A whole mess of 24" sonotubes cheap...what to do? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 01-05-2008, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay...ran across an ad for a whole bunch of 24" Sonotubes cut to 2' lengths. They are DIRT cheap and there are 18 total. So...what kind of insane Sonotube sub system would you build given this? Initial thoughts were about stacking the lengths to make four 8' tall enclosures and building two 2' tall subs to go in my office as computer subs. Alternative is to make a whole mess of 2' tall subs and stack them all one on top of the other. Drivers, it is a cheap project for fun so the thoughts have been the Dayton Reference 15". Thoughts?

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post #2 of 17 Old 01-05-2008, 10:04 PM
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Go for it. Maybe even use 16 of the tubes and make 4x subs and position them all over the room to get an overall flat response.
Lots of possibilities..

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post #3 of 17 Old 01-05-2008, 10:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Spezzy View Post

Go for it. Maybe even use 16 of the tubes and make 4x subs and position them all over the room to get an overall flat response.
Lots of possibilities..

Not practical. I have plenty of space up behind the screen wall, but putting the subs to the sides/rear won't work with my layout.

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post #4 of 17 Old 01-05-2008, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Soundood View Post

Not practical. I have plenty of space up behind the screen wall, but putting the subs to the sides/rear won't work with my layout.

Ah..
I'd go with the 2x larger subs then. Should be something fun on the side.

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post #5 of 17 Old 01-06-2008, 12:35 AM
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Stacking a bunch of 2' sealed subs using cheap 18" drivers in a couple different spots sounds interesting and could be very promising. With enough displacement on hand, you could EQ whatever response you wanted, and by having drivers from floor to ceiling in 2' increments in a couple different spots, you should be able to really minimize room effects, resulting in a very flat FR. There are the Mach5 MJ18s or the new FiCarAudio 18" IB drivers. How much are you willing to spend on this project?


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post #6 of 17 Old 01-06-2008, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post

There are the Mach5 MJ18s or the new FiCarAudio 18" IB drivers. How much are you willing to spend on this project?

I'm at work and don't have WinISD, but don't the FI 18-IB's have a Q in the mid .6's? In a 24" tall sonotube, the total Q would likely be in the .9's or worse?. You're wanting to rely on eq then?

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post #7 of 17 Old 01-06-2008, 12:15 PM
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One will practically always need to EQ the low end from a sealed sub to resemble anything flat, so I don't see much use in getting caught up with the natural Q of the system. A larger sealed enclosure will get you a flatter down low with less EQ and a little less low end distortion due to less cone resistance and potentially less thermal compression, but if these are major concerns, one wouldn't chose to go sealed in the first place, as lack of flatness down low and high distortion are inevitable with such an alignment. It's a trade of enclosure volume vs power. So in short, yeah, might as well go small and EQ it flat for something like this.

I'm not sure, but I think you can get pretty big discounts from Mach5 if you order multiple drivers. That might be the way to go if you were interested in the stacking floor to ceiling idea.


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post #8 of 17 Old 01-06-2008, 12:58 PM
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One will practically always need to EQ the low end from a sealed sub to resemble anything flat, so I don't see much use in getting caught up with the natural Q of the system.

I do, because all EQing will do is raise the Q of system. Start out with an already abnormally high one and raise it even more? Sounds like a bad idea to me. I doubt the OP wants to LT all of these subs.

Really, an RSS390 per tube would be a good way to go. He'd have a natural F3 of 30hz and be down only 8dB at 20Hz. In plenty of rooms, with 16 of those, he really wouldn't need much EQ to be flat into the teens. Wouldn't need much power either.
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post #9 of 17 Old 01-06-2008, 01:13 PM
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The RS drivers cannot be down fired right?

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post #10 of 17 Old 01-06-2008, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

The RS drivers cannot be down fired right?

They're certainly not ideal for it, but I don't see how that is a problem. 24" long 24" diameter tubes are gonna take up roughly the same space whether they're oriented horizontally or vertically. Since one has to put on endcaps anyway, one could simply design/build endcaps that facilitate stacking the tubes horizontally.

Right?
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post #11 of 17 Old 01-06-2008, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Willd View Post

Really, an RSS390 per tube would be a good way to go. He'd have a natural F3 of 30hz and be down only 8dB at 20Hz. In plenty of rooms, with 16 of those, he really wouldn't need much EQ to be flat into the teens. Wouldn't need much power either.

The type of system I was envisioning was multiple sealed subs stacked from floor to ceiling. With that type of plan, displacement, high sensitivity, and low distortion shouldn't be serious issues - at $160 for the Dayton 15" with only 12mm, it doesn't seem like the greatest bargain to me for this type of project. This would be more like a line array approach. The OP hasn't really commented on what he is wanting to do though, so who knows.

Yeah, the 18" IB driver may not be the best choice - it came to mind because of cheap displacement. Mltiple MJ18s with a discount may be the best option.

As for having to LT all the subs, the summed response would have the LT applied to it (subs stacked vertically), and that would then be fed into one or multiple amps, so whether he uses 1 or 100 subs, implementtion of the LT or EQing shouldn't vary in difficulty. In fact, stacked floor to ceiling, I'd imagine room interaction would be minimized, making things very easy.


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post #12 of 17 Old 01-06-2008, 02:02 PM
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The type of system I was envisioning was multiple sealed subs stacked from floor to ceiling. With that type of plan, displacement, high sensitivity, and low distortion shouldn't be serious issues - at $160 for the Dayton 15" with only 12mm, it doesn't seem like the greatest bargain to me for this type of project. This would be more like a line array approach. The OP hasn't really commented on what he is wanting to do though, so who knows.

Well you're obviously confused. It'd be $152 for the RSS390HF with 14mm of xmax (maybe even less, since PE may offer an even better discount for buying so many) , and only 3mm less xmag than the FiCar 15" IB driver.

And what do you mean a line array approach? Just because the drivers wouldn't be down fired? That is irrelevent...nothing to do with line arrays.

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Yeah, the 18" IB driver may not be the best choice - it came to mind because of cheap displacement. Multiple MJ18s with a discount may be the best option.

I still don't know why people seem to only care about cheap displacement. Why choose a driver simply because it offers cheap displacement since ~16 subs are being used. If we were talking about one or two subs, I'd agree with you...but we're not.

You said it...displacement isn't an issue with so many drivers. So why not choose the driver that has the best motor/distortion profile, and increased bandwidth. Kind of a no brainer...
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post #13 of 17 Old 01-06-2008, 02:06 PM
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Where are these sonotube's found? I gather they are actually made for concrete forms is that correct?
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post #14 of 17 Old 01-06-2008, 02:08 PM
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Where are these sonotube's found? I gather they are actually made for concrete forms is that correct?

They can be found at some construction supply distributors and concrete supply locations. I got mine at Hughes Supply (owned by HD Supply) in downtown Charlotte.
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post #15 of 17 Old 01-06-2008, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Willd View Post

Well you're obviously confused. It'd be $152 for the RSS390HF with 14mm of xmax (maybe even less, since PE may offer an even better discount for buying so many) , and only 3mm less xmag than the FiCar 15" IB driver.

For buying so many? How many would he be buying at $160 / $152? I don't think the FiCar 15" IB was ever mentioned.

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And what do you mean a line array approach? Just because the drivers wouldn't be down fired? That is irrelevent...nothing to do with line arrays.

Who said anything like that? It would be like a line array project in that you wouldn't need the cleanest drivers because the individual demand on each driver would be minimal. I don't see many line arrays using $200+ ScanSpeak drivers.

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I still don't know why people seem to only care about cheap displacement. Why choose a driver simply because it offers cheap displacement since ~16 subs are being used. If we were talking about one or two subs, I'd agree with you...but we're not.

I think you answered your own question at first and then got it backwards at the end. If only using one or two drivers, go for the cleaner one. If using multiples, go for the cheaper ones because the demands on each driver will be very little. If you were building an IB with 12 drivers, would you get 12 LMS 18s or something a little cheaper? Now what about if you could only afford one driver?

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You said it...displacement isn't an issue with so many drivers. So why not choose the driver that has the best motor/distortion profile, and increased bandwidth. Kind of a no brainer...

Because the low distortion qualities really won't even come into play if it's only being asked to do very little. I'm really not following you on this one. Go cheaper and save some money.


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post #16 of 17 Old 01-06-2008, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the replies. A few items...
First off, I have 26" of depth behind the screen wall and 4' of space on either side of the screen where subs can go. I'd rather do something vertically oriented.

Second, the idea is to do something budget oriented with a good cheap local Sonotube discovery, so buying 16 drivers is probably not going to be something that is going to happen. I have other sub projects being developed that will take the capital up. Figure 4 columns at anything up to 8' tall and work from there. Sealed or vented...doesn't matter to me.

Driver wise, I'm not set on anything in particular.

Power wise, I have 4 channels at 1200 w/ch into 8 available, an additional 4 channels at 400/ch available, plus a spare Crown CE-1000 at a kilowatt bridged into 8. I think I also have two spare Behringer EP-2500's.

The 4 big subs should ideally be tuned for being crossed over at 40hz since I use three large horn loaded midbass subs in the system (three JTR Growlers).

Go to it

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post #17 of 17 Old 01-07-2008, 10:41 AM
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You could use multiple ED 160v2's or MJ18's. Heck you could use a bunch of Dayton classic 15's if you wanted to.


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