Was the Guy Kuo Shootout Fair - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HEAT
My view is that ANY crt from 7" up will beat ANY single chip dlp -at this moment.
First you say this and then you say it is unfair to compare an 8" LC to one of the best single chip DLPs. Which is it?

Is it unfair to test your theory?

I doubt you will ever come through with your offer to do a shootout with a CRT compared to someone's high end digital. I plan on referencing this comment in the future since I am confident that you will never come through. :)

--Darin

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post #182 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HEAT


My view is that ANY crt from 7" up will beat ANY single chip dlp -at this moment.
So you've seen every 7" CRT projector perform. And you've seen every single chip DLP projector perform? Well in that case I misjudged you.
You must know what you're talking about. DLP must not be worth a crap afterall. We don't even need any more shootouts or comparisons or glogs or whatever? Thanks for settling it for us.
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post #183 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 01:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Guy Kuo
No. We didn't measure the Sharp's light level. It was definitely bright enough. I didn't see a need to intentionally hobble its CR by dragging its light output down when the CRT already had a clearly better on/off contrast. The big advance for DLP was combining a superior ANSI contrast with a pretty good absolute black level. That made the image envelope in which CRT could dominate much smaller than expected.
I guess what I was after was something a little different. Adding a neutral density filter wouldn't harm the contrast on the Sharp 11K, but would lower the black level. I thought that had the 11K been measured and shown to have a significant about of light that it could be sacrified in favor of lowering that black level and holding the contrast constant.
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post #184 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 01:09 PM
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Darinp;-

"There is nothing wrong with changing opinions. My problem is that you claim you never said things and don't take responsibility for things you have said in the past, IMO. When people point out exactly where you said things you then get mad."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
..uh..no i dont..i am responsible to myself for what i saynot responsible to you and others.
I "claim" nothing...i have said my opinion changes-a post i made 3 mths ago is not relevant today..like all of us i have the capability and right to change my opinion.
Im not getting mad,i think its amusing when i make a valid point that the comparison was flawed that the nastiness comes..
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post #185 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 01:18 PM
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Fullabeer;-
HEAT;-

"I come across people like you all the time on the internet,(I PREFER WATCHING MOVIES.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ and you hide behind your computer screen.(NO I DONT BECAUSE IF I DO THAT I CANT SEE IT.)
You make statements purely to offend or cause reaction. And in the most part it works.(NO I DONT-AND YOU SHOULDNT BE SO TOUCHY)

But i have found that people like you come unstuck eventually.(AND WHAT IS THIS PEARL OF WISDOM BASED ON?)
You are not someone who is passionate about CRTs(YOUR WRONG THERE.) or anything for that matter,(YOUR A PSYCHIC NOW..) as reading some of your earlier posts reveals.(YOU CAN READ?)
You are also inciting normally decent CRT members of this forum to agree with your method of arguement.(insults)-(WHAT INSULTS?..HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY ARE DECENT?)
You forget that for now, i'm also a CRT owner.(OOOOHHHHHHH..)
My opinions are based on what i see,(LAY OFF THE BEER..) and i have no wish to upset anybody.(YOU AINT DOING A BAD JOB WITH ME..)

If this is the type of person you have to be to own a CRT, then i'm glad i swopped.(YOUR SO COOL..)
You are only proving me right(IS THERE ANOTHER WAY?) that i shouldn't come here again.(..PLEASE DONT GO..) Which is a shame as the knowledge base here is superior than the BULB section.(EH? THERES A BULB FORUM?)

In the meantime i think i will choose to ignore you.(YOUR SO BUTCH..YOULL BE GOING ROUND PEOPLES HOUSES NEXT..)
So feel free to twist and rant and rave(ILL DO A BEATLES IMPRESSION JUST FOR YOU..) about me and my posts/objectives.
I won't respond to them..."(...AAAAHHHHHHH..PLEASE RESPOND..PLEASE RESPOND..BET YOUVE HEARD THAT BEFORE...)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:D :D :D :D :D
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post #186 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 01:27 PM
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Darin,
This was my statement in its entirety(..as you well know..)

"My view is that ANY crt from 7" up will beat ANY single chip dlp -at this moment.

There would have been a few better ways to do this comparison-first attempt to have some synergy-second either compare the best of dlp to the best of crt...or the 6k Sharp to a 6k crt.."


So there are two scenarios referenced here;-
(1) my view
(2) a suggestion for a better comparison.

The two are independant of each other.


Robert,
Being that my hobby has been cinema and home cinema for 20 years-and near enough every weekend I have looked at one projector or another-I have seen MANY projectors.
I have owned/sold many projectors over the years..my quest is for the ultimate picture as is all of our quest.
Now if you want me to expand on that fair enough-PM me.Ill tell you all the projectors ive seen/owned-their fors/againsts/my preferences-whatever..
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post #187 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 01:35 PM
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"I think I can get some HD resolution test patterns (destined for the Avia PRO HD supplement) into a usable format for Sunday. 720P and 1080P out to HD max should suffice"

Guy,

I don't know if you have something that will be outputting 1080P to the G-70 or if that is even what you meant by this statement. But as you know the G70's tubes (like the XG tubes) are really to small to fully resolve 1080P. I know it will hanle the input but the picture will sofen with 1080p as the lines overlap.
But then I know that you already knew this.
Wish I could be there and bring the "big gun".....lol

Terry

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post #188 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 01:40 PM
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why not shoot-out against a 9500 lc ? i got mine for 4k. 1/3 the price of the sharp. Why compare to an 8" when a used 9 inch is still much cheaper and likely much better than ANY digital !
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post #189 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 01:44 PM
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my setup doesnt soften AT ALL going from 720 to 1080 ! It blows a G70 away! use a 9" marquee! lets make it fair. Terry can set up the marquee and guy can do the sharp.
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post #190 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 01:48 PM
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"I doubt you will ever come through with your offer to do a shootout with a CRT compared to someone's high end digital. I plan on referencing this comment in the future since I am confident that you will never come through."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Darin,
Ive done many shootouts in the past with friends with various projectors-I enjoy shootouts ,i would love to do a shootout with a top crt against a top digital.
As i say soon-hopefully,i will have a G70-once it is setup and ready to roll i would welcome an opportunity to compare.

What i dont like is the pervading odour of sarcasm in this statement and insinuation that i would renege? What is this based on ? Have i ever setup a shootout with anyone in here and not complied?
Do not be so hasty to make judgements of someone you dont know-there is a very strong chance that i have organised many more shootouts than you-so what though?

Put your money where your mouth is -is what I will say. winner take all..forget the Village People ...
;) ;) ;) :D :D :D :D :D
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post #191 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 01:50 PM
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..and youll lose your Sharp 11k as will Fullabeer his Marantz S3...

aaahhh.."humans are such easy prey.."
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post #192 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 01:52 PM
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Madclammer..Thats not fair the 9500 AGAINST THAT POOR LITTLE SHARP????
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post #193 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by madclammer
why not shoot-out against a 9500 lc ? i got mine for 4k. 1/3 the price of the sharp.
You know that statement is BS. How many times are people going to say a new 11k/12k costs $12k?
Quote:

Why compare to an 8" when a used 9 inch is still much cheaper and likely much better than ANY digital !
You guys already told me that a cheap CRT would beat my digital. Neither Guy or I said that the 11k would beat a good 9 inch CRT.

We've already been over this ground multiple times, but an $8k CRT better beat a $8k digital. Otherwise, why would anybody buy the CRT? There are obvious convenience factors (not even counting the warranty) that will make a lighter projector with all the latest inputs sell for more. If an $8k digital put out the exact same images as today's $8k CRT the CRT price would plummet to compensate for the disadvantages.

I've told you before that you will have the price/performance advantage for a very long time if these convenience factors are discounted because of this. I don't think any intelligent person would argue otherwise. The markets will rebalance.

Now if you guys really want to make this unfair lets throw on an HD football game on a 10' wide screen with some lights on so people can see their beer and food. The 11k can do that with two touches of a button (the iris control), but I'm trying to play in areas where the CRT has been claimed to be strong while still mentioning the limitations of the 11k (don't get too close to the screen for instance).

BTW: You mentioned elsewhere that it would be 5-10 years before a digital could beat a MP 9500 lc. Do you still believe that? I am confident that you were talking about pure performance at the time.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #194 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Now if you guys really want to make this unfair lets throw on an HD football game on a 10' wide screen with some lights on so people can see their beer and food.
http://members.aol.com/marcorsyscom/superbowl.jpg

We left 5 out of 6 basement lights ON for our Superbowl party! (M8000 with FusionHDTV on 172" screen)

Geez, can't we ever have a thread where Clarence doesn't mention his foolish screen?!

:)

-Clarence
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post #195 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by marcorsyscom We left 5 out of 6 basement lights ON for our Superbowl party! (M8000 with FusionHDTV on 172" screen)[/b]
I didn't say you couldn't do it. If you compared that to the 11k on the same screen with the iris open I bet the CRT would look dim in comparison.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #196 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 02:12 PM
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O.k.Darin..listen carefully.....I LIKE THE 11K...I LIKE THE 11K...

..I THINK ITS THE BEST DLP OUT THERE....

...YOU HAVE THE DLP CHAMP....

..But...its NOT the best picture in the world....its beaten by -i believe(..if you factor in the pixel scenario as a major negative) most 7" crt`s ..most 8" and ALL 9"...

IF...You ignore that minor intrusion of loads of little squares in the picture..then the 11k is as good as most 7" crt`s-brighter..poorer black level though...so what else shall we leave out to stack the oods further in the 11k`s favour?

Do you believe it has the beating of the G70? .. AND WHY SHOULD An 8" crt be expected to be better?...its old technology..isnt it?

ENJOY your 11k but stop trying to persuade everyone that its better than everything else...your becoming like Robert that sells a Ferrari and buys a Lada then spends the rest of his days trying to persuade all his former crt pals that the Nec HT1000 is better than top notch crt`s...

You guys are becoming like reformed smokers.....
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post #197 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 02:16 PM
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"I didn't say you couldn't do it. If you compared that to the 11k on the same screen with the iris open I bet the CRT would look dim in comparison."

HAHAHAHHAAAAAAA....how can you say that when the evidence is posted in a Marquee 8000 picture-you telling me your Sharp is LOTS brighter than this?
...whos losing credability now...
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post #198 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HEAT
ENJOY your 11k but stop trying to persuade everyone that its better than everything else...
Where did I do this? I have talked about the strengths and weaknesses of each. I want the facts, not some fantasy forum.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #199 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RVonse
Surely you are not serious. :( What in the world can you be thinking?:confused:

Your saying you want to trade your 9" EM focus Liquid coupled projector for an entry level video grade 7" projector?:confused:

Just doesn't make any sense to me.
Bob, the 1031Q is data grade, not video grade. ;)

Step 1)
Take a 1031Q with good tubes.

Step 2)
Swap out the HD-6 lenses for HD-144 lenses.

Step 3)
Hook a HTPC with an MP-1 modded Radeon up to it.

Step 4)
Enjoy total eye candy on a projector that was designed when Ronald Reagan was president.

:)

- Mike Young
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post #200 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 02:25 PM
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What is said again and again is that the strength of dlp is ANSI cr. A Runco 3-chip was specified at 1000:1 ANSI cr to my surprise so there is hope for 3-chip dlp. Is there anyone that thinks or knows that any crt can compete in ANSI cr.

Noone is claiming the 11k beats a good crt on only low light scenes. This was pointed out. It is also cool that blackout technology is coming to dlp and so is more resolution.

Mattias Ohlson
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post #201 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 02:26 PM
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At least we can all agree, we've gotten at least two spirited discussion threads out of the projector comparison.

Guy Kuo
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post #202 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 02:30 PM
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..No Darin ..you almost overlooked the strengths of crt in waxing lyrical about the 11k..conveniently leaving out the pixel structure from the equation...conveniently having the Sharp going all digital...and the crt analogue...not looking at crt...not looking at a larger screen....
All these objections null and void the compariosn from saying anything positive..no screenshot comaprisons-which in isolation would have meant nothing-in conjunction with the shootout and your comments-might have..

I said with no malice intended-the shootout was flawed,your intentions may have been honourable no doubt..but the end results the same...a missed opportunity to persuasively prove the superiority of a top notch dlp over a high ranking crt...

You have not done that...and i feel you have missed an opportunity here..contrary to what you might think,i cant wait for the day that i can get a tiny little digital and have the picture of a 9" crt!

A more persuasive argument might have coerced a few of us to have another look at the digital contender...

But for now,crt is still champ until proven otrherwise..
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post #203 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HEAT
"I didn't say you couldn't do it. If you compared that to the 11k on the same screen with the iris open I bet the CRT would look dim in comparison."

HAHAHAHHAAAAAAA....how can you say that when the evidence is posted in a Marquee 8000 picture-you telling me your Sharp is LOTS brighter than this?
...whos losing credability now...
Hilarious. The Marquee is rated lower in brightness than both the XG135LC and the G70. The Sharp in high brightness mode is probably close to 3 times as bright as Guy's XG135LC. The CRT could probably be run harder, but yes, I am confident that the Marquee 8000 image with HD football would look dim in a comparison to the 11k.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #204 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
"I didn't say you couldn't do it. If you compared that to the 11k on the same screen with the iris open I bet the CRT would look dim in comparison."
I happened to perform a comparison with an 11k I borrowed from work. Marquee on left, 11K on right...

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/508...erbowl-sde.jpg

I better stop having fun before I get in trouble. This thread degraded fast. I was interested in the initial comparisons, nobody claimed they were supposed to be "fair". They were just some personal observations to ponder.

:)

-Clarence
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post #205 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 02:50 PM
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Clarence,
I almost defecated . I'm on the slow dial up at work and I was anticipating at least some morsel of comparison in a screen shot but didn't anticipate that.:D Wait, I just checked, I did defecate ...I'm out.:( :D

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post #206 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by HEAT
Darin,
This was my statement in its entirety(..as you well know..)

"My view is that ANY crt from 7" up will beat ANY single chip dlp -at this moment.

So there are two scenarios referenced here;-
.
Actually, there is only one scenario required to prove you wrong, which you must be getting accustomed to by now. All he has to find is 7" CRT to beat with his DLP. But unlike your biased a$$, Darin will seek another excellent 8" CRT to compare to his DLP. As I'm sure you know, your name embodies your goal in this forum. Not to engage in valuable discussion, but rather to make inflammatory comments and once caught to backtrack into other a$inine comments/claims.

Cheers,
R.

Ignorance more frequently begets confidence, than it does knowledge. Charles Darwin
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post #207 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by marcorsyscom
I happened to perform a comparison with an 11k I borrowed from work.
Good one. BTW: I want to work someplace that has the latest home theater projectors I can borrow. :)

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #208 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Art Sonneborn
I was anticipating at least some morsel of comparison in a screen shot but didn't anticipate that.:D
The same dead horses get beat every week, so I thought a reference to the last hot and heavy CRT vs Digital thread would be good for a giggle...

Quote:
I want to work someplace that has the latest home theater projectors I can borrow
Yeah, my boss bought them for his Home Theater, but couldn't stand the digital image, so he threw them in the conference room and labelled them "For Powerpoint Use Only".

:)
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post #209 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 03:11 PM
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Clarence...you rock.
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post #210 of 500 Old 02-10-2004, 03:19 PM
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Just having fun...

And before this gets taken out of context, here's the obvious disclaimer. The original CRT screenshot was legit. Auto settings on my digicam, no post-processing. The second "CRT vs 11K" image was doctored in PaintShopPro with brightness and a 1 pixel "weave" overlay.

My CRT vs LCD images in last week's thread were not doctored in any fashion.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled bashing...
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