G90 Shaking Image - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 08-23-2008, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, I've been gone for a while but now I'm back

Anyway, my personal G90 is having some image shaking issues and I am wondering what you guys think. Maybe it's the YA, but I hope not because the issue seems to be the opposite of the norm...

When the unit is first powered on the image shakes and as the projector warms up it seems to stop and stabilize. All controls including contrast, brightness, convergence, focus, etc work fine. The set does not shut down and there are no error codes. Also, while the image shakes the convergence remains ok too and all three tubes move in unison.

However, if I adjust geometry this seems to cause the image to start to shake again sometimes. If I turn the set on and wait for it to stop shaking and don't make any adjustments it seems that it's usually ok. This seems to maybe indicate the YA though...

What do you think?

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post #2 of 32 Old 08-23-2008, 11:47 AM
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I wonder it some of the componenets on the convergence board might be aging . On my marquee it moves back and forth slightly but if you remove the convergance amp connectos it gets rock steady.

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post #3 of 32 Old 08-24-2008, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey Tom, how's it going

Well, I'm sure the problem is due to something "aging," but that's the point... I want to fix it!

Also, this chassis is like 12 years old, but it only has 650 hours on the clock.

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post #4 of 32 Old 08-24-2008, 08:25 PM
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Do you use the warm up screen in the G90?

How close are your image edges to the edge of the CRT tube faces?
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post #5 of 32 Old 08-25-2008, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't use the warm up screen, I use real video to warm up. The image is about 3 mm from the edge of the tube's phosphors. I am actually planning to increase the throw distance by about an inch or so...

I have noticed that the problem is not only happening when the projector is cold. It can start again later at random, especially if I make changes to registration or magnetic focus.

I can't remember if I replaced the Dallas chip in this unit yet or not, so I will put a new one in later this week. I doubt the Dallas chip could cause this, but after reading this thread (link) I am concerned. I probably won't run the projector again until I swap Dallas chips.

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post #6 of 32 Old 08-25-2008, 12:46 PM
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craigr,

I would try and reseat the YA board as well as th board above it and see if that corrects the shaking.

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post #7 of 32 Old 08-25-2008, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Terry,

I actually pulled the YA today so that I could dump my Dallas chip with my Pocket Programmer in case it decides to go before the replacement arrives. So the YA will be reseated.

Which other boards do you mean for me to try re-seating as well? Are you talking about the BA and BB boards. I was going to re-seat the BA because that would make sense.

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post #8 of 32 Old 08-25-2008, 08:23 PM
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I have little experience with a G series sony, but when a NEC gets the shakes, it's usually the deflection coil connections at the deflection board - a reseat usually fixes it.

I would be reseating all boards, and all coil cable connections.

Very carefully, and double check everything!!

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post #9 of 32 Old 08-26-2008, 07:18 AM
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Hi Craigr !

If all the three guns shakes the image alltogeter, then I assume that it's not the DY/Sub-DY deflection coils connection but rather the main 150V HV power (used for driving the deflections yokes).

I would try to disconnect/reconnect PA and PD board connectors first.
If this not cure the problem, swapp PA(PD) board with another one to see if this cure the issue.

Did you changed the front 60mm fan ? If yes, did you checked that it's still running fine ?

Hopes this helps

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post #10 of 32 Old 08-26-2008, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W View Post

I have little experience with a G series sony, but when a NEC gets the shakes, it's usually the deflection coil connections at the deflection board - a reseat usually fixes it.

I would be reseating all boards, and all coil cable connections.

Very carefully, and double check everything!!

Thanks for the tip Mark. I have in fact reseated every board and connector in the unit as of yesterday. I have not seen anymore shaking, but it is not uncommon to go without shaking for a day or two. Time will tell.

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post #11 of 32 Old 08-26-2008, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Good to see you John Please shoot me an email because I want to tell you something unrelated to this topic and in private. craigr@cir-engineering.com

I have not changed the fans yet. This G90 was in storage for the last three years and I just mounted it in two weeks ago. I figured I would hold off on mods until I had verified that the projector was functioning normally... less confusion in case of an issue that way.

I guess that if the shaking returns I'll look for bad solder joints on the PA and PD boards next. If I see nothing then maybe I'll get with you or Curt about sending a test board to see if that fixes the issue.

When I pulled the Dallas chip yesterday it had a date code of 1999 so it's newer than I suspected. The replacement should be here no later then next Monday so I will change it ASAP. Question, I looked at the BIN file that my Pocket Programmer made of the Dallas chip and it's only 128 k. It should be 1 MB right?

craigr

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Hi Craigr !

If all the three guns shakes the image alltogeter, then I assume that it's not the DY/Sub-DY deflection coils connection but rather the main 150V HV power (used for driving the deflections yokes).

I would try to disconnect/reconnect PA and PD board connectors first.
If this not cure the problem, swapp PA(PD) board with another one to see if this cure the issue.

Did you changed the front 60mm fan ? If yes, did you checked that it's still running fine ?

Hopes this helps

John


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post #12 of 32 Old 08-26-2008, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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I think I may have just needed to specify the device end in the Pocket Programmer 2 software as "FFFFF" because I thought it would do that automatically when I selected the device. Terry, you use a PP2 to clone the Dallas chips right? Have you ever had to specify the device end, or did the software do it for you?

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post #13 of 32 Old 08-27-2008, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIR-Engineering View Post

When I pulled the Dallas chip yesterday it had a date code of 1999 so it's newer than I suspected. The replacement should be here no later then next Monday so I will change it ASAP. Question, I looked at the BIN file that my Pocket Programmer made of the Dallas chip and it's only 128 k. It should be 1 MB right?

Yeah Craigr, I did changed my own dallas chip one month ago and the original one has 1998 date code. 10 years is the expected life of such chip and I preffer to change it to be safe. This chip is 1Mbits (1Mb)thus 8bits x 128K so 128KB (#00000 'til #1FFFF).

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post #14 of 32 Old 08-27-2008, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIR-Engineering View Post

I think I may have just needed to specify the device end in the Pocket Programmer 2 software as "FFFFF" because I thought it would do that automatically when I selected the device. Terry, you use a PP2 to clone the Dallas chips right? Have you ever had to specify the device end, or did the software do it for you?

craigr

It's been a while so I am going from memory, but it seems to me that when I first start up the software, I specify or select the typ chip it is.

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post #15 of 32 Old 08-27-2008, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHWman View Post

Yeah Craigr, I did changed my own dallas chip one month ago and the original one has 1998 date code. 10 years is the expected life of such chip and I preffer to change it to be safe. This chip is 1Mbits (1Mb)thus 8bits x 128K so 128KB (#00000 'til #1FFFF).

John

John,

Isn't 1 MB FFFFF, not 1FFFF??? If I tell PP2 that I want to read for 0~FFFFF it generates a 1 MB file.

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post #16 of 32 Old 08-27-2008, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuchuf View Post

It's been a while so I am going from memory, but it seems to me that when I first start up the software, I specify or select the typ chip it is.

Terry

That's me too Terry... it's been a while and I am rusty You do select the chip from the PP2 software menu. The problem is that the image it made of the chip is only 128 k instead of 1 MB. So I think I also need to tell the software to read the entire range of addresses in addition to simply telling the software which chip I have.

I'll figure it out

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post #17 of 32 Old 08-27-2008, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, the shaking returned last night

I pulled he PA and PD boards and looked at all the solder joints under magnification... no joy because everything looked pretty good. I will say that the original flow wasn't the best though as all the joints are wrinkly.

John, you got a PA and PD I can borrow if I pay shipping?

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post #18 of 32 Old 08-27-2008, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIR-Engineering View Post

I don't use the warm up screen, I use real video to warm up. The image is about 3 mm from the edge of the tube's phosphors. I am actually planning to increase the throw distance by about an inch or so...

craigr

Try to pull the image in (maybe try 1 or 2 cm just for the test) and see if your problem presists. Make sure that you are starting the projector cold.
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post #19 of 32 Old 08-27-2008, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Try to pull the image in (maybe try 1 or 2 cm just for the test) and see if your problem presists. Make sure that you are starting the projector cold.

Tried that already... no joy

Thanks for the thought though.

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post #20 of 32 Old 08-27-2008, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIR-Engineering View Post

Well, the shaking returned last night

I pulled he PA and PD boards and looked at all the solder joints under magnification... no joy because everything looked pretty good. I will say that the original flow wasn't the best though as all the joints are wrinkly.

John, you got a PA and PD I can borrow if I pay shipping?

craigr

Craig,

I have one that I can get to you next week. I'm a bit closer than John.
email me your address to terfer@comcast.net

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post #21 of 32 Old 08-27-2008, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Craig,

I have one that I can get to you next week. I'm a bit closer than John.
email me your address to terfer@comcast.net

Terry

Supper sweet Terry, supper sweet. Thank you

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post #22 of 32 Old 08-27-2008, 09:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHWman View Post

Yeah Craigr, I did changed my own dallas chip one month ago and the original one has 1998 date code. 10 years is the expected life of such chip and I preffer to change it to be safe. This chip is 1Mbits (1Mb)thus 8bits x 128K so 128KB (#00000 'til #1FFFF).

John

Ohhh, I just reread this more carefully. It's a 1 Mb chip, not 1 MB... I see so it is 1FFFF.

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post #23 of 32 Old 08-28-2008, 02:24 AM
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Yes, Craigr,

The 'b' of bits was written in bold for this purpose
'B' is for Bytes (8 bits)

I do have a working spare G90 that I'm gonna sold in september so I do have PA/PD set of board but as said by Terry, I'm quite far from USA

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post #24 of 32 Old 08-28-2008, 04:58 AM
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Terry,

Do you have a test chasis down there that you could test a PA and a YA together? Also, John ran into a problem when trying to finish up the extender boards but hopefully Scott will get back to us soon so he can wrap those up for you guys.

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post #25 of 32 Old 08-28-2008, 06:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHWman View Post

Yes, Craigr,

The 'b' of bits was written in bold for this purpose
'B' is for Bytes (8 bits)

I do have a working spare G90 that I'm gonna sold in september so I do have PA/PD set of board but as said by Terry, I'm quite far from USA

John

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post #26 of 32 Old 09-06-2008, 09:26 AM
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In the old days shaking was caused by Ripple of power supply caps.

I would take a scope or a good meter and put it on the power mains that feed the unit. That make sure it has clean power at startup.

Once the power supply is eliminated then you should move onto the vertical and converg chips.

IF you pull the convergence completely take it off line then you can eliminate that circuit. You will have a messed up image but if there is no shift that will eliminate the converge boards.

One of the main chips is going south causing all three channels to shift.

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post #27 of 32 Old 09-06-2008, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
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Terry,

Do you have a test chasis down there that you could test a PA and a YA together? Also, John ran into a problem when trying to finish up the extender boards but hopefully Scott will get back to us soon so he can wrap those up for you guys.

Doc

I do.

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post #28 of 32 Old 09-07-2008, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geisemann View Post

In the old days shaking was caused by Ripple of power supply caps.

I would take a scope or a good meter and put it on the power mains that feed the unit. That make sure it has clean power at startup.

Once the power supply is eliminated then you should move onto the vertical and converg chips.

IF you pull the convergence completely take it off line then you can eliminate that circuit. You will have a messed up image but if there is no shift that will eliminate the converge boards.

One of the main chips is going south causing all three channels to shift.

Thank you Greg. I will try all of your suggestions. I am going these routes already, but it is nice to have others input as well

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post #29 of 32 Old 09-07-2008, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I do.

Terry

Terry, thank you so much for sending the boards. I installed them Friday afternoon and things seemed better. However, yesterday the G90 started shaking like the blazes for a few minutes so I guess the problem is not the PA or PD boards... sigh. I will mail your boards back tomorrow.

Guess it's time to break out the Tektronix oscope...

Also, Terry... your boards sometimes whine at high contrast, or certain contrast levels. If I smack the G90 in front near the boards it goes away. Just so you know, you might have a small issue with them I'd say that an inductor is whining at certain power draws. I had some fun with it yesterday... If I put up solid raster patterns I could make music by creating different tones between 30 and 100 IRE rasters

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post #30 of 32 Old 09-08-2008, 09:01 PM
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Craig, me is stupid when it comes to G90 , sorry I can't be of any help and that I don't own one

I have seen wacky fans cause image shake problems sometimes, no joke!!

hope you get it fixed dude

-Gary
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