I can't stand it any more - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 318 Old 07-11-2004, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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So for whatever reason, I keep creeping over to other forums for fun, like the >$20K area, and once in a while I poke my head into the two forums directly under this one.

ICAN'T STAND IT ANY MORE!

Over in the $20K forum they keep discussing the merits of mega cables, and tweaks consisting of obtuse and oblong proportions and materials that make no sense to me.

In the other forums below us they keep speaking of bulb costs and superb images out of $1200.00 boxes.

I have seen the light, it's too damn bright!

I'll stray no more.

Curt

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post #2 of 318 Old 07-11-2004, 07:57 AM
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Oh, come on now, don't those tantalizing posts of $28,000 projectors with $3,000 bulbs that almost have the color depth and contrast of an average CRT projector interest you at all? ;)


The weirdest thing, IMO, is the low buck digital FPTV area. Now, I've been into FPTV since the mid 80s, so I understand the allure of the big screen full well, even when the initial results are compromised in some areas. But I'd sooner buy and tweak up a midrange CRT RPTV before I could live with one of the inexpensive digitals. And since I got my current 9PG+ with low, low hours for about the same kind of money ($1600), I feel like I'm blessed in comparison, given the picture I'm getting.

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post #3 of 318 Old 07-11-2004, 07:59 AM
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I thought digitals were god's gift to man before I saw I fully setup CRT.

I used to always be on the under 3500 forum. All we talk about is when are bulbs died, how to get dust blobs out, and anomorphic lenes to try a squeze are PJ of every pixal it has.

And I still have to say an X1 image for 900 bucks is not bad at all sitting at 2.0x from the screen.

Chris
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post #4 of 318 Old 07-11-2004, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Yep, I've seen the same/. In fact I was in Seattle a coupld of weeks ago, and EMP had a new Sci Fi display that I went to go see.

They had a large moving mural projected by a digital projector, showing all sorts of sci fi stuff, and seriously, I didn't have to look at it more than 5 seconds to know it was a DLP projector, due to the rainbows that I saw.

I've seen lots of current <$2K digital projectors, and I wouldn't touch them.

But for the non D-I Y'er, I can see the appeal.

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post #5 of 318 Old 07-11-2004, 08:37 AM
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Jon,

I couldn't agree more. I learned long ago to take everything in the low buck digital forum with a grain of salt. They lost me when they start to say the lower end 800x600 projectors produce better pictures than high end CRT's. I currently have the Sanyo Z1 and I'm not impressed at all. Last week there was a thread that was titled something like "How to get rid of the gray blacks on a Z1" or something like that. I read the title to my wife and her response was "that's easy, just turn it off" :D
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post #6 of 318 Old 07-11-2004, 08:53 AM
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Curt

You just don't know what you're missing by not using $5000.00 a meter cables.

Try freezing your projector and see how much better it looks.
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post #7 of 318 Old 07-11-2004, 10:20 AM
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Curt,
I'm over there too since I want to know what is the latest poop.My CRT set up has a picture which just makes me have a stupid grin on my face when I sit down in front of it but there is much that is new and many things on the horizon which I want to know about. Your opening up like this will allow a cleansing of your soul.:D

Art

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post #8 of 318 Old 07-11-2004, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Curt Palme
So for whatever reason, I keep creeping over to other forums for fun, like the >$20K area, and once in a while I poke my head into the two forums directly under this one.

ICAN'T STAND IT ANY MORE!

Over in the $20K forum they keep discussing the merits of mega cables, and tweaks consisting of obtuse and oblong proportions and materials that make no sense to me.

In the other forums below us they keep speaking of bulb costs and superb images out of $1200.00 boxes.

I have seen the light, it's too damn bright!

I'll stray no more.

Curt
MEGA NONSENSE !;)

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post #9 of 318 Old 07-11-2004, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Right, but Art, your posts make sense..;)

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post #10 of 318 Old 07-11-2004, 11:52 AM
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I never go there but I have to admit that high end Audio electronics even cables in some cases just has some kinda pull to me.
I know a $2000. CD player will only sound marginally better than a $500. unit and the laws of dimminshing returns are long past but I just like it. it stems back to my teens and attending parties where the kids parents had some pretty expensive audio stuff. Hearing that equip (with fresh young ears) and compairing it to the stuff I had really showed me the diff between great equip and budget stuff. Ever since then I am drawn to the high end stuff .
Its too bad I don't have the budget to support it. It would be great to just buy whatever you want with cost no object and see what you end up with.
So I live with a system of compromises.
Ah to dream.
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post #11 of 318 Old 07-11-2004, 12:14 PM
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OK, I guess I can't keep visiting this forum unless I 'fess up.

I have more money in my audio cables than in my projector. quite a bit more.... there was a time when I felt that basic Belden and some good decent RCA's was all anyone in the world needs, but after a few years and a lot of listening, and various system upgrades (don't even start me about DACs- at least I've finally found a really good one for "only" $1K), I'm pretty happy with how things stand... but I can understand if most folks would find the notion of a 3meter set of balanced interconnects that the very friendly price direct from the manufacturer (an old friend) is ~$850, more than a little tough to swallow.

So, if you're completely happy with something less, just count your blessings.

Me, after looking at a lot of the $5K to $12K digital projectors, I'm staggered with how happy I am now with my 9PG+.

Just should have done it years ago.

And now, I'm a little P-O'd, becuase I realize that if I want to keep watching something like this for quite a few more years, I'd better look for it's replacement/backup pretty soon, as they really don't make them like they used to any more...

hmmmmm, I wonder about that PG9 extra I saw a littel while ago....

Better get on Curt's mailing list, I guess. ;)

~Jon

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post #12 of 318 Old 07-11-2004, 12:18 PM
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Well, I'm a stubborn old fart who enjoys hanging out with my jurassic equipment loving friends.

Chip

Current owner of the last/best AmPro on the planet. The mighty 4600HD, and it's still running...better than Barco's, especially southern ones.
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post #13 of 318 Old 07-11-2004, 03:23 PM
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I'm going to share the content of a phone call I received about three months ago from the rep from one of the big players in front projection. He told me they had some new three chip DLPs coming out and I said that I was set for now with my projection system. When I told him that I was stacking G90s he said "oh, still hanging on to the old school"? I said "well, if old school means liquid smooth 1080p with something like 9000:1 contrast ratio and blacks so black that when it fades you can't see your hand right in front of your face, yes I am, will your 3 chips give me any or those "? He said ....................... "uh no". I said I think you are a great guy and please keep in touch.:D

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post #14 of 318 Old 07-11-2004, 04:21 PM
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Well, when that rep finally talks you into digital, you can sell me your "old school" G90's :D

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Ghandi
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post #15 of 318 Old 07-11-2004, 04:25 PM
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On a completely unrelated note, Curt did you get my PMs? I'm still in need of a new power supply for my PG 9+.
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post #16 of 318 Old 07-12-2004, 01:52 AM
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Fenris, did you take that nick from the chaos-wolf?

Just asking:)

Nicholas

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post #17 of 318 Old 07-12-2004, 07:12 AM
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I bought a set of 400 "Monster cables", component interconnects and a tos optical cable.

Monster isn't even a high end cable maker, but they still cost me 400 bucks for 6 feet.

I can't see the difference between them and my $2.99 Radio Shack, plastic ends, cables.


Just like I don't understand the record nuts that say that CD's don't sound as good as records do.

I must not have the genetic ability to tell the difference between a signal at 80 Mhz and 82 Mhz or the difference between a digital sign wave and an analog wave, in my head.

I hate old construction.
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post #18 of 318 Old 07-12-2004, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by techman707
Well, when that rep finally talks you into digital, you can sell me your "old school" G90's :D
Hey, I was going to ask that! :)
Can we go 'halfsies' and take one each??

Kal
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post #19 of 318 Old 07-12-2004, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by kal
Hey, I was going to ask that! :)
Can we go 'halfsies' and take one each??

Kal
SURE! I'm not greedy and you CERTAINLY don't need a dual stack. The only problem is.....from what I've seen of the latest digitals, I hope I'm still alive when Art FINALLY decides he's seen something better.:D

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post #20 of 318 Old 07-12-2004, 03:54 PM
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We all venture over there. I do, but I do so because I find little if anything bad to say over here. Thus, in order for me to complain a little (:D) I go over there and mock them for fun. Besides, seeing some smuck paying top dollar is always amusing.

When will D* stop pushing HD-Lite while charging us for full HD? Digital input on a CRT is a reality, not a possibility.
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post #21 of 318 Old 07-12-2004, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nich
Fenris, did you take that nick from the chaos-wolf?

Just asking:)

Nicholas
Yup, I don't go looking for trouble, it always seems to know exactly where I am...
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post #22 of 318 Old 07-12-2004, 05:00 PM
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OK, everyone pat themselves on the back because they have a CRT projector...

I really don't know why threads like these habitually pop up on the CRT boards. It's not like anyone is making you trade your projectors in for a digital. Must be a slow news day.

GScott, I've never seen anyone on the digital boards say a low end 800x600 digital is even anywhere near as good as a top end CRT. Possibly some uninformed dolt may have said that, but instances like that are few and far between.

Of course, if I end up getting a CRT projector I'll be right there with you guys! ;)

There's no place I can be, since I found Serenity. You can't take the sky from me.
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post #23 of 318 Old 07-13-2004, 05:21 AM
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Actually, digital forum is full of bigots. They got rid of all their po-folks into the digital garbage-bin area.

When will D* stop pushing HD-Lite while charging us for full HD? Digital input on a CRT is a reality, not a possibility.
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post #24 of 318 Old 07-13-2004, 06:10 AM
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Semi,

Sorry but that has not been my experience. I think it was just last week that someone on that particular digital forum claimed his H30 (800x600) was better than any CRT based RPTV and he "hoped" everyone who bought one of those crappy RPTV's felt ripped off when they saw his setup. I have used the X1 and now the Z1 and they are not even close. When I read review of these projectors that claim how great they are I can only wonder what the frame of reference is.
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post #25 of 318 Old 07-13-2004, 02:05 PM
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Oh come on. In your first post you claimed:
Quote:
They lost me when they start to say the lower end 800x600 projectors produce better pictures than high end CRT's.
But they didn't say ANYTHING like that at all, did they? In fact, they weren't even commenting on CRT FP at all, were they? And the "they" was actually a "he" wasn't it?

In fact, perhaps you're now worried someone will call you on your statement because now you're getting a little closer to the truth when you say
Quote:
I think it was just last week that someone on that particular digital forum claimed his H30 (800x600) was better than any CRT based RPTV
But in your first post you said the claim was made about "high-end CRT's".

I went off on that guy for other reasons before the thread got closed but apart from his dumb post all he was really saying was that his FP setup was much better than RP setups. It wasn't even a digital versus CRT comparison. And most CRT RP setups DO suck. They usually have about as much to do with a good CRT PJ as a GM Chevy Cavalier has to do with a GM Cadillac.

Why are you so desperate to create this false impression that people in the digital forum are claiming their PJ's are better than CRT PJ's. When was the last time you EVER saw a thread like this one in the digital forum. I can't remember ONE, EVER, can you?!
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post #26 of 318 Old 07-13-2004, 02:24 PM
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Whenever I have people over to see my XG the first question is where do I get one of these? Most of these people are not technically knowledgeable and I usually recommend a bulb unit because they weigh 6 pounds and are easy to set up. I don't mind helping people with a CRT but they are not for everyone.
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post #27 of 318 Old 07-13-2004, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh, this thread is getting nasty, it was all in good fun guys, mellow out.

:)

It would be interesting to see however how many first time low end digital users bought on impulse without checking out all formats including CRT, and how many specifically didn't want CRT due to the image they saw on the 15K hour tubes in the Zenith at the local sports bar...:)

The other other statistic I'd like to know is what percentage of ANY digital projector is repaired at a reasonable cost when out of warranty, and what the average hour count is that a digital owner (and CRT for that matter) keeps their projector.

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post #28 of 318 Old 07-13-2004, 02:34 PM
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I would say MOST of them!

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post #29 of 318 Old 07-13-2004, 02:37 PM
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OK, here's what the guy REALLY said:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...26#post4015426
Quote:
And yes, this is my personal experience shopping at Tweeter, asking about front-projectors that I could afford (such as the Panasonic AE300 and NEC HT1000) and hearing their salesperson scoffing at "cheap business projectors" (many of which produce a better image than many rear-projection sets they sell) and sneering at the information one can find on the internet. Of course when I asked, he'd never actually *seen* any of the specific business projectors he was sneering at in general, nor did he seem to know that there were many HT projectors at half the price of his projector offerings, and IMO they produced a better picture as well.
Hmmm....not only wasn't he comparing them to FP CRT he only said "many of which produce a better image than many rear-projection sets they sell". In fact, he wasn't even specifically talking about CRT RP was he, just RP in general.

And then he said:
Quote:
It was a very annoying experience, and I certainly hope that the people who were sold these giant rear-projection TVs (or even worse, direct-view sets) feel ripped off when I show them my H30 and point out that they could have had a picture four times the size for half the price...
Still not comparing to CRT FP and simply saying he thinks he got a great picture 4 times as big for less money.

So at this point GScott, based on your interpretation of events versus what was really happened, is it fair to ask you if you were the one that advised Bill Clinton's to say "I did not have sexual relations with that woman".
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post #30 of 318 Old 07-13-2004, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Curt Palme
Oh, this thread is getting nasty, it was all in good fun guys, mellow out.

:)

It would be interesting to see however how many first time low end digital users bought on impulse without checking out all formats including CRT, and how many specifically didn't want CRT due to the image they saw on the 15K hour tubes in the Zenith at the local sports bar...:)
I bet most of them did a fair amount of research. Unfortunately for CRT sellers such as yourself, many people will not even consider a CRT given size, weight, learning curve etc... I will admit my initial impression of CRT projectors came from seeing them in bars, and this was a horrible way to really ascertain their quality. When I wanted to get a projector, I didn't consider CRT. When I started reading these forums, and subsequently got to see well setup CRT projectors I realized that they can do a great job.

Quote:
The other other statistic I'd like to know is what percentage of ANY digital projector is repaired at a reasonable cost when out of warranty, and what the average hour count is that a digital owner (and CRT for that matter) keeps their projector.

Curt
This always comes up, and usually has the same answer. Most people buying digitals only expect to use them as long as or less than their warranty. I have a 5 year warranty with mine, and doubt I will use it for much more than half that time. In a year or so I have used 330 hours of a 4000 hour bulb. Like anything it can fail prematurely, but I don't expect it to.

James

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