XG owners: please help compile a how-to guide! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 448 Old 10-22-2004, 08:42 PM
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I have an NEC XG 110 in Ft Collins - what was the question?
:)
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post #92 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
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lincolns!! DUDE!! Do you understand configuring these beasts? I'm in NE Ft. Collins and I've been struggling with my XG852 for a month. I would **LOVE** to have some local expert help! You have PM...

Clarence -- so I assume you picked this one up for $4.95 and a pack of smokes?? :D And natch it works right out of the box. I swear your CRT karma is blessed and mine is cursed...
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post #93 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Clarence -- so I assume you picked this one up for $4.95 and a pack of smokes?? And natch it works right out of the box. I swear your CRT karma is blessed and mine is cursed...
Nah. I paid more for this XG than I did for my 3 Marquees combined.

It was a gamble... it was in it's original box with styrofoam and protective wrapping over the remotes, so I was hoping it had never been installed. If it had 0 hours it would've been a killer deal, but with 3000 hours, it still turned out to be an OK price.

I paid twice what I normally would've. But I've wanted an XG and a G70 for a year. So I splurged.

Everything looks brand new (case, lenses, lens covers, inside boards, remotes, etc) except for the typical wear on the green.

But yes, I was glad that it worked out of the box. The previous facility had done a great job with the setup. I just reversed the scan, did an optical focus, mechanical toe-in, created a new memory, stored a quick setup, and I was up and running.
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post #94 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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OK Doug, I got a chance to do some more testing...

Reference G2's are perfect. Following the procedure on 10-24 (VIDEO signal, grayscale on the screen, switch in TEST position, all settings as specified on 10-24), the 3 G2 voltages are 2.5V +/- 0.01V.

Then I checked the HV protect 1/2 voltages. Unfortunately I can't put a 100IRE screen up with bright/contrast at 100%; it shuts down. With a 50IRE screen, the protect1 is .144, protect2 is .148. Not within 0.01V tolerance, but fairly close?

I'll go set the G2's later tonight, but does that tell you anything?

EDIT: OK, I ran through Guy's procedure. Everything was fine, except I couldn't get the dark areas to meet in the center (step 14e in Guy's procedure) for the blue. But the G2 eventually converged to 2.5V so I exited the blue loop. Red and green went very easily, but the blue took a lot of runs through the loop before the G2 settled at 2.5V.

I had a sudden "D'oh!!" moment while doing Guy's process. I pulled the lenses so I could view the ramps better, and I suddenly realized the raster & image were well outside the proper area!! The top corners (bottom of the CRT as it's hanging from the ceiling) were outside the visible area. Don't ask me how I missed this before. I thought aha!! Maybe that's the problem! So I reduced the image size with POSITION so it's well within the proper area. But it still shuts down when I try to display a test pattern.

There may be a clue there. I noticed that if I shifted the position of the image to the right (when looking at the tube faces, hanging from the ceiling, so I think that would be the left side of the screen?), I couldn't get it all the way to that side of the screen before the PJ *shut down*. Just moving the POSITION of the image, within the legal area, shut down the PJ! Also reducing BLANKING on that side below about 70 or so shuts it down.

What could cause the position to shut it down like that?
Gary
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post #95 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 07:52 PM
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Gary,

Was the raster this far off center on all of the tubes, or just one? You state that you moved the position of the image. Did you move the raster, or the image?

Pete
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post #96 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 08:28 PM
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When you went to Guys procedure what signal were you using? Did you have the phase set right for that?

Petes got a good question though but the tilt and curser phase needs to be checked. Careful with that, keep it off the edge.

After you check that look at where shift is and for a test, put H V position to 0 and back blanking out, from there check if moving the H position from left to right dims the image down, note where it does if so. Doug
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post #97 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 08:45 PM - Thread Starter
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All 3, if I remember right.

Umm, I used POSITION -> SHIFT. That appears to shift the image within the raster. I also used POSITION -> SIZE, which appears to grow/shrink the entire raster. (How do I center the raster on the tube face??)

See attached for the current state. It's hard to get a good picture of the tube face, but hopefully you can see where the image is inside the raster. There's a small band of raster on all sides of the image (dual gray ramps from Avia). Before I noticed it & fixed it tonight, the lower corners were outside the visible area.

Notice the little "flip" scan line at the top-left. Is that supposed to be there?

So if I start shifting the image within the raster, as I get close to the right edge of the raster, the image starts brightening significantly. (!?!?) If you get too close, it gets too bright, and it shuts down. Similar if you lower the right-side blanking below about 82 -- starts to get bright and will shut down if you lower it much more.
LL
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post #98 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Doug, I was using composite from Avia, fed into VIDEO.

Umm, don't know if I had the phase set right. Do you mean the procedure on p. 4-55, setting CONVERGENCE -> PHASE? No, I haven't tried that -- I can't. Displaying any kind of test pattern like that shuts it down. I can't even do a STATIC convergence because it shuts down as soon as I hit the STATIC button. Even when the raster is very small (IMAGE SIZE = -90/-90).

Interesting you mention the imaging dimming when you shift H position. Note above where I said the image brightens as you get close to the right side. I starts happening when the H position gets to about -4 or -5. It starts to dim a bit when it's very close to the left edge of the raster, -16 to -19 or so.

Gary
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post #99 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Clarence
Gary-

Stick with it, dude...

I picked up an XG135 yesterday. :rolleyes: :D

I did a quick 30 minute setup at lunch today and it's already pretty impressive.

I just pointed it at the wall, but misjudged the throw distance... I ended up with a 10' wide image (see attached). I'll redo it at about 8'. The blinds in this conference room don't completely close, so there's a lot of ambient light. I used flash in this picture too. You can see my cardboard box tripod at the bottom of the picture. The default black levels seem to already be set nicely.

3000 hours... Green tube shows a little wear (including nice capital letters at the top of the screen that says UNCLASSIFIED :D)



-Clarence
DUDE!! YOU GOT A XG?? SWEET!!

Look out Clarence... it's coming.... get ready.... You'll never ever turn back again :^)

Cliff
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post #100 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 09:09 PM
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Gary,
See service manual page 55 / 4-55 Adjusting PHASE (has pictures) This needs to be done right after the signal entry.

Can you store a low contrast or does it still shut down?

To see back raster lower contrast and raise brightness until you see it.

I dont like that image and it looks over driven if thats a ramp pattern. see if you can correct phase. Doug

Is that with H V position at 0?
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post #101 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 09:18 PM
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Gary,
You dont have a open video port in line do you? If so terminate it. For interlaced put position sync to narrow instead of wide. Think its in the source information menu page 3. check the termination under it and AFC normal. Doug
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post #102 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 09:40 PM - Thread Starter
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No, H position is -16, V is +28

Don't worry about the overdriven look of the image. That's not what it looks like on the tube face. It's just really hard to get a picture of the tube. My camera's scan rate seems to be similar to the CRT's scan rate and I have to use a long exposure to get a complete scan of the image. On the tube it looks much better.

That picture had the contrast at 0 and brightness at about 70, so you could see the raster.

Ooooh ooh ooh!! It was shutting down with any test pattern even with contrast at 0. But if I stored contrast AND bright at 0, NOW I CAN DISPLAY TEST PATTERNS!!

The PHASE pattern doesn't look like the picture on 4-55. See attached. It doesn't have the "bent" horizontal lines on left & right (the "sharp turns" mentioned in the manual). Notice also that the left side kind of "wraps under" the image. It's like it goes to the left side of the image then bends under and comes back a ways.

I don't understand the PHASE adjustment, especially since it doesn't have the "sharp turns" on the display, but I think it looks like it's supposed to. The settings are +21 / +73.
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post #103 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 09:41 PM
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Gary,
I have a feeling the H position is messing you up and its not a normal condition but I have seen it so I know your not nuts. I just cant remember what I did to correct it. Doug
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post #104 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 09:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Not sure what you mean by "open video port in line." The VIDEO input BNC jack is connected to a composite-video signal from my DVD.

Position sync was WIDE -- I changed to NARROW.
SYNC TERMINATION is 75 ohms -- that's right?
AFC is normal.
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post #105 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 09:49 PM
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Gary,
The tilt phase is set so the line is the straightest going across the screen. It will appear tilted but disregard that. Your only concerned with the center line, when thats set store-enter then do the curser phase. If thats your back raster its to large or is that the camera? Doug
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post #106 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 09:56 PM
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Gary,
If it has a port on the DVD player that says video loop or video monitor it may need terminating for 75 ohm. This would be like high Z.

Are you in the normal position now or test? Doug
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post #107 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 10:02 PM
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Set position to med point and store-enter both H and V. Doug
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post #108 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 10:10 PM
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There a few things that you wont be able to check without a scope that really should be checked so you will need to assume they are ok

"But if I stored contrast AND bright at 0, NOW I CAN DISPLAY TEST PATTERNS!!"

Really really not normal but need to know the switch position, need to go to bed soon. Doug
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post #109 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
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What's most important to check with a scope? I'm going to try to find one I can borrow for a while.

Ah, I understand the PHASE now. The manual shows bends on both sides. I have to adjust the left-right cursors quite a bit off before one side or the other starts to bend -- see attached pic. (Figured out how to tweak the exposure on the camera to get a much better picture.) You can really see the "folding under" on the left side in this picture.

I used Jrobbo's explanation here to set the PHASE correctly.

I don't see any "video loop" or "video monitor" on the DVD player. Only one composite video out as far as I can see.

I'm in NORMAL position.

OK, I've set H and V POSITION SHIFT to midpoint.

And I need to go to bed too.
LL
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post #110 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 10:30 PM
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That corrected the whip line. at the top.

In the test position have AKB turned on, if you have a half way normal balance store but you will need to raise contrast back up, see that part of the manual.

When you go to norm position hit AKB on then shut back off. Enough for tonight. Doug
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post #111 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 11:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Hm. Yeah, the whip line does seem to be gone. Not sure what did it, though.

"See that part of manual" -- uhh, WHICH part? Turning AKB on, on p. 4-31? That part of the manual just says "turn it on once in a while." I'll assume my balance is half-way normal. Then I'll set contrast up to 60, store, set switch to TEST, turn on AKB, turn off AKB, store. Then switch to NORMAL, AKB on, AKB off, store. Then go to bed. :)

BTW I did something I probably should have done before, and went through a bunch of menus (notably ALIGNMENT and CONVERGENCE) and NORMALized everything. Only major change I saw was in the ALIGNMENT AMPLITUDE. The normalized value increased the size back to where it was before, with the corners of the PHASE test pattern going outside the tube edges. I'm going to assume that "normal" setting was bad and I should use POSITION -> SIZE (or ALIGNMENT -> AMPLITUDE?) to get it within the tube limits again.

Thanks Doug,
Gary
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post #112 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 11:04 PM
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Gary,
Just wanted to tell you that you dont want to raster center using the video freq so dont waste alot of time on that. It needs to be done higher up.

Different set up pros use different resolutions depending on what works best for them. Service manual states 1024 but is for multi purpose use so a consideration.

After you get the white balance worked out then you can go to rgb to set then go back and re position the video in the raster.

What are the freqs you will be using? Doug
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post #113 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 11:12 PM
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Gary,
Sounds like a currupt data copy issue on amplitude.

V position corrected the whip.

See page 10-13, 10-14, 10-24, 10-25. Doug
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post #114 of 448 Old 10-23-2004, 11:22 PM
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Gary,
To save some time when your in test AKB on and if the grayscale looks ok go into the reference white balance and write down the setting for Gain, Bright bias, Bright gain, Black bias.

Remember in test the brightness wont work but contrast does. If it will run set to 100 then check the 2.5V G2 Doug
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post #115 of 448 Old 10-24-2004, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Lots of answers & questions based on your posts, hope you can address them...

"Needs to be done higher up" -- explain please?

Freqs I'll be using: initially DVD @ 720p 72Hz. Probably some SD at 480i because I don't have a doubler yet. Eventually some 1080i if we get HD satellite. The 720p 72Hz is the main one for now, though.

Corrupt data copy issue on amp: where does/did it copy from? How should I resolve it -- set it to the smaller amplitude (or POSITION -> SIZE?), then do a "save as default" ?

The attached picture shows what the raster/image looks like with the NORMALized AMPLITUDE. Notice the raster is well outside the round "lens" area, and the raster is exceeding even the edge of the tube in the bottom 1/3. I assume going outside the round area isn't fatal, since there is actually square tube face there?

I think the grayscale looked "OK" (no glaringly cyan or magenta areas), but I'm sure it's a long way from perfect. Good enough for now -- first things first.

AWB settings resulting from Guy's process last night:
R G B
Drive (gain): 50 na 50 (haven't touched this yet)
Bright Bias: 55 25 19
Bright Gain: 25 23 26
Black Gain: 33 34 44

Those AWB settings result in B and G being driven a bit harder than R. E.g. with the crosshatch test pattern, bright=cont=0, I can see the B & G crosshatch AND raster, but R is dark. Contrast has to get up to about 30 to see the R crosshatch, and a lot higher to see the raster.

With switch in TEST position, AKB turned ON, contrast set to 100, all 3 G2's are 2.5V +/0 0.01V.

I tried an experiment. With cont=bright=0 I displayed the crosshatch. I started raising the contrast, and got it up to 70 with no problems at all. Lowered it down to 0 again, and raised brightness. At bright=36 the image (most notably green) started to "pulsate." I suspect if I'd taken it much farther it would have shut down. But that does indicate I can display test patterns with normal contrast -- it's brightness that's the problem.

Gary
LL
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post #116 of 448 Old 10-24-2004, 10:24 AM
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Gary,
It my Nascar day but I'll help on yellow flags.

Higher up is higher Freq. Use either 480P or 720P at 60hz to do the raster centering. 480P might be easier. Set phase before doing.

Amplitude data, when you copied RGB to video, video will be larger because its a lower freq. Doug
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post #117 of 448 Old 10-24-2004, 10:30 AM
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Gary,
See page 10-11 in the service manual, 1. H-DEF Board. Follow that exact. It needs to be set with the video input and is global to the projector (why we are using the video input) Doug
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post #118 of 448 Old 10-24-2004, 10:50 AM
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Gary,
Dont save as video default yet.

In 'test' it means in the 'test' position of the switch. (video out board) This isnt to be confused with AKB on in the Info menu.

Black bias is G2. Go back and make sure the gray scale is gray in 'test' AKB on. Note contrast at low IRE and 100 IRE (ramp it up) let me know.

Re read 10-13 through 10-29. Doug
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post #119 of 448 Old 10-24-2004, 11:01 AM
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Gary,
You dont want to store to default until the signal being used is complete, if you did raster centering will change it and you will have to start again for video phase, geometry, etc.

While your on video delete all point for each color, hit the normal button then confirm. Store -enter afterwards. Doug
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post #120 of 448 Old 10-24-2004, 11:03 AM
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Doug/Gary,

It does not sound correct to me that with proper G2's, Gary can see his raster at 0/0 for brightness and contrast. Factory settings of 60/75 you should not be able to see the raster. Red sounds like it is correct, with B&G being overdriven????

Gary, listen to Doug when he recommends centering the raster at 720p with 60Hz. HD and standard definition tv will be at 60 HZ. going to 72 Hz will shift the position of the picture slightly. You can use powerstrip to recenter the 72Hz image. You have other work to do prior to that point.

Pete
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