Sony g70 vs nec xg852 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 08-21-2008, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

I'm having a XG852 and happen to find a G70. Would like your opinion on how much improvement on PQ over XG852.

Presume condition of PJ being equal. E.g a new XG852 & G70 how much better. 10% or 20% etc.

Thanks for your advise because I though of getting the G70, But if only slight improvement I might not want to go through the trouble.

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post #2 of 31 Old 08-21-2008, 08:08 AM
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I've had both, though not at the same time.

**IF** your 852 is set up properly, and nobody messed with The Pots That Must Not Be Touched, an XG is capable of a really excellent picture. If anyone fooled with the pots inside, all bets are off.

The G70 is capable of a sharper picture. Its major advantage is that it's liquid-coupled, meaning you won't see as much light spill from light areas to dark areas of the picture. (On a dark scene with a bright spot -- e.g. a scene of space with the sun in the distance -- you'll see a big halo around the bright spot on a non-LC projector. If you have large bright areas and large dark areas, the halos from the large bright areas will shine on the dark areas, killing the shadow detail in those areas. LC projectors vastly reduce this problem.)

I'd say the LC G70 is capable of a better picture than the non-LC XG, primarily shadow detail. The XG can be harder to set up, but you've apparently taken care of that. The XG is noisier than the G70, and the G70 is a bit easier to quiet if you want to take on the project. I think the XG is a bit more delicate / less reliable than the G70, but finding parts for the G70 is getting very difficult.

The biggest complaint I had about the G70 was the memory model -- which setup memory it chose for a particular signal, and how difficult it was to change manually. It drove me nuts and was a significant reason why I got rid of my G70. But many people have no problem with it so maybe it was just me, or just my particular G70.

Either one will throw an excellent picture, if properly set up. I can't say how much better, but it would be noticeable.
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post #3 of 31 Old 08-21-2008, 06:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Gary,

Any other opinions? FYI the G70 going for only USD 650. Condition good and no ware on all tube.

Should I grab it.

thanks
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post #4 of 31 Old 08-21-2008, 07:37 PM
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Gary just tell him to get the most reliable PJ you own, the Mighty marquee!

Athanasios
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post #5 of 31 Old 08-21-2008, 08:12 PM
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Actually there were several things I preferred about the G70. I think mine may have been somewhat messed up, so I finally gave up and sold it to Curt (explaining the problems) so he could fix it and re-sell it. If not for those problems, (cover your ears Athanasios ) I probably would have kept it.

$650 for a G70 with clean tubes is a mighty good deal. People are asking lots more than that for ones in good shape; one sold on ebay recently for $432 but the blue & green were roasted. You could probably get at least $650 out of it by selling the tubes, maybe more if you parted out the rest of it. Grab it, and see if you prefer it!
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post #6 of 31 Old 08-22-2008, 05:20 AM
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$650?...buy it!!

I don't think the G70 would be any sharper than an 852 (I'd be biased the other way), but it will have a better picture as it is Liquid Coupled - scenes appear much less hazy, much clearer - even though a 1:1 test pattern may not be as sharp.

I'd jump at it.

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post #7 of 31 Old 08-22-2008, 02:30 PM
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$650 for a nice clean G70 is a steal. If it's in good shape and you know how to set it up, you can get a damn nice 1080p pic out of it - for $650!

Never had an XG, so I can't compare, but I love my G70.

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post #8 of 31 Old 08-30-2008, 06:05 PM
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It's really impossible to give a percentage improvement from going from one to the other. It all depends on how you weigh the differences yourself.

I love LC myself and would never go back to AC, so for me, it's a huge jump. The G70 is also quieter.

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post #9 of 31 Old 08-31-2008, 01:51 AM
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AC are great, until you see LC. Then they are unwatchable
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post #10 of 31 Old 09-01-2008, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

Thanks for all the advise. Decided to give it a pass. I planning to upgrade to 9 incher but very few in my country. So when this G70 come along I though of upgrading if there going to be a great different from my XG852. I will continue to look around for a 9 incher instead of going to another 8 Inch.

Thanks again.

Marcus
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post #11 of 31 Old 10-08-2008, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

Once I decided to pass this my XG broke down. So when back to pick this clean G70 but price higher now. USD750.00 but I think still a very good price for G70. Unfortunately it does not come with the remote. can anybody advise the model of the remote so I can pick up from ebay or videogon.

Marcus
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post #12 of 31 Old 10-09-2008, 10:21 AM
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there was a HT shop in Singapore that had quite a few Vision 1 9" Marquee machines. Here's a thread from a guy who bought a machine from them but i don't remember the name of the shop.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ight=singapore

Marquee HD mod's Marquee Upgrade/re-build package
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post #13 of 31 Old 10-09-2008, 01:59 PM
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What's wrong with the XG?

Why don't you fix that? You should do so even if you sell it, to recoup some money.

They aren't hard to fix.

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post #14 of 31 Old 10-09-2008, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draganm View Post

there was a HT shop in Singapore that had quite a few Vision 1 9" Marquee machines. Here's a thread from a guy who bought a machine from them but i don't remember the name of the shop.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ight=singapore

Thanks, yes I know this guy and he given me the contact but they don't have working vision 1.
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post #15 of 31 Old 10-09-2008, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W View Post

What's wrong with the XG?

Why don't you fix that? You should do so even if you sell it, to recoup some money.

They aren't hard to fix.

Hi Mark,

Error Code F9. Curt told me the focus Drive board. Probably will send to him for repair.

BTW brought the G70 and is only has 477 hrs on it.
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post #16 of 31 Old 10-09-2008, 04:41 PM
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Yep, that sounds like it.

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post #17 of 31 Old 10-12-2008, 12:37 AM - Thread Starter
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It has 477hrs on it but I was surprise there is slight burn on green. I would grade it 9 - 9.5. red and blue are clean. My XG after 1000+ hr and all the 3 tubes are as clean as new. Is it normal for G70 to show early burn on green.

This machine is much quiter than XG and really throw a very nice image.
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post #18 of 31 Old 10-12-2008, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Gan View Post

It has 477hrs on it but I was surprise there is slight burn on green. I would grade it 9 - 9.5. red and blue are clean. My XG after 1000+ hr and all the 3 tubes are as clean as new. Is it normal for G70 to show early burn on green.

unfortunately yes it is normal for the G70 to burn the tubes with very low hours. Reason being is the factory contrast seting as well as factory Gain (G2) controls are set way too high for the tubes. I believe the tubes are operating at something like 80% of max output on a G70, normal CRT's are in the 50% to 60% range. You need to turn the tube outputs down as well as turn off the incredibly stupid 20 minute warm-up time with full white field (service menu).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Gan View Post

This machine is much quiter than XG and really throw a very nice image.

anything is quieter than an XG except a jet airplane which is a little bit noisier

Marquee HD mod's Marquee Upgrade/re-build package
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post #19 of 31 Old 10-12-2008, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draganm View Post

unfortunately yes it is normal for the G70 to burn the tubes with very low hours. Reason being is the factory contrast seting as well as factory Gain (G2) controls are set way too high for the tubes. I believe the tubes are operating at something like 80% of max output on a G70, normal CRT's are in the 50% to 60% range. You need to turn the tube outputs down as well as turn off the incredibly stupid 20 minute warm-up time with full white field (service menu).

anything is quieter than an XG except a jet airplane which is a little bit noisier


Thanks I will check the search and see how to turn down the G2.
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post #20 of 31 Old 10-13-2008, 08:14 AM
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I have a G70 remote I could sell you for an honest price. Just email me and we can make arrangements craigr@cir-engineering.com

I think you did a good thing in picking up that G70. The user interface with respect to setup and calibration is just wonderful. Granted, the G90 is even better with more controls, but once you start working with the G70 you will realize the projector is just smooth and nice to work with. I mean, you can literally make every adjustment you need to with the remote and you don't even have to open the projector. And the way the remote is laid out with the service menu and the buttons is so intuitive. Even the button locations on the remote are ergonomic and intuitive to find.

My favorite projectors to calibrate are the G90 and G70. The Marquess are fun and nice projectors, but in terms of the user interface the Sony G's are the best.

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post #21 of 31 Old 10-13-2008, 09:09 AM
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Quote:


The biggest complaint I had about the G70 was the memory model -- which setup memory it chose for a particular signal, and how difficult it was to change manually. It drove me nuts and was a significant reason why I got rid of my G70. But many people have no problem with it so maybe it was just me, or just my particular G70.

You can always manually manage the memory blocks, which is what I do. I use IR macros to recall the memory corresponding to the selected source. This is always necessary, regardless of PJ, if you're using a VP and sharing a common output frequency for multiple source devices.
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post #22 of 31 Old 10-13-2008, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axatax View Post

This is always necessary, regardless of PJ, if you're using a VP and sharing a common output frequency for multiple source devices.

Why?

If the VP is sending a single common output resolution, then the VP should take care of fitting everything to the screen properly, and compensate for brightness changes.

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post #23 of 31 Old 04-02-2010, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draganm View Post

unfortunately yes it is normal for the G70 to burn the tubes with very low hours. Reason being is the factory contrast seting as well as factory Gain (G2) controls are set way too high for the tubes. I believe the tubes are operating at something like 80% of max output on a G70, normal CRT's are in the 50% to 60% range. You need to turn the tube outputs down as well as turn off the incredibly stupid 20 minute warm-up time with full white field (service menu).

anything is quieter than an XG except a jet airplane which is a little bit noisier

can you explain the G2 control
is that just the contrast in the menu ?
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post #24 of 31 Old 04-04-2010, 02:39 PM
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Marcus

...sell both of those and go for a Marquee! (8500 and above!)

Martin
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post #25 of 31 Old 04-05-2010, 03:41 PM
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You could fit the XG tubes into the G70.


It's not that hard to strip the housings off the tubes and swap HV leads.

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post #26 of 31 Old 04-05-2010, 06:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W View Post

You could fit the XG tubes into the G70.


It's not that hard to strip the housings off the tubes and swap HV leads.

Hi Mark,

Thanks, are they using the same tube? I change the XG tube myself but I thought the G70 is LC should be more difficult to change.


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post #27 of 31 Old 04-05-2010, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Sory Mark,

Another question. If the green tube burn and the red and blue is ok should I change all 3 tubes for even usage or just change the green tube.

Thanks
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post #28 of 31 Old 04-05-2010, 06:42 PM
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I would probably change all 3 tubes, but it is more work, and there is always a risk attached to something like this.

They are *almost* the same bare tube. The XG tube has a slightly different electron gun, with an extra grid between the Heater and Cathode. It is a newer tube design. This means you need to modify the G70 neckboards.

This is why I suggest you do all three, to keep them the same.

The modifications to the neckboards (C blocks or somesuch in Sony-speak) are not difficult and are documented on Curt's FAQ/Tech section (Thanks Dan).

The swapping of the tube housings and leads is fiddly and time consuming, but not technically difficult. There is some risk you will break/scratch/drop a tube, etc.

I would do this without blinking, but I've done bare tube swaps a number of times now.

You need to think it though. I'm not certain, but Terry may be able to get complete sets of bare XG tubes for about $500, which would save an XG and save A LOT of work. See the forsale section on Curt's forum.


Mark

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post #29 of 31 Old 04-05-2010, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Gan View Post

should I change all 3 tubes for even usage or just change the green tube.

Marcus

Marcus

That is a definite negative!

...just change the tube that is in need of changing! (Since they never wear evenly no matter how hard you try, usually it is the green followed by the blue and a few tube changes later the red!)

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post #30 of 31 Old 04-05-2010, 07:11 PM
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Except, as I said above, that would mean mixing a 07 tubes with 08 tubes.

Although I currently do that in my XG LC, I don't recommend it.

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