Momitsu I know, wrong forum NOT. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 460 Old 04-07-2004, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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As any of the projector (giant screen) forums most benifit from this little beauty, I'm curious how you current Momitsu owners feel it stacks up to the more traditional signal path setups HTPC, DVD/scaler. It's obviously a simple solution from an installation standpoint. I think it is of particular interest to the CRT forum due in part to it's support of DVI-I. There have been a few post listing problems with earlier Momitsu's that have been resolved with upgraded firmware, loaders, cap mods and power supply wire twisting. They now seem to be quite reliable. Now comes the fun part. I asked Mike Parker about the possibility of hacking out the DVI-I connector and installing the MP-1 with RGBHV out via 5 BNC's along with whatever dark secrets he has in the back of his head. Alas he has too much on the pallet at this time to take on another project so I'm going to order a brand new V880 and MP-1 and hack it up myself. When it's done, it is my intension to box it up and send it to Mike for testing and suggestions for further improvment. Hopefully with the bulk of the work done, He'll have time to at least scope it out and see where else it can be improved. If time permits, I'll order the V880 and MP-1 on Thursday or Friday. Now, if I can only get ahold of Mike.

Chip

Current owner of the last/best AmPro on the planet. The mighty 4600HD, and it's still running...better than Barco's, especially southern ones.
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post #2 of 460 Old 04-07-2004, 08:51 PM
 
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I know Darin has one, but I cannot remember if he tried it on Guy's XG or Steve's G70.
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post #3 of 460 Old 04-07-2004, 09:49 PM
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Tricked out v880. Bet that would create a nice little side business.

I have tried a LD1 line doubler, HPTC, and V880 with my 1272.

The v880 is much better than the line doubler.

I bought the v880 to use when the wife needed "her'' computer (dual use), and have been so impressed with it that I have not bothered to run the cables to the pc. I found the v880 pq just as good as the pc. Of course with a better pj, an HTPC will probably outperform the v880.

Big D
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post #4 of 460 Old 04-07-2004, 10:13 PM
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The unit I tried out had a really bad ghosting problem on red (not my cables, tried 3 different ones, all of which work with my PC). It got much worse at 1280x720 at 75hz than the stock 480p.

Apart from that the picture is really soft. I think they SUCK compared to a well setup HTPC. I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

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post #5 of 460 Old 04-07-2004, 10:37 PM
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I love my Momitsu, its soooooo easy to use and it looks great at 1080i. I have ended up using 1080i for just about everything lately since all three HD sources are 1080i. The latest firmware update makes the Momitsu very nicely detailed. It is NOT as good as my P4 3Gig 800Mhz fsb 1Gig RAM, Radeon 9700 HTPC using Zoom Player with WinDVD video, Cyberlink Audio, and 5 ffdshow filters, BUT, its a single box with a single button to push to start a movie. I likely use it more than half the time now.
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post #6 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 12:55 AM
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Mark, I think you must have a bad unit, I never got any ghosting, and the image is not what I'd call *really soft*, it is a little softer than a tricked out HTPC, but not by much. (And I can see scanlines easily at 720P so my focus is OK)
The image was noticably softer before the firmware upgrade though - not sure what they did, but it was a big increase in PQ - Mike Parker noticed the same improvement with the firmware upgrade.

The fuss is that you get an image at least 90% as good as a well set up HTPC, and just as good or better than a lot of HTPCs, you get a choice of 480P/576P/720P/1080i all out of a cheap box, that you just turn on and go, that pretty much anyone can operate.
It performs better on the AVIA test discs than much more expensive units from the likes of Denon.
It's also one of the few units that puts out those resolutions via RGB, so no need for a transcoder purchase for us CRT folk.
If you do like to tweak, you can improve the image further with some mods.

HTPCs aren't for everyone, (I love mine, but my family hates it) and the attraction of a cheap, easy to use box that puts out a pretty high quality line doubled/tripled/quadrupled picture is pretty strong for a lot of people.

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post #7 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 01:18 AM
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Im using the liteon 2001 with component out at 1080i and i am never going back to htpc. For me the ease of use i get from using the dvd player greatly out weighs the difference in pq. I also have it built into my hushbox so the cable run is only 1ft compared to the 30+ft i had to use with my htpc. I do wish i had bought the mom. instead since you can select custom resolutions but im going to just wait on the next gen players with wm9 capabilities.

Fernando
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post #8 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 04:57 AM
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The thing I like the most is the gain, level, and saturation controls on the V880 which can make up for a less than perfect DVD.
Jim
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post #9 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 07:03 AM
 
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Too bad these little puppies were not on the $99 blue light special at K-Mart.
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post #10 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 09:05 AM
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I'm behind the learning curve here... can someone give a breif background of what this is?

Thanks,
Sean

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post #11 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 09:41 AM
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Basically, it's a DVD player that supports custom resolutions. I don't know too much about it, other than people have modded this thing to hell and back to fix issues and improve PQ. Here is a comprehensive list of mods that folks have done to it. I'm not sure if I think this thing is worth it or not. Great in terms of ease of use, but with all the mods people have done to it, I'm begining to wonder if maybe this thing wasn't rushed to market *shrug*
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post #12 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jeep lover 2
I'm behind the learning curve here... can someone give a brief background of what this is?

Thanks,
Sean
<$300 Set top box DVD player which scales DVDs to 480p/720p/1080i, with DVI-I output, includes analog pins which can use $8 DVI-I to VGA connector and VGA-RGBHV cable to connect to CRT projectors without needing HTPC...

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/video...ackground.html

https://www2.setssl.com/~hivizone/dv...main_frame.htm

http://www.extremephono.com/Momitsu%..._questions.htm
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post #13 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 09:48 AM
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A question for the people that have more invested on the AUDIO side of the HT:

How does the Momitsu sound via SPDIF? (As say, compared to a properly set up HTPC with something like the Audiophile 24/96 outputting SPDIF).

Kal
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post #14 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 11:25 AM
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I don't plan to build an HTPC; as far as I can tell the main benefit of an HTPC is tricked-out DVD playing and the ability to surf the web on your 10' screen. :) The Momo seems like a much better/simpler/quieter/cheaper/smaller option than an HTPC if you only use the HTPC for DVD playing, yes? And while it maybe doesn't quite match a hot HTPC for PQ, it sounds like the firmware upgrades are still coming and making it better all the time. Seems like a winner.

I considered getting a cheapie DVD player and feeding it into a decent scaler (which would also handle all other sources: VHS, cable, etc). You can get a good scaler for less than the Momo, and you'll need it anyway. But it sounds like the Momo does a damn good job by itself. So maybe I'll go with the Momo, and tolerate lousy PQ from VHS/cable until I get around to affording a decent scaler. Sensible?

Presumably you would feed the Momo straight to the CRT, yes? Do you have to use some kind of switcher or receiver with multiple vid inputs if you also want to feed the VHS/cable scaler into the CRT?

I'm still trying to figure out some basics, like what kind of WIRE goes from the Momo to the CRT. Coax? Some kind of VGA cable? What should I be running through my walls next week??

Gary
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post #15 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by garyfritz
I'm still trying to figure out some basics, like what kind of WIRE goes from the Momo to the CRT. Coax? Some kind of VGA cable? What should I be running through my walls next week??

Gary
I guess it really depends on what inputs your CRT handles. I'm guessing it's 5 BNC, so your best bet with the Momitsu would be a VGA breakout cable (run through the wall assuming that doesn't break housing code) and then an adapter for the Momitsu (DVI-I to VGA adapter, should be relatively inexpensive). If your projector accepts something else for inputs, then you'd just run that cable as the Momitsu should accept everything else, IIRC.
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post #16 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 11:41 AM
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Hm. Unfortunately I'll be doing the wiring before I've actually got a PJ. Guess I'll run a VGA cable to the mount point for now, and run any future wiring needs through the 2" PVC pipe I plan to run from the equipment cabinet to the PJ.
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post #17 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 05:26 PM
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I'm also using a Momitsu with a Ampro 3600 at 1080i. I moved from a HTPC with MP1 card and TT because I got tired of tweaking. The Momitsu picture is very close to my HTPC. I'm still working on the greyscale but the PQ blows me away when considering the price. I don't plan to go back to a HTPC or even upgrade to a scaler. I will wait for the serious tweaking of the Momitsu to start. After owning and understanding exactly what Mike Parker's MP1 can do for a HTPC, I can't wait to see what it can do for the Momitsu. Sound like we need a thread for Momitsu and CRT tweaking and recommendation. A lot of the current Momitsu post are geared around DLPs.

Andre
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post #18 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 06:14 PM
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Guys,

The Momitsu V880 is a scaling DVD player based on the Sigma Designs 8500 chip set. It has both component and DVI-I outputs. A simple DVI-I to VGA adapter or DVI-I to VGA (or RGB-HV) cable is all you need to make the connection to most CRT projectors. There are "secret" manufacturing menus that allow you to turn anything that would prevent you from scaling DVD's and that allow you to change, or turn off, the region code for the player. The result is that you can use a scaling DVI player with your analog projector.

The unit comes with pre-sets to scale to 480p, 720p and 1080i. You can also access another menu that allows you to program custom DVI settings. I have used this to output 1704 x 960p @ 48 fps to a Sony 1292. The image is amazing, even on a 119" diagonal 16:9 screen. The Sigma Designs chip does not seem to want to deliver the same at 60 or 72 fps so there are obviously limitations (as one should expect).

To add icing to the cake - the manufacturer has posted numerous firmware updates on their web site in the form of an ISO image that you simply burn to a CD and play on the player to flash the firmware. The updates have fixed several early bugs and actually ADDED features including a screen saver, on screen contrast, brightness and color (?) adjustments etc. Many of the releases of the firmware have included tweaks to the scaling that have made improvements to the image.

As is the case with a lot of new technology, there were a few bugs in the early firmware and, perhaps worst of all, the loader in some of the early units had "problems". As a result, people were coming up with a myriad of modifications including twisting power wires, adding heat sinks, shielded IDE cables, soldering capacitors to the power supply section and even replacing the loader with a computer loader. The usual well intentioned efforts. The bottom line was that the firmware updates fixed virtually all of the minor issues and when the problem was complicated with a faulty loader, the company was more than willing to replace it with a new one. Once you had a working loader in combination with the latest firmware almost all reports of problems ceased. In my case I can report that since I updated the firmware and had the company I purchased the unit from replace the loader - I have had zero problems. The remote and to some degree the build of the unit is what you would expect for a sub $200 unit, but if you use a programmable remote - you will not care.

It is very rare that you see a company (Manowa) provide the kind of support for a product like they have for the Momitsu V880. I think we should show them our support by considering them for our next DVD player purchase. ******** is selling the unit for less than $200 and extremephono is selling it in the US for a similar price when you consider shipping. I only wish AVS would consider selling the unit....

Ed
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post #19 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 06:27 PM
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It's no coincidence these are often compared to HTPC's. The Mom runs an "on chip" version of linux called UCLinux (Source code available here.. http://www.uclinux.org/), uses a standard DVD-Rom drive and a hardware DVD decoder made by the company that pioneered hardware dvd decoder cards for the HTPC (Fusion, dxr2, Hollywood+). It's essentially a linux HTPC.

I have a different Sigma 8500 player and I recently had help from someone who recompiled the firmware removeing some of the static graphics so the chance of burn in is reduced on my CRT.



-Brian
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post #20 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 06:35 PM
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I don't think that a "good" scaler can be purchased for less than the the $200. a Momitsu costs. I've personally tried TONS of scalers, and line doublers, and while there are lots of acceptable used line doublers available for under $200., the ONLY scaler I've used, personally, with an acceptable picture is the Lumagen, and they are a grand.
If it were me, I'd get a good RGB switcher which could switch your HD sources, the Momitsu, and the ouput from your line doubler, and you'd only have one RGBHV(or RGBS) cable going from the switcher to the projector. The formats are the same, between RGB, VGA, RGsB, RGBHV, RGBS, DVI-A, all use the same format, just the connector varies. Component, however, is a different animal and requires a transcoder.
It is always a possibility to make a custom cable to convert between one connector and another, people have been using a DVI-A to VGA gender changer with the Momitsu because its convenient, but a custom cable that is DVI-A on one end and 5 BNC on the other is another possibility, but more expensive.
I've been rambling, hope this gives you some idea of the flexibility of crt front projection.
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post #21 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 06:58 PM
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Now what would be cool is for someone (Chip?) to either put together a v880 "mod pkg" for crt that could be either bought as a package with detailed instructions for the do it your selfer.

Or perhaps even set up a custom "shop" where they buy say 20 players at a time (to save on shipping), and mod the players for crt users with either vga or MP 1 bnc connectors, load the latest firmware, and any other modifications that make sense.

It could even be shipped with a custom resolution as requested by the buyer.

Count me in as a likely customer.

Big D
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post #22 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Well Paul, You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. My second idea for the Momitsu was not only to add the MP-1 but to also make the Momitsu a
"hub" with a VGA pass that is active when the Momitsu is turned off and deactivated when turned on with both routed through the MP-1. This is something that I'll have to run buy Mike to get it noise free. This would allow you to connect the vga out from a HD receiver through the Momitsu and the MP-1 eliminating the need for an external switching devise. Nothing on paper yet, just in the thinking stage. I did order a new Momitsu to hack up for testing.

Chip

Current owner of the last/best AmPro on the planet. The mighty 4600HD, and it's still running...better than Barco's, especially southern ones.
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post #23 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 08:08 PM
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This sounds like one impressive player. Now, the question is where can I buy it in Canada?

Vadim
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post #24 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by stefuel
Well Paul, You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. My second idea for the Momitsu was not only to add the MP-1 but to also make the Momitsu a
"hub" with a VGA pass that is active when the Momitsu is turned off and deactivated when turned on with both routed through the MP-1. This is something that I'll have to run buy Mike to get it noise free. This would allow you to connect the vga out from a HD receiver through the Momitsu and the MP-1 eliminating the need for an external switching devise. Nothing on paper yet, just in the thinking stage. I did order a new Momitsu to hack up for testing.

Chip
Chip,

I can't wait to see if you can make this happen.
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post #25 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 09:03 PM
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You could probably talk your local Xbox mod guy into becoming a momitsu mod guy. Anyone that knows which end of a soldering iron gets hot can do all of the mods, and the updates are only a download away. If I was in the US I would offer the service myself, but I doubt anyone wants to pay shipping to Oz and back.

As stated though, if you buy a unit with current firmware, the mods sure aren't *necessary* - they are needed about as much as a PC with a good Radeon card needs an MP-1 mod - totally not necessary, but probably worth doing if you feel the need.

DON'T feed the troll.
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post #26 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 09:13 PM
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Where is the best place to buy one of these and what's a GOOD price?

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post #27 of 460 Old 04-08-2004, 09:47 PM
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http://www.********.com - less than $200

http://www.extremephono.com/momitsu_dvd_v880.htm - less than $250

AVS - Please offer these players so we can buy them here!
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post #28 of 460 Old 04-09-2004, 05:57 AM
 
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Whatever happened to the Immersive product (Asymilator?) that was to come in two forms, one with a DVD-transport and one without?
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post #29 of 460 Old 04-09-2004, 01:10 PM
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edsuski, note that there are shipping costs from ******** and extremephono. ******** is $195 + $85 shipping = $280. extremephono is $247 + $19 shipping = $266.

What is an MP-1, anyway?
Gary
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post #30 of 460 Old 04-09-2004, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I ordered the V880 yesterday at 4:00PM EST. I received notification from DHL that the shipment was picked up and on the way before 5:00PM the same day. I actually think there was only about a 45 minute laps between my order and placement on the DHL delivery truck. Now thats quick.

Chip

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