Looking for something that does multi-point gamma correction without analog to digital conversion. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 01-21-2013, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking for something that has similar capabilities to the Lumagen Radiance with regard to gamma correction, but I need something that is analog in and analog out, with no digital conversion in between.

Were there any such devices produced in the past? I imagine there could have been demand for something like that in the 90's, and it would probably resemble a graphic equalizer electronically.
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post #2 of 14 Old 01-21-2013, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRTFTW View Post

I'm looking for something that has similar capabilities to the Lumagen Radiance with regard to gamma correction, but I need something that is analog in and analog out, with no digital conversion in between.

Were there any such devices produced in the past? I imagine there could have been demand for something like that in the 90's, and it would probably resemble a graphic equalizer electronically.

what source do you plan on using? The Older Lumagen HDP/HDQ's will do this.

The DVI outs can also be used for RGBHV of you happen to find one with out RGBHV BNC outs.

Athanasios
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post #3 of 14 Old 01-21-2013, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Both of those Lumagens have this on their specs page:
Quote:
- 10 bit DAC for analog outputs

I don't think that can be bypassed. I'm sure that even analog signals are converted to digital internally for modification before they are converted back to analog for the display.

I'll be using this for all the game consoles released between 1999 and 2002, and the Wii. Those were all 480p, and 480p material is darker on my display than higher-res material. Keeping the entire signal path analog ensures there won't be any signal delay due to digital conversion.
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post #4 of 14 Old 01-21-2013, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRTFTW View Post

Both of those Lumagens have this on their specs page:
I don't think that can be bypassed. I'm sure that even analog signals are converted to digital internally for modification before they are converted back to analog for the display.

I'll be using this for all the game consoles released between 1999 and 2002, and the Wii. Those were all 480p, and 480p material is darker on my display than higher-res material. Keeping the entire signal path analog ensures there won't be any signal delay due to digital conversion.

I have used these and there is no delay at all.

Athanasios
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post #5 of 14 Old 01-21-2013, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Did you use them for video games though? It's impossible to notice 3/60ths of a second delay when you're watching a movie, but when you're playing a fighting game or racing game it's painfully obvious.

And I'm sure if there any pure analog models out there, they're probably pretty cheap on the secondhand market.
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post #6 of 14 Old 01-21-2013, 05:09 PM
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What about GammaX and a HDFury?

I am also linking one of the foremost lag testers to this post for his input. Nintygaming.
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post #7 of 14 Old 01-21-2013, 05:38 PM
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I know of no VP that will do CMS in the analog only Domain.

Right now Lumagen HD series are going for about 200-300 bucks. Not a big expense and if it delays too much you
could always sell it for what you bought it.

Only thing is the Lumagen does not accept 1080p@60. So that might be a down side.


And i doubt the delay is 3/60ths of second, i bet its in the milliseconds.

I did briefly use a wii on my set up( with another VP in the mix as well I blend CRT's) and never noticed any delay issues.

have you noticed them in someones set up which is the reason your voicing these concerns?

Neon, those do not have multi point Gamma correction.

Athanasios
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post #8 of 14 Old 01-21-2013, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by neonsky View Post

What about GammaX and a HDFury?

HD Fury converts HDMI to RGBHV, so that doesn't help me here. GammaX just deals with deep black, I need gamma correction for the whole spectrum. Actually my main issue is that I need to adjust the upper middle whites, I need to make them darker.
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post #9 of 14 Old 01-21-2013, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nashou66 View Post


have you noticed them in someones set up which is the reason your voicing these concerns?

I've noticed delay on Sony HD CRT I used to use. Those TV's actually digitally process analog signals before they convert them back to analog for the electron guns. In 480p mode, even though there is no scaling, there was noticeable delay caused by the color processing, especially in wide mode. So that experience has made me wary of using any digital processing with my analog stuff.

I'm hoping there is some HT stuff from the 90's that just used a series of sliders and potentiometers that someone here knows about. Honestly I don't even know which words I should search for on Google and Ebay. Gamma Adjuster? Gamma Equalizer? Grayscale calibrator? All those terms are bringing up mostly computer software.
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post #10 of 14 Old 01-21-2013, 06:39 PM
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I use a Blend Processor for dual CRT projectors, so I have looked far and wide for multi point gamma correction as a blend needs identical Gamma and greyscale between Projectors to eliminate any visual blend zone. I have not found any
multipoint gamma corection devises in the analog domain. If you find a HDP or HDQ just buy it. I have two Extra HDQ's I would have sold you one but I Am keeping them , just because I can't see selling them. I like them that much.


So Id say try it if you find them because you'll never know till you try.

You'll need a Probe and software as well to get Gamma and greyscale to specs.

Athanasios
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post #11 of 14 Old 01-21-2013, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, you're definitely an authority on this sort of the thing because of your unique setup. Looks like I might have to study the service manual for my monitor and see if there's anything in there I can tinker with.

As far as calibration, my plan was to throw test patterns on my other monitor, a Sony PVM formerly used for endoscopy, as a reference. I'm still looking into other options too, like line doubling, which would have the effect of making my picture much brighter at 480p.
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post #12 of 14 Old 01-21-2013, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neonsky View Post

What about GammaX and a HDFury?

I am also linking one of the foremost lag testers to this post for his input. Nintygaming.

Oh wow, I think there's been a big misunderstanding. While I have tested lag on a few TV's that I own, I'm actually not a lag tester per say (I don't have Leo Bodnar's testing device), I've just done waaaaay too much research and found out alot of stuff, most of which I wish I would have never known (its gets pretty annoyingly frustrating simply because the HD era has created more problems than solutions and is literally driving me to the point in which I am on the verge of hating anything HD).

In regards to your thread topic, I'm actually kinda confused as to what your needs are, as I've never done any research into such a device.
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post #13 of 14 Old 01-22-2013, 12:30 PM
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Sorry to throw you under the bus then nintygaming.
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post #14 of 14 Old 01-25-2013, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CRTFTW View Post

IWere there any such devices produced in the past? I imagine there could have been demand for something like that in the 90's, and it would probably resemble a graphic equalizer electronically.
Nope. Because there was no demand as CRT tracked gamma pretty well as long as you had a single (low end) point to adjust, but mostly because doing something like that well in the analog domain without messing up the signal would be very difficult (almost impossible?) to do.

In digital it's easy.

Kal
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