BLOG #2: Sony G70 and Sharp XV-Z11000 Comparison - Page 20 - AVS Forum
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post #571 of 588 Old 03-09-2004, 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by BenY
That`s what it looks like on my NEC and i wish i could get rid of.One thing i can say,it started after a full system rest.So i think it may have to do with custom factory calibration within the service menu.
That's it, however, where is it in relation to the avtive picture area and aty what refresh rate?

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post #572 of 588 Old 03-09-2004, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by techman707
It sounds like what you are describing may not actually be a retrace line. If I understand you correctly, if it were to start on the left at the AKB line and end at the right of the AKB line, the point that infringes the most would be in the center of the screen (like a sagging line)? Would it show on a picture?

Bruce
Yes, it is a sagging, faint arc whose end points are exactly at the end points of the AKB line. The center of the arc infringes into the image area. We believe it to be the retrace of the AKB line, not a retrace of an image line.

I've seen the odd lines which appear if the image is shifted too far up or down. This doesn't look like those.

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post #573 of 588 Old 03-09-2004, 09:26 AM
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Guy,

Is the line the same as in the pix posted by BenY ? While it is always there, it shouldn't infringe onto the active picture area. That line IS different than the "retrace lines" that appear if the picture is not shifted to the proper position.

Once again, there is an adjustment that DOES NOT appear in the SM that is sometimes necessary when tubes are replaced that can affect the AKB. I've been looking for my notes and the additional documentation that I had when I attended the Sony training seminar back around 1996. There were MANY checks that were talked about that wasn't documented in the SM. Sony's manual's are the worst on the face of the earth and seem to get worse every year.

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post #574 of 588 Old 03-09-2004, 09:34 AM
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Guy (or Steve),

If I recall, the signal was from an HTPC, which I assume was with Power Strip software. I know that Steve said he was running at 85kHz refresh, but could you post the rest of the Power Strip info, like the porch timing, etc.? I want to be sure that I am reproducing the exact settings that Steve had, since it is possible to create timings in Power Strip that are really not correct.

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post #575 of 588 Old 03-09-2004, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, it looks like BenY's picture. The amount of sag worsens with increasing scan rate. At the higher rates used with HTPC's, the sag increases so much that it dips down into the active image area. Steve runs his machine at 85 Hz x 720 lines so really dips down on his G70.

I've sent a note to Steve to look back at this thread. We'll need him to give us the settings.

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post #576 of 588 Old 03-09-2004, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BenY
That`s what it looks like on my NEC and i wish i could get rid of.One thing i can say,it started after a full system rest.So i think it may have to do with custom factory calibration within the service menu.
Ben,

Which NEC do you own? On my XG110 the AKB line is a very faint white line. It is completely absorbed by the black velvet that surrounds my screen. Even in complete darkness I cannot see it unless I move the velvet or look into the CRT's.


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post #577 of 588 Old 03-09-2004, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I just realized that Ben's is on a NEC. I haven't seen this on a NEC except for when the image is shifted too far up or down in the raster. Maybe I haven't been looking close enough for it.

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post #578 of 588 Old 03-09-2004, 09:58 AM
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I realized that Ben's pix was from an NEC, but since it's the same as what you described, I wanted to see if he could take a pix with it showing in the active picture area. I'm not sure if in his case it's actually in the picture, or he's just annoyed that it's there at the top of the screen. It seems that not only do the NEC's and Sony's share the same tubes, they may also share some of the same problems.

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post #579 of 588 Old 03-09-2004, 11:04 AM
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Hi,
I mostly use a squeezed picture but even on 4x3 picture the arched RGB is going through the top part of the picture,in squeeze mode its even worse because the AKB line is on the white part of the screen,but the arches are clearly visible in all conditions.
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post #580 of 588 Old 03-09-2004, 12:14 PM
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Hi everyone,

Recently I've tried a bunch of different scan rates and it really doesn't matter what resolution or refresh rate I use. The lines are always there and sag about the same amount. If you're still interested I can post the powerstrip settings when I get home tonight.

Bruce, are you saying you're not seeing these lines on any of your G70's? Try pressing picture mute on the remote then look into the lenses. If AKB is enabled you should be able to clearly see both the main AKB and retrace lines. I can shift the image around all over the place but it doesn't change the visibility of AKB lines. The only way to get rid of them that I'm aware of is to disable AKB. For me this results in poor gray scale tracking and lower light output.
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post #581 of 588 Old 03-09-2004, 12:47 PM
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Steve,

This is getting curiouser and curiouser! While I can certainly see the lines looking into the tubes, NONE of my machines have the lines encrouching into the picture area, even with a full 4:3 image (blanking wide open of course). Something isn't right here.

If you have NO INPUT signal and put up a white field, can you still see it? Also, Change through the internal frequencies. If I had that happening, I would go crazy.

Ben,

When did you first notice it on your NEC?

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post #582 of 588 Old 03-09-2004, 02:38 PM
 
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Quote:
curiouser
:rolleyes: ;)
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post #583 of 588 Old 03-09-2004, 03:34 PM
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Guy, Steve,

I just finished checking it again. From the AKB line, the DIP of the line you're talking about drops to a maximum of about 40mm from the AKB line in the center. From that point, there is at least another 30 to 40mm BEFORE you would be into the picture, which is why I never saw the problem.


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post #584 of 588 Old 03-09-2004, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Steve's drops at least a good 6 to 8 inches into the image. I've seen the same on D50's.

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post #585 of 588 Old 03-09-2004, 05:04 PM
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While I'm not sure what the problem is, I can assure you that something is wrong. Since I own and have worked on so many G70 and D50's and have never had this particular problem, out of curiosity I'm going to start a thread to find out how many other G70 and D50 owners might have this problem.

I'll post Ben's picture so they understand what I'm talking about.

Bruce

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post #586 of 588 Old 03-09-2004, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Guy Kuo
Steve's drops at least a good 6 to 8 inches into the image. I've seen the same on D50's.
I just measured it on the HD and PC inputs. The main AKB line is 2" above the screen. The retrace lines are about 3" into the active picture area at the center of the screen or about 5" below the main AKB line.
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post #587 of 588 Old 03-09-2004, 11:24 PM
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techman707,
I`m sure it started after i did a full system reset,and it show also on my second NEC projector,both are PG-6`s.

Yuval.
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post #588 of 588 Old 03-09-2004, 11:38 PM
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It's not something you can fix with RGB SHIFT plus some ZONE 1 is it?

Move ZONE 1 up and RGB SHIFT down to compensate, thus moving the raster + AKB upwards on the screen out of the way?

I'm sorry if these terms don't apply, I'm only familar with a 1251.

Maybe this is too simplistic...

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