building a projector from a crt tv - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 51 Old 08-27-2009, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry if this thread already exists. I couldnt find it anywhere.

I was looking at getting a cheap projector, maybe one just for out-door movies, football games, ect.

I came accross this on EBAY.

http://cgi.ebay.com/220-Projector-Pa...ht_6980wt_1165

Its pretty much saying that you can get a lense, build a box and use an old crt tv to project it onto a screen.

1. Is this legit?
2. Will it look like crap?
3. Wont the picture be a mirrored image?

My wife wont let me get a bigger TV than the 65" mitsu I have, so I thought this would be a fun project. Let me know any thoughts or experiences with this.

Thanks

Ah, well, sir, I feel like a, like a slice of butter... melting on top of a big-ol' pile of flapjacks... yeah.
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post #2 of 51 Old 08-27-2009, 08:24 AM
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Forget the fact that you shouldn't believe everything you see on the internet, but just apply simple logic and basic high school science principals... and decide if this will work.
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post #3 of 51 Old 08-27-2009, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michanecash View Post

Sorry if this thread already exists. I couldnt find it anywhere.

I was looking at getting a cheap projector, maybe one just for out-door movies, football games, ect.

I came accross this on EBAY.

http://cgi.ebay.com/220-Projector-Pa...ht_6980wt_1165

Its pretty much saying that you can get a lense, build a box and use an old crt tv to project it onto a screen.

1. Is this legit?
2. Will it look like crap?
3. Wont the picture be a mirrored image?

My wife wont let me get a bigger TV than the 65" mitsu I have, so I thought this would be a fun project. Let me know any thoughts or experiences with this.

Thanks

I would say you could get a used entry level CRT with modestly brown tubes for two hundred dollars that would probably look quite a bit better than what I have seen of the images I saw a couple years ago with these kits. I am sure you could buy a used portable for as little as 300. You might even find someone on Craigslist offering a digital projector with a burnt out lamp for next to nothing. Personally its not for me because having a CRT I'd wouldn't be satisfied with the looks of a kit. But for someone who hasn't owned a projector, they might be impressed. Like you said, its a project and might be fun for you.
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post #4 of 51 Old 08-27-2009, 08:36 AM
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that add is a joke and ensares suckers who have zero understanding of projection and how it works. Don't waste your 15 dollars.
if you want a fun project just buy a CRT projector. Learning how to install it and set it up properly is quite the learning curve in and of itself. For a few hundred bucks you will be rewarded with something worth having. This Marquee 8500 for $500 bucks is reasonable, especially since you won't have to deal with freight

http://annapolis.craigslist.org/ele/1297538389.html

Marquee HD mod's Marquee Upgrade/re-build package
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post #5 of 51 Old 08-27-2009, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verge2 View Post

Forget the fact that you shouldn't believe everything you see on the internet, but just apply simple logic and basic high school science principals... and decide if this will work.

Well I don't believe everything I read on the internet which is why its posted in this forum....

And basic science says that if you put light through a lens it will disperse or focus it depending on whether its concave of convex.

Ah, well, sir, I feel like a, like a slice of butter... melting on top of a big-ol' pile of flapjacks... yeah.
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post #6 of 51 Old 08-27-2009, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draganm View Post

that add is a joke and ensares suckers who have zero understanding of projection and how it works. Don't waste your 15 dollars.
if you want a fun project just buy a CRT projector. Learning how to install it and set it up properly is quite the learning curve in and of itself. For a few hundred bucks you will be rewarded with something worth having. This Marquee 8500 for $500 bucks is reasonable, especially since you won't have to deal with freight

http://annapolis.craigslist.org/ele/1297538389.html

are CRT projectors the same as the movie theaters projectors? I do not know much about them.

Ah, well, sir, I feel like a, like a slice of butter... melting on top of a big-ol' pile of flapjacks... yeah.
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post #7 of 51 Old 08-27-2009, 09:34 AM
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go visit Curt Palme's web site http://www.curtpalme.com/; Curt buys up CRTs, refurbs them and sells/support them. He also fixes broken CRTs (he repaired my Dwin HD700 and did a wonderful job). Plenty of info there on how to install and setup.

no connection except as a happy customer

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post #8 of 51 Old 08-27-2009, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michanecash View Post

Sorry if this thread already exists. I couldnt find it anywhere.

I was looking at getting a cheap projector, maybe one just for out-door movies, football games, ect.

I came accross this on EBAY.

http://cgi.ebay.com/220-Projector-Pa...ht_6980wt_1165

Its pretty much saying that you can get a lense, build a box and use an old crt tv to project it onto a screen.

1. Is this legit?
2. Will it look like crap?
3. Wont the picture be a mirrored image?

My wife wont let me get a bigger TV than the 65" mitsu I have, so I thought this would be a fun project. Let me know any thoughts or experiences with this.

Thanks

Look up Lumenlab DIY projector. This ebay seller just provides you with a fresnel lens; you'd still need an LCD monitor, lamp, condenser lens, and wood/hardware to make a box to hold everything together. Final cost could be around $350 (maybe more, maybe less).

I think it would be a fun project, but don't expect the quality to match an entry level 720p digital projector that you can get for ~$700 brand new.

PS - if you're thinking that you'd just stick the fresnel lens in front of an old CRT and project on the wall, then yes you'll get a large image. It will look like crap (unfocused, geometry distortion, chromatic aberration). On the other hand, it'll be so dim it might take some of the edge off the crappiness.
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post #9 of 51 Old 08-27-2009, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michanecash View Post

And basic science says that if you put light through a lens it will disperse or focus it depending on whether its concave of convex.

But it's a fresnel...
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post #10 of 51 Old 08-27-2009, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by michanecash View Post

are CRT projectors the same as the movie theaters projectors? I do not know much about them.

No. But I consider CRTs one of the best choices for someone who wants a movie theater experience in their home. I don't usually try to steer someone away from a CRT but it sounds like for what you want to do, you need a digital. CRTs require a dark room. If you want to play outside on a wall you will benefit from the added brightness and portability of a digital.
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post #11 of 51 Old 08-28-2009, 05:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by atomiccow View Post

No. But I consider CRTs one of the best choices for someone who wants a movie theater experience in their home. I don't usually try to steer someone away from a CRT but it sounds like for what you want to do, you need a digital. CRTs require a dark room. If you want to play outside on a wall you will benefit from the added brightness and portability of a digital.

Thanks. I think you are right. Though, when I do get a home theater projector for a dedicated room in the future, I will definately, look into CRT PJs. I honestly had never heard of them. Thanks for all the info guys.

Ah, well, sir, I feel like a, like a slice of butter... melting on top of a big-ol' pile of flapjacks... yeah.
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post #12 of 51 Old 08-28-2009, 07:37 AM
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There've been kits available to do this for years...I saw one installed back in the 80s. I was to oyoung to wonder what kind of lens(es) it used, etc... but it used a curved screen, and was extremely susceptible to ambient light (as are all FPJs... Picture lacked a lot, but it wasn't mounted on the finest quality CRT either...

Go for it. Fun project. Post your results. don't expect greatness. But have fun doing it and learn in the process.

-Greg
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post #13 of 51 Old 08-28-2009, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by glaufman View Post

There've been kits available to do this for years...I saw one installed back in the 80s. I was to oyoung to wonder what kind of lens(es) it used, etc... but it used a curved screen, and was extremely susceptible to ambient light (as are all FPJs... Picture lacked a lot, but it wasn't mounted on the finest quality CRT either...

Go for it. Fun project. Post your results. don't expect greatness. But have fun doing it and learn in the process.

I might give it try this fall, as I have a couple old CRT tvs lying around. What size would be best.

Ah, well, sir, I feel like a, like a slice of butter... melting on top of a big-ol' pile of flapjacks... yeah.
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post #14 of 51 Old 08-28-2009, 03:11 PM
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THere's a full DIY forum for people building their own digital projectors with overhead panels, etc. I think you're better off trying your hand at a computer LCD panel and light source than building one out of an old CRT projector. (me, suggest digital? WTF! )

I think your time and material costs will be the same, and a digital one will give better results.

www.curtpalme.com - CRT tech info

www.soundsolutionscanada.com -pro audio website
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post #15 of 51 Old 08-28-2009, 04:39 PM
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this is what your looking to do, this is with a Non CRT REAR unit but the same could possibly done with a CRT but you might need to make some kind of Lens adaptors that have a larger throw. Might be a neat project and I would only do it if you have a 9 inch set and maybe go to only 80 or 90 inch.

http://www.bonmul.com/convert-your-r...e-theater.html







But I still think a nice used marquee or Barco from Curt will make you more happy.




Athanasios
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post #16 of 51 Old 08-31-2009, 05:41 AM - Thread Starter
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wow! thanks for sharing the pictures. It gives me a good idea of what it will be like. I follow up with posts if I end up attempting it.

Thanks everyone.

Ah, well, sir, I feel like a, like a slice of butter... melting on top of a big-ol' pile of flapjacks... yeah.
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post #17 of 51 Old 08-31-2009, 06:21 AM
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GAHHH! NO! Nash, don't mislead this guy! That ebay ad is one of those f*cking scam things where they sell you a fresnel to stick in front of a *DIRECT VIEW CRT* that gives you a big, dim, blurry, piece of **** image if any at all. It is a RIP OFF pure and simple.

* IT IS NOT LUMENLAB
* IT IS NOT CONVERSION OF AN RPTV
* IT IS A RIPOFF


To the OP: It is NOT LEGIT, it IS A RIPOFF. Did I mention that it IS A RIPOFF?

Forget that ebay link. Throw it out. Ignore it.

Digging up a CRT projector, or converting an actual RPTV, is an option, but neither of those things has ANYTHING to do with the link you posted originally! The guys here (aside from draganm) aren't realizing what scam this is for some reason. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not fall for it. If you want to waste your time, you can buy a fresnel on your own for far less rather than rewarding goddamned scam artists like that ebay scum!
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post #18 of 51 Old 08-31-2009, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by PeriSoft View Post

GAHHH! NO! Nash, don't mislead this guy! That ebay ad is one of those f*cking scam things where they sell you a fresnel to stick in front of a *DIRECT VIEW CRT* that gives you a big, dim, blurry, piece of **** image if any at all. It is a RIP OFF pure and simple.

* IT IS NOT LUMENLAB
* IT IS NOT CONVERSION OF AN RPTV
* IT IS A RIPOFF


To the OP: It is NOT LEGIT, it IS A RIPOFF. Did I mention that it IS A RIPOFF?

Forget that ebay link. Throw it out. Ignore it.

Digging up a CRT projector, or converting an actual RPTV, is an option, but neither of those things has ANYTHING to do with the link you posted originally! The guys here (aside from draganm) aren't realizing what scam this is for some reason. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not fall for it. If you want to waste your time, you can buy a fresnel on your own for far less rather than rewarding goddamned scam artists like that ebay scum!

Oh I don't plan on purchasing it. I was informed it was a scam earlier in this thread. I appreciate the feedback about the RPTV and the like. I think I may just order a Fresnel lens online (not through eBay scammers) and see what type of image it produces, more out of scientific curiosity than anything else. I think for what I am looking for long term I will have to get a digital projector.

I have enjoyed looking at the CRT PJs though. They seem like an excellent option that I have not heard of before. They seem to be a little to good to be true though. If they are so cheap now and have such great pictures, why are they not all over the place. I need to research more.

Now knowing that the Fresnel lens is a scam. I cant help but scratch my head at the hundreds of positive reviews on eBay. Odd...

Ah, well, sir, I feel like a, like a slice of butter... melting on top of a big-ol' pile of flapjacks... yeah.
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post #19 of 51 Old 08-31-2009, 11:17 AM
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Peri that is not the same guy, this guy just took his existing RPTV and bought a larger Rear Projection Screen. thats all. That guy on E-bay is a scammer.

Athanasios
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post #20 of 51 Old 08-31-2009, 04:12 PM
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Hello

You don't need to pay 15 bucks for plans and such...you can find all that online without paying for it...

I think the OP is taking about using a direct view CRT to do this! (..this part of the forum is for CRT projection....three tubes and three lenses....and the screen is in the front!)

..what you are looking for is a used chassis out of a panasonic for example RPTV/CRT tv...

They could be had for next to nothing on CL. (...as long as you are willing to pick it up from the owner!)

Lets say you find Panasonic PT-56WX53. (..decent model that goes all the way to 1080i and has component inputs! PQ is good on it too!)

You will then need to take it apart and get the chassis out ....(don't forget the mirrors!)
The lenses are for a small screen but you can replace them with better ones and get something like a 80 inch screen...but I would not go bigger than that!)

Now that is the cheapest way to go, but keep in mind that you will need some skills and understanding of the technology to be able to get a decent picture out to a big screen...so there is a learning curve here!

My/others advise here would be to find a used decent shape M8500 and set it up for a 96" screen! (...it will go much bigger but that is kinda like the sweet spot for the HD8's that come stock on it!)

A M8500 could be had for as little as 300 bucks...but look for one with decent tubes and you will probably pay around 800/1000 bucks for it...

Once you get that get a first gen Moome card that had component/dvi on it.

...Then you are set!

There is no substitute for a 100 plus inch picture on your bedroom wall to enjoy the latest movies in bed! (...among other things!)


BTW...with a digital. (...short of paying 35 ks for a triple dlp or something...even those aren't that great compared to a top of the line 9 inch CRT that has been properly setup!)...ALL YOU WILL GET IS A DIGITAL PICTURE!!! (...not to mention the accompanying junk that comes with that technology!)

Good luck

Martin
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post #21 of 51 Old 08-31-2009, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michanecash View Post

....
I have enjoyed looking at the CRT PJs though. They seem like an excellent option that I have not heard of before. They seem to be a little to good to be true though. If they are so cheap now and have such great pictures, why are they not all over the place. I need to research more. ...

head on over to Curt Palme's site and read his CRT primer Paper. It will explain some thing to you. The reason they are not all over the place is when they first came out , before Digital was around , they were very expensive the
Sony G90 was over 60k and the Vidikron Vision series (Electrohome and now VDC Marquee's) Pj's were close to 50k new. also they needed someone who was knowledgeable to set them up. Lots of adjustments and proper placement of a 150 to 250 pound PJ is not for the faint of heart. plus how many Wives/Girlfreinds would allow that huge piece of gear to be right over their head?

But the Image they produce...Oh man the fluidity and film like textures and the deep deep black are to die for. another bonus is these things last. The marquee series started in 1992 or close to it, thats over 17 years ago and they are still around just like the other manufacturers Pj's, some over 25 years. And the later version Marquees and Sony's can do 1080p. But to truly appreciate them you have to go see a well set up and color calibrated one for yourself. look for someone in your area who has a CRT Projector and make up your own mind.

Actually Stefeul , a memeber here is in Marshfield MA. He has a nice Ampro 4600 HD i bet he would love to show you.

Athanasios
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post #22 of 51 Old 08-31-2009, 04:58 PM
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michanecash

...the reason they are not everywhere is because of their original price tag and not for everyday folks as far as setup and equipments is concerned! (...that and the consumers lack of knowledge/intelligence when it comes to shiny little objects with pulsing blue lights for the power buttons that match the lights on their microwaves and cell phones!)


...these days folks are looking for electronics they can hang on the wall and compare to their neighbors gears! (...never mnd watching it and comparing the PQ...I have seen folks using composite from their HD STB to that shinny new 55 inch LCD that their had to mortgage the house for to get! HEY THERE IT IS ITS WORKING!)

...also seen PS3s connected using S video to the same displays for blue ray watching: look I got a bluray player...I am styling now!

Needless to say that the grand majority of consumers are completely in the dark when it comes to specs and technology! (...they usually go with the "higher number or price" must be better rule of thumb! ...never mind setting it up properly or tweaking it for the best PQ....It is sad really!)

I mean with a CRT you will need a VP and a decent source device to get the most out of it....and with the majority of the top end stuff you need pro gear. not to mention a certain amount of tech knowledge to be able to set it up properly!

And with these type of "consumers" you cannot possibly justify a VP or a SDI player! (Let alone a CRT projector....because it has "three bulbs" and they are old "obsolete" technology!!! (...not to mention the size and the setup! Morons really! I don't even try to explain anymore!)

Like Nashoo was saying...most folks have never seen a proper image/PQ...so they are happy with their plasma/lcd that crush colors and have no detail.(..not to mention 3 dimentionality!)

Once you get one of these beasts setup properly... chances are you will not even gonna enjoy even the Pj in your local theater!


...nothing comes close to the PQ that I get out of a M9500 to my 12 feet screen!

Most people after seeing my theater trip when I tell then that the PJ was made in 96!

The usual stuff that I hear before they watch a movie with me is: "Dude you need to upgrade to a XY and Z digital...how retro is that 3 bulb projector...how could you watch a Bluray on that thing?"

....suffice to say they usually ask me for more info once they see it in action!

Just do some reading and then go see someone else's CRT and see for yourself!

Martin

Here is a couple of pics of a Panasonic 50 inch CRT that was left on my street last night. (I took off the chassis and brought it home! I change a 25 cent resistor on the power supply and it now runs!

...the tubes are in very decent shape too for a chassis this old I would have expected them to be toast, but they don't even have visible wear!!!...makes me wonder how long this tv was just sitting in someones garage before the wife convinced the husband to through it out on my street non the less! hey must have know that I love these things!!!

...at this point I am just gonna play with it and probably give it to a family member once I figure out how to switch the picture on it for front projection!!! ...too bad these don't have the dips like the marquees!

I am sure my nieces/nephews will enjoy watching a big screen movie/or a game in the yard!

BTW: this is the 6th or 7th chassis that I am resurrecting! oh and those are dead bugs in the lenses that I have not taken out yet!)
LL
LL
LL
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post #23 of 51 Old 09-01-2009, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you both for the info.

I does sound like a great PJ. I will deffinately look into getting one when the wife lets me go bigger, which will probably be soon with my persistence. I am very picky about black levels and having a clear and acurate picture, so it sounds like I may seriously get one in the future.

So what kind of inputs do these have? I assume you have to run everything digital through a receiver first.

If anyone has one in the Northern VA area I would love to preview it. I will bring the beer.

Ah, well, sir, I feel like a, like a slice of butter... melting on top of a big-ol' pile of flapjacks... yeah.
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post #24 of 51 Old 09-01-2009, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by michanecash View Post

Thank you both for the info.

I does sound like a great PJ. I will deffinately look into getting one when the wife lets me go bigger, which will probably be soon with my persistence. I am very picky about black levels and having a clear and acurate picture, so it sounds like I may seriously get one in the future.

So what kind of inputs do these have? I assume you have to run everything digital through a receiver first.

If anyone has one in the Northern VA area I would love to preview it. I will bring the beer.

In VA you have William Kosmann with a Marquee 9500LC Blend( two CRT Projectors edgeblended on one screen) he is having a meet in October http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1142124 and is 37 minuts from you.

In Washington DC area you have the Master Marquee Modifier and tech Mike Parker. I am sure both would like to show you there projectors.

there are some great screen shots from Mike and My own marquee 8500 Blend you can see here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post17058487


Athanasios
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post #25 of 51 Old 09-01-2009, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nashou66 View Post

In VA you have William Kosmann with a Marquee 9500LC Blend( two CRT Projectors edgeblended on one screen) he is having a meet in October http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1142124 and is 37 minuts from you.

In Washington DC area you have the Master Marquee Modifier and tech Mike Parker. I am sure both would like to show you there projectors.

there are some great screen shots from Mike and My own marquee 8500 Blend you can see here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post17058487


Athanasios


HOLY SH*& those look amazing. They do blow digital PJs out of the water. The detail is tremendous.

Well if anyone (Master Marquee Modifier and tech Mike Parker) would like to give me a demonstration I would appreciate it.

Ah, well, sir, I feel like a, like a slice of butter... melting on top of a big-ol' pile of flapjacks... yeah.
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post #26 of 51 Old 09-01-2009, 12:01 PM
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...another happy convert?

Martin
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post #27 of 51 Old 09-01-2009, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prehjan View Post

...another happy convert?

Martin

I have seen the light....from a CRT PJ. I am sold. What kind of screen do you use?

Ah, well, sir, I feel like a, like a slice of butter... melting on top of a big-ol' pile of flapjacks... yeah.
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post #28 of 51 Old 09-01-2009, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michanecash View Post

I have seen the light....from a CRT PJ. I am sold. What kind of screen do you use?

Right now for the Blend I have a older Da-Lite model B pull down with
a 1.3 gain screen 140 inch wide. I plan to go to a 13 foot wide Hurly unity gain screen. This Morning I began tearing apart my Dropped Ceiling and digging through the layers of rigid and batt insulation and the the ceiling of the room to get to the floor joists. My theater is a room inside the basement that is decoupled from the floor joist, i have 10.5 foot hight basment .

Pic of my CRT Collection(partial)



Athanasios
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post #29 of 51 Old 09-01-2009, 03:26 PM
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...that is certainly nice to meet someone with enough sense that when they see something "better" they understand the difference and put aside the "digital is better" brainwashed mumbo jumbo (...most consumers are suffering from it!)

Welcome to the "dark side" Mikey!!!

As far as screen is concerned I use a painted wall (...commercial white from Dunn and Edwards) with a goo systems clear coat on top that I had gotten with a gray screen paint for my digital when I first got into this projection hobby/addiction!

As far as gain is concerned I would estimate 1.3 to 1.5!

Nashoo...I thought I was bad...but it always nice to see someone else suffering from the same "disease"! (HEHE!)


Martin
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post #30 of 51 Old 09-02-2009, 05:50 AM - Thread Starter
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so i am guessing that Blend refers to multiple CRT PJs blended together into one picture?

Well maybe you guys can help me plan this out. I wont be able to realistically complete this until later this fall or even after xmas, but I want to start planning it out.

I have read through most of Curt Palmes website. I think I have a pretty basic understanding of the technology.

My budget will be under $1000. Any suggestions on what I should get?

Ah, well, sir, I feel like a, like a slice of butter... melting on top of a big-ol' pile of flapjacks... yeah.
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