I planned to mount each baffle board in between my floor joists and then use liquid nails, nails, and screws to fasten the baffles to the inside of the TJI top and bottom pieces (figured on using nails to fasten them in place quickly then drill and screw them into place permanently. I will use the mechanical jacks to give them support on top of what the nails and screws offer till the liquid nails has ample time to set. Once the liquid nails is set and the two baffles are in place the sides and bottom will be fastened on the same way. Finally, I plan to wedge a few 2 x 6s under each manifold to give the hoists a little relief in supporting this weight (estimated to be 120lbs in each enclosure).

Considering the baffles are only 23" wide I'm quite sure there will be no flex at all in this 1.5" total thickness baffle face. Further, the sides and bottom are the same laminated construction so I would think they'd only go to help the rigidity. Hell, if the house falls down (and it's possible from 29 liter of displacement and around 3600 watts, ha ha) these enclosures may be the only thing left.

As you can see the crawlspace is completely conditions which is why I chose this area. The holes in my floors right now have air coming from the crawlspace right now that's the exact same temperature as the interior of my home. Simply a no brainer in back wave containment choice!

Well all this being said feel free to comment. Pics are below.

I simply can't wait to get this up and running. It's funny looking at these four 18" woofers with their rather large surrounds and 30mm xmax and thinking "hmmm, is this a bit on the side of overkill" ha ha.

Once again one can see why I chose this back wave containment area, the entrance is right in my finished garage!



More of my handy dandy redneck body builder clamping system, ha ha. I imagine between the nails and the 150 lbs on top this should be sufficient. Comment if you think otherwise though.



Side shot of the side pieces. The bottoms and baffles were constructed the same way! Construction includes a spread of Titebond II on both the OSB mating face and the MDF mating face. The boards were then laid on top of each other and held as I drove in the 1.5" long nails (quite difficult to hold until the first nail is driven in as the boards want to slide all over the place!!!). After nailing about 30 nails in each the baffles were placed on my garage slab, hammered all over including over the nails again with a sledge hammer, and then placed under the weights.



Just a shot in the crawlspace from the left opening.



The offending water pipe!



The big mess I made!



More mess!



All cleaned up now! I will be seeking some fancy cover solutions for the two openings in the floor. My mother is an interior decorator and has some ideas but any suggestions from my follow IBers are appreciated! I'm not interested in cold air returns, I want something along the lines of a nice wooden register accept larger to cover the 13" x 22" hole. Each one of the openings yields about 1845 square centimeters which is a bit less then the 2420 which would be required for no effects on sound quality. Judging by my previous posts and Thomas's replies I'm guessing this won't have any noticeable impact on sound quality.


29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-16-2007, 04:39 PM
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oh man, those drivers look great! they have the same face and basket as the avalanche drivers
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Old 12-16-2007, 05:46 PM
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That looks great Nick. I can't wait to hear your listening impressions.
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Old 12-17-2007, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffstgermaine View Post

That looks great Nick. I can't wait to hear your listening impressions.

Ha, I can't wait to give them. Will be hard to not use the system until all the liquid nailz has setup!!!

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-18-2007, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Well just got back the baffles from the router guy. Unfortunately because of my stupidity the router hit a nail in one of the baffles and went crazy. He came up with a custom solution by using some oak pieces to create a face for the front of the woofer to mait to and it fits pretty damn snug. Now there is some minimal space (about 1/16" - 1/32") between the OD of the woofer gasket and the inset groove so I'm thinking a nice thick bead of silicone should close that gap in this piece. All the other pieces came out perfect for mounting of the woofers from the back. I will be using oak straps that he supplied as well to fasten the woofers from the back.








29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-19-2007, 04:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Well here are some pics of the straps i'm using to mount the woofers, a total of seven on each. I only got one done last night because I did not have the 100% true fit philips bit for the screws I was using and was getting a bit tired of the bit popping out of the screws. Hope to get the rest fastened to the baffles tonight if I have some time. Plan to build the boxes in place this weekend!!! The straps are isolated from the woofer gasket with foam weather stripping to isolate and also provide additional clamping force.








29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-20-2007, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Kudos to Scott! Woofers are pretty damn tuff! I tested them in 2 ohm stereo (just two at a time) on my plx3602 and they never really bottomed out with even the lights on the amp clipping part of that may be the high crossover I was using internal to the amp just for testing which was 100hz and i'm guessing a shallow slope. that's 1800 watts into each!!!

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-20-2007, 07:59 AM
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That is VERY impressive if what you are saying is true, I thought these woofers hard bottomed at xmax, there must be more to the design, because anything this efficient is going to hard bottom HARD when you are pushing 1800watts to it in free air and it has no additional xmech.
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Old 12-20-2007, 08:01 AM
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Wow, ya, that hardly seems possible.

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Old 12-20-2007, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTF View Post

that's 1800 watts into each!!!

You have a dedicated 30 amp line? That's impressive...
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Old 12-20-2007, 08:07 AM
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Actually, pretty much any woofer PERIOD will hard bottom in free air with 1800watts, of course, this all really depends on what frequency the amp was clipping at also how much power the amp puts out at the frequency. Those PLX amps are high frequency BEASTS but don't put out their spec'd power down, low, probably still at least 1000watts per channel though, and even an LMS can be bottomed with less power than that in free air.
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Old 12-20-2007, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cixelsid View Post

You have a dedicated 30 amp line? That's impressive...

He doesn't need a 30 amp line to run 1800 watts into each woofer, amps can store plenty of power for a short burst in their caps so they don't have to cause a huge spike in their power draw, even if they do, most breakers can handle a decent spike for several seconds before tripping. If you were to test the power consumed by your circuit when turn a powerful vacuum on, you would see that it can pull far more juice in that first second or two than it is rated for.
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Old 12-20-2007, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Well in any event I noticed no bottoming and the woofers were just tested on the floor of my house. The manual sais the amp needs 18 amps at 1/8th power (pink noise) which I copied QSC's description of below. I have a 20 amp circuit for it which would suggest that it's producing all the clean output it can I would think. While i'm sure it's not exactly 1800 watts at the 100hz and lower frequencies it's still well over the 600 watt rating that Scott gives them.

"Current draw at 1/8 of full power is measured with pink
noise as a signal. It approximates operating with music or
voice with light clipping and repesents the amplifier's
typical "clean" maximum level, without audible clipping.
Use these figures for typical maximum level operation."

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-20-2007, 10:46 AM
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What were you running through them? Music, test tones, recently remastered and re-released Boy George tracks?
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Old 12-21-2007, 05:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

What were you running through them? Music, test tones, recently remastered and re-released Boy George tracks?

Hey look man Boy George nocks alright, ha.

Nah, I actually just threw in a party cd one of my boys made for me for a previous party. The King Kong song was the one used mostly for testing, some real real viscious low frequency content in that song.

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-21-2007, 08:05 AM
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Ahh, that makes sense, its more a testament to their ability to handle high power, not so much their overexcursion protection, that song prolly doesn't much high level content below 40Hz or so, which is still super deep for music.
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Old 12-21-2007, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armystud0911 View Post

Ahh, that makes sense, its more a testament to their ability to handle high power, not so much their overexcursion protection, that song prolly doesn't much high level content below 40Hz or so, which is still super deep for music.

No, it definately does. Alot of rap songs from certain individuals have stuff well below 40hz. Old Master P stuff was notorious for this as well as some others. Also, Bubba Sparks had a song I can't think of right off the top of my head that's gotta be right at 20hz. If I had to guess the note that's the lowest on the king king song is in the 30-25hz range. Still good enough to bottom the woofer with that kind of power I'd think. With 30mm listed as the xmax I think it's about 2.4" peak to peak that equals too and the woofer was definately traveling that far!!!

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-21-2007, 02:34 PM
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When are you mounting them in? I would love to hear your impression of them.

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----Check my QUAD 18" Fi IB Build Thread!! (DONE) King of the 400 lb Gorilla
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Old 12-21-2007, 03:14 PM
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do you plan to have them done this weekend? Are you going to run all 4 off of the same amp or will you be getting another?
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Old 12-24-2007, 06:21 AM - Thread Starter
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HOLY MOTHER OF GOD THIS IS THE MOST AMAZING THING I'VE EVER HEARD IN A HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :P :P :P :P :P
If you can't tell I’m incredibly excited, ha ha

I have not yet equalized anything and the sound produced by these 4 18" woofers is beyond phenomenal. I've been searching from something that is able to both give me the details of bass guitars and harmonics generated by rhythm guitars while being able to produce infrasonics, kick drums, etc., all at terrifying levels with amazing clarity, and I've finally found it. The clarity is unreal, but not as unreal as the weight and quality of the bass. SPL? TOO DAMN MUCH FOR MY HOUSE!!!!!!!! Watching transformers is now an exercise in brutality, but not at all overbearing like my previous high quality DIY box setup, like things are really really happening and creating natural sounds in my living room. My DIY setup was impressive, this IB setup is 4 times as tactile as it was and understand that the DIY box setup moved about 3 times as much air as a velodyne 18" model at 20hz (tuning of the DIY setup). The IB is louder, cleaner, and realer. I honestly just can't describe it but being all the hard work that went into it I was simply ecstatic to hear the results!

Building the box in place under the crawl space wasn't too bad but I'd suggest if you're not a bigger guy and have a bigger friend at your side that you consider building the box outside (I’m about 200lbs and so is my buddy who helped, made things a lot easier moving around the baffle boards with the woofers in place in the crawlspace). I ended up with some gaps, some as large as 1/4" by building in place and being far from an expert wood worker but having sealed them up with caulk from the inside and outside air is not leaking through these areas. And if it is then it's not anything I’m noticing with the amount of output coming from this system. I did manage to bridge adjacent floor joists also to prevent any horizontal movement in them. Even at higher levels there is almost no vibration in the manifold boxes at all, simply amazing!!! The house however is another story but it seems to be all coming from sound pressure. Pretty much everything moves on every surface of the house when things get cranking, ha ha!!!

Once I EQ this setup and calm down from the overall excitement it's generated I will report back with a more detailed review of the system.

Anyone on the verge of going with anything other then an IB just do yourself a favor and pull the trigger. I just can't imagine doing anything else. Sure you could build a behemoth ported box utilizing four 18" woofers and have even more output but I assure you that you will not be able to use it considering this IB can produce more spl then my new construction very well built home can tolerate!!!! My living room is 22 x 12 but opens up to the entire living area (kitchen, dining room, entrance) to the house and has a 10' vaulted ceiling. I estimate the volume to be around 3000 cubic feet but it's quite a bit more considering the rear opening. My home is very very very well sealed however as it breaths through a hepa filter filtration system, something my home builder does so this may have some influence on my results.

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-24-2007, 06:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armystud0911 View Post

do you plan to have them done this weekend? Are you going to run all 4 off of the same amp or will you be getting another?

Just the plx3602. Trust me, this is all the amp one needs in my setup, the amp does not even hit the high speed mode on the fan any more, it used to all the time with my tc sounds diy setup but doesn't even come close now. This is probably a function of the higher impedence i'm presenting the amp now but i'm thinking it's alot more a function of the added effeciency through heavily increased sd/displacement!

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-24-2007, 07:36 AM
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Nick,

I was wondering what type of sub setup you had previously, I saw someplace where you referenced diy & tc sounds but no specifics.

I am planning my theater now and am considering many different options, and would value your experience/opinion.

Thanks
Dennis
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Old 12-24-2007, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dennisdishman View Post

Nick,

I was wondering what type of sub setup you had previously, I saw someplace where you referenced diy & tc sounds but no specifics.

I am planning my theater now and am considering many different options, and would value your experience/opinion.

Thanks
Dennis

Hey man, no problem. Here is the link for a description of my previous system. It was a very very nice setup, but the IB demolishes it in every possible way. It's out of site, cleaner, deeper, faaaaaaar more consuming and tactile, blends better with the mains, pretty much better in every sense of the word! Only downside is is that it's permanent but in all honestly I could easily just place a panel back in and re-carpet if I ever wanted to take it out (which will not be happening).

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...stem-sale.html

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-24-2007, 10:05 AM
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congrats! I love the excitement, its like a 10 year old on Christmas morning! Im looking at IB for my next system and this certainly helps my desire.
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Old 12-24-2007, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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congrats! I love the excitement, its like a 10 year old on Christmas morning! Im looking at IB for my next system and this certainly helps my desire.

Honestly when I played music I was grinning from ear to ear. When I played the opening scene from transformers when the hellicopter guy turns the army bass into rubble I was laughing hysterically!!!! Do it man, you won't be sorry. For most I honestly think two 18s would be sufficient but I am far from most. Most of my friends would consider me a bit excessive so consider this when reading the above.

29 Litres of Infinite Baffle Bliss. Oh, and the rest of the setup isn't too shabby either!
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Old 12-24-2007, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTF View Post

Just the plx3602. Trust me, this is all the amp one needs in my setup, the amp does not even hit the high speed mode on the fan any more, it used to all the time with my tc sounds diy setup but doesn't even come close now. This is probably a function of the higher impedence i'm presenting the amp now but i'm thinking it's alot more a function of the added effeciency through heavily increased sd/displacement!

I'm so glad with your review you wrote above. I can't wait to do mine. I still have lots of things to purchase and build. I still don't have an amp yet and I was planning to buy EP2500 because that's what I saw before on some threads at CIB. Why did you go with plx3602?

Thanks and CONGRATULATIONS!
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Old 12-24-2007, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTF View Post

It's out of site, cleaner, deeper, faaaaaaar more consuming and tactile, blends better with the mains, pretty much better in every sense of the word!

Hehe...
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Old 12-24-2007, 03:25 PM
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Quote:


It blends better with the mains

you can thank the Fi IB woofer's relatively lower inductance for that!

Congrats on your setup. You made wise choices on the driver and amp!
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Old 12-25-2007, 12:18 AM
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Man, after doing some serious serious thinking I am having doubts about my switch from designing an IB to a LLT. I was tired of waiting for Fi and pulled the trigger on the SS RL-18's. Instead of 4 Fi's I went with 2 SS's for the LLT's.

Anyways, we are somewhat rearranging our living room and I am having doubts if I want to build 2 six foot high 30" diameter tubes?!?!?! I just sold my DLP and went with a Pio plasma so we can change the existing layout and after talking with the wifey the other day she asked me if I could still go with the IB. The more I think about it the more I think I should. Have a nice clean living room layout AND monster bass!

Think 2 RL-P18's could handle a 15 X 22 with vaulted ceilings (I put about 13ft as the average height) that opens into the kitchen/breakfast area??? I need some clean nutty bass!!! Maybe I should sell the RL's and pick up 4 IQ's or maybe just try rocking out the RL's and see? Damn Damn Damn Damn what to do!

-The Dave
----Check my QUAD 18" Fi IB Build Thread!! (DONE) King of the 400 lb Gorilla
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Old 12-25-2007, 12:19 AM
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BTW congrats...glad to hear you are loving them!!! Your response was exactly what kind of results I am looking for.

-The Dave
----Check my QUAD 18" Fi IB Build Thread!! (DONE) King of the 400 lb Gorilla
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