Tim Martin's Got a WINNER BLENDING TWO 9" CRTs Side-By-Side!!! - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 216 Old 12-05-2003, 06:43 AM
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Say Art

We got HiDef and DVD for sources now, we can attempt D-VHS if someone brings the deck and a transcoder, BlendZilla cannot process component resolutions other than 480i. I should have the demo up at least thru Sinday 12/14.

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post #182 of 216 Old 12-05-2003, 09:45 AM
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It looks like I'm coming tomorrow. I got a copy of DVE 1080i today. I can bring my JVC 30K , transcoder and DTheater tapes along with familiar DVDs.
Is there anything else I need to bring?

Art

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post #183 of 216 Old 12-05-2003, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Art Sonneborn
It looks like I'm coming tomorrow. I got a copy of DVE 1080i today. I can bring my JVC 30K , transcoder and DTheater tapes along with familiar DVDs.
Is there anything else I need to bring?

Art

Bring your credit card:D
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post #184 of 216 Old 12-05-2003, 10:08 AM
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Is there a web site we can see the Folsom at?
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post #185 of 216 Old 12-05-2003, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by tim
Guys!

It was my great pleasure to pick up John W., a.k.a. "The Depot Dude", at Sky Harbor Airport this morning and drive him up to the E-Tech shop and show him both satellite HDTV and regular DVD on the "BlendZilla" system; he left this afternoon with a big grin, and indicated he would post here upon returning to Toronto tomorrow. I hope to upload some new pictures also. Many thanks to John Orr from Folsom Research for his help in setting up on Wednesday. With any luck we will have DisplayPro on display at CES in Vegas in January!!!!!!!! :D
It was a pleasure meeting you Tim, and thanks for the demo on such short notice..

An unexpected business trip to the US, gave me the opportunity to make a little detour and see the Folsom unit in action..

Tim is correct - I did leave with a big grin and I'll explain why - however this won't be a total cheerleader type post - the criticisms are mainly directed to Folsom who I hope are following these threads and taking note of the feedback..

I am very seriously interested in getting the unit and with this in mind came with a critical eye..

First the good stuff....

Tim had HD satellite playing - as expected HD always looks good so after a brief viewing we switched to DVD..

The only disc I ever use to evaulate video is the 5th Element SB..boring I know, but it's the best way to compare by having a consistent transfer to use..

As the tag line says - it does what it claims VERY WELL!! In the center blend zone, it is seamless - the contrast and brightness levels match the sides..colour uniformity is excellant..in short, you cannot tell that there are 2 blended images..

The other thing that made me personally happy, is that it accepts multiple input resolutions from 480P up to 1080P..the significance for me is that I use an HTPC with the Immersive Holo II card - specifically, I love the ability to quickly adjust the cont/bright/gamma/saturation on a DVD by DVD basis..the Folsom unit doesn't appear to have these types of adjustments..so hopefully I'll be able to feed it a resolution like 1600 x 1200..

Now the criticisms..

We demoed the current 2 piece setup..some of these criticisms may not be applicable in the final product..

1-Image flaws

There was a very thin line visible from the right side at the point where the 1/3 center portion starts to blend..I could only see the line in very bright daytime scenes..I'm sure this is easily fixed..

The left side of the image was brighter than the right side..Tim stated this was due to the right CRT having more hours on it plus there some visible 16:9 wear on the tubes..I couldn't see anything related to the 16:9 wear on the screen..I imagine the contrast on the right CRT can be increased to equalize the brightness on the screen.

I would have liked to compare the total image of both CRT's vs one CRT filling the entire screen to get a feel for the Folsom contribution, but this isn't easy to do unless we set up a 3rd Crt..

Actually the real test would be a comparison of the Folsom vs a standard stack..


2- Noise

The 2 units are VERY noisy and are unacceptable in a HT environment - I didn't have an SPL meter but the noise was considerably louder than the 2 CRT's..even shoving the Folsom unit in a rack would not help much..I can hear the fan on my HTPC and after silencing my 1292, I wouldn't be happy hearing the loud noise out of the Folsom..I have to assume though that a one piece box would be alot quieter.

3- Memory Settings

When Tim switched from HD satellite over to DVD he had to dial in some of the various settings - this didn't take long but it had to be done every time we switched between satellite and DVD..too much of a hassle to expect a consumer to do this each and every time they switch inputs..

4-External test patterns

The unit requires that the crts be able to be converged using test patterns generated by the Folsom box..I'm not sure if mine can do this or not - I'll have to confirm this - I don't know how critical this requirement will be..I imagine you could recalibrate either crt if the image is off a bit.

5-No Remote

There was no remote with the unit..not a big issue as once it's setup there's not much needed to do on the Folsom..it does have a RS232 port and I assume remote control could be done with a Pronto etc..

6- No Digital Input

If it were my product, I would incorporate both a digital input and output prior to the initial release, even if it means a reasonable delay. The reason is to expand the market potential of the HT segment and appeal to digital PJ owners. I don't know how the blend zone would look with the "bulb always being on". The Folsom could be a very good solution for someone who wants a big screen - adding a pair of inexpensive digital projectors, could be a better solution than say a 3 chip DLP or SXRD. Attracting the digital market would also get the numbers up and help ensure it doesn't go above the current proposed retail price of $15K..

I took a few screen shots and will post em when I get home..

John
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post #186 of 216 Old 12-05-2003, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Gaw2
Is there a web site we can see the Folsom at?
http://www.folsom.com/Video_Home/video_home.html

John
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post #187 of 216 Old 12-05-2003, 03:30 PM
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John,
Great review ! I'm going out tomorrow to look at it and it sounds promising at least.

I think that we are going to have problems with the two PJ's being identical but at least it sounds like the blend zone will mask some of this. I'm going to see this, then a standard G90 side by side stack in about a month. I hope I get some of my quest work to start to converge ( no pun intended) to a system solution for me.

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post #188 of 216 Old 12-05-2003, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bentson
Bring your credit card:D


I'm hoping it looks good enough to make me want to pull it out.

Art

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post #189 of 216 Old 12-05-2003, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Art Sonneborn

Great review ! I'm going out tomorrow to look at it and it sounds promising at least.
Make sure you see it at night..I had no choice but to see it mid day..the temporary setup is not under ideal conditions due to outside light and white walls and ceiling..

Quote:
I think that we are going to have problems with the two PJ's being identical
why?

Look forward to your review...

John
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post #190 of 216 Old 12-05-2003, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Art Sonneborn
I'm hoping it looks good enough to make me want to pull it out.

Art
That's a dentist/orthodontist talkin, always wanting to pull something out!!!

:confused:

"Doug Winsor" used to troll at some AV Forums as "Steve Bruzonsky"! My home theater at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1158431
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post #191 of 216 Old 12-05-2003, 05:01 PM
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John,
I think with two PJ's that have very similar use, tube hours wise, getting identical grey scale could be close( remember I'm no calibrator) but if the blend zone does it's job we wouldn't have to. This is one place where a standard stack doesn't have to perform since the grey scale is calibrated together.




Steve,
My fear as an orthodontist is that I MAY pull a tooth , this would be a reason for the family to call you !

Art

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post #192 of 216 Old 12-05-2003, 05:06 PM
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John,
My flight isn't supposed to get in until about 3:00 PM so I should be able to see some evening demo time.

Art

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post #193 of 216 Old 12-05-2003, 06:26 PM
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Say Art

Do e.mail me with your flight info, Bud!

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post #194 of 216 Old 12-06-2003, 08:09 AM
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Fan noise? I guess I was so blown away with the video that I didn't notice. I was equally blown away by last years stack. The only advantage of this years stack was less stress on the convergence circuits as Tim pointed out. Both projectors were pointed dead ahead. Thanks for the demo Tim. You haven't really seen hi def until you see this.

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post #195 of 216 Old 12-06-2003, 08:25 AM
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Guys!

Thanks to all who have visited so far; I have some pictures coming as soon as my webmeister can get to it! Got you some screen shots from Fifth Element Superbit for tomorrow I hope.

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post #196 of 216 Old 12-06-2003, 06:16 PM
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"BlendZilla" ...LOL..I love it!!! ,

Good one Tim!....

I can see the Ad with pixels being poured into a juicer and the homogeous widescreen images coming out the other side

...all with Japanese actors actors badly lip synced in english and
of course ... subtitles (HA!)
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post #197 of 216 Old 12-06-2003, 09:22 PM
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i took a look at tims setup today. to put things simply, it just worked. of course, thats a gross oversimplification of the configuration and what the hardwares doing. but thats the way its supposed to be as well as a testament to how well it performed. (thats not supposed to sound jaded. we pay a lot for these configurations and expect this level of performance.)

after tim gave me a few caveats that were specific to the prototype demo environment, we watched some live hidef basketball and the fifth element dvd. the viewing was very impressive.

bob singer
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post #198 of 216 Old 12-06-2003, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Fry
"BlendZilla" ...LOL..I love it!!! ,

Good one Tim!....

I can see the Ad with pixels being poured into a juicer and the homogeous widescreen images coming out the other side

...all with Japanese actors actors badly lip synced in english and
of course ... subtitles (HA!)
:D More fun than "OsterVision".......

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post #199 of 216 Old 12-07-2003, 05:30 PM
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Guys!

It was my pleasure yesterday to greet Art Sonneborn here at the Phoenix airport and bring him to the BlendZilla demo room here at E-Tech. Art was not very pleased that his D-VHS deck was thumped by the luggage crews and proved inoperative after unpacking. We settled for HDTV and DVDs for our demo stuff, and got a surprise visit from Steve Bruzonsky and a few friends; I await the posting of Art's impression of BlendZilla as well as comments from the others! How about that K.C.-Denver game, huh?

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post #200 of 216 Old 12-08-2003, 08:50 AM
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I apologize to Tim for taking me so long to post these pics of his. I had a minor catastophe at work that delayed me from posting. So anyhow, I haven't seen this iteration of "BlendZilla", I only saw it in July so these pictures were taken by Tim and are accompanied by his comments.

Click any of them to enlarge...

Regards,

Mark.

http://www.etechvideo.com/superstack/pic1_dec_sm.jpg
"Here we have a Panasonic DVD player, RCA DTC100 HD tuner, Folsom ScreenPro, and Folsom BlendPro. The ScreenPro has switching for eight inputs, dual scalers outputting 1280 x 1024,and the ability to digitize and stretch the incoming signals into two overlapping segments. The BlendPro does contrast modulation to provide seamless overlap."

http://www.etechvideo.com/superstack/pic2_dec_sm.jpg
"The Blend zone is very well managed with 10 bit contrast modulation and gamma control for undetectable overlap. We have momentarily blanked the top edge of the left side projector and the bottom edge of the right side projector to show the rolloff in luminance in the center."

http://www.etechvideo.com/superstack/pic3_dec_sm.jpg
"A scene from 'The Fifth Element' Superbit; dual Marquee 9500 Ultras provide near 400 ANSI lumens across our 111" wide screen."

http://www.etechvideo.com/superstack/pic4_dec_sm.jpg
"John Weitner was kind enough to visit from Toronto on Thursday."
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post #201 of 216 Old 12-11-2003, 03:21 PM
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More pics from Tim...

http://www.etechvideo.com/superstack/pic_5_dec_sm.jpg
"Screenshots from Monday Night Football, tough to do, most of the seventy
shots taken had motion blurring. Note six pack of Corona just at bottom of screen center to give sense of scale of 111" wide image."

http://www.etechvideo.com/superstack/pic_6_dec_sm.jpg
"I wish football games had freeze-frame buttons!"

http://www.etechvideo.com/superstack/pic_7_dec_sm.jpg
"Here is the business end of BlendZilla, incorporating two Marquee 9500LC Ultras. The system could be had with lesser projectors to begin with, and the projectors could be upgraded later, for those with budget limits. We hope to show the system at CES in Las Vegas in January."
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post #202 of 216 Old 12-11-2003, 04:29 PM
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I'm not seeing the Corona? Did that get cropped out of the picture(s)?

- David

... when I bought my first pair of CRT projectors, nobody ever told me they worked like rabbits!
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post #203 of 216 Old 12-11-2003, 04:40 PM
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Say David

Well, Mark sure didn't drink it!!!! He is a coffee kind of guy.......

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post #204 of 216 Old 12-12-2003, 12:12 AM
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I have been busy assisting Joel Silver with the ISF class being held here in the Valley this week, but I did see the new iteration of the Blend products after eyeing the first this past summer.
There is no question that it is substantially improved in the 10 Bit output version. The blend demarcations are 95% removed, only being revealed when knowing what to look for, where, and only on extremely bright parts of the image.
I think that on a 9500LC with Contrast modulation, this can be made to be absolutely transparent.

WIth Windows Media 9 and 1080P threatening to blow the DVD market wide open, this combination is stunning. Reviewers such as Tom Norton, Gary Reber, and the lot of them that claim to be CRT afficinados should take a look at this...it will change their lives!

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post #205 of 216 Old 12-12-2003, 01:04 AM
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Dang, I was not able to make it out to the desert for this last showing. If I would have made the trip, It would have been an excellent time to maybe try Windows media 9 on a HTPC, and to see what my HD receiver would look like on that setup. I own a DTC-100 and a hughes box. The DTC-100 has not been used for awhile. On my tweaked out Marquee, it don't cut the mustard.

Folson has done an excellent job with that system. It's really hard to discribe how well it works. The last time i was there, we used a Faroudja integrated DVD player/scaler and the DTC-100. In my opinion, the DTC-100 was the weaker link. It was HD, and looked good, but not what I'm seeing today from the HD receivers.

I'm hoping that Folson could get this unit to this coming CES, and if so I'd like to provide the HD and maybe Windows media 9.

That system is a must see...

It's all about the performance... Got Marquee!

 

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post #206 of 216 Old 12-12-2003, 04:02 PM
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Oh yeah. I wasn't thinking of your comment about the Corona when I cropped them. You could only see the open tops anyhow...

Mark.

FYI, I hold no ill will towards a cold Corona :D
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post #207 of 216 Old 12-12-2003, 04:12 PM
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Say Art,

are you going to record you impressions of the demo?

I'd be interested in your opinion.

---------------------------------------
CRT Down Under
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post #208 of 216 Old 12-12-2003, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by macleodm
FYI, I hold no ill will towards a cold Corona :D
The lime really makes the drink. :)

- David

... when I bought my first pair of CRT projectors, nobody ever told me they worked like rabbits!
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post #209 of 216 Old 12-12-2003, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mp20748
I own a DTC-100 and a Hughes box. The DTC-100 has not been used for awhile. On my tweaked out Marquee, it don't cut the mustard.
Perhaps Mike will share with us which DirecTV tuners have the more awesome image quality And feature RGB output, not meaning to cut into Mike's transcoder sales here :D

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post #210 of 216 Old 12-12-2003, 05:55 PM
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My Panny has RGB out and a sweet picture. Unfortunately it can take minutes to tune into a channel, and they don't make it any more.

Mark.
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