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post #1 of 101 Old 03-08-2009, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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does anyone remember this announcement almost 3 years ago:


VDC's new 8" Marquee CRT projector

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thought you guys may be interested..

VDC DISPLAY SYSTEMS Announces Development of Ultra High Resolution Projection Solutions
Wednesday November 15, 1:49 pm ET


CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--VDC Display Systems, a division of Video Display Corporation (NASDAQ:VIDE - News), today announced the development of the first in a new series of high resolution projection systems for the simulation and training industry.
In close cooperation with Lexel Imaging Systems, a sister division of Video Display Corporation, VDC Display Systems has completed design and initial production of an 8" CRT-based projection system which displays up to 4 million resolvable pixels. The new Marquee Ultra 8500HR is available today in production quantities.

"Development of the Ultra 8500HR is an important milestone for VDC Display Systems, as well as Video Display Corporation," commented Marcial Vidal, Vice President of Operations for VDC Display Systems. "In response to requests from our integration customers as well as the marketplace in which they operate, we've taken the initiative to provide the next generation of very high resolution projection displays."

David Mutchler, President of VDC Display Systems states, "Announcement of the new Ultra 8500HR is one of a series of product announcements to come from VDC Display Systems in the coming months. Our new product developments are based upon proven and readily-available CRT technology, for which VDC is the industry leader, as well as newly developed non-CRT technologies such as the new Sony SXRD high resolution LCoS projector. Our goal is to provide and support our customers with a choice of high resolution displays that meet or exceed expectation."

Please stop by Video Display Corporation's Booth #1573 at this year's I/ITSEC Conference held on Dec. 4-Dec. 7 2006 at the Orange County International Convention Center in Orlando, Florida. Or contact mraines@vdcdisplaysystems.com for more information.

About Video Display Corporation

Video Display Corporation designs, develops and manufactures unique solutions for display requirements for military, medical and industrial uses with emphasis on high-end training and simulation applications. Its product offerings include ruggedized CRT and AMLCD displays as well as complete projection display systems utilizing VDC's Marquee(TM) and ESCP line of projectors. Video Display Corporation operates eight design and manufacturing plants plus additional sales facilities throughout the United States and Europe. For more information, visit the Company's web site at http://www.videodisplay.com

This press release contains forward-looking statements as that term is defined in the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Such statements are based on management's current expectations and are subject to a number of factors and uncertainties which could cause actual results to differ materially from those described herein.

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anyone seen one of those new HR projectors?

there was also a rumour about a new VIM and new neckboards




Michael
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post #2 of 101 Old 03-08-2009, 07:32 PM
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I think I have the Predecessor's of that PJ Check out this thread Micheal.


mine are a 2004 model but has the REv21 Vim, I have not looked at the VNB's yet.

The LongBows Are here!!!

here is a pic of the REv 21 Vim op amp section. This is a higher BW tweek TSE came up with , i bet its also on the 8500HR.



Athanasios
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post #3 of 101 Old 03-08-2009, 08:01 PM
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I think you haven't heard this enough Nash!! But YOU SUCK!!!!!!

PIXELS, We don't need no, stinking PIXELS!!!!!!

Why don't ponies need three eyes?????
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post #4 of 101 Old 03-08-2009, 08:41 PM
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http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...d.php?t=708814

This was the 8500HR. It was (is?) at least as sharp as 9" 'LUG sets. No one ever ordered any so nothing ever happened with it. Shame.

Scott
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post #5 of 101 Old 03-08-2009, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tse View Post

http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...d.php?t=708814

This was the 8500HR. It was (is?) at least as sharp as 9" 'LUG sets. No one ever ordered any so nothing ever happened with it. Shame.

Scott

Ahhhhh, so how close is the Longbow to the HR component wise?

Athanasios
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post #6 of 101 Old 03-08-2009, 09:02 PM
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Pretty much the same other than the tubes. The tubes are what made the high res part.

Scott
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post #7 of 101 Old 03-09-2009, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tse View Post

Pretty much the same other than the tubes. The tubes are what made the high res part.

Scott

Scott,

no improvements in the neckboards and VIM ?

there's no rumoured new VIM available for the new beasts ?


Michael
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post #8 of 101 Old 03-09-2009, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nidi View Post

Scott,

no improvements in the neckboards and VIM ?

there's no rumoured new VIM available for the new beasts ?


Michael

You missed the previous posts, the Marquee 8500 ultra LongBows i have are the ones with the new Vim And VNB's but they do not have the Tubes of the 8500HR, but the rest is the same, except the tubes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nashou66 View Post

Ahhhhh, so how close is the Longbow to the HR component wise?

Athanasios

Quote:
Originally Posted by tse View Post

Pretty much the same other than the tubes. The tubes are what made the high res part.

Scott



Athanasios
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post #9 of 101 Old 03-09-2009, 09:59 AM
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the problem with the 8500HR tubes was they cost more than LUGS, which means they don't really have a purpose AFAIK? To go 8 inch HR you would be paying more and actually losing some light output due to the reduced Phosphor area. If I remember correctly the 8500HRtubes were like $3500. each?

Marquee HD mod's Marquee Upgrade/re-build package
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post #10 of 101 Old 03-09-2009, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashou66 View Post

You missed the previous posts, the Marquee 8500 ultra LongBows i have are the ones with the new Vim And VNB's but they do not have the Tubes of the 8500HR, but the rest is the same, except the tubes.







Athanasios

Athanasios,

thanks, but I do have the same VIM as you have (my Marquee is from 04 as well)

nothing special to a normal VIM , say from a 1999 one.

Michael
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post #11 of 101 Old 03-09-2009, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nidi View Post

Athanasios,

thanks, but I do have the same VIM as you have (my Marquee is from 04 as well)

nothing special to a normal VIM , say from a 1999 one.

Michael

yes there is a difference from 1999, Scott added this Bandwidth peaking circuit.



I put a 03p vim to check the difference and the one in the pic above does resolve better.

Athanasios
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post #12 of 101 Old 03-09-2009, 11:26 AM
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The neck boards are the same as pre 2004, and so is the VIM. the only change was the peaking circuit. The difference with the 8500HR is the tubes and peaking circuit. Other than those two things, everything else is basically the same as what they were doing with the original 8500/9500 VIM and neck boards that was using the 02 VIM.

VDC has something different going on with both neck board and VIM, but you're not going find it in anything done at Electrohome. I've seen both, they are completely new designs. The neck boards have better bandwidth and black level performance. Scott has really taking things to an whole 'nother level..

It's all about the performance... Got Marquee!

 

High Performance Marquee Video chain modifications.  Now available!

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post #13 of 101 Old 03-09-2009, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Mike,

are those neckboards and VIM's on the market or still in development ?

any idea what bandwidth they can master ?

Michael
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post #14 of 101 Old 03-11-2009, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nidi View Post

Thanks Mike,

are those neckboards and VIM's on the market or still in development ?

any idea what bandwidth they can master ?

Michael

Only tse can answer this. But from what I know and understand, let me take a guestimated stab at it.

The boards being in development or production would be up to the decision makers at VDC. tse is the chief engineer and has done his part in making sure the Marquee is upgradable and would be ready for the newer bandwidth and performance requirements. That's probably part of his job, and he has done extremely well in that area. So he has done well keeping the Marquee upgradable and ready for whatever direction the folk that write the checks would want to take it.

Bandwidth is only one of the performance goals, and that's why he has also looked at improving black level of the neck boards. Not that an improvement was necessary, what he has done was an improvement that every CRT projector could benefit from. And because they were mostly designed for computer/graphics, I'm sure no one really thought about making things better for the low end for really deep blacks.

I can't say what I know here on exactly what he's doing, because when I was there these things were finished, functioning and some on proto boards. And they may not be in manufacture/production, so I won't assume things are ready to discuss or mention in any detail.

And to answer your question on bandwidth amount. I'll put it this way. A properly performing Marquee neck board has THE highest bandwidth performance of any CRT projector that I know of. The new neck board that I saw from VDC that tse has designed, has a higher bandwidth than the original stock neck boards from Electrohome. Without knowing what the bandwidth rating is, it's just good to know that it's the highest power single neck board that I know of. And I have Barco 909, G90, and Marquees here to support what I'm saying on this.

VDC and tse has took the Marquee into the 21st century. that would make the Marquee the only CRT projector to make the 21st century with new and redesigned boards.


It's all about the performance... Got Marquee!

 

High Performance Marquee Video chain modifications.  Now available!

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post #15 of 101 Old 03-11-2009, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748 View Post

Only tse can answer this. But from what I know and understand, let me take a guestimated stab at it.

The boards being in development or production would be up to the decision makers at VDC. tse is the chief engineer and has done his part in making sure the Marquee is upgradable and would be ready for the newer bandwidth and performance requirements. That's probably part of his job, and he has done extremely well in that area. So he has done well keeping the Marquee upgradable and ready for whatever direction the folk that write the checks would want to take it.

Bandwidth is only one of the performance goals, and that's why he has also looked at improving black level of the neck boards. Not that an improvement was necessary, what he has done was an improvement that every CRT projector could benefit from. And because they were mostly designed for computer/graphics, I'm sure no one really thought about making things better for the low end for really deep blacks.

I can't say what I know here on exactly what he's doing, because when I was there these things were finished, functioning and some on proto boards. And they may not be in manufacture/production, so I won't assume things are ready to discuss or mention in any detail.

And to answer your question on bandwidth amount. I'll put it this way. A properly performing Marquee neck board has THE highest bandwidth performance of any CRT projector that I know of. The new neck board that I saw from VDC that tse has designed, has a higher bandwidth than the original stock neck boards from Electrohome. Without knowing what the bandwidth rating is, it's just good to know that it's the highest power single neck board that I know of. And I have Barco 909, G90, and Marquees here to support what I'm saying on this.

VDC and tse has took the Marquee into the 21st century. that would make the Marquee the only CRT projector to make the 21st century with new and redesigned boards.


Thanks Mike,

so you think the Marquee is slightyly behind the G90 and Barcos when it comes to low level performance ?

how much of what you saw where you able to put into your design of the microns? are you still actively working on the Marquee ?

Thanks

Michael
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post #16 of 101 Old 03-11-2009, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nidi View Post

Thanks Mike,

so you think the Marquee is slightyly behind the G90 and Barcos when it comes to low level performance ?

No. it's actually better in that regard, especially with HD content.

What makes the marquee better in the low range is that it has a shorter video chain. A shorter video chain is much easier to control the pedestals than a more complex video chain that uses various pulses to keep the pedestals at reference. And it's never easy to maintain the pedestals for perfect blacks. And the more complex the circuits, the easier they float. The other good thing about the Marquee video chain is that it's almost Direct Coupled. It only has one coupling cap in the first stage of the chain. That allows for better and more accurate pedestal control, because it's only using one clamp circuit for each channel. This may sound a bit out there, but with HD signals that derives from digital component black sync (which is all HDTV), it's the worse signal to keep at reference. And that's why we've been having so much trouble with HD signals, black crush and low end wash-out.


Quote:
how much of what you saw where you able to put into your design of the microns? are you still actively working on the Marquee ?

I'm not really using anything that they're doing. I gained much from the experience and learning what to look for and how to measure things better.

What I'm doing is different. I'm using an existing design and improving on it. tse has done things from the ground up, but may use one of two stages that are similar to the original design. In my latest mods, I'm making sure the offsets are as perfect as possible. In some places of the stages I'm either adding or changing a few resistors to make sure I keep the offsets at reference. because if the offset is off, it's hard to maintain perfect pedestals. And there's also a thing called video linearity, where the low end can be crushed simply from the offset being off, and that would cause a non-linear ramp (test pattern).

I not only do better filtering, but I also decouple all of the data and control lines form the processor and other sections of the PJ. That greatly lowers noise in the low range and brings the low end out better.

Also with HD signals. the colors are better when the pedestals are right. the range of colors (pastels) and intensity of colors is better.


I hope to get back down to VDC this year. And If I'm able to make that happen. I know I'll come back once more better ideas and tools to make things better even more.

It's all about the performance... Got Marquee!

 

High Performance Marquee Video chain modifications.  Now available!

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post #17 of 101 Old 03-11-2009, 08:02 PM
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You know, it would be alot of fun to design stuff for home theater use but VDC makes its money from the simulator industry. So almost all of the new stuff is little use to most people here. Giant, powerful convergence amps, a monochrome projector that makes a picture about a foot square for head up display (HUD) of fighter plane instruments, a vertical deflection bd with crazy linearity controls for curved off axis screens. Alot of stuff for curved screens.

But, along the way we used up all of the Motorola transistors that are used on the neck card and had to design a new one. Since the decline of the CRT monitor industry video transistor selection has dried up. I am happy to say that the new card is equivalent to the old one with bandwidth good enough for QXGA (pixel clock=240MHz). The design is very similar to the old one, it really cant be much different. It has been in production for at least a year, I'm surprised that no one has got their hands on one and asked about it in the forums.

Scott
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post #18 of 101 Old 03-11-2009, 08:30 PM
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Very cool, Nathan told me about them( i assume it was them) in an email when I asked him about a LUG i got NIB. He told me i'd need a different VNB and there were two i could choose from one he said was a higher end model i guess its the one you just posted pics of. I didnt even bother asking him for a price.

Scott what is the model number and do you happen to know how much they are each?

Athanasios
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post #19 of 101 Old 03-12-2009, 04:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashou66 View Post

Very cool, Nathan told me about them( i assume it was them) in an email when I asked him about a LUG i got NIB. He told me i'd need a different VNB and there were two i could choose from one he said was a higher end model i guess its the one you just posted pics of. I didnt even bother asking him for a price.

Scott what is the model number and do you happen to know how much they are each?

Athanasios


group buy !!

Michael
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post #20 of 101 Old 03-12-2009, 05:22 AM
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Hey Scott,
Nice looking board, can't see too much detail, but the layout looks a lot better than the original board.


Would be nice to see the schematic for this board, would give us hobbists a couple of steps forward. As I have gone as far as I can with the current design.


Cheers
Steve

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post #21 of 101 Old 03-12-2009, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HK-Steve View Post

Hey Scott,
Nice looking board, can't see too much detail, but the layout looks a lot better than the original board.


Would be nice to see the schematic for this board, would give us hobbists a couple of steps forward. As I have gone as far as I can with the current design.


Cheers
Steve

I like the new location for the mini phono jack, and the airflow holes in the heat sink.

yeah a schematic be nice, let pitch and buy one guys and we can go from there, i'll dray up the board plans on eagle software.

Athanasios
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post #22 of 101 Old 03-12-2009, 07:55 AM
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Athanasios,
The holes in the heatsink are just for tightening the screws on the transistors.
Holes in a heatsink like that reduce the surface area for cooling, therefore are less efficient, but required with the new VNB design.


I like the location of the G2 input connector,
better than the video input, as video bnc is too close to the multi-pin connector and the 3x caps around it.


Also, there are more electro caps, rather than the solid tant caps used previously. Plus additional buffering cap installed.
Heater lines are better positioned, no cables over the input chip.




Cheers
Steve

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post #23 of 101 Old 03-12-2009, 08:14 AM
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Also those +-85volt line caps seems to be bigger now than those previous 22uF ones.
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post #24 of 101 Old 03-12-2009, 08:43 AM
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The schematic. 81771-01 is part number. This card is not compatable with original Electrohome style cards. P/N 02-270340-01 is new version but can be mixed with E-home cards.

Scott

 

81771-01_F.pdf 65.4189453125k . file

 

02-270340-01-04_A.pdf 65.2373046875k . file
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post #25 of 101 Old 03-12-2009, 09:09 AM
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Scott,
Thank you very much,
I will look at this schematic tonight.

Why the HFA1100??
There are better chips out there with better performance.


Much Appreciate your sharing of the schematics.
Will Chat soon

Cheers
Steve

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post #26 of 101 Old 03-12-2009, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tse View Post

The schematic. 81771-01 is part number. This card is not compatable with original Electrohome style cards. P/N 02-270340-01 is new version but can be mixed with E-home cards.

Scott

Thanks Scott, finally one bottleneck less in the chain.

with what is the 'incompartible card' compartible ? a new VIM ??

Thanks

Michael
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post #27 of 101 Old 03-12-2009, 10:18 AM
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TSE, thanks for sharing that info.
Intresting idea use asymmerical supply voltages to that U5, so there is no need dc-biasing resistor anymore. Also nice to see that there is little more capacitance at critical places.
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post #28 of 101 Old 03-12-2009, 10:47 AM
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They are doing a lot more high frequency filtering with those small value buffering caps, nice!! Looks what I am planing to do across the whole marquee chassis.

Steve lets chat via Skype a bit today maybe more tommorow.

Athanasios
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post #29 of 101 Old 03-12-2009, 10:53 AM
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Athanasios,
I am out tonight, as my oldest Son, Lawrence is in a play at school.

Will check on skype when we get back, but you will be at work.
Will be around tomorrow, will try to spend some time on the computer and chat then.



Chat soon
Cheers
Steve

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post #30 of 101 Old 03-12-2009, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nidi View Post

Thanks Scott, finally one bottleneck less in the chain.

with what is the 'incompartible card' compartible ? a new VIM ??

Thanks

Michael


I thought it might be the Protection circuit's would be different but that doesnt seem to be the case unless I am missing something.

Steve notice the differences between the two?

Athanasios
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