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CRT Projectors > Geforce FX5700. Is it time for Radeon to leave your machine? Yes it is.
THECLOSER's Avatar THECLOSER 09:53 PM 03-06-2004
Steve,
the 980 pro that Mike P. will be testing is a MP-1 moded card. I am also waiting to here the results because i have seen the set up he is going to be comparing and its awsome.
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mp20748's Avatar mp20748 04:57 PM 03-07-2004
My HTPC is still being built, so it was not ready for the scheduled testing.

I hope to have this done and completed before the end of next week.

Again, my HTPC will have a 5700 Ultra/MP-1, and the HTPC at the testing site has an ATI 9800Pro/MP-1 - The display is a well tweaked G90.

The testing will be performed by AVIA Pro, assisted by myself and Deniz.
ChrisWiggles's Avatar ChrisWiggles 06:40 PM 03-07-2004
Thanks Mike, and stay well, I think we're all very interested in the results. All my support!
mbrandt's Avatar mbrandt 06:00 PM 03-09-2004
Just wanted to bump this thread up. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's interested in finding out how the 5700 Ultra/MP-1 fares against the 9800Pro/MP-1... Thanks for all your work on this.

- Mark
mikecazzx's Avatar mikecazzx 07:46 PM 03-10-2004
Quote:
Originally posted by Nich
I don't even have Monster's inc....:(

I haven't seen any errors at all. Could you point out some other disks?

I will try later none the less. We will watch a couple of flicks the next
couple of days. But I doubt that I'll find anything at all.

I'm using a Marquee 8500 Ultra.

Nich
Does the 5700 card work with Theatertek?
If so, what needs to be changed?
What card is Mike going to be testing? What exact brand?
I have Radeon 7200 64 DDR with TT now and no stuttering issues.

Should I go Radeon 9600 or this 5700 Nvidia?

Power DVD and Win DVD are not an option - they look horrible compared to Theatertek.
stylinlp's Avatar stylinlp 08:07 PM 03-10-2004
I am asking the same question as Mike. I have a Radeon 9200se and want a better picture by buying another videocard unmodified for now.

There was another thead showing how better the Radeon 9500 and better looked better than earlier models. So ive decided to upgrade.
PJ Adams's Avatar PJ Adams 10:39 AM 03-11-2004
Same unmodified video card question from me as well...

Radeon non-pro fan-less 9600 or NVidia FX 5700 Non-Ultra?
mbrandt's Avatar mbrandt 09:26 PM 03-11-2004
From what I understand, Mike may only be testing out the modded cards this weekend. I think it was TheaterTek that actually sent Mike the 5700. I may have read that on another board. Sorry, I can't recall or I'd link it.

Mike - I know you're a busy guy. You do so much to bring this hobby (more like a passion, actually) to a higher level. Thanks for all your hard work. We're all indebted to you. Let us know how well your new toys play when you're done with them this weekend. Oh, and please correct me if anything I wrote above is incorrect.

- Mark
mp20748's Avatar mp20748 01:50 AM 03-12-2004
Mark,
Yes, and I'm testing a card for someone at Nvidia as well.

We're hoping to do this this weekend, or very, very soon after that.

Sorry it's taking me so long. I'm also very anxious to see what this card is all about.
Nich's Avatar Nich 04:09 AM 03-12-2004
I'll be looking forward to hearing what you think.


Nicholas
mp20748's Avatar mp20748 05:16 AM 03-12-2004
OK, I just found out that the HTPC is ready. And that it'll have some Hi-def media on the hard drive.

"Fifth Element, Lord of the Rings, Gladiator, Jurassic Park III, The Transporter, The Lion King, The Fast and the Furious, and some other clips. Some are in Windows Media HD and some are the actual HD transport streams. The nice thing is that the ForceWare Multimedia Player can actually play all of these, so you don't need a seperate application for different media types."

It's Showtime!
mikecazzx's Avatar mikecazzx 05:39 AM 03-12-2004
Quote:
Originally posted by mp20748
OK, I just found out that the HTPC is ready. And that it'll have some Hi-def media on the hard drive.

"Fifth Element, Lord of the Rings, Gladiator, Jurassic Park III, The Transporter, The Lion King, The Fast and the Furious, and some other clips. Some are in Windows Media HD and some are the actual HD transport streams. The nice thing is that the ForceWare Multimedia Player can actually play all of these, so you don't need a seperate application for different media types."

It's Showtime!
Nice, the sooner the better.

So if I buy a Radeon 9600 XT or PRO today and them have to buy a 5700 next week and take the Radeon back...how much CRT setup needs to be redone? Everything? Astig, focus, convergence...or just convergence?
genmax's Avatar genmax 06:25 AM 03-12-2004
Mike, assuming you did your astig at the highest frequency you will use, it shouldn't matter.

Just write down your powerstrip settings in case all is lost during the driver switch.
mp20748's Avatar mp20748 12:19 PM 03-14-2004
It showed up today (thanks Doug), and it's ready!

Well, almost. I had to install the 5700 Ultra with the MP-1. Once that was done we spent about 30 minutes looking at hi-def movie clips, and Avia Pro.

I plan to spend more time on it tomorrow (Monday).

We also looked at a couple dozen Avia Pro test patterns on the scope. From what I saw so far, the DAC in the 5700 is very impressive. The picture was so punchy that I had to check several times to make sure we were not going above 700mv. The MP-1 was in the unity mode (non boost).

I'll pick up on this next week, and we'll finish up the testing on the G90. I don't want to say much for now, but will report back later with more on this really nice card.

So far I'm impressed, very impressed, but I must maintain my posture, because the real testing has not yet started.
stylinlp's Avatar stylinlp 12:44 PM 03-14-2004
Mike could I ask a question reated to your experience and subject? Good :)
I noticed you mentioned Unity mode (non boost). WIth my Extron 120p I have 3 settings. Unity, 50% and 100% Peak level adjustment. I noticed at 100% it was ALOT sharpre picture and at 50% it was just a little sharper than Unity. But I started looking the images over and I think the 100% might be too harsh and artificial looking, non film like. Maybe. At 50% i get a little sharper picture but don't loose the filmlike look. Have a view point on this? Radeon9200se with 15' Canaire 5bnc to 5bnc cable.

2nd question: ABout the new 5700 Ultra. Which brand and model are you testing? Do these benifits there when used with Theater Tek and Ffdshow?

Thanks :)
mikecazzx's Avatar mikecazzx 12:46 PM 03-14-2004
Quote:
Originally posted by mp20748
It showed up today (thanks Doug), and it's ready!
So far I'm impressed, very impressed, but I must maintain my posture, because the real testing has not yet started.
Is the MP1 mod still available for the Radeon 9800's?
Can it be installed by the end user?
j lyon2564's Avatar j lyon2564 06:49 PM 03-14-2004
Mike ,
I have a 9000 radeon with the mp1 mod.I have been waiting for the video cards to be worth a noticable upgrade.I had an older gforce card with the filters removed and it did the job for quite some time.If your testing shows it is time and worth an upgrade what will it cost to move the mp 1 from my 9000 to the 5700 ultra?will you offer the mod to the 5900 ultras also.

john lyon
dokworm's Avatar dokworm 11:35 PM 03-14-2004
I just hope the boards we can buy are end up as good as the reference boards that Mike is testing...
Don't forget to test 50Hz mode too Mike if ya get a chance, a lot of us PAL users live by it :), and there were some reports here of trouble with the 5700 @ 50Hz.
Nima's Avatar Nima 01:30 AM 03-15-2004
And 47,952 Hz (2 times 23,976 fps). I use that.

@dokworm:
Why should there be problems ?
dokworm's Avatar dokworm 12:22 AM 03-16-2004
I don't know why, but there are a few reports here of the 5700 having serious problems with DVD playback @ 50Hz
stylinlp's Avatar stylinlp 06:31 AM 03-16-2004
Jay over at TheaterTek forum reported thjs post

There is a new NVIDIA driver 56.64:

Release Highlights:

-Adds support for GeForce 5700 and GeForce 5700 Ultra
-Microsoft® DirectX® 9 and OpenGL® 1.5 support
-Supports application profiles for custom image quality and performance modes for all of your applications and games.
-NVIDIA nView 3.5 Multi-display technology
-Advanced Microsoft® Internet Explorer® popup blocker
-Industries only Display Gridlines technology
-Improved HDTV Y Pr Pb component out support for 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i formats**
-For a complete list of compatibility fixes please consult the v56.64 Release Notes below

http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_2k_56.64
mp20748's Avatar mp20748 01:19 PM 03-16-2004
Quote:
Originally posted by stylinlp
Mike could I ask a question reated to your experience and subject? Good :)
I noticed you mentioned Unity mode (non boost). WIth my Extron 120p I have 3 settings. Unity, 50% and 100% Peak level adjustment. I noticed at 100% it was ALOT sharpre picture and at 50% it was just a little sharper than Unity. But I started looking the images over and I think the 100% might be too harsh and artificial looking, non film like. Maybe. At 50% i get a little sharper picture but don't loose the filmlike look. Have a view point on this? Radeon9200se with 15' Canaire 5bnc to 5bnc cable.

2nd question: ABout the new 5700 Ultra. Which brand and model are you testing? Do these benifits there when used with Theater Tek and Ffdshow?

Thanks :)
Unity gain usually means that the circuit in question does not effect the gain level of the signal. On the MP-1 there's a jumper that will allow for a subtle boost of the output level. When the jumper is removed, the mod is in the non boost mode (700mv into the mod - 700mv on the output).

The boost switch (cable compensation) on the Extron was used for very long cable lengths (far beyond what we use in HT). With very long runs of cable, the signal would get attenuated, also causing high frequency roll-off. Or better put, loss of sharpness and detail. The "peaking" control on the Extron was used to increase or boost the high frequency that was lost from cable attenuation. This boost would restore sharpness and detail to the image.

This was fine for computer graphic display, but for hi-end video, it's nothing but a distortion control. And there's absolutely no way to use one of these controls (in video) without including some level of distortion ("harsh").

In hi-end HT, the goal is to use very good grade cables. And because of the short cable distances that we use in HT, there's no need to use a noise inducing circuit as such, if the cables are of good quality. The key is good cables supported by good bandwidth = equals good image

The brand 5700 Ultra is an ASYLUM. I also have another brand here, that only has Nvidia on it.

John,
the 5700 is very complicated to mod. It's not as easy as the ATI's. Much more has to be done. For now I'm thinking it might be best to you the MP-1.3 (external to the card) with the 5700. This might change once I spend more time on this...

Speaking of time. It may be another couple of days before I'll be able to get back on this. I've been very busy with so many legal/medical/relocating issues, that I'll have to spend the next couple of days getting on top of my backlog. I have so much work, that I had to stop taking in more (until first week in April).

We hope to pick back up on this by this weekend. I'm really looking forward to it.

Keep in mind, that I'm only testing the video performance of the DAC. Vern Dias will pick up with other issues, such as refresh rates, etc.
mbrandt's Avatar mbrandt 07:06 PM 03-16-2004
Thanks again Mike. Best of luck...

- Mark
Samhain_777's Avatar Samhain_777 10:32 PM 03-17-2004
Quote:
Originally posted by mp20748
Unity gain usually means that the circuit in question does not effect the gain level of the signal. On the MP-1 there's a jumper that will allow for a subtle boost of the output level. When the jumper is removed, the mod is in the non boost mode (700mv into the mod - 700mv on the output).

The boost switch (cable compensation) on the Extron was used for very long cable lengths (far beyond what we use in HT). With very long runs of cable, the signal would get attenuated, also causing high frequency roll-off. Or better put, loss of sharpness and detail. The "peaking" control on the Extron was used to increase or boost the high frequency that was lost from cable attenuation. This boost would restore sharpness and detail to the image.

This was fine for computer graphic display, but for hi-end video, it's nothing but a distortion control. And there's absolutely no way to use one of these controls (in video) without including some level of distortion ("harsh").

In hi-end HT, the goal is to use very good grade cables. And because of the short cable distances that we use in HT, there's no need to use a noise inducing circuit as such, if the cables are of good quality. The key is good cables supported by good bandwidth = equals good image

The brand 5700 Ultra is an ASYLUM. I also have another brand here, that only has Nvidia on it.

John,
the 5700 is very complicated to mod. It's not as easy as the ATI's. Much more has to be done. For now I'm thinking it might be best to you the MP-1.3 (external to the card) with the 5700. This might change once I spend more time on this...

Speaking of time. It may be another couple of days before I'll be able to get back on this. I've been very busy with so many legal/medical/relocating issues, that I'll have to spend the next couple of days getting on top of my backlog. I have so much work, that I had to stop taking in more (until first week in April).

We hope to pick back up on this by this weekend. I'm really looking forward to it.

Keep in mind, that I'm only testing the video performance of the DAC. Vern Dias will pick up with other issues, such as refresh rates, etc.
Hi,

I am planning my first HTPC to hook up to my cieling mounted XVZ9000 1280x720 DLP projector. I have a few Q's I am hoping someone in the know can answer for me first through:

I understand the MP-1 mod boosts signal strength for long runs (though from the above post I understand this is at the cost of image quality?).

I plan to run a 10m VGA cable through the cieling to the projector, and am wandering if this will require an MP-1 mod to maintian signal strength.

I am not the sort ot skimp badly on cables, though by the same token, don;t buy monster cables either as I feel the price performance of that escelon to be poor....

Obviously if I can get away with a $100 AUD card with no MP-1 and maintain high image quality, that's what I want to be doing versus hundreds more for an MP-1 modeed card (can I buy this direct from the states btw??)

So yeah, long run is how long exactly? and when do I need to be thinking about an MP-1 - in fact, perhaps the MP-1 mod is more suited to CRT display devices?

Thanks for your help all.
WanMan's Avatar WanMan 05:02 AM 03-18-2004
I think the MP-1 has the ability to boost signal (line-level voltage) if jumpered to do so.
JBJR's Avatar JBJR 06:25 AM 03-18-2004
The MP-1 mod is a RGBHV output mod only. Mike does not like VGA connectors.

John
WanMan's Avatar WanMan 07:00 AM 03-18-2004
John, isn't VGA RGBHV on a PC? :) I think you are confusing physical interfaces with video signaling. The MP-1 uses five (5) BNC connectors and not a DB-15, and the video signal is RGBHV all the way.
pcgeek's Avatar pcgeek 08:53 AM 03-18-2004
Quote:
Originally posted by Samhain_777
Hi,

I am planning my first HTPC to hook up to my cieling mounted XVZ9000 1280x720 DLP projector. I have a few Q's I am hoping someone in the know can answer for me first through:

I understand the MP-1 mod boosts signal strength for long runs (though from the above post I understand this is at the cost of image quality?).

I plan to run a 10m VGA cable through the cieling to the projector, and am wandering if this will require an MP-1 mod to maintian signal strength.

I am not the sort ot skimp badly on cables, though by the same token, don;t buy monster cables either as I feel the price performance of that escelon to be poor....

Obviously if I can get away with a $100 AUD card with no MP-1 and maintain high image quality, that's what I want to be doing versus hundreds more for an MP-1 modeed card (can I buy this direct from the states btw??)

So yeah, long run is how long exactly? and when do I need to be thinking about an MP-1 - in fact, perhaps the MP-1 mod is more suited to CRT display devices?

Thanks for your help all.
This is probably the wrong place to ask about cabling for a DLP projector ;-) But to be a little more useful, why would you run RGBHV to a DLP projector? If you've got a HTPC, you'll be a LOT better off going DVI at the native resolution (in which case the MP-1 mod will do nothing for you). I'm not sure about cable quality for DVI but I assume it still matters to some degree.
mikecazzx's Avatar mikecazzx 09:08 AM 03-18-2004
Quote:
Originally posted by pcgeek
This is probably the wrong place to ask about cabling for a DLP projector ;-) But to be a little more useful, why would you run RGBHV to a DLP projector? If you've got a HTPC, you'll be a LOT better off going DVI at the native resolution (in which case the MP-1 mod will do nothing for you). I'm not sure about cable quality for DVI but I assume it still matters to some degree.
Here is what I have gathered.

I think the MP1 was for RGBHV.

Making VGA to RGBHV into RGBHV to RGBHV and providing a better power source or true 75 ohms for improved color, and less noise.

Also, it would improve cable runs over 20'-30' long.

Some claim its a godsend, others claim its a minor tweak.
ChrisWiggles's Avatar ChrisWiggles 10:56 AM 03-18-2004
John is correct: the MP1 uses BNC RGBHV connectors, instead of a VGA plug, for higher quality. The signal, as you note, is still the same type, but the connection type is arguably superior, and there is no need for a VGA-RGBHV(BNC) breakout cable.
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