Momitsu I know, wrong forum NOT. - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 460 Old 05-09-2004, 04:54 AM
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Hi Mike,

> hand, the individual that either spec'd or designed the power supply,
> would surely loose his/her job if the random drug tester ever picks
> their number.

ROFL!

>The 5 volt rails are fine, but the +/- 12 volt supply is very unstable.

Yes, those are the same findings I had on my Momi. You may
want to try the cap mod (i.e. replace the 47µF with a 100µF unit
in the switcher PSU). All of the other mods (with maybe the
exception of the loader mod for some) seem to be voodoo mods,
which won't really help.

>One thing I'm sure of, and that is that whoever designed that
> processor board, had no association with whoever recommended
> that power supply for the unit.

No, that's true. The board is one of two Sigma Design
Development Kits which any DVD player manufacturer can
buy. All the DVD player manufacturers do is add the PSU,
the ROM, the Keypad, the LCD display and the chassis.
Whether you are looking into a Momitsu or a Yamakawa or
other clone the basic "intellegence" is the same. Even the
different firmwares only contains minor changes (like menus
or background pictures, etc)

> The good news is, that processor board is so well designed,

That is good news, but

> it's not worth making any changes to the power supply for
> tighter voltages.

The cap mod isn't going to cost more than 1-2 bucks and it helps
solve other problems, too. If the DVD-ROM needs to re-read a
certain section on the disk (because of a dirty disk e.g.) this can
lead to multiple hickups in the movie as the 12V line dips down
too far (increased load on the PSU due to the drive's multiple
reads) meaning the ROM can't read and process the information
correctly.

> I'm curious as to the level of the analog signal coming off the
> DAC, I want to confirm that it is actually 700mv.

Yes, please post some scope pictures. I wish I had more time
to dabble with the Momitsu. What I have noticed is that the
picture becomes a bit soft on 720p and 1080i (RGBHV out). It
might be interesting to see what happens to the signal (and
level) when we switch from 480p to 720p or 1080i.

> I know that there's both a brightness and contrast control
> on the Momitsu. The problem with both are that they function
> in very large incraments,

Momitsu has been asked by several AVS members to make
the gradient smaller in the next firmware. So far there has
been no response (that I know of). What I don't know if this
is even possible since it might well be a hardware limitation
(resolution of the chip's adjustment possibilities) Still it would
be interesting to see scope pictures of the changes from one
bar to the next (and if it is linear).

I WISH there was more info on the Sigma 8500 out there. The
pdf on SigmaDesign's website is useless to say the least.

Greets,
Reinhard

Gimme a hot soldering iron. I got work to do ;o}
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post #182 of 460 Old 05-09-2004, 05:37 AM
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> Momitsu has been asked by several AVS members to make
> the gradient smaller in the next firmware

Is there a forum where suggestions can be made?

One of the suggestions that I would make is to have pictures (.jpeg) rendered to the final frame-buffer, not the 480i buffer and then upscaled.

I have test-patterns and other things burned to a cd, and while I can load my 1080p alignment grid... because of the low resolution rendering, it's useless!

Josh

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post #183 of 460 Old 05-09-2004, 06:50 AM
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Hi Josh,

>Is there a forum where suggestions can be made?

Check the DVD player section of AVS. There is a thread
called suggestions for future firmwares (or similar title)
Sorry, I don't have the direct link. I believe one of the
Momi guys (Fred) was reading that section. You can
also contact them at:

Sales: sales@momitsu.com
Tech Support: support@momitsu.com

The new website is: http://w*w*w.momitsu.com/

P.S: I hope it's okay that I posted these links. If not
let me know and I'll remove them.

Greets,
Reinhard

Gimme a hot soldering iron. I got work to do ;o}
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post #184 of 460 Old 05-09-2004, 10:55 AM
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Ok, I've changed the cap. I've even installed a MP-1.

With the contrast at the default setting, the Momitsu puts out the correct signal level on RGB out. The brightness setting at default is questionable.

The unit is performing extremely well, with only the power supply being my only issue. It's not just the problem with the fluctuations on the +/- 12 line, but it's the problems that are created because of these fluctuations.

Using AVIA Pro, I'm able to notice slight flashing as the power fluctuates. And that's not all. The power supply seems to almost transmit an interferance. Anyway, I'll take a look at the power supply at a later date to see if it can be cleaned up. But from my initial evaluation, it should not be used with a video circuit.

I'll come back to this later, but it's very important that a switching power supply be as noiseless as possible for best resolution performance.

This DVD player still amazes me, and for the buck, it's a super deal. I only wish that there was a power supply upgrade option.

Ok, no comment on the performance with the MP-1, I'm leaving out on my way to Clarence's. We'll get Clarences opinion on the Momitsu/MP-1 later today.

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post #185 of 460 Old 05-09-2004, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Mike,
I noticed the brightness problem also. If you change resolutions you will see large changes in brightness from one resolution to another. I'm not sure if this is part of the latest firmware bug. 720P seems to be the one with the lowest default brightness setting. Just so we are on a level playing field, which version of firmware are you running? Where did you decide to connect the MP-1 in your player? Thanks,

Chip

Current owner of the last/best AmPro on the planet. The mighty 4600HD, and it's still running...better than Barco's, especially southern ones.
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post #186 of 460 Old 05-09-2004, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by mp20748
Ok, I've changed the cap. I've even installed a MP-1.
...
The unit is performing extremely well, with only the power supply being my only issue.
...
This DVD player still amazes me, and for the buck, it's a super deal. I only wish that there was a power supply upgrade option.
...
Ok, no comment on the performance with the MP-1, I'm leaving out on my way to Clarence's. We'll get Clarences opinion on the Momitsu/MP-1 later today.
WOW!

I just got treated to a quadruple whammy of incredible eye candy on my own screen.

First of all, Mike is the nicest guy. He's trying to relax on the weekends for his health, so I hope I didn't ask too many questions in my excitement and enthusiasm after seeing the results of his work...

He popped in one of his modded VIMs. Whoa. In addition to making the image look incredibly clean at my usual level, we could raise the contrast to any level without blooming - digital brights as bright as I wanted to crank the tubes. It was just beautiful.

I was almost embarrassed to show my projector and screen to Mike, but I enjoy my setup and I'm always open and seeking advice for improvement. Mike did some quick black level tweaks and showed me how to how to adjust stig on my Green. I've read through that several times before, but I learned more in 5 minutes watching Mike. For months I thought my problem was fine focus, but it was my vert G stig.

We watched OTA HD through his VIM. Nice! And he kept teasing me by watching and saying... oh, the neck board would help you there, too.

But enough general rambling; let's get back on topic...

I saw Bill's unmodded Momitsu at my Meet & Geek last week, and was impressed, but when Mike plugged his in... Wow. I loved having the 5BNC connectors too. That allowed me to use my heavier 5 Canare BNCs, instead of the DVI-I -> HD15 VGA -> 5BNC with my usual cheap, thin gauge BNCs. We watched DVE and 5th Element. I've never seen either look so good. I'm taking my LG LST-3510A back to CC (it only plays DVD-Rs through the HD15 RGB out) and I'm ordering the Momitsu. I'm keeping a close eye on these mods, too.

I'm not sure what Mike's large scale plans are with Momitsu mods. It sounds like he's got his capable hands full with his standard MP1 and MP5 transcoder.

It's hard for me to describe each incremental improvement everytime Mike improved each step in my video chain. But I will never be skeptical of anyone's flowery words and praise about MP mods.

I want it all. I'm going to have a hard time prioritizing which I want most. If you ever have an opportunity to see his work and the results, do it.

I can't thank Mike enough for showing me this stuff on my own system. I've become intimately familiar with how my setup looks and it was amazing to watch flaws fade away.

I also feel prouder than ever about my mega-screen after Mike let a few compliments slip. Maybe he was just being cautiously polite, but he seemed pleasantly suprised that my setup was more than just a foolish novelty.

(Mike's missing his own HT due to his temporary relocation)... If you ever want to show up with just a DVD and go a few hours with no tweaking, just let me know. You're always invited.

-Clarence
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post #187 of 460 Old 05-09-2004, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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So Clarence, what was the first thing you noticed about the modded Momitsu verses the un-modded one? Spill the beans. Mike said we would have to here it from you. I do have special interest in your answer.
We need feedback baby.

Chip

Current owner of the last/best AmPro on the planet. The mighty 4600HD, and it's still running...better than Barco's, especially southern ones.
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post #188 of 460 Old 05-09-2004, 04:44 PM
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If I were to pick up a Momitsu, who could I get to mod it with a MP-1 and what would the cost be? Didn't know Mike Parker lived so close to NOVA, I would have had him over for a beer on social conversation. BTW guys, I'm new on the board, in the process of setting up my HT in my basement and have a 500 hour XG110. I've been following all the threads here and I think the knowledge passed around on here has been most beneficial for me and I really appreciate the openess by which everyone shares their personal knowledge.


Kevin Kanizar
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post #189 of 460 Old 05-09-2004, 05:51 PM
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Chip-

The toughest part would be separating what was due to the MP improvements on the VIM and what was due to the MP improvements on the VIM.

Mike mentioned a longer loaner, so I'll hopefully A/B his Momitsu with my regular VIM and with MP's VIM. I might even drag Bill back over here with his unmodded Momitsu and have a second set of eyes on a A/B and C/D test.

I've got the same scenes that I look for in DVE and 5th Element: the deep 3D lanes of city space traffic, the textures on the wall with the dark shadows next to Leeloo's face, the dark tunnel scenes, the tuxedos.

I know that Bill's Momitsu by itself last week was impressive. The MP-VIM today with sources other than Momitsu was impressive. But MP/VIM + Momitsu+MP1 together: yep... wow.

Hi Kevin- Welcome to the forum. We'll have to add your HT to a pending list of VA/MD/DC Meet and Geek locations.

-Clarence
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post #190 of 460 Old 05-09-2004, 06:07 PM
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Mike, you said the power supply in the Momo is really bad. How hard would it be to rip out the junk PS and drop in a new one? Not having seen the inside of one yet I'm only guessing, but I gotta think it's pretty easy to swap out the PS.

Sounds like the MP mods to the Momo are well worth it. Haven't ordered my Momo yet but I'll have to keep that upgrade in mind...
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post #191 of 460 Old 05-09-2004, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by marcorsyscom
Chip-


Mike mentioned a longer loaner, so I'll hopefully A/B his Momitsu with my regular VIM and with MP's VIM. I might even drag Bill back over here with his unmodded Momitsu and have a second set of eyes on a A/B and C/D test.

-Clarence
Please let me know when the opportunity arises. I can come back over or you can come down here with the modded Momitsu and some of your chairs and we can kill several birds with one stone. :D
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post #192 of 460 Old 05-10-2004, 02:04 AM
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How long is your cable run Clarence?
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post #193 of 460 Old 05-10-2004, 05:20 AM
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The actual distance between my Marquee and the DVD players is <6' (2m). But my VGA->RGBHV cable is 20'.

Mike winced when he saw the thin guage wires at the BNC connectors.

So I dug out some decent Canare individual 6' BNC-BNC cables (5) that I have. Much better. Worked great going directly from MP's Momitsu with the BNC connectors, straight into the VIM.

-Clarence
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post #194 of 460 Old 05-10-2004, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Belcherwm
Please let me know when the opportunity arises. I can come back over or you can come down here with the modded Momitsu and some of your chairs and we can kill several birds with one stone. :D
We should do both... Make it an A/B (momitsu vs modded-momitsu) C/D (VIM vs MP/VIM) and E/F (Clarence's Marquee and your BD808) test.

Are you really interested in a row of seats? My wife's begging me to get rid of the rest of those seats before we move. I'm hoping to trade some to ChrisH too if he finds some clean HD8s for me, since my anti-reflective coatings were ruined by a previous owner.

-Clarence
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post #195 of 460 Old 05-10-2004, 05:47 AM
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Mike winced when he saw the thin guage wires at the BNC connectors.

Mike, I'm planning to run RG6/U to my projector -- only about an 8-10' run. I assume that's good? Then it's just the D15 -> 5BNC cable I have to worry about...
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post #196 of 460 Old 05-10-2004, 06:02 AM
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One other thing to add, I've tried 2 different Extrons to (109+ and 202xi) to pump up the signal voltage from .7 to 1v p-p. Yecch. I let Bill borrow the 202xi to see if he had better results. Certainly not the same effect as MP's VIM.

I asked Mike yesterday the highest he measured out of the Momitsu+MP1, IIRC it was 0.76v p-p.

-Clarence
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post #197 of 460 Old 05-10-2004, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by kkanizar
If I were to pick up a Momitsu, who could I get to mod it with a MP-1 and what would the cost be?
Kevin Kanizar
Woodbridge, VA.
That would be answered later this month, or by next month. I've been in discussions with someone who will be taking over attaching MP-1's to video cards, as well as offering complete HTPC's that will be shipped with calibrated signal levels - to be announced later!

A big thanks to clarence for the invitation and hospitality, everything about the visit was well worth the trip. Clarence is one of those type of HT geeks that you love to meet, a swell guy, and someone I'm aiming to put on my friends list. I've been in a many home theater, but that was the first time I've seen 4 screens in one room in a residence. This may sound strange, but if you get to meet Clarence and see his setup, you'll find that room to be a work of art, mainly because of Clarence's passion for the hobby.

Hopefully I'll get around to modding a set of boards (Marquee) to take back to Clarence this coming weekend. I also plan to return the Momitsu, and to leave both items with him.

The screen that the Marquee was firing on is probably the largest HT screen I've ever seen. It's the first very large HT screen that convinced me that you can get a very watchable image from a very large screen. Seriously, I was very impressed, so impressed that I'm hoping to show up one day with a bag of pop corn.

mike

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post #198 of 460 Old 05-11-2004, 07:35 PM
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Apparently the VIM boards are really the biz. I am very interested to see whether an MP Modded Momo is making much difference on a short cable run, or whether it is mainly the upgraded VIMs.
And also whether there is any difference A/Bing a modded and unmodded momp *without* the ultra clean picture as a result of the VIMs mod. i.e. wether any improvement is only visible once you clean the rest of the chain up.

DON'T feed the troll.
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post #199 of 460 Old 05-12-2004, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dokworm
Apparently the VIM boards are really the biz. I am very interested to see whether an MP Modded Momo is making much difference on a short cable run, or whether it is mainly the upgraded VIMs.
And also whether there is any difference A/Bing a modded and unmodded momp *without* the ultra clean picture as a result of the VIMs mod. i.e. wether any improvement is only visible once you clean the rest of the chain up.
Yes, the VIM addition itself is something to experience..;)!

Surely the thing to do would be to a compare an 880 to a 880 with the MP-1. I've noticed a difference with the MP-1 attached, but since I have no interest in modding DVD players, I won't really get into this.

It's a very easy thing to remove filters from the output of any DAC, and once that's done you'll notice an increase in sharpness. This is a quick and dirty way to improve (?) the performance of any DAC's analog signal. But let's also understand what happens when that is done. The quick part is the 5 minute filter removal. The dirty part is that once the filters are removed, you'll allowing the noise from the DAC to get into the image. That noise is a distortion, and that distortion can also look like sharpness. The purpose for the filtering is two fold. One being interference, while the other is to lower or eliminate the DAC's processing noise from being a part of the final analog signal. With the filters removed, you'll experience a tad sharper image, however that same image will also have an increase in digital noise. Well, the MP-1 has filtering to lower or eliminate that noise from the DAC. In fact, it might even have more filtering than what is found after the processing DAC, and that is where the word "Clean" comes from when someone comments on its performance.

The main goal of the MP-1 is first to "clean" up the signal from the DAC, and then provide a higher current signal to drive longer cable runs - so it does more than just drive a longer cable.

------

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post #200 of 460 Old 05-12-2004, 08:21 AM
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O.K, what is a VIM ?
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post #201 of 460 Old 05-12-2004, 08:38 AM
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Video Input Module. Its an Electrohome Marquee part, just like HDM is a Horizontal Deflection Module in a Marquee.
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post #202 of 460 Old 05-12-2004, 01:48 PM - Thread Starter
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And has absolutely nothing to do with a "U812";)

Chip

Current owner of the last/best AmPro on the planet. The mighty 4600HD, and it's still running...better than Barco's, especially southern ones.
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post #203 of 460 Old 05-12-2004, 04:44 PM
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Quote
_____________________-
Surely the thing to do would be to a compare an 880 to a 880 with the MP-1. I've noticed a difference with the MP-1 attached, but since I have no interest in modding DVD players, I won't really get into this.
______________________

I agree, I would love to see a 880 with and without MP1 on an unmodded projector with a short cable run to ascertain the difference. Would also love to see an 880 with BNC's connected vs a fully MP-1 modded unit, so that you were comparing apples to apples with the cable connections etc.

Shame you aren't interested in modding DVD players, I think the amazing v880 could be turned into something absolutely superb with a bitta work.

I retrofitted a compaq laptop power supply into mine last night, the 12v rail is now solid as a rock, but I will have to get another momo to compare it to, as my memory isn't trustworthy enough to know if it has given any picture improvement.

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post #204 of 460 Old 05-12-2004, 04:54 PM
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Ahh, thanks for letting me know my mailbox was full! I had no idea!
The CD/DVD retrieval unit thingie is from here
http://www.imation.com.au/products/d...akka/index.htm
It handles the discs beautifully, they are safe, sound and clean, and a click and you get your disc. Don't know how I lived without the thing after having it for a week!

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post #205 of 460 Old 05-13-2004, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dokworm
Quote
_____________________-
Surely the thing to do would be to a compare an 880 to a 880 with the MP-1. I've noticed a difference with the MP-1 attached, but since I have no interest in modding DVD players, I won't really get into this.
______________________

I agree, I would love to see a 880 with and without MP1 on an unmodded projector with a short cable run to ascertain the difference. Would also love to see an 880 with BNC's connected vs a fully MP-1 modded unit, so that you were comparing apples to apples with the cable connections etc.

Shame you aren't interested in modding DVD players, I think the amazing v880 could be turned into something absolutely superb with a bitta work.

The MP-1 makes the Momitsu look better at any cable length. Though the 880 may look good without filtering, filtering is much needed, as it's very important to strip some noise from the DAC analog out for a cleaner (not necessarily sharper) image. Also, the analog out on the Sigma's DAC does not have the punch (and the voltage level is correct) for long cable runs. Let me be clear on what I mean here when I say "long/longer" cable runs. <10' is short, anything above that is long.

----

Let's try to talk Chip into modding the DVD players. I'll supply the MP-1's.

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post #206 of 460 Old 05-13-2004, 07:59 AM
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Mike, the mods aren't rocket science, are they? How about providing kits and instructions for those of us who know which end of a soldering iron to hold?
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post #207 of 460 Old 05-13-2004, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by garyfritz
Mike, the mods aren't rocket science, are they? How about providing kits and instructions for those of us who know which end of a soldering iron to hold?
You learn that in one go?
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post #208 of 460 Old 05-13-2004, 08:41 AM
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I'm a fast learner. :)
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post #209 of 460 Old 05-13-2004, 11:07 AM
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From the wisdom-technologies web site:

Quote:
The MP-1 is not available as a DIY item.
I gather then that this thread is more of an academic discussion?
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post #210 of 460 Old 05-13-2004, 12:59 PM
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So Mike, how much degradation do you see in longer runs without the MP-1? My cable run is going to be about 15-18' of RG6/U. I didn't realize that would cause a problem.
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