Projector Recommendations - Outdoor Film Series - Under $1k - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 10Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 54 Old 07-30-2017, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
codyunderblood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Projector Recommendations - Outdoor Film Series - Under $1k

Hey everyone,

I run an outdoor film series and we recently just won a grant to buy some better equipment. I'm looking for a solid projector choice and don't want to have to overspend if I don't have to. That said, we have up to $1k to spend. I could use some help since I'm not super informed on tech aspects.

We do most of our events at outdoor spots with ambient lighting. So we need something bright enough to contend with the occasional lighting issue. We will also be using the 200 inch Loch screen.

So after doing some research, it seems like our best option would be the Optoma EH500

This may fall out of our price range, so what I'm looking for is what projector would work best instead. I'm attached the few that seem to pop up as being the best bang for the buck, but am completely open to other suggestions. I also want to make sure that if we are spending extra money, it is worth it. Here are the options:

BenQ HT2050

Optoma HD 142X

ViewSonic PJD7828HDL - Or the pro version

ViewSonic PJD5555W

Any and all feedback is very greatly appreciated! and sorry, I cannot post links with a low post count
codyunderblood is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 54 Old 07-31-2017, 09:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b curry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the way to Hell, Michigan USA
Posts: 3,581
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 278
The Optoma EH500 is probably the best choice of what you have listed. It is a data grade projector so you will sacrifice some color accuracy for luminescence/brightness. The Optoma EH515 might also be a consideration as it has more light output.

Your screen size and budget are at odds. You need a projector that has 3000 lumens output as a minimum for that screen size. If you're looking at DLP projectors, I would suggest 4000 lumens as minimum as the DLP output is generally lower than stated as the stated value is with a white light no image being projected. Your short list falls short on light output for your screen size. In other words, they will work but the picture will be dimmer.

You want to have 18-24 foot lamberts luminescence coming from your screen. Foot lambert value is the product of the screen size, screen gain, and projector lumens. You can use the calculator in the link below to compare various projectors with your screen size and the fL value.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...ulator-pro.cfm


As for ambient lighting, I don't know what your conditions are, but in general, projector/screen setups are like oil and water with ambient light, especially sun light. If your dealing with ambient light you'll want to have a projector with even higher output.
b curry is online now  
post #3 of 54 Old 07-31-2017, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
codyunderblood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thank you for that information, it is very helpful.

So it sounds like our screen size + budget is an issue.

It looks like most of the BenQ stuff in this price range is pretty low in terms of lumens.

Any other suggestions for projectors not on my short list?

Or honestly..would I be better off sacrificing screen size for better picture? We are looking for a screen that can accommodate crowds of up to 150 or more.
codyunderblood is offline  
 
post #4 of 54 Old 07-31-2017, 06:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b curry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the way to Hell, Michigan USA
Posts: 3,581
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by codyunderblood View Post
Thank you for that information, it is very helpful.

So it sounds like our screen size + budget is an issue.

It looks like most of the BenQ stuff in this price range is pretty low in terms of lumens.

Any other suggestions for projectors not on my short list?

Or honestly..would I be better off sacrificing screen size for better picture? We are looking for a screen that can accommodate crowds of up to 150 or more.
As a reference, an indoor commercial theater normally calibrates to 16fL open gate. That means the luminescence value at 16fL is with no film in the projector (open gate) projecting white light. When you run film through the projector, you get something less than 16fL.

So now your dealing with digital, no film. The same standards are followed. You're asking to project outdoors and I bumped that number up a little because there is no dimmer switch for the moon and stars or the light pollution from houses, street lights, etc.. On top of that you've also said that you intend to use it with "ambient light" and I have no reference for that value, what you consider "ambient. I have an outdoor/backyard set up using a 144" screen with a 3000 lumen projector getting around 21fL and I still have to wait until around 9:00-9:30pm to get a decent picture. You don't watch lumens, you watch the screen and the luminescence generated by the combination of the screen gain (how much light the screen can reflect to your position) and the projectors lumen output.

Like most things in life "more" usually costs more money. To be honest a 200" screen maybe too small for 150 people; a 200" 16:9 screen is ~175" wide. 175"/25" wide per seat - that's 21 rows of 7 people to a row. I'm not sure you want to be going smaller.

You can use this data base and use the search by brightness/lumens function and then compare a given projector for foot lamberts for your screen size.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projectors.cfm

DLP technology based projectors under 1K tend to be more alike than different. That's because there are only a couple of companies building the light engines.

You might take a look at the brands Epson and Panasonic. You also might want to consider buying used. There are companies that specialize in applications like yours and they often have rental or B-stock projectors for sale at good prices, think projection screens at concert venues. If you google for medium venue projectors, B-stock, etc., you should be able to find some sources close to your location. For more commercial type medium venue projectors look at Barco, Digital Projection, Christie, Panasonic, and Projection Design. Benq is a good brand and they do make some larger projectors. You might find some used Sanyo's that will work for you. Sanyo projection was bought out by Panasonic.

With no offence intended, this forum and especially the under $3000 projector area is inhabited by home hobbyist with the average screen size in the 100"-120" range. That's how your short list projectors get high praise as those projectors are built more or less for that screen size. In your case, you're looking for double that size or more.

I don't know what you're intending to do for a screen. You might want to look here:
http://www.carlofet.com/

Carl's screens are very affordable and a good value IMHO.
elmalloc and DavidK442 like this.
b curry is online now  
post #5 of 54 Old 08-01-2017, 05:08 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b curry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the way to Hell, Michigan USA
Posts: 3,581
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by codyunderblood View Post
Thank you for that information, it is very helpful.

So it sounds like our screen size + budget is an issue.

It looks like most of the BenQ stuff in this price range is pretty low in terms of lumens.

Any other suggestions for projectors not on my short list?

Or honestly..would I be better off sacrificing screen size for better picture? We are looking for a screen that can accommodate crowds of up to 150 or more.
I would just add that the Optima EH500 will work just fine and it could support a larger screen. You could move up to a 250" diagonal 16:9 screen, about 18' wide and still have around 20-24fL luminescence value.

I would not be too concerned about my statement regarding the trade off of color accuracy vs. brightness. It just means that if you calibrate to a known color space like Rec 709, the full gamut may not be achieved. Probably 95-98% of the worlds population watches TV's with the same problem and they never notice it or don't care.

https://www.noteloop.com/kit/display...space/rec-709/

Last edited by b curry; 08-01-2017 at 05:57 AM.
b curry is online now  
post #6 of 54 Old 08-01-2017, 06:19 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
steve1106's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Northern, Va
Posts: 1,795
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 662 Post(s)
Liked: 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by codyunderblood View Post
Thank you for that information, it is very helpful.

So it sounds like our screen size + budget is an issue.

It looks like most of the BenQ stuff in this price range is pretty low in terms of lumens.

Any other suggestions for projectors not on my short list?

Or honestly..would I be better off sacrificing screen size for better picture? We are looking for a screen that can accommodate crowds of up to 150 or more.
Also ask in the under $3K projector section of the forum.

Another option is the $500ish Epson 1040: https://www.amazon.com/Epson-Cinema-...me+cinema+1040

Here's what my 1800 lumen Epson does on a lower setting with a 189" image.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 189inchon.jpg (147.3 KB, 33 views)
File Type: jpg 189inchoff.jpg (152.9 KB, 24 views)

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-gen...eap-build.html
Epson HC3700/HC2000; Screen - 151.5" 16:9/TV or 143.5" 2.35:1/HT at a seating distance of 13/14 feet; Yamaha RXV675 for 7.4; Speakers - Infinity Primus; Subs - 3 Polk PSW10s, 1 BIC F12; Headphones - 4 JVC wireless; Sony 3D Blu-ray player/six pairs 3D glasses.

Last edited by steve1106; 08-01-2017 at 06:32 AM.
steve1106 is offline  
post #7 of 54 Old 08-01-2017, 06:26 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: O.A.S.I.S
Posts: 7,673
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1631 Post(s)
Liked: 1082
Sounds like you already have a projector and screen and have been running things prior to this new grant. What projector and what size and type of screen are you using right now? Knowing that, we would understand what baseline you are coming from and what brightness is already considered good enough.... which could help when recommending upgraded gear.

("Well, you have been getting 10 ftl from your current setup, so we know that 'x' projector and screen can likely do a lot better, so it will be a good step up" versus "You are currently getting 20 ftl from your setup, so we don't want to take a step backward" etc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by codyunderblood View Post
Hey everyone,

I run an outdoor film series and we recently just won a grant to buy some better equipment. I'm looking for a solid projector choice and don't want to have to overspend if I don't have to. That said, we have up to $1k to spend. I could use some help since I'm not super informed on tech aspects.

We do most of our events at outdoor spots with ambient lighting. So we need something bright enough to contend with the occasional lighting issue. We will also be using the 200 inch Loch screen.

So after doing some research, it seems like our best option would be the Optoma EH500

This may fall out of our price range, so what I'm looking for is what projector would work best instead. I'm attached the few that seem to pop up as being the best bang for the buck, but am completely open to other suggestions. I also want to make sure that if we are spending extra money, it is worth it. Here are the options:

BenQ HT2050

Optoma HD 142X

ViewSonic PJD7828HDL - Or the pro version

ViewSonic PJD5555W

Any and all feedback is very greatly appreciated! and sorry, I cannot post links with a low post count
Ftoast likes this.

***
My current setup.
My favorite movie review podcast, the Next Picture Show.
Don't suffer through Gamma D on your JVC. Optimize HDR Tone Mapping using Arve's tool & Masciola's test patterns instead (hints.)
nathan_h is offline  
post #8 of 54 Old 08-01-2017, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
codyunderblood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post
I would just add that the Optima EH500 will work just fine and it could support a larger screen. You could move up to a 250" diagonal 16:9 screen, about 18' wide and still have around 20-24fL luminescence value.

I would not be too concerned about my statement regarding the trade off of color accuracy vs. brightness. It just means that if you calibrate to a known color space like Rec 709, the full gamut may not be achieved. Probably 95-98% of the worlds population watches TV's with the same problem and they never notice it or don't care.
Quick question: I consulted with a projector salesperson today who had suggested a short throw projector for a screen that big. I think specifically it was the Optoma EH415ST. Nothing I've read in my research thus far seems to support a short throw projector in this situation, but he was pretty adamant. Thoughts?
codyunderblood is offline  
post #9 of 54 Old 08-01-2017, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
codyunderblood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1106 View Post
Also ask in the under $3K projector section of the forum.

Another option is the $500ish Epson 1040:

Here's what my 1800 lumen Epson does on a lower setting with a 189" image.
Good suggestion! I'll ask in that forum as well. Heard a lot of good things about the Epson 1040. Is there diminishing returns with projectors in the 700-900 range in terms of what they offer? Something like the BenQ HT2050, for example?
codyunderblood is offline  
post #10 of 54 Old 08-01-2017, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
codyunderblood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Sounds like you already have a projector and screen and have been running things prior to this new grant. What projector and what size and type of screen are you using right now? Knowing that, we would understand what baseline you are coming from and what brightness is already considered good enough.... which could help when recommending upgraded gear.

("Well, you have been getting 10 ftl from your current setup, so we know that 'x' projector and screen can likely do a lot better, so it will be a good step up" versus "You are currently getting 20 ftl from your setup, so we don't want to take a step backward" etc)
That's a great question. Basically, we have been using places that have had existing set ups, so I haven't had a good look at the equipment. But...I've attached a picture of an example of set ups we've had (we typically don't mess with the AV equipment of an establishment). This will give you an idea of some of the venues/surroundings we're working with.


Last edited by codyunderblood; 08-01-2017 at 02:55 PM.
codyunderblood is offline  
post #11 of 54 Old 08-01-2017, 02:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: O.A.S.I.S
Posts: 7,673
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1631 Post(s)
Liked: 1082
Good photo. Based on the amount of light in the area, I would say you need to find the brightest 1080p projector you can, and not worry about black levels, contrast, or color accuracy.

***
My current setup.
My favorite movie review podcast, the Next Picture Show.
Don't suffer through Gamma D on your JVC. Optimize HDR Tone Mapping using Arve's tool & Masciola's test patterns instead (hints.)
nathan_h is offline  
post #12 of 54 Old 08-01-2017, 04:10 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b curry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the way to Hell, Michigan USA
Posts: 3,581
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by codyunderblood View Post
Quick question: I consulted with a projector salesperson today who had suggested a short throw projector for a screen that big. I think specifically it was the Optoma EH415ST. Nothing I've read in my research thus far seems to support a short throw projector in this situation, but he was pretty adamant. Thoughts?
I would tend to stay away from a short throw unless there is a very good reason to have one and that would of course be because you don't have room for a conventional setup.

The reason why centers around the lens quality. Good glass is expensive and a short throw lens usually requires more of it. Projectors in your price range are not using the best lenses. The projector I use in my home theater uses a lens that is several times your projector budget alone. In general a lens has a sweet spot in the center. As you locate the projector to make a larger image or use the zoom function you use more of the lens area. Lower cost lenses tend to have more aberration as you use more of the lens area, that is, the area away from the lens center optical quality can be in question. This can introduce some sharpness, focusing, pincushion or barrel distortion, or in general, optical problems.

Another problem with short throw setup is screen hot spotting or brightness uniformity. You will need to pay more attention to the screen gain for the projector and screen to work together.

On the plus side the Optoma EH415ST looks like it checks off some boxes for the brightness you need for a 200" screen and maybe larger. I would keep in mind that a DLP projector will be something around 20-25% less in lumens output as stated in the specifications as the DLP manufacturers tend to report the lumen value with white light, no image projected.

The other plus or Yin to the hot spotting Yang problem is the projectors light output is used more efficiently. There is a thing call the inverse square law of light which causes the apparent brightness of the light point source to diminish as the distance increases. So when you increase the throw distance to make the image coming through the lens larger, the brightness decreases. A short throw will avoid some of that.

One very real possibility for you now that you have brought up the short throw option would be to consider rear projection. It sounds like this is a moving location endeavor and space could be a problem on occasion. You could buy rear screen projection material to work with the short throw projector which in turn would keep the hardware out of the viewers way and allow for people to set much closer to the screen, maybe helping you manage your crowd size in a more efficient way. Something to consider and maybe a good idea for you.

Again, I would look at Carl's for rear screen projection screens. You should be able to support up to a 245" - 16:9 screen using the Optoma EH415ST in combination. A good rear projection screen can also reduce short throw hot spotting.

EDIT: Not the best photos, but here's a few of Carl's rear projection screens being use on a stage to give you some idea.







elmalloc likes this.

Last edited by b curry; 08-01-2017 at 06:33 PM.
b curry is online now  
post #13 of 54 Old 08-01-2017, 04:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b curry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the way to Hell, Michigan USA
Posts: 3,581
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by codyunderblood View Post
Good suggestion! I'll ask in that forum as well. Heard a lot of good things about the Epson 1040. Is there diminishing returns with projectors in the 700-900 range in terms of what they offer? Something like the BenQ HT2050, for example?
I would completely rule out the Epson HC1040 for your situation. It's a great little projector and an excellent value for the money, but it simply does not have enough horse power to do what you want. I would not use it for anything much larger than a 165" screen for outdoors in your situation, especially based on the photo you posted. You'll get around 12fL from the HC1040 on a 200" screen. That's watchable if you have control of the lighting and can make a relatively dark environment for it. From your photo, the ambient light will effectively wash out the picture.

I'm speaking from personal experience as I own an HC1040 and use it for my back yard theater projecting on a 144" screen.

The Benq HT2050, again a nice little projector. But you will struggle with it on a 200" screen putting out less than 9fL.

You really want to be in the 20-30fL range to make this work and have enjoyable presentations based on your posted photo.

Last edited by b curry; 08-01-2017 at 05:17 PM.
b curry is online now  
post #14 of 54 Old 08-02-2017, 01:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,624
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2245 Post(s)
Liked: 708
Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post
On the plus side the Optoma EH415ST looks like it checks off some boxes for the brightness you need for a 200" screen and maybe larger. I would keep in mind that a DLP projector will be something around 20-25% less in lumens output as stated in the specifications as the DLP manufacturers tend to report the lumen value with white light, no image projected.
SingleChip DLPs don't really work in quite that set of a pattern. Instead, think of it more like this:
A 300-350watt lamp is typically the brightest you'll find in a consumer projector..higher than that tends to dramatically shorten the lifespan and raise the price.
The brightest full-color results you can expect from these extra-bright DLPs is around 2000lm...a little higher if accuracy isn't at all important, but don't expect leaps upward.
These models are often rated/claimed around 2000-2500lm.

So, what of the higher claiming models?
Spoiler!
Because there's a fairly hard limit on the actual brightness the lamp itself can produce, you'll often find the models with increasingly high brightness specs (over ~2000-2500) ironically suffer even weaker color-brightness.
The Optoma EH415 only reaches roughly 800lumen of full-color output.

To be fair, for content that can be largely B&W; webpages, signage, PowerPoint, etc..this trade-off can be perfectly fine. For many videos, however, the trade-off is not in your favor.
For a lot of video content you'll get the brightest real-world results from an RGB style DLP (like the hc1200 or HD37) or often better yet, a high powered LCD projector.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is online now  
post #15 of 54 Old 08-02-2017, 06:30 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b curry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the way to Hell, Michigan USA
Posts: 3,581
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
...
A SingleChip DLP can be designed to permanently sacrifice color-brightness at a ratio of roughly 1:3 in exchange for higher peak-white brightness.
...
And rather than go through a very wordy explanation that most will not comprehend of even care about, I simply simplified.

But thanks.
b curry is online now  
post #16 of 54 Old 08-02-2017, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
codyunderblood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post
I would tend to stay away from a short throw unless there is a very good reason to have one and that would of course be because you don't have room for a conventional setup.

The reason why centers around the lens quality. Good glass is expensive and a short throw lens usually requires more of it. Projectors in your price range are not using the best lenses. The projector I use in my home theater uses a lens that is several times your projector budget alone. In general a lens has a sweet spot in the center. As you locate the projector to make a larger image or use the zoom function you use more of the lens area. Lower cost lenses tend to have more aberration as you use more of the lens area, that is, the area away from the lens center optical quality can be in question. This can introduce some sharpness, focusing, pincushion or barrel distortion, or in general, optical problems.

Another problem with short throw setup is screen hot spotting or brightness uniformity. You will need to pay more attention to the screen gain for the projector and screen to work together.

On the plus side the Optoma EH415ST looks like it checks off some boxes for the brightness you need for a 200" screen and maybe larger. I would keep in mind that a DLP projector will be something around 20-25% less in lumens output as stated in the specifications as the DLP manufacturers tend to report the lumen value with white light, no image projected.

The other plus or Yin to the hot spotting Yang problem is the projectors light output is used more efficiently. There is a thing call the inverse square law of light which causes the apparent brightness of the light point source to diminish as the distance increases. So when you increase the throw distance to make the image coming through the lens larger, the brightness decreases. A short throw will avoid some of that.

One very real possibility for you now that you have brought up the short throw option would be to consider rear projection. It sounds like this is a moving location endeavor and space could be a problem on occasion. You could buy rear screen projection material to work with the short throw projector which in turn would keep the hardware out of the viewers way and allow for people to set much closer to the screen, maybe helping you manage your crowd size in a more efficient way. Something to consider and maybe a good idea for you.

Again, I would look at Carl's for rear screen projection screens. You should be able to support up to a 245" - 16:9 screen using the Optoma EH415ST in combination. A good rear projection screen can also reduce short throw hot spotting.
Thank you again for all of this. I really do appreciate your patience with some of my questions, which are probably pretty basic. I think it all boils down to a couple of points/follow-ups.

1. Is the EH415ST a good choice over some of the others because it can suit any place regardless of size, in our case? Rear projection is sometimes an option, but will not always be available (some screens need to back up against a fence/barrier to provide ample seating room).

2. Given what you know about needs, budget, screen size, and what I'm looking at, do you have a suggestion for maybe my top 3 options, based on what I'm looking at in my original post and any that may not be there? I've had at least 2-3 people suggest the Optoma EH146. Is that an option? Also saw someone say BenQ MH741? Any of the InFocus around that price range?

3. I'm certainly intrigued by the Carl's screens as I've read nothing but great things. My concern is portability. As you guessed, this is very much a traveling endeavor. Inflatable seemed the way to go for that reason, plus the Loch provides front/rear options (even though it may not be the best for rear), but I am definitely open to ideas. Currently, we are looking at this: https://www.amazon.com/LOCH-200-diag.../dp/B00TDZWO66

4. That setup is what we ideally want things to look like. It's hard to tell, but we had about 80+ people seated there. That's also typical of the kind of space we are working with. This one happens to be long and narrow, but the distance from the screen is about right on. Is going smaller with a screen an option at all to increase the quality of the picture? Or is 200 inch a good size for that kind of crowd, with the ability for us to grow? I will tell you that we are an independent film series and so we're not necessarily looking to "wow" people with films that require lots of spectacle. At the same time, we're a free community event that we hope to gain a big following. We average about 40 people, we've had as many as 80-90 and want up to 100 to be the average.

I know that I've got some challenges here, especially with budgeting. We're fundraising for the event and I may get some more wiggle room with cost, but this is looking like the most likely scenario, so I appreciate your time and effort to try to help me out!

Last edited by codyunderblood; 08-02-2017 at 02:20 PM.
codyunderblood is offline  
post #17 of 54 Old 08-02-2017, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
codyunderblood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Good photo. Based on the amount of light in the area, I would say you need to find the brightest 1080p projector you can, and not worry about black levels, contrast, or color accuracy.
The light will not always be that abrasive. That's on a public bridge that makes for a very cool setting, but super bright lights we have ZERO control over. So while it may not always be that bright....we have to be prepared to have these screenings in places where we don't have a lot of control over that. The pains of having a themed movie series!

Any recommendations of projectors that fit the bill?
codyunderblood is offline  
post #18 of 54 Old 08-02-2017, 11:55 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
nathan_h's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: O.A.S.I.S
Posts: 7,673
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1631 Post(s)
Liked: 1082
I'm not familiar with these but would start by researching this list (brightest, first) and consider Optoma, InFocus, and BenQ to be brands I would consider.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...sort=brt&sz=15

***
My current setup.
My favorite movie review podcast, the Next Picture Show.
Don't suffer through Gamma D on your JVC. Optimize HDR Tone Mapping using Arve's tool & Masciola's test patterns instead (hints.)
nathan_h is offline  
post #19 of 54 Old 08-02-2017, 02:27 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b curry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the way to Hell, Michigan USA
Posts: 3,581
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by codyunderblood View Post
Thank you again for all of this. I really do appreciate your patience with some of my questions, which are probably pretty basic. I think it all boils down to a couple of points/follow-ups.

1. Is the EH415ST a good choice over some of the others because it can do short throw if I need it to, but function okay if I want to use a traditional distance? Rear projection is sometimes an option, but will not always be available (some screens need to back up against a fence/barrier to provide ample seating room).
That's certainly an option. You know your situation much better than me or any stranger you're going to encounter here and as such, you're probably best qualified to answer. Perhaps your sales person can offer you a demo model to work with or try out.



Quote:
Originally Posted by codyunderblood View Post
2. Given what you know about needs, budget, screen size, and what I'm looking at, do you have a suggestion for maybe my top 3 options, based on what I'm looking at in my original post and any that may not be there? I've had at least 2-3 people suggest the Optoma EH146. Is that an option? Also saw someone say BenQ MH741?
Yea... There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of indecision and contemplation. It is an area which we call the Zone of Information Paralysis.

Sorry, but your starting to compare projectors that are more or less the same machine. Realistically, you're going to set this thing up and forget about it while you watch the move. The differences are relatively minor. You need the highest light out put at the lowest price. Benq, Optoma, Vivitek, InFocus, ViewSonic, etc. are all going to work. Based on your picture and screen size, my recommendation is to get something in the 4000-5000 lumen range for the job.

I don't mean to be crass, but from your picture, critical watching of the film/move does not appear to be high priority. You've got a sagging screen with a picture washed out by street lights and possibly the headlights of passing cars, who knows what for sound, and horrible lines of sight for viewing. And all of that is ok! I'm sure it's a great deal of fun and a wonderful social occasion for the people attending! What I am saying is that some of the nuances that might separate one projector over another my not have any real importance in your situation. You need light output.



Quote:
Originally Posted by codyunderblood View Post
3. I'm certainly intrigued by the Carl's screens as I've read nothing but great things. My concern is portability. As you guessed, this is very much a traveling endeavor. Inflatable seemed the way to go for that reason, plus the Loch provides front/rear options (even though it may not be the best for rear), but I am definitely open to ideas.
Carl's makes a great screen, very, very good quality, and is next to impossible to beat for price in an outdoor screen.

I don't like inflatable screens for the very reason shown in your photo, they sag. On top of that, they are noisy and the bigger ones are heavy to move around. You will also get the inevitable hole that needs to be patched. But if an inflatable is what works best for you... As I said, you know your situation much better than I.

Carl's screens, I would call transportable. The frame as they suggest are DIY from EMT conduit. As such, they can be taken down and moved but it's not instant pudding.



Quote:
Originally Posted by codyunderblood View Post
4. That setup is what we ideally want things to look like. It's hard to tell, but we had about 80+ people seated there. That's also typical of the kind of space we are working with. This one happens to be long and narrow, but the distance from the screen is about right on. Is going smaller with a screen an option at all to increase the quality of the picture? Or is 200 inch a good size for that kind of crowd, with the ability for us to grow? I will tell you that we are an independent film series and so we're not necessarily looking to "wow" people with films that require lots of spectacle. At the same time, we're a free community event that we hope to gain a big following. We average about 40 people, we've had as many as 80-90 and want up to 100 to be the average.

I know that I've got some challenges here, especially with budgeting. We're fundraising for the event and I may get some more wiggle room with cost, but this is looking like the most likely scenario, so I appreciate your time and effort to try to help me out!
For me, 200" for the screen is the smallest I would go. As a mater of fact I would go larger. Smaller than 200" for the number of people you have is just to small IMHO.

I've got one more suggestion for you to look at.

The company is Backyard Theater Systems™ and the link is https://www.backyardtheatersystems.com/index.php

They have a package that pretty much checks off all of your boxes.

It comes with a 16' portable screen that's not an inflatable, the Optoma EH500 (1080p with 4700 Lumens), a sound system, blu-ray player, and storage/transport containers. The price is $3599.00 and shipping is free.

Here's a link: https://www.backyardtheatersystems.c...er-series.html


And a video:


Last edited by b curry; 08-02-2017 at 03:07 PM.
b curry is online now  
post #20 of 54 Old 08-02-2017, 04:38 PM
Member
 
parawing742's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post
I would completely rule out the Epson HC1040 for your situation. It's a great little projector and an excellent value for the money, but it simply does not have enough horse power to do what you want. I would not use it for anything much larger than a 165" screen for outdoors in your situation, especially based on the photo you posted. You'll get around 12fL from the HC1040 on a 200" screen. That's watchable if you have control of the lighting and can make a relatively dark environment for it. From your photo, the ambient light will effectively wash out the picture.

I'm speaking from personal experience as I own an HC1040 and use it for my back yard theater projecting on a 144" screen.

The Benq HT2050, again a nice little projector. But you will struggle with it on a 200" screen putting out less than 9fL.

You really want to be in the 20-30fL range to make this work and have enjoyable presentations based on your posted photo.
I wouldn't rule out the HC1040 at all. I own several of them and regularly use them on 180" and 200" outdoor screens and they look great.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
parawing742 is offline  
post #21 of 54 Old 08-02-2017, 04:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b curry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the way to Hell, Michigan USA
Posts: 3,581
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by parawing742 View Post
I wouldn't rule out the HC1040 at all. I own several of them and regularly use them on 180" and 200" outdoor screens and they look great.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
As long as it's dark, I agree.

Take a look at his picture regarding how it would be used with the screen setup under street lights next to a road way. Then come back on how ~12fL would look in this situation...

b curry is online now  
post #22 of 54 Old 08-02-2017, 06:03 PM
Member
 
parawing742's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post
As long as it's dark, I agree.

Take a look at his picture regarding how it would be used with the screen setup under street lights next to a road way. Then come back on how ~12fL would look in this situation...

The ambient light will hurt the picture quality regardless of lumens. More lumens doesn't make a washed out picture look better. I've tested 3000 and 5000 on a 220" screen before and it makes very little difference in looking better when ambient light was present. Obviously buy the best you can afford, but for me I believe the HC1040 would be just fine.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Ftoast likes this.
parawing742 is offline  
post #23 of 54 Old 08-02-2017, 06:28 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b curry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the way to Hell, Michigan USA
Posts: 3,581
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by parawing742 View Post
The ambient light will hurt the picture quality regardless of lumens. More lumens doesn't make a washed out picture look better. I've tested 3000 and 5000 on a 220" screen before and it makes very little difference in looking better when ambient light was present. Obviously buy the best you can afford, but for me I believe the HC1040 would be just fine.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
I would agree relative to wash out. In regards to luminance, not so much. Apparently we're talking apples and oranges.

If you're mating HC1040's to 220" screens for rental, I guess I would look for a different vendor.
b curry is online now  
post #24 of 54 Old 08-02-2017, 09:46 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,624
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2245 Post(s)
Liked: 708
The hc1040 outputs over 2100 full-color lumen compared to the Optoma eh415's ~800 full-color lumen.
If that Epson isn't bright enough to be adequate for video, a mostly dimmer Optoma will not be a better choice.

I'm often a huge pusher of RGB DLP for affordable hometheater for its huge contrast advantage in the under $1000 market, but at these sizes and with ambient light killing black-levels anyway, the higher real-world brightness that LCDs can reach sounds more important.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is online now  
post #25 of 54 Old 08-03-2017, 06:56 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b curry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the way to Hell, Michigan USA
Posts: 3,581
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
The hc1040 outputs over 2100 full-color lumen compared to the Optoma eh415's ~800 full-color lumen.
If that Epson isn't bright enough to be adequate for video, a mostly dimmer Optoma will not be a better choice.

I'm often a huge pusher of RGB DLP for affordable hometheater for its huge contrast advantage in the under $1000 market, but at these sizes and with ambient light killing black-levels anyway, the higher real-world brightness that LCDs can reach sounds more important.
I would agree with you up to the point of "~800 full-color lumen". I don't know what the Optoma EH415 will put out.

Your argument, while sound, seems to be based on ~2000-2500lm output with generalizations of DLP preformance. Different DLP's use different color wheels and even vary in output with different modes on the same projector. Of course you know that. Optoma has published 4200 lumens and I assume that to be ANSI lumens reported as typical for DLP's. I would add that the EH415 is a data grade, short throw giving it some advantage regarding output. Again, I don't know what it will put out, but I would expect more than ~800 lumens. The last DLP I measured was a SIM2 HT5000. Sim2 stated 3500 lumens. We got ~1000 calibrated lumens on a 200" screen with a new bulb.

Regarding the HC1040. It's 3000 lumen CLO output comes at the expense of color accuracy with a yellow/green push. Dialing it back to ~2000 CLO gives a much more satisfying picture. On a 200" screen with ~2000 lumens, it's ~6-7fL on a new bulb.

I would also agree that an LCD will be a better choice in this situation, but not the HC1040. I would look at the HC1440 or the new HC1450 as a minimum, but then, it's an increase in price of ~30% regarding the OP's budget.
b curry is online now  
post #26 of 54 Old 08-03-2017, 08:21 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,624
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2245 Post(s)
Liked: 708
Shouldn't 2000lm over a 200" screen be starting around 15ftL-17ftL of brightness?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
Ftoast is online now  
post #27 of 54 Old 08-03-2017, 10:06 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
b curry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: on the way to Hell, Michigan USA
Posts: 3,581
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 476 Post(s)
Liked: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
Shouldn't 2000lm over a 200" screen be starting around 15ftL-17ftL of brightness?
Agreed, it does if you just divide the lumens by screen area. What's missing is the loss from throw distance, point source to screen.

Projector Central's calculator seems to take this into account. I don't know how accurate it is, but it seems to be in the ball park. With out doing the math each time, measurements to confirm, and consideration for any other variables, I reckon it's close enough. If you look at the Epson HC2045 rated at 2200 lumens and 35000:1 contrast vs. the HC1040 with 3000 lumens and 15000:1 contrast, they rate the HC2045 at 9fL on a 200" - 1.0 gain 16:9 screen and the HC1040 at 11fL for the same 200" - 1.0 gain 16:9 screen with both projectors requiring ~20' throw distance.

The above fL levels are watchable in a light controlled situation. Human eye's are marvelous interments and will adapt to the situation. My point was simply that it's a dim picture and in the OP's situation, I would not recommend the HC1040.

For the record, I did not recommend the Optoma EH415 either. I believe that recommendation came from the OP's salesman. I recommend that the OP should try to demo the EH415 before he bought it.
b curry is online now  
post #28 of 54 Old 08-03-2017, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
codyunderblood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post
For the record, I did not recommend the Optoma EH415 either. I believe that recommendation came from the OP's salesman. I recommend that the OP should try to demo the EH415 before he bought it.
Right. The salesman suggested EH415 short throw because of our space issues we may encounter. The more I read, the more it seems like short throw may sacrifice a lot of things in terms of quality. I feel like this may be a last ditch option? Any light that can be specifically shed on what I'm sacrificing with short throw would be super appreciated, as I've never seen a short throw projector in action for a movie. (Stated differently, is this really just an option only in the event that I may not have 24 feet of room for a projector?)

From my understanding, the Optoma EH450 may be the best of what I've listed thus far in terms of my budget, as it has the highest lumens. Behind that are projectors like Optoma EH416 or BenQ MH741 (which sound like negligible differences between models in the price range). And then a tier lower than that due to lumen levels, something like the Epson 1040.

I think my main concern is making sure that the improvement we get from the EH450 is worth spending the extra cash over something like the EH416.

As I've said before, I know this is a very difficult match to find. Unfortunately for the sake of budgeting (and for finding the "right fit"), we're a rotating free film series that shows exclusively independent films and pairs it with craft beer, so our spots are mostly breweries, taprooms, etc. We sometimes have control over the lights and sometimes its not as abrasive, but I'm pretty confident saying that we will never have pure darkness, as people tend to get up, go get more beer, use restroom, etc. It also means the occasional confined space. Rear projection is sometimes going to be an option, but not always.

Also, I know that the picture shows a sagging screen, questionable sound, and other not so great conditions. That equipment belonged to that establishment, who set it up without much care. Believe it or not, that's the best set up we've had thus far. You don't even want to see some of that stuff we've had to contend with. That's why we are trying to improve it with our own equipment. I just want to make sure that I'm making an informed purchase, given all of my challenges, and there are many.

Last edited by codyunderblood; 08-03-2017 at 10:41 AM.
codyunderblood is offline  
post #29 of 54 Old 08-03-2017, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
codyunderblood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by parawing742 View Post
I wouldn't rule out the HC1040 at all. I own several of them and regularly use them on 180" and 200" outdoor screens and they look great.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Do you feel something like an Optoma EH416 that has 4200 lumens and a higher price point is significantly better than the HC1040? I.e. worth shelling out more money? Looking to make sure that some of these differences between price points/specs aren't negligible.
codyunderblood is offline  
post #30 of 54 Old 08-03-2017, 11:03 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Dave in Green's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,783
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2032 Post(s)
Liked: 1308
<$1,000 is your problem. It's not realistic for your needs. It's like shopping for beach front property at swamp land prices. At minimum you really need something like the $1,499, 5,000-lumen Epson PowerLite 2250U that from 24' will illuminate a 240" screen to 26 fL.

epson.com/For-Work/Projectors/Meeting-Room/PowerLite-2250U-Wireless-Full-HD-WUXGA-3LCD-Projector-/p/V11H871020

projectorcentral.com/Epson-PowerLite_2250U-projection-calculator-pro.htm
elmalloc likes this.
Dave in Green is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Outdoor Theaters

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off