Digital is not there yet....by a long shot.... - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 10:15 AM
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Even as a CRT person I would say that I agree with Darin (boy did that hurt :)). I have a CRT based RPTV in the great room that is used for everyday viewing. Would I consider replacing this with a CRT FP? No way. As much as I love my XG there is no way it would be in my main living area.
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post #182 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 10:19 AM
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The fact of the matter is close to no one knows about CRT FPTV. There are lots of people that would enjoy it, but simply don't know about it. No one really has an economic interest in getting the word out besides the small-time resellers. Hence, the word trickles and it stays the best kept secret.

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post #183 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
The fact of the matter is close to no one knows about CRT FPTV. There are lots of people that would enjoy it, but simply don't know about it. No one really has an economic interest in getting the word out besides the small-time resellers. Hence, the word trickles and it stays the best kept secret.
Mike, we have offered you "real life" examples. The people I'm talking about have seen my Marquee 8000 (and now LT240K) and still enjoy their RPTV's that they watch in their upstairs living rooms with as much light on as they wish. I repeat! These are "real life" examples. Not ONE of these people have chosen to run out and pick up a CRT from Curt (Even though I've forwarded them his CRT list). Why? Because they want to watch the game with the lights on. Or other reasons that should be quite obvious.

People who are interested in HT find their way here on their own, or come to our Ottawa HT group and are told about Curt's CRT's. Those are the people who are ready to commit to HT.

Where do the people that I know go when they really want to enjoy a movie on the big screen? My place.
Do they want this setup for themselves? Nope.
They couldn't be bothered.

Strange but true. :)

"Good... Bad... I'm the guy with the gun."

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post #184 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 11:30 AM
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And as you've already pointed out, this is not exclusive to big ole CRT's. It applies just as much to little ole digitals. Hell, I've tried to get everyone who has ever come to my theater interested in front projection (shown them both CRT and digitals). But no go.
As you said we're just a peculiar lot.
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post #185 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 11:47 AM
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I say again, I was not saying everyone is suited to FPTV. My assertion is that there are people out there that don't know about CRT FPTV that would love it. Just because everyone you show your CRT to doesn't go out and get one doesn't mean that there aren't lots of people out there that could swing this hobby and would love to if only they knew about it.

If we disagree that's fine and dandy. Try not to lose too much sleep over it.

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post #186 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 12:05 PM
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Mike, of course not. But throwing out numbers like 50% of people who own RPTV's would change their mind "If they only knew" is foolish to say the least.

I sleep just fine BTW. ;)

"Good... Bad... I'm the guy with the gun."

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post #187 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobertWood
As you said we're just a peculiar lot.
What he said. As we've gone round this tree about a dozen times now, isn't it time to start the next D* vs. CRT thread? ;)

Later,
Bill
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post #188 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobertWood
Hell, I've tried to get everyone who has ever come to my theater interested in front projection (shown them both CRT and digitals). But no go.
And contrary to what some people believe, image quality is almost never one of the reasons in my experience. Average people are blown away by the image quality of my digital setups and I've even gotten comments that I must be nuts if I want to get something that looks better. There are plenty of other reasons that most people chose not to go the front projector route, as I'm sure almost all of us who actually have experience showing these to people who could have one if they wanted one, have found out.
Quote:
Originally posted by MYoung
I say again, I was not saying everyone is suited to FPTV. My assertion is that there are people out there that don't know about CRT FPTV that would love it.
That just isn't true. Your assertion that you haven't gone back on is that RPTV owners would "most likely" trade. Much different than now claiming that your assertion is that "there are people".

--Darin
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post #189 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 12:39 PM
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Hey Mike,

I for one would be an example of your argument..

I really wish I had discovered CRT *before* moving from a direct TV to a RPTV.. I ended up selling my high end RPTV for a sizable loss..

I'm in agreement with darinp on this one..

I am the ONLY one out of my entire circle of friends, family , and every co-worker, that owns a FP whether it be CRT or Digital..

The growth in FP is slow - inexpensive digitals will speed things up - CRT's would never be more than a blip on the screen.. Even if everyone saw your setup, only a small % would consider FP, and then they'd go to a hifi place, be wowed by the big bright image and bring home one of the little guys..

John
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post #190 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MYoung


If we disagree that's fine and dandy. Try not to lose too much sleep over it.
I sure hope I don't have to loose sleep over this too. I've already lost too much sleep over spending the money for the DLP. Woke up in the middle of the night last night in a cold sweat. Had a nightmare about opening my wallet and there was nothing in it.
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post #191 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by darinp

That just isn't true. Your assertion that you haven't gone back on is that RPTV owners would "most likely" trade. Much different than now claiming that your assertion is that "there are people".
It's obvious that you disagree with me that an RPTV owner would "most likely" trade for a CRT FPTV if they knew what they were capable of.

However, do you not agree that there are lots of people out there who don't know about CRT but would love to get into it if only they knew about it? By lots I mean this...

General population * (precent of people who don't know about CRT but have the space and skill to learn how to set one up) == still lots of people

Now...
General population * (precent of people who DO know about CRT and have the space and skill to learn how to set one up) == not many people

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post #192 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 02:13 PM
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Wow!

I guess if you keep changing your original statement you'll find that you can make yourself seem correct.
Have fun with that.

Take care guys.

"Good... Bad... I'm the guy with the gun."

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post #193 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 02:35 PM
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I can never decide what type of flame warrior Mike Young is.

Is he:
Ferrous Cranus
http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/assets/Ferrous.jpg
Ferrous Cranus is utterly impervious to reason, persuasion and new ideas, and when engaged in battle he will not yield an inch in his position regardless of its hopelessness. Though his thrusts are decisively repulsed, his arguments crushed in every detail and his defenses demolished beyond repair he will remount the same attack again and again with only the slightest variation in tactics. Sometimes out of pure frustration Philosopher will try to explain to him the failed logistics of his situation, or Therapist will attempt to penetrate the psychological origins of his obduracy, but, ever unfathomable, Ferrous Cranus cannot be moved.


Is he:
Stone Deaf
http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/ass...one%20Deaf.jpg
Stone Deaf is one of the few truly invincible Warriors because nothing can shatter his impenetrable armor of non recognition. His primitive battle strategy is maddening effective; he simply refuses to acknowledge any arguments he doesn't like. Kung-Fu Master can hammer away with devastating blows, Cyber Sisters can screech in full throat and Profundus Maximus can expound until he drops, but Stone Deaf remains utterly oblivious as he advances his dogged and often repetitious attacks. In the early stages of battle a wide array of Warriors will fling themselves at Stone Deaf, but inevitably they fall back exahusted or lose interest when they see that their best weapons have no effect. His only real enemy is Admin, who has the power to eject him from the discussion forum.


Na, I think he's:
Palooka
http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/assets/Palooka2.jpg
Palooka will battle anyone, anytime, anywhere - he seems to love it, even though he always takes a beating. After a terrific pounding at the hands of, for example, Kung-Fu Master, he'll just struggle to his feet and wobble back into the ring. His astonishing ability to absorb punishment leads one to suspect that during his long Warrior career Palooka has taken a few too many punches. Often, as an act of mercy, Nanny will step in to stop the fight.
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post #194 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 02:45 PM
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oh comes on guys
there are some rear projection
owners who will gladly trade
and for a 1031 to boot
that is what happened to the 1031
i bought for games
my friend who sells cell phones for me
wanted a crt projector after seeing my 1292
in action
after i had my new to me 1031 installed in my house
for games i saw that the 1031 was to good to waste
on games
so i invited my friend over to take a look
at it he liked what he saw
we made a deal. we put a 100 in 4 x 3 pull
down screen in front of the 50 inch rptv
put the projector in a tabal
he wanted to put it on the celling
but not with me doing the installing


XANATOS

IN THE LAND OF HOME THEATER

THE THREE EYED MONSTER IS KING
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post #195 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 03:12 PM
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QQQ
it would seem you have forgotten
the butt whooping mike gave you
a short time ago:D

but it is nice to see you have recovered:)



XANATOS

IN THE LAND OF HOME THEATER

THE THREE EYED MONSTER IS KING
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post #196 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
oh comes on guys
there are some rear projection
owners who will gladly trade
"Some," maybe. Probably less than 5% of the total. No way, no how is it the 50% plus that Mike's been advocating. Not on this planet.

QQQ, love the examples, but I really can't decide which one applies to Mike! Maybe a bit of all of them blended together.....

(I'm not really picking on you, Mike, but your ever-shifting argument is simply ludicrous).

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post #197 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by xanatos
QQQ
it would seem you have forgotten
the butt whooping mike gave you
a short time ago:D

but it is nice to see you have recovered:)
I'm not sure what you are referring to but based on that observation you must have thought Michael Spinks won his 91 second fight with Mike Tyson.

http://www.cnnsi.com/features/tyson/...urt/070488.jpg
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post #198 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 03:36 PM
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The utility of this thread has now been confirmed. If we argue and debate long enough over ridiculous propositions (e.g., very few people know about CRT, but if they did, lots of people would want one), his excellency QQQ will show up to favor us with one of his classics.
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post #199 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobertWood
A myth is being perpetuated in this debate.
That it's a given that these little projectors are giving those of us who use them an inferior picture. That their only value is in qualities other than picture.

It's just not so. Tonight I got to see the evidence. On the same screen at the same time.

My pulldown hangs from a chain stretched from wall to wall. I lowered it so that half of the CRT projector's image was displayed on the top half of the screen. I got one 4:3 copy of Final Destination 2 playing in my HTPC feeding RGB to the CRT. I shifted and blanked the picture so that the top of the movie picture was being displayed.
Got a 2nd copy of the same movie going in my DVD player and fed 720p DVI to the HT1000 and positioned it to shoot the top of it's image onto the lower half of the screen. The same portion of the same movie picture being displayed one on top of the other.
I paused both DVD's at the same spot. Then I restarted both. And watched for about a half hour. While a little makeshift and certainly not optimal conditions, it did provide a direct comparison for my eyes to judge both at exactly the same time.

You can choose not to accept this if you like. But I have no axe to grind. I have no reason to be biased. I have no reason to lie to you.
Verdict: It was close but overall I honestly liked the DLP picture better.

I'm not saying that you couldn't have a different opinion if you had seen what I just saw. But I very much doubt that you would have come away from this and be thinking there is still a big gap in picture quality. Because there's just not.

Bob
Bob, this seems to be a unique and very useful comparison not very many of us would be lucky enough to see. If you and all the equipment are still around I for one would love to see any screenshots you could take of this. Better still would be comparison screenshots from 1x and 1.5x both projectors.

I'm just guessing that a bigger picture viewed close up to the screen favors crt due to film like appearance, but I'm no expert. Would you still favor the DLP if both pictures were 10.5' wide and you were say a little less than 10' away? Unlike most people thats about where I sit, to me it creates an illusion that I am really there. At that proximity I have always noticed screendoor at other DLP's I have seen but its been awhile and maybe newer DLPs like yours are getting better?

Bob
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post #200 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 04:32 PM
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QQQ i will leave it to mike to point
out your moment of shame:D

myself i dont know how many
would rather have a crt fp
over a rptv
but i do know six years ago
i wanted a 70 inch rptv
but i couldn't afford one :o :(
so i answered a add for a 72 inch advent videobeam 1000
at the cost of only 200$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)
no the advent was not as good as a new rptv:(
but the Mitsubishi was about 3,000$$$$
later that year my business took off and i could
the rptv:) but i answered a add for a 84 inch
tv for 500$$
it was a novabeam 100 it was every bit as good
as the Mitsubishi i was lusting after
it was even brighter than the rptv
with the 13 gain curved screen:cool:
it came with and larger
i never thought about buying a rptv again

how many on this very forum
wanted a rptv to Begin with
once exposed to fptv changed there mind



so here is a happy crt front projection
tv owner who once wanted a rpt
who once exposed to a good crt fp tv system
changed his mind and went
for the crt projector:)


XANATOS

IN THE LAND OF HOME THEATER

THE THREE EYED MONSTER IS KING
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post #201 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 04:37 PM
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QQQ
Good to hear from you again even if you are digitally corrupted, mislead and brainwashed with your vision now completely washed out.
I thought maybe Mr Hand had suspended you for hangin a rat but I can now see you were simply doing the research for your current attack on all things analog.
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post #202 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kysersose
Wow!

I guess if you keep changing your original statement you'll find that you can make yourself seem correct.
You got that right. Mike's spinning his own version of the Drake equation in which he keeps redefining the value of N, which is the number of rabid converts (or would-be converts) to CRT front projection:

N* x Fm x Nht x Ffp x Fwagas x Fcrt = N

Where....

N* = the total number of people on the planet

Fm = the fraction of those who are movie lovers

Nht = the number of those who have home theaters with Direct view or RPTV displays.

Ffp = the fraction of those who would be interested in learning about and seeing front projection setups for home theater.

Fwagas = the fraction of those who actually give a sh*t.

Fcrt = the fraction of those who buy a used CRT projector.

--Jerome
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post #203 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 05:11 PM
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You guys need a refresher of what my original claim was...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...96#post2709796

That was post #71.

So you disagree that I said that an RPTV owner would most likely trade their RPTV for my FPTV. Point taken. However, I said that in post #111 to support my claim in post #71. You disagree with what I said in post #111, but you guys still seem to be dodging my main claim -- what I said in post #71.

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post #204 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 05:20 PM
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No, you're pretty much wrong in post #71 too.

David Forbes

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post #205 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by xanatos


WAF ANOTHER PLUS
YOU LIVE THERE TO
BE A MAN AND LET HER KNOW IT
TELL HER THIS IS YOUR ROOM
AND THAT YOU ARE WILLING TO SHARE IT WITH HER
AND THAT A MIGHTY CRT PROJECTOR AND ALL YOUR
OTHER TOYS ARE HOW YOU MARK YOUR TERRITORY
IF SHE DOES NOT ACCEPT THIS
MARK YOUR TERRITORY BY PI$$ING ON THE COUCH
GIVE HER THE CHOICE I BELIEVE SHE WILL GO FOR
THE HOME THEATER WITH A CRT PROJECTOR
I agree wholeheartedly with this. Why do so many men allow their other half to dictate what they can have in thier house? That is the absolute STUPIDEST thing I have heard in my entire life! Those kind of guys are what we call a Wuss...part wimp and part pussy. I am not married, but when I do get married, you can bet your ass that I will call the shots around here! Men are supposed to wear the pants in the house and to think there are some guys that worry about whether their wives will allow such things as a front projector in their own home is laughable! I buy whatever I want to buy, and put whatever I want to put in my home...PERIOD
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post #206 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 05:40 PM
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Bob (Rvonse),

I can tell you positively that I would be unhappy using the XGA DLP on a 10' wide screen when sitting 10' away. 1.5x is the biggest picture size I want to make. Anything bigger and pixelation starts to become visible. And I dislike pixelation as much as anyone out here.

But, I can also assure you that I would never be happy trying to use my 8" CRT with 10'@10' either. At one point I decided to try to go bigger than what I always have used (80"@10'). I bought a 96" wide screen and shot the projector onto that. That 8'@10' picture was still even considerably smaller than what you're talking about. And the screen brightness suffered too much to suit me. Kenny and I determined that we would have had to drive the projector harder than we wanted to get the same foot lamberts that I'm used to.
I'm not interested in looking at a picture that's not giving me natural looking light levels. I realize some of you prefer to give that up to make a huge picture. But it's not for me. And not even if I had the lumens to pull it off. I just don't like sitting in front of a huge picture that makes my eyes wander. Where I sit in a movie theater is similar to the image size I make at home.

Bob
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post #207 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by David F
No, you're pretty much wrong in post #71 too.
David, you forgot to add the phrase "in my opinion" in your above quoted exhaustive proof of why I'm wrong in post #71, where my original claim resides.

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post #208 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 06:20 PM
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Oh, almost forgot. I wish I could get decent
screenshots, Bob.
I've tried with my Cybershot but can't get anything but a
dim washed out looking mess.
I have a photographer friend who took my drive-in pics
with his film cameras. Maybe I can get him over one
day to take indoor screenshots.
Have you seen the drive-in pic? This is with an
LT150 DLP on a 12' wide screen (er house).

Bob

http://members.cox.net/bobwood21/DRIVE150.JPG
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post #209 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
David, you forgot to add the phrase "in my opinion" in your above quoted exhaustive proof of why I'm wrong in post #71, where my original claim resides.
No, I didn't forget, but it's just not worth the effort anymore.

Quote:
I am not married, but when I do get married, you can bet your ass that I will call the shots around here!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! If that's not a joke then I hope you enjoy your bachelorhood, it's going to last a while (like until death).

David Forbes

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post #210 of 287 Old 09-26-2003, 07:42 PM
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I think this thread has gotten to the point that it is time to settle the issue and have a definitive way of doing it. I had till now stayed out of this thread since it had not reached a point where my knowledge ,time and talents would have been used to best advantage. I had hoped that someone of my stature and credibility would not have had to come into this to embarrass all of you.

Each of you can settle this and then perhaps the moderator will close the thread. Get a small balance type scale . Set your manhood on and read the number( be sure to zero first for accuracy) . The highest accurately obtained value wins . If you guys need anything else let me know.:D

Art

My HT


iRule rules my theater
 

"If she's amazing she won't be easy,if she's easy she won't be amazing"

 

Bob Marley

Art Sonneborn is offline  
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