Screenshot War CRT vs Digital 2015-2016 - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 340 Old 03-22-2016, 06:50 PM
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I have no screenshots to contribute, just some observations.

Last evening I visited a good friend's house and we watched Frozen (Hey, I'd never seen it!) in his very nice home theater, which he designed and built by hand, featuring a JVC D-ILA RS40 projector and TWO Contrabass subwoofers and a curved Stewart screen in the 140" class.

He uses an anamorphic lens to make full use of all available pixels.

It looked fantastic, probably as good as you ever see in a good cinema with state of the art digital projection equipment.

So, today I went out and bought a few Blu-Ray movies, Frozen being one of them.

And I watched it again, tonight, on my own system, which is much more basic but features an MP modded Marquee 9500LC and it's in need of a maintenance cycle. There are some floaters in the glycol and the blue tube's glycol is getting a bit of the murk so it's time for a flush, clean, and refill.

I'm sure looking forward to completing the overhaul cycle and having the PJ in absolutely top condition. Incidentally, my tubes are still totally minty, with under 500 hours on them. I reserve the projector only for movie nights, and don't put hours on it with TV content.

Input is straight from the Sony blu-ray player to the Moome HDMI input card, with nothing in between but an inexpensive 20 foot HDMI cable.

My projector isn't even fully and properly aligned right now. I've been having trouble getting the astig just right, and there may even be a problem with the astig system.

That being said, I watched a better looking movie tonight. The Marquee has a depth to the image, and a saturated quality to the image that goes beyond mere color saturation, that is hard to explain but easy to see.

It's like the visual equivalent of changing from a mono sound system to a stereo system. Not a lot changes, but it changes it a lot.

Digital wins for brightness and screen size and convenience, but the total picture quality throne is still occupied by the mighty cathode ray tube, as far as I'm concerned.
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post #32 of 340 Old 03-23-2016, 09:30 AM
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VDC Marquee 9553LC Ultra, Moome V3 MP mods sourced AVForum.


JVC sourced from a French review site (forgot to mention)

Last edited by Kevin 3000; 03-26-2016 at 02:19 AM.
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post #33 of 340 Old 03-25-2016, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stridsvognen View Post
I been looking on these last shots, and can see that some of my screenshots has been used as comparison, compressed, and exif files is no longer presented.

There is no doubt what pics i think looks the best, but i think it would be a good idea with a set of rules for a competition like this.

I see that there is some using lots and lots of processing/ enhancement, noticed Tom Cruise have been digitaly shaved, and some breakfast addet to his chin.

So ill like to know whats the main idea is about this competition, do we need to tweak the image to how we would like it to look like using enhancement and image manipulation, or are we trying to produce images showing as much of the source material as natural/ untouched as possible.?

Also wonder why this thread is located in the CRT section, as its started by someone representing digital, maybe it should be moved.?

Yea those images aren't a fair comparison.
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post #34 of 340 Old 03-28-2016, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg1292 View Post
Looks like the JVC has color issues and the picture/exposure is all wrong as it is severly blown out/neon green? Proper
exposure and the image will collapse even more. Just the nature of JVC screenshots as Kurt has shown on AVF. page 38
for reference.

You are right here Greg1292 watching both pictures the CRT picture win big time in my eyes. The JVC picture look fake and everything looks wrong.
I have taken the same and post it here, looks better and more fair.
But we like what we like, and nothing can change that. One thing for shore Crt with the MP mod you use looks great, and to me it looks like a great improvement to the marquee, And your guys pictures look very nice.
Here we can say what picture we like best, and that will be different from person to person.
Would be fun if someone took the same pictures I put out when I started the thread. Use what upload you like, just make shore you get god quality. This because if someone zoom in the size of megapixels used matter. My camera manages max 4272x2848.


Here the picture form JVC RS600 The CRT first



Marquee picture.



JVC RS600

Together zoomed inn the same Marquee on the left and RS600 on the right.











Last edited by Dj Dee; 03-28-2016 at 04:31 PM.
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post #35 of 340 Old 03-29-2016, 04:22 AM
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VDC Marquee 9553LC Ultra, Moome V3 MP mods
Exif reports sharpness HARD saturation LOW.




upload picture


JVC X90
Exif intact.

Last edited by Kevin 3000; 03-29-2016 at 07:15 AM.
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post #36 of 340 Old 03-29-2016, 04:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTopo View Post
The JVC seems some kind of over sharpened ?!
Jepp way to over sharpened, and the CRT looked more correct to me. Then post 5
I think I have that form the X500 I have a look and post it.
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post #37 of 340 Old 03-29-2016, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin 3000 View Post
VDC Marquee 9553LC Ultra, Moome V3 MP mods
Exif reports sharpness HARD saturation LOW.




JVC X90
Exif all NORMAL


Link to EXIF data......
https://nis.nikonimagespace.com/html...thpZ1uGCesxVXM


Use Postimage goodnd easy
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post #38 of 340 Old 03-29-2016, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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[quote=Kevin 3000;42799754]VDC Marquee 9553LC Ultra, Moome V3 MP mods
Exif reports sharpness HARD saturation LOW.








Here form the X500 also from November. Also included with and without e-shift. Main picture with E-shift





Last edited by Dj Dee; 04-01-2016 at 03:18 AM.
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post #39 of 340 Old 03-29-2016, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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@Kevin 3000
Have you had some sort of calibrating on your X90?
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post #40 of 340 Old 03-30-2016, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
@Kevin 3000
Have you had some sort of calibrating on your X90?

Spyder 4 JVCs Auto Calibration.

@Stridsvognen
Exif data intact click on image save/properties - Luck alignment - You are the calibrator with the latest CRT Mods, partisipate or accept my judgements.

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post #41 of 340 Old 03-30-2016, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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In here we post our best pictures, every picture in here can be used for compartment for fun.
And pictures does not show what projector is the best at all. Only who have the best picture.
Here there is a lot of different opinions, and there is no correct answer only what each of us like and prefferanses.
People that want to start discussions can freely leave this thread.
This is for fun and a friendlyScreenshot war and will prove nothing else how god you are behind camera.
And get the BEST CRT pictures shown to keep it alive Better or Not, does not matter HAVE FUN we like what we like
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post #42 of 340 Old 03-31-2016, 05:26 AM
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Bickering removed, infractions issued, this time. Thread bans if it keeps up.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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post #43 of 340 Old 04-01-2016, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg1292 View Post
You actually should post shots with the RS600 I have this shot waiting for you at least 3mb file size should be good. Since you started this
thread I want to see your best so I can post my best. You may have the better shot or not by not trying you will never know. But you will
need to be 50% better than what you posted. Crt can do this shot.
Bring it
The X500 is a really god shot and natural . Give it a go, you have a great CRT

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post #44 of 340 Old 04-01-2016, 08:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Here the RS600
Not a big difference form the X500 on photo I think. But specs better and visual Eye candy for shore.



Newly calibrated D65 REC 709 HDTV
MPC setting 5,2,0,0 E-shift ON
Clair black LOW
16-235 Video level
Low lamp Iris -10 measure 14,7FL Contrast 101000:1
Gamma 2,4
Enjoy

Last edited by Dj Dee; 04-01-2016 at 08:45 AM.
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post #45 of 340 Old 04-01-2016, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg1292 View Post
Your thread in the Crt section so you are the one that should be
bringing it. My turf not yours so you should move this to the digital
section if you want me to bring it.

Remember that I have been a CRT guy for a loooooong time.




By the way Camera i use is my Canon Eos 450D normal following lens have noting else
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post #46 of 340 Old 04-01-2016, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg1292 View Post
You actually should post shots with the RS600 I have this shot waiting for you at least 3mb file size should be good. Since you started this
thread I want to see your best so I can post my best. You may have the better shot or not by not trying you will never know. But you will
need to be 50% better than what you posted. Crt can do this shot. Oh and I am sure you will get the colors right with your calibration
skills.
My calibration skills wont help me with screenshots to bad because calibration on it is great. Camera not calibrated and so on we all know that.


50% better im not there at all, need to have the film it in full 4K
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post #47 of 340 Old 04-01-2016, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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The first compartment of shots, if some want to change to a better CRT/Digital screenshot of the same shot I will change. just let me know.


Again this is screen shot friendly war """"""screenshot.""""""
What we like best in our home theatre based of projector or type is up to each end every one of us. Here we discuss the pictures all other stuff leave it.


JVC and 9 inc CRT with mod

Picture 1 JVC, picture 2 CRT




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post #48 of 340 Old 04-01-2016, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Like the eye ball on the CRTpicture some fairytale cool look, but way to much green and other color get greenish. Feel like TV mode Dynamic sort of way.
But naturalness, detail, the rest and how I feel things look and closer to real shown in the photo clearly the JVC.
My opinion. Must be seen on a monitor.
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post #49 of 340 Old 04-01-2016, 11:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
My calibration skills wont help me with screenshots to bad because calibration on it is great. Camera not calibrated and so on we all know that.


50% better im not there at all, need to have the film it in full 4K
You will not get a 50% better screenshot if you have the movie in full 4K, I doubt you will se much of a difference due to the limitations in the camera.

When it is hard to see the difference between a HW55 and X500 with screenshots it demonstrates how worthless a screenshot actually is as the difference seen on screen with these two is big.

Other than that you guys can compare screenshots until the end of time, the only way to actually do this is to see the projectors side by side.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
The first compartment of shots...
I believe the word you're looking for is "comparison." "Compartment" is that place in your car where you keep the manual, spare ketchup packets and sometimes gloves.

I only bring it up because you used it in a number of PMs to me and I had a difficult time figuring out what you meant.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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post #51 of 340 Old 04-02-2016, 12:05 AM
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Great Job DJ DEE!!!, couldn't agree more. I too have been a Barco cinemax owner for a long long time and still am. I now have a jvc x700 and the CRT requires color element just to filter out certain color to get it right. But the JVC indeed does a better job and cleaner. By the way, most CRT employ a sort of peaking or CRT drive mode which boost certain white in the contrast and should definitely be turned off or like my cinemax switch to ECO mode. I will be getting another JVC x750 this afternoon.
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post #52 of 340 Old 04-02-2016, 01:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DrDon View Post
I believe the word you're looking for is "comparison." "Compartment" is that place in your car where you keep the manual, spare ketchup packets and sometimes gloves.


I only bring it up because you used it in a number of PMs to me and I had a difficult time figuring out what you meant.
One word Norwegian Did I write that hehe """comparison""" then I understand hehe Thanx ayway for info also.
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post #53 of 340 Old 04-02-2016, 01:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Look at this found this at another forum,
Here the differences between the 2 identical marquees. Amazing

Look at the sharpness differences, look at the colors, almost look identical to the screen cap to be a CRT today this is fantastic wow. Almost don't believe what I see, it just a fantastic shot of crt. (((ITS NOT A CRT)))







Here the screencap from the film then captured (NOT a photo of screen)




Here a Marquee 9500 LC the same as the other one.







CRT VS CRT same projector sam mods about the same








CRT VS Screencap



Here CRT picture VS screencap





And below



Also here against the with JVC fantastic to manage this sharpness on a crtshot with about 30% MTF at 1080P with the lenses used today against the JVCs almost 100% MTF at 1080P.
Specially if you check the same marquee. Fantastic shot

Last edited by Dj Dee; 04-19-2016 at 11:25 PM.
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post #54 of 340 Old 04-02-2016, 02:14 AM
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Thanks DJ Dee...Your understanding of CRTs is critical to cut through all the HYPE and propaganda floating around duping people into believing CRTs have made great advancements in recent times.
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post #55 of 340 Old 04-02-2016, 02:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
Look at this found this at another forum,
Here the differences between the 2 identical marquees. Amazing

Look at the sharpness differences, look at the colors, almost look identical to the screen cap to be a CRT today this is fantastic wow. Almost don't believe what I see, it just a fantastic shot of crt.




Here the screencap from the film then captured (NOT a photo of screen)




Here a Marquee 9500 LC the same as the other one taken from net.




This the photo from Greg1292 Same Picture form same marquee but huge differenses





CRT Greg1292 VS CRT better photo same projector same mods about the same








CRT taken from AVF screenshot war VS Screencap



Here CRT picture VS screencap





And below



Also here against the with JVC fantastic to manage this sharpness on a crtshot with about 30% MTF at 1080P with the lenses used today against the JVCs almost 100% MTF at 1080P.
Specially if you check the same marquee. Fantastic shot



This have to be a huge revolution in 2016, think new lenses that manages more than about 20-30 % Mtf it will be mind-blowing
If picture don't show press the X

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post #56 of 340 Old 04-02-2016, 02:40 AM
 
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Those Marquee your comparing is actually quite different, but they look very alike, the main difference is the camera and camera settings, i have the advantage of a calibrated UHD monitor to evaluate my pictures, so can more or less set focus exposure and color balance to match any reference, as well as a camera allow.

You picked the one of my shot who had a bit of processing/ enhancement addet, i made a direct comparison between processed, and non processed, where you will see the noise the processing adds, just like whats seen in the JVC shots.

I can see they are a bit overexposed in comparison to the screen cap.

My marquee run with LCP tubes and some other lenses, its slightly defocused to hide scanlines and stair stepping on edges, running 1080P 72hz 178Mhz.

I can add any amount of processing i like, to make it look like a JVC, or even more, and make it look like a SONY, its quite funny thinking about this thing was designed, and came out over 20 years ago, most of them is still running, and still will when this generation of digital projectors are dead and gone.

I started with a standard Vidikron Vision One some years ago now, all standard, with dirty glycol, and a old DVDO VP50,
And back then i prefered the standard CRT over the JVC X7, now today the CRT projector is in a hole different condition, in wich im confident it will even carry on and outshine any comming generations of 4K projectors, as long as its used within its limitations of screen size. There is still a few things that can be done to improve performance, if needet, something that has never been possible on a digital, where only solution is to add a external processor, and tweake enhancement and calibration, with whatever loss and distortion that adds to the image. Its a hole different ball game.
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4k CRT Mods with these new proven in a screenshot high MTF lenses upgrades is now possible NOT..
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post #58 of 340 Old 04-02-2016, 02:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin 3000 View Post
Thanks DJ Dee...Your understanding of CRTs is critical to cut through all the HYPE and propaganda floating around duping people into believing CRTs have made great advancements in recent times.
Or maybe lack of understanding, and the fact none of you have seen what we doo with CRT today, other than on screenshots.
CRT is dead, its a old tech, you cant buy a new one, there is no hype or propaganda, there is a few entusiasts, who play and tweak, and have made huge advancements in recent time, wich dont account for CRT in general.

There is great hype and propaganda on the digital market, new models, new features, greater than ever, and tomorow nothing worth talking about, som like to run along with the propaganda of new tech, well for now its mostly old tech in new clothes, and processing tuned to the general liking from consumers.

So as i have posted before, how do you like it, and ill make it look like it, just adding some of the same processing to the CRT source, as is precented in every digital projector today, thats the main diference in changing how the image look from model to model using the same old tech like SONY and JVC do.
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post #59 of 340 Old 04-02-2016, 03:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kevin 3000 View Post
4k CRT Mods with these new proven in a screenshot high MTF lenses upgrades is now possible NOT..
I dont think so no, but who knows in the future.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stridsvognen View Post
Those Marquee your comparing is actually quite different, but they look very alike, the main difference is the camera and camera settings, i have the advantage of a calibrated UHD monitor to evaluate my pictures, so can more or less set focus exposure and color balance to match any reference, as well as a camera allow.

You picked the one of my shot who had a bit of processing/ enhancement addet, i made a direct comparison between processed, and non processed, where you will see the noise the processing adds, just like whats seen in the JVC shots.

I can see they are a bit overexposed in comparison to the screen cap.

My marquee run with LCP tubes and some other lenses, its slightly defocused to hide scanlines and stair stepping on edges, running 1080P 72hz 178Mhz.

I can add any amount of processing i like, to make it look like a JVC, or even more, and make it look like a SONY, its quite funny thinking about this thing was designed, and came out over 20 years ago, most of them is still running, and still will when this generation of digital projectors are dead and gone.

I started with a standard Vidikron Vision One some years ago now, all standard, with dirty glycol, and a old DVDO VP50,
And back then i prefered the standard CRT over the JVC X7, now today the CRT projector is in a hole different condition, in wich im confident it will even carry on and outshine any comming generations of 4K projectors, as long as its used within its limitations of screen size. There is still a few things that can be done to improve performance, if needet, something that has never been possible on a digital, where only solution is to add a external processor, and tweake enhancement and calibration, with whatever loss and distortion that adds to the image. Its a hole different ball game.
The noise you are talking about is also present in the other CRT picture, the JVC actually has less of it.
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