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betcha never seen a CRT vs LCD comparison like this!

23K views 266 replies 58 participants last post by  plissken99 
#1 ·
I borrowed the Epson PowerLite 715c LCD (1200 ANSI lumens, 1024x768, $5699) from work to see how a high-lumen projector would compare to my Electrohome Marquee 8000 CRT.


Here's the exact same camera (4MP Canon S45), on the exact same screen (12'x8' drywall painted with Sherwin Williams Ultra Bright White Matte), with the exact same frame from "Fifth Element" (I have 2 copies, LCD has the "Superbit Edition"). LCD from my laptop at 1024x768. CRT from my HTPC at 1024x768. Both using WinDVD 4.


Tripod, AWB, and auto-exposure.


Give it time to load. It should cycle between 4 images (I used PSP Animation Shop)...

- me standing in front of the screen with both projectors turned on

- screen with both projectors on (but without me)

- just the LCD (higher image)

- just the CRT (lower image and slightly larger)

http://members.aol.com/marcorsyscom/5e.gif


Some observations:


My Marquee is set at Brightness=40 and Contrast=40.


256 color GIFs aren't the best for showing screenshots, but I couldn't do an animated JPG. I'll post larger JPGs separately.


My CRT is slightly stretched because I like the widescreen view, but I don't like the wasted space on the screen, so I stretch it taller. I didn't realize how much taller I was stretching it until seeing how skinny Bruce's face looks here.


The LCD is 6' further back behind the CRT, but I ran out of cord space, so I couldn't get the image any larger. So if anything, it should be about 10% brighter because the image isn't as large.


The LCD image is higher because from the back of the room, I had to get it to shine over my theater seats. I also had to change my usual tripod position because the bulb left a very distinct shadow on the screen when I had it set in front, so I moved it further back and slightly offset. The tripod is usually set right under my ceiling mounted CRT.


I don't want this to be a LCD bashing thread, but I was impressed with the relative brightness of my CRT (with only 225 ANSI lumens vs the Epson's 1200 ANSI lumens!)


I know this LCD projector is 2001 technology, but it's the best I could borrow, and my CRT is from 1995. The LCD's screen door effect was also worse than I remembered from when I'd borrowed the Epson before I bought my CRT. I took some screenshots of SDE too.


Man, I love my Marquee!


-Clarence
 
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#205 ·
Never noticed it before, but they are the same guy. Funny I would recognize him from "I, Claudius" (which I saw about ten years ago), and not Gladiator, which I've only seen about 20 times. But, checked out the cast of both movies, and Derek Jacobi is in both.
 
#209 ·
Mercer,



Excellent smooth image (smaller version below) Flesh tomes are slightly pinker and lack just a little shadow detail, but overall, a fabulous image.


You failed to mention your screen of choice? Inquiring minds want to know.
 
#211 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by MississippiMan
Mercer,

Excellent smooth image (smaller version below) Flesh tomes are slightly pinker and lack just a little shadow detail, but overall, a fabulous image.


You failed to mention your screen of choice? Inquiring minds want to know.
Thanks for making the image smaller, what program did you use?

Either way, I'm not sure I used the correct ISO set on my camera. Hence the fleshtones might be abit off due to that. (I set it to ISO 400, whatever that means.) Probably should have left it at Auto.


In regards to shadow-detail, that is the camera's fault, I tried it's different shutter speeds (from 4 secs down to 1/4's sec, the 1/3's sec was the first that didn't produce clipped whites, and the one I chose). Seems the PJ has got more contrast than the camera, hence it's hard to show the potential of the projector. :)


In regards to screen, it's 128" in diamater. It's a grey screen, painted directly on the wall. I've got a professional grey screen that I bought recently, but it turned out that the wall I was using was AFAI could tell perfectly equal. (I'll still be putting up the grey screen, as the wall I'm using has a problem with one of the seams cracking up. As seen in the above picture.. :-( )


My next experiment will be to take my Sony HS-20 over to my friends house, and set it up there to compare my LCD with his Barco Graphics 808s. We'll be using the same source, and same screen, we'll try to do some A/B shots. It'll be interesting to see how they compare.


He's got a white screen, so it'll be a challenge for my HS-20 to produce as good blacks as his CRT. I'll also be bringing along a light-meter to compare light output on regular movies.


Here is another image I took of my HS-20:
Fifth Element 2


Regards,

Tore K.
 
#212 ·
hafta add my 2 bob


sony HS10 LCD vs sony VPH-1252 CRT


must admit I would like another CRT and am on the market for a 125x/127x, to a degree I liked the fiddling ;)


these shots are very basic, taken I think about 6 months ago - I no longer have the 1252.


1252 had about 2400 hours with "mild" blue burn - 4x3 even wear pattern.


hs10 had about 500 hours, and died about a week after these shots, and I must admit came back about 15 percent BRIGHTER after sony put 2 new globes, new power supply and some logic IC that cost heaps in the unit.


Yes I know the 1252 isnt converged perfectly, but the focus is pretty good as far as I can remeber and the image is 8 feet wide which is pretty big. Shooting onto of all things, table cloth matierial over a home made frame, had some contacts, the cloth has a nice shine to it and is pure white.

The beasts in question

Here the 1252 vs's hs10 obligatory toy story comparison

Heres a "look at the crap grey black of the LCD" comparison shot


ahh and have to add both are being fed SVIDEO from a cheap DVD player, pal 50 hz, from my sony amp which has 2 SVHS outs on it, using identicle 10 meter reasonable (70 bucks each at jb hifi reduced from 89 bucks each) SVHS cables.


I always ran the 1252 at 60 brightness and 80 contrast to give it some pep.


while I am at it here is a 1080i shot on my current screen which is roughly 9x5 feet 16x9 screen, made of the same material.


the camera I used is a sony p71 cyber shot, its a rudimentry 3.2 mega pixel, set to full auto everything, and images havent been touched.
 
#213 ·
Wow. I came across this link in another thread about screenshots in the dPJ forum...

http://dvd.index.hu/index.php?cikkid=3768


The pictures are too small to be useful, but look at the wide range of tints they get from the same scene from different projectors and different inputs.


I don't speak Hungarian, but I'm assuming they used default settings like I did for my LCD shots.


-Clarence
 
#214 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by marcorsyscom

look at the wide range of tints they get from the same scene from different projectors and different inputs.
Only problem is we never know if the color tint is inherent to the projector or instead is only due to it's color settings not being properly adjusted.


Same's true with this conglomeration of over thirty different screenshots (all the same movie scene) and each made with a different projector (both digital and CRT).


Note: put your cursor over a thumbnail to see which projector is making that picture. Then double click if you want to see the full size version.

http://www2.lut.fi/~maeronen/leeloo.html
 
#216 ·
I shouldn't be saying this since I'm supposed to be taking the digital side with all this, but take a look at the full size 1272QM screenshot on that page (center column, five up from the bottom).


That one blows all the digital screenshots out of the water. And that's a lousy 7" CRT projector that aint even got no EM focusing. Very, very impressive.
 
#218 ·
I have three computer monitors in use. Two CRT and one LCD. None of the three have been color calibrated using calibration instruments or AVIA. Only cursory color adjustment using my eyes (as is usually the case with PC monitors).

And a given screenshot looks pretty much the same colorwise on all three monitors. In the real world, things are not always as complicated as we want to make them around here.
 
#219 ·
I agree. 600 pixel screenshots are going to be limited for any substantial analysis, regardless of whether your monitor has been calibrated.


But I wouldn't use any of these screenshots as a deciding factor in a purchase decision. Hmmm, or would I? Maybe I wouldn't use it as a "primary" decision factor, but limited comparisons are better than zero comparisons.
 
#220 ·
Quote:
Great link Bob! Look at the exact same "seasick Hulk" tint that he gets from the exact same LCD projector (Epson PowerLite 715c ) with the exact same Leeloo scene that I used in my comparison!


Hopefully this will confirm that I wasn't trying to sabotage the LCD results by using its default settings.
I just figured out why the image looks so damn similar...

It's my frickin' screenshot on his site!


(unless he has the same seats I have and the same old ECP hanging up in the upper right corner, which I can see in the shadows on my laptop's screen, but not my desktop monitor)


I guess he just compiled a lot of screenshots from different forums (which is still pretty cool).


So that blows my evidence on the projector's tint being that bad by default. But, trust me, I used default settings and the digicam was locked to the EXACT same settings.


-Clarence
 
#225 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by marcorsyscom
Tore- your "LCD vs CRT" URL link is broken


EDIT:

What dPJ was used in the SDE screenshot on your website ?

And people thought the skin in my LCD shot was green! :)
Thanks, I budged up the link. I've fixed it now, and I can include it here as well:
http://home.online.no/~tklev/LCDvsCRT/


In regards to the SDE shots, they are taken a year ago with my friends Epson TW-100 on my 128" screen.


Regards,

Tore K.
 
#226 ·
Well, I think that I can reccomend my sister get a HS20 for her "movie night" at her store. That looks pretty good for a cheap digital. Digital looks great on still images, but the motion is another story. OK, all you guys can beat me up for saying it looks good now.


MRW
 
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