Screenshot War CRT vs Digital 2015-2016 - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 340 Old 04-21-2016, 01:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Facts and proof

This Crt picture is not great, because look like of some strey light in the room. Because turns grey. But you see that its a great CRT if you look on other stuff.
2 pictures, and the first picture show "clean" without any processing. Picture nr 2 is with processing then Darbee and maybe some other stuff don't care.
CRT

CRT with processing Darbee......









Here zoomed inn to se differences, what do you see? Minor differences shown.




Same guy clamed just by using Darbee you an get it like this.

Then I want his Darbee And I might be the new James Bond in the future lol



Also put the originals here.


Also showing here zoomed in so you can compare and see. Its easy to see.


Here his CRT without darbee

Here his clamed Digital JVC CRT with 25% darbee




Don't need to be a rocket scientist to see that its just bull.

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post #212 of 340 Old 04-21-2016, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I lay this to rest here a comparison
Here a JVC


Here Marquee the best of them clearly if not bull...

Here together Digital on the left and Crt on the right.







One thing for shore 100%
The biggest differences between digital and Crt is many things.
Ansi Contrast is one of them, and have nothing to do with the ones who never had a CRT with enough MTF or ansi contrast. MTF has its limitations in the lenses. End of story. Bandwidth does not help with MTF.End of story.
The combination of both on/off and god ansicontrast will give a better image than if you just have one of them.


All the different factors in a image is combined together. FL punch, MTF, Simultain contrast, on/off, correct color, and a calibration up to the standard we use. All this together makes debt, clearness, and will show HD 1080P or higher like it shall be. A CRT in 2016 will and can not compete with that.
But for some still that like the softness prefer CRT, and what I like with CRT is the total shutdown to 0 IRE Its a fantastic feeling. Most digital cant compete with this at all. But JVC have managed to get high on off that goes past a CRT and there for great.


And pictures will never show how god a projector is. The only way is to see them side by side. And the differences will then be even much bigger.



This can easy be seen with 1:1 patterns 1080P that the lines get grey like shown here. Then both white and black lines (Just simulated not a CRT) In this simulated picture you also see that 720P struggles. On Crt you will see more black instead of grey in the 720P then the thicker lines , because manages this better but also here not even close to a digital.



And here you see some that manages the resolution. Real picture of a DLP and a D-ila not my projector.

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post #213 of 340 Old 04-21-2016, 12:42 PM
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Off topic posts removed. Warnings issued. As stated earlier, abide by the rules of this thread and AVS or you lose posting privileges here. Pretty simple, really.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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post #214 of 340 Old 04-21-2016, 11:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Here all can draw own conclusions. Tampered with or not. See that many program is used on the CRT picture. But so good that I like to use it.
The following IJG-based editors also match this signature:





SW :[FastStone Image Viewer ] [094 ]


SW :[NeatImage ] [094 ]


SW :[Paint.NET ] [094 ]


SW :[Photomatix ] [094 ]


SW :[XnView ] [094 ]


Based on the analysis of compression characteristics and EXIF metadata:


ASSESSMENT: Class 1 - Image is processed/edited






This is a great "CRT" picture but don't think it look like this after what we have seen. And this picture is magic so any way well done.. I will see this on a CRT that I know is perfect, differences shall be minimal if not extra sharpness added and so on. But most likely this is done heavy. Draw your own conclusions.
CRT modded also after program Image is processed/edited.

RS600 Digital




side by side JVC Left, CRT Right Click on the image to see closer.
greenshot









Even on a small monitor you see differences, think in 110 inch or bigger. And even the color match. :

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post #215 of 340 Old 04-22-2016, 12:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Hehe


I think I lay this dead with this guys CRT pictures.
First picture newly taken of the RS600. If someone believe that a 20-25% MTF CRTwith higher bandwidth and mod can compete in sharpness and realness and everything else together with a digital something is done to the picture. That is proven 1000%. And now the color are more CRT like in the CRT picture and you see different use of added processing.


See the extreme difference same projector Marquee modded.



But I liked very much the picture of the nature last post. It looked like a adventure +1


RS600



modded marquee .







Happy Weekend.

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post #216 of 340 Old 04-22-2016, 01:52 AM
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^^CRT not modded enhanced/processed enough just look at the stitching on TC RS600s cap for example.
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post #217 of 340 Old 04-22-2016, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
Hehe


I think I lay this dead with this guys CRT pictures.
More un natural pictures with a lot of processing done to the pictures and look plastic fantastic. All pictures show use of many programs, and you see sharpness and clearness being added in all pictures to try to back up all he has done.
First picture newly taken of the RS600. If someone believe that a 20-25% MTF CRTwith higher bandwidth and mod can compete in sharpness and realness and everything else together with a digital something is done to the picture. That is proven 1000%. And now the color are more CRT like in the CRT picture and you see different use of added processing. Both in program an might be in real also. LOL
But I liked very much the picture of the nature last post. It looked like a adventure +1



Happy Weekend.
I had the pleasure of seeing the above displayed CRT projector, and got the full demo tour, and ill like to say its most impressive, and the impression was close to what those pictures display.
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post #218 of 340 Old 04-22-2016, 03:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carteknik View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post

.
I had the pleasure of seeing the above displayed CRT projector, and got the full demo tour, and ill like to say its most impressive, and the impression was close to what those pictures display.
I bet its great.
Better than shore Lol

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post #219 of 340 Old 04-22-2016, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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^^CRT not modded enhanced/processed enough just look at the stitching on TC RS600s cap for example.
To say this easy,and understandable there is much more visible processing on the CRT pictures. And they look unnatural.
And some of them look really plastic and over processed \ sharpened And that added processing is proven and easy seen.
Funny that all CRT guys talk about unprocessed picture. Can someone see anything at all in the rs600 picture?
I don't see anything....
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post #220 of 340 Old 04-24-2016, 02:02 AM
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JVC X90 Just cropped otherwise too large to upload message from postimg.org

online photo sharing

image free hosting
CRT Modded

photo sharing
Compared

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post #221 of 340 Old 04-24-2016, 03:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Look like The normal.
How can someone say digital flatness and debt ?
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post #222 of 340 Old 04-24-2016, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
Look like The normal.
How can someone say digital flatness and debt ?

I was in 2 minds whether to post the above or not as the differences is striking to say the least but then I though when the CRT pic was posted it must have been posted to impress so it is what it is.


Forgot to mention JVC was in FILM 2 preset (filter engaged).
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post #223 of 340 Old 04-24-2016, 05:46 AM - Thread Starter
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That is the point to this thread.
The siense of how good this is in 2016.
So you can chose if you want to mod or just buy something else.
What you can do with your CRT is just to change to new cooler fluid and then get it like it was when new. That also is a big improvement. But again 1+1 is 2 not 10
Don't look bad alone, but side by side even in a picture seen on a monitor huge difference.
But like earlier, they post also pictures of DVD so we shall compare. About the same.
But we like what we like, and have different preferences. But to say that it's better or not the picture speak.
Think in real side by side test.
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post #224 of 340 Old 04-24-2016, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Here some of Batman. This is the RS600 the real "THE DARK NIGHT" Native up to 150 000:1 mine calibrated to around 80 000-100 000 because of iris at -11
Fun to see if someone tries this photos out on the old black level king With the same shadow detail, real feeling, clearness and debt that don't exist on digitals.
Let see if someone dares to post a shot clean CRT without any processing, and added sharpness or a digital projector.


There is a guy here with a Cine9 watching, that can do this great. And that projector also is super. I know how it will look, and we wont be disappointed.



JVC RS 600 14,7FL, MPC setting 6,5,0,0 E-Shift ON Clair black ON, high lamp. Gamma at 2,3. Normally calibrated at 2,5 this gamma 2,3 used because of the shadow details got lost at 2.5 in the picture.












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post #225 of 340 Old 04-25-2016, 02:38 AM
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@Dj Dee Does the dynamic iris work on a paused image?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin 3000 View Post
@Dj Dee Does the dynamic iris work on a paused image?
Yes.
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post #227 of 340 Old 04-25-2016, 05:16 AM
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@Dj DeeThe above is the usual Digital Envy that's why most have scrapped their CRTs and moved with the times.

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post #228 of 340 Old 04-25-2016, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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@Dj DeeThe above is the usual Digital Envy that's why most have scrapped their CRTs and moved with the times.
Also see the color that is totally different in the 2 CRTs. And huge differences in sharpness huge....

Information:
Many think or just 3 think that bandwidth will do something with the MTF. The MTF is set in the blueray then 100% MTF.
Out into a projector is the part where something happen, and MTF gets lower. Also with digital projectors. But lenses are made for 1080P with digital to manage up to 100%
In CRT case, the bandwidth needed for crt with blueray is one thing, to get higher bandwidth to reach up to what blueray requires that ok . But the MTF has its limitation in the lenses not the bandwidth. This even written in the book CRT for dummies. Here explained correct from another forum about resolution and bandwith.
**********************************************
The whole path from BNC to CRT grid can exceed 300Mhz, power bandwidth measured at the tube. That claim is very accurate. Ive swept that path and its got response to 600Mhz. You do gotta replace that crappy coax tho, bandwidth limiting. The VNB is a wonder of engineering. The use of RF power transistors was awesome.

But a higher resolution is not tied like you think to bandwidth. LOTS of things effect the ability to resolve that resolution that is fed to the grid. That tube is a messy analog place. Messy RF analog place. With HIGH voltages present.

The bandwidth of the channel is not as important in this case as say a clean supply on those RF output transistors. ANY noise on those rails ends up in the signal. That effects resolution by adding noise ( fuzz ) to the beam spot. Anything that adds noise to the beam decreases resolution. If there is noise in deflection then the pixel does not land in exactly the same spot frame after frame but moves around very slightly at like 60hz. This has the effect of reducing resolution by making the dot look fuzzy again.

So a 1Ghz bandwidth is great, but if your dot is fuzzy in the range of a 200Mhz equiv, then any change you made elsewhere does not matter.

So EVERYTHING effects percieved resolution in this case. Vert deflection is a big one. That flutters and moves up/down by more then 1 line frame by frame. With a still picture. On dynamic contrast changes scene to scene BIG changes of pic size can occur because of "bloom" which is a lack of HV regulation when the tubes are pulling more power. This "jitter" vertically by one or more lines decreases percieved resolution by 1/2. So having the HV stable, the deflection stable and all sorts of things like focus and alignment effect resolution and so bandwidth alone does very little above 300mhz.

***********************************************

And all digital projectors updates to 72 or 96 times pr sec normal. Even if it says 24 frames pr sec, then you just know little about digital if you believe this. New Sonys have 96 and the old JVCx500 had 72. Don't know with the new models JVC. 72 or 96 don't know. And with e-shift on up to 120
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post #229 of 340 Old 04-26-2016, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
...
Information:
Many think or just 3 think that bandwidth will do something with the MTF. The MTF is set in the blueray then 100% MTF.
Out into a projector is the part where something happen, and MTF gets lower. Also with digital projectors. But lenses are made for 1080P with digital to manage up to 100%
In CRT case, the bandwidth needed for crt with blueray is one thing, to get higher bandwidth to reach up to what blueray requires that ok . But the MTF has its limitation in the lenses not the bandwidth. This even written in the book CRT for dummies. Here explained correct from another forum about resolution and bandwith.
**********************************************
4...

In CRT it makes sense to measure MTF in both horizontal and vertical direction because they are not the same, the explanation is easy and it involves the bandwidth :
As you probably know most CRTs using raster scanning scheme, that consist of several scanlines which build up the actual image.
-In vertical plane the picture only consist of the scanlines, the thickness of the scanlines should be considered constant regardless of resolution. imagine an 1 on 1 off line pattern stucture. For MTF calculations it does matter how close the lines get together, at low resolutions scanlines may fall that far apart so another scanline(s) could fit inbetween; this case is pretty similar to the screen door effect of a fixed pixel digital display. On CRT therefore the best utilization is when the scanlines are just touching eachother. In this plane, apart from the already mentioned placement of scanlines, the scattering effect of the phosphor, the gaussian distribution of the electron beam and the lens quality (resolution) that affects MTF. This also means at lower resolutions (in vertical plane) CRT can have much higher spatial resolution, just as digital displays.
-In the horizontal plane the thigs a bit different. The traveling speed of the electron beam is much higher in horizontal plane than in vertical plane (about 1000:1), in this case the speed how we can control the electron beam intensity play a significant role too along with the parameters already mentioned for the vertical plane. This control speed is actualy the analog bandwidth.
You can imagine this as a valve: it is not possible to fully open a valve from its closed position without going through a state where it is only half opened, let this time be as short as possible, but you can't eliminate it.
So in fact, we'd need infinite bandwidth on a CRT to match the horizontal MTF to the vertical MTF. But as you already quoted there are practical considerations and constraits on how high the bandwidth should/can be, but the fact is low bandwidth can severely affect MTF in horizontal direction on a CRT.
That is however a whole different story how your eyes perceive the horizontal and vertical details in the real world -because they are not the same either.
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post #230 of 340 Old 04-29-2016, 01:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Much CRT information here now.

Let's go back to the threads topic compartment.

First Screen cap





First here a Screen cap also taken away black bars. So you can compare how it shall look.


Digital my shot way to much yello


Modded marquee 9 inch


Digital also here way to much yello.




Modded marquee 9 inch

photo hosting sites



Here together digital on the left if you wonder.


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post #231 of 340 Old 05-01-2016, 10:47 AM
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Does the digital has color calibration ?

The CRT looks much better.

4K Ultra HD
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post #232 of 340 Old 05-01-2016, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTopo View Post
Does the digital has color calibration ?

The CRT looks much better.


The digital is calibrated up to the correct standard we use today.
But the camera is not.
And you can like what ever you like
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post #233 of 340 Old 05-01-2016, 12:25 PM
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Dj Dee
Are you serious?
Do you really like the digital best in the last shots?

Hmmmm..
Well your choice.

What is a home theater without good sound??
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post #234 of 340 Old 05-01-2016, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koldby View Post
Dj Dee
Are you serious?
Do you really like the digital best in the last shots?

Hmmmm..
Well your choice.
Yes I am serious and 100% my choice.
And here is a screen cap of the Blueray film. click on it to get it in 1920x1080



free picture upload


Everybody can make it how we like, but I like to be true to the source and as close as possible. That's why we calibrate.


And I see that I did not match the color, but its a photo and the camera is not calibrated. And i bet that what many of us watch it on also a not calibrated monitor. But look at the CRT picture and you ask me if im serious.
But we rest it there for shore, want to continue do it on pm.

Post some shots if you guys like, lets see what you CRT guys got.

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post #235 of 340 Old 05-01-2016, 03:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTopo View Post
Does the digital has color calibration ?

The CRT looks much better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by koldby View Post
Dj Dee
Are you serious?
Do you really like the digital best in the last shots?

Hmmmm..
Well your choice.
If you guys prefer the CRT in the last shots from James Bond Spectre you just show you don´t know how a calibrated picture should look like. If you look at the screencap the JVC look very close to the source and I guess the difference between the screencap and JVC is because of the camera.

The CRT is so far off in everything it is not the camera here as the difference is so big it is just silly. Other than that the CRT clearly shows it can not handle the resolution among many other things and most of them is not due to the camera....

The main reason we calibrate is that we can watch the material the way the Director and DOP ment us to see the movie and Spectre was made with this yellow look from the creators so with a properly calibrated display this is the way it is ment to look.

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post #236 of 340 Old 05-01-2016, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Everybody have a right to their opinion, back to comparing
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post #237 of 340 Old 05-01-2016, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post

Here his CRT without darbee

Here his clamed Digital JVC CRT with 25% darbee




Don't need to be a rocket scientist to see that its just bull.
Which Darbee? I have the 5000 unit and while it does make a positive difference it is NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO where near that much different - no matter what and definitely not at 25%.
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----------------------------------------
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post #238 of 340 Old 05-01-2016, 10:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Which Darbee? I have the 5000 unit and while it does make a positive difference it is NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO where near that much different - no matter what and definitely not at 25%.


You are so so so so so so right.
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post #239 of 340 Old 05-02-2016, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I put up the screen caps because I understand that some are not use to calibrated displays or simply don't know what is. There is noting wrong with a un calibrated display, but then cant come calming something correct is wrong.
First here 1 screen caps of the Blu-ray. Here I got extremely close to the screen cap that's why I picked it.







Here the orginal 1080P screencap from the blue-ray.



Here the CRT



Here the JVC








Here zoom compared together JVC digital on the left or right? Hehe






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post #240 of 340 Old 05-02-2016, 01:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dj Dee View Post
I put up the screen caps because I understand that some are not use to calibrated displays or simply don't know what is. There is noting wrong with a un calibrated display, but then cant come calming something correct is wrong.
First here 1 screen caps of the Blu-ray. Here I got extremely close to the screen cap that's why I picked it.







Here the orginal 1080P screencap from the blue-ray.



Here the CRT



Here the JVC







Here zoom compared together JVC digital on the right




If the JVC is on the right I prefer the CRT...
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