Former CRT "experts" Hidden Agendas? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 542 Old 10-04-2004, 07:00 PM
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Okay. I'll put it in my file, Chip. It's all so involved though. The projectors have now sat so long the CMOS batteries have discharged, scrambling the firmware so I can't get em powered up. I hate to sell tubes that I can't power on and check out. I have quite a few SD187's I've pulled with pristine phosphor. I'd like to put those up for sale too but I run into the same thing. I no longer have a working 7" chassis to test em in. And even if I did Curt told me I have to connect everything to each one including the neck parts to know for sure if they're working right. What an ordeal. I don't know how you guys do it. It must be a labor of love. I admire you all for that.
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post #92 of 542 Old 10-04-2004, 07:11 PM
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I'm sorry I hijacked the thread. And I promise this will be my last post. But
this brings up a question I've wanted to ask you guys.
I have this bunch of SD187's. I pulled em out of those old analog AmPro chassis'. I was told the projectors weren't working when I got em. And they must not have been because I tried to power a couple up and no luck.
Anyway the tubes are all like new. The phosphor is perfect.
Here's the dilemna. I would like to put the tubes on eBay but I can't verify they're working. I sold three of them last year on eBay and luckily they must have been okay cause the buyers' never complained. So hopefully that's an indication that they're all good. But I have no way to know for certain.
If I put em on eBay and say the phosphor is perfect but I have no way to test them electrically, have I covered the bases? And if someone happens to get a bad one is that just the luck of the draw? Or is it unethical to even try to sell em like that?
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post #93 of 542 Old 10-04-2004, 07:12 PM
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You put em up for sale and start the auction at $1 and tell em you dont know if they work or not.

And just let em go

Graham
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post #94 of 542 Old 10-04-2004, 07:42 PM
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I'm getting pissed off here.
I keep seeing these great threads which clearly show that digital is now king and CRT is dead. In all these threads we read how the price of used CRT just dropped off the radar screen.
I get very excited.
I go immediately to e-bay etc looking for that 9500 dirt cheap and it is never there. These clowns still want thousands of dollars for this dino-equipment. At this rate i'll never be able to afford a 9500 or other high end (at least for CRT) CRT.
X1 etc looks better all the time. With each passing year my vision gets a little worse and it gets less important.
Bob, QQQ, WM-----Can you guys PLEASE come up with a new strategy? This is taking way to long. Soon there will be no such thing as a low wear 9" CRT.
BTW and this is no bull
Last week my wife and I were at a local HT store looking at the equip. Of course we were in the neigborhood so I dragged here in. There hanging in the showroom displaying Nemo was an infocus ??? (sorry not sure of the model 7200 MAYBE). I looked at at and commented to the salesman that the image was nice and asked how much. Well it was over 4 times the price I paid for my Marquee. I started talking specs, bulb life etc and the wife pulled me aside and said this.
"If you buy that toaster and replace our GOOD projector you are a fool. Have you gone blind? Ours is clearly better at a fraction of the cost."
I THINK I'M GONNA RENEW OUR VOWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Of course that was not a g-90 vs a H2K or other state of the fart digital but considering the pricing index I'd call it fair.

BTW #2
When I told the salesman I thought the image was nice I was not kidding. IT WAS NICE but not better at least in this case.

Now who needs to clear out their 9" low wear unit. Please PM me.
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post #95 of 542 Old 10-04-2004, 07:56 PM
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What is the definition of an Energeezer? An old geezer on Viagra...

Chip

Current owner of the last/best AmPro on the planet. The mighty 4600HD, and it's still running...better than Barco's, especially southern ones.
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post #96 of 542 Old 10-04-2004, 08:03 PM
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Viagra
I dont need no stinkin viagra.
A six pack will usually increase longevity in my experience.
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post #97 of 542 Old 10-04-2004, 08:12 PM
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Yep, that Canadian beer will do it...

Chip

Current owner of the last/best AmPro on the planet. The mighty 4600HD, and it's still running...better than Barco's, especially southern ones.
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post #98 of 542 Old 10-04-2004, 08:27 PM
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Not trying to convince you of anything here, Steve. I quit doing that long ago. I think CRT's are great (especially the ones which use those tried and true SD187's :)).
Just want to say this. Even later technology than the 7200, the HD2+, I understand will soon be available for about three grand. So it's no longer as expensive as you might think.
Will it make as good a picture as what you have now? That's now been debated by so many with so many different conclusions that there really is no one answer. But it looks pretty sweet except for blacks that won't compare to CRT. About every other difference is more subtle and judging that is more subjective.
So, it boils down now to convenience. Some want to trade off what are now more subtle differences in picture quality to get that convenience (and it is one helluva lot more convenient). Some don't want to make that compromise just to get the convenience. Both decisions are equally valid.
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post #99 of 542 Old 10-04-2004, 08:48 PM
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[quote]Bob, QQQ, WM-----Can you guys PLEASE come up with a new strategy? This is taking way to long.[quote]

[quote]Not trying to convince you of anything here, Steve. I quit doing that long ago.[quote]

Bob
I know you can not convince me. Its the other people you need to convince so I can get my 9500.
BTW
Yes i know there are better examples than the 7200 at a much lower cost and I'm guessing that is what was on display since i can not remeber the model. Here in Canada we pay outrageous prices on digital PJs after import, exchange, govt gouge etc.
For example if you remember I once had a hankerin for an HT 1000 (fine image IMO BTW) which at the time carried a sticker of $5000 USD. When you convert that to CDN its $6362 and that is using todays rate which is the best for us in over 10 years. Then you need to add 14% tax. Now we hit
$7252. Does it end there? Maybe but not if you buy locally. Don't forget about the shops cut etc.
So 7252 is a lot of coin. I paid <1500 for my used Marquee 8500 which by MOST PEOPLES HONEST estimation at least COMES CLOSE in pure image quality all other CRT hassles aside.
I am in total agreement with your argument re image quality not being the ONLY factor for everyone. I could be very happy with the HT 1000 or better image even if it not as good as a G-90 or 9500 for pure image performance.

On a unrelated note
I have not heard from you for a while and i trust you made out OK with all the weather issues this summer in FLA.
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post #100 of 542 Old 10-04-2004, 08:57 PM
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Got a direct hit from Hurricane Ivan. But being 3 miles inland from the water I got by with only some roof damage. It's pretty horrible what happened to people near the water though. I drove along the mainland beachfront this weekend to look. In places it looks like an A-Bomb went off. The barrier islands are not even accessible yet.
What I saw in one neighborhood yesterday I'll never forget.

p.s. even trucks from an electric utility in Quebec are here to help restore the power. Your's is a great country.
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post #101 of 542 Old 10-04-2004, 09:47 PM
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Men buy 9 inchers to make up for their package. Get rid of them if you want to feel better about yourself. ;)
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post #102 of 542 Old 10-04-2004, 09:59 PM
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Funny you mention that, George. This was posted tonight on the digital software forum. Looks like he's now rid of his.

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml...toryID=6406472
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post #103 of 542 Old 10-04-2004, 11:18 PM
 
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To that last link....


WHAT!!!!!

That is just..... disturbing.
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post #104 of 542 Old 10-05-2004, 07:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
I paid <1500 for my used Marquee 8500 which by MOST PEOPLES HONEST estimation at least COMES CLOSE in pure image quality all other CRT hassles aside.I could be very happy with the HT 1000 or better image
geezer you must be joking, yuo think an HT1000 throws a better pic than a M8500? Sounds like your Marquee could use a whole new set-up starting from scratch and proceeding all the way through! A co-worker of mine recently bought an HD2+ Runco and it dosen't even come close to my M8500. I just sold an M8500 to guy who got tired of buying bulbs for HT1000, to the tune of $1350. in 2 years. He thinks the Marquee is miles ahead in smooth film-like presentation and color fidelity.

Marquee HD mod's Marquee Upgrade/re-build package
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post #105 of 542 Old 10-05-2004, 08:41 PM
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Color is very good with the HT1K. If those 8500's don't have color correction, the red primary is orange. Not very pleasing to look at.
"Smooth" and "film-like" can be achieved with a 1024 DLP only when the image size is smaller than most people using front projection will prefer. I prefer an image size of about 1.8x. At that size it's plenty smooth and film-like. I wouldn't be happy if I wanted to go larger. Then it's not smooth and film-like. XGA panel resolution definitely has that limitation.
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post #106 of 542 Old 10-05-2004, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by draganm
A co-worker of mine recently bought an HD2+ Runco and it dosen't even come close to my M8500.
Your opinion is as valid as anyone's. So is HIS. So are others. There's very little consensus on this.
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post #107 of 542 Old 10-06-2004, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
geezer you must be joking, yuo think an HT1000 throws a better pic than a M8500?
Dragman

Please re-read my post.
Clearly I said It at least comes close.
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post #108 of 542 Old 10-06-2004, 12:49 PM
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Robert

That is what is always said about my 161" image. How smooth and film-like it is.

And it just keeps getting better all the time. Everytime I find a better DVD the image just keeps looking better and better.

I like concert DVD's and the last one I bought was the "The Last Waltz". If this DVD represented how HDDVD will look on my system, I would be "totally happy". Of course we all know it will only get better with HDDVD!

I wonder what resolution a digital PJ would have to have to look good on a 140" wide screen with a seating distance of 140".

Deron.

CRT Videophile
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post #109 of 542 Old 10-06-2004, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Please re-read my post.Clearly I said It at least comes close
yeah but how could you possibly be happy with "close" I have a hard time watching an FPD image, there's n going backwards.

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post #110 of 542 Old 10-06-2004, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by deronmoped
Robert

That is what is always said about my 161" image. How smooth and film-like it is.

And it just keeps getting better all the time. Everytime I find a better DVD the image just keeps looking better and better.

I like concert DVD's and the last one I bought was the "The Last Waltz". If this DVD represented how HDDVD will look on my system, I would be "totally happy". Of course we all know it will only get better with HDDVD!

I wonder what resolution a digital PJ would have to have to look good on a 140" wide screen with a seating distance of 140".

Deron.
IMO a 1x size picture would look pretty horrible with any digital projector. Except maybe the 1080p projectors but I don't know because I haven't seen the picture they make.
But to my eyes a 1x size picture is not to my liking with a CRT projector either.
So it's sort of a moot point for me. I'm not a proponent of the "bigger is always better" philosophy.
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post #111 of 542 Old 10-06-2004, 02:43 PM
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I'm with you Bob. I'm not into the gigunda screen sizes. I love my 72 inch screen. Not even when the 4600HD goes up will I change. The image I get now from my NEC via HD feed looks like a 35MM snapshot. 720P Visible scanlines from no further than three feet.

Chip

Current owner of the last/best AmPro on the planet. The mighty 4600HD, and it's still running...better than Barco's, especially southern ones.
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post #112 of 542 Old 10-06-2004, 02:50 PM
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Well my 11' wide screen is dwarfed by that 18' monster of Paul's but 1080p PJs do allow sitting 1x back with great sources. I sit about 1.1X back ,and yea , most DVDs don't cut it, but many do and HD does. I think that if you can it is a much much more engaging experience.


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post #113 of 542 Old 10-06-2004, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by draganm
I have serious doubts when I hear someone say " with the HD2+ machine it was like watching all my favorite movies for the first time again versus my old G90" . I find that more than a little hard to believe.
I admit I haven't read this whole thread, so maybe this has been covered. At first I was bothered by this line as it looked like an obvious attempt to distort the truth, but now I see that it could have been an obvious mistake. The HD2K is not in any way, shape or form an HD2+ machine. HD2+ machines use a 720p chip with toggling mirrors that send light in different directions for on and off. The HD2K is a 1080p machine with Liquid Crystal on Silicon chips that use polarization to control the amount of light to each pixel. Very, very different.

My biggest problem with the poll choices is that there isn't one like, "They can believe their FPD is the best overall while I can believe CRTs are the best overall while both being intelligent, discerning viewers" or one like, "I believe they are being honest about their preference, but I have a different preference." Honestly, I think there is something wrong with people who think that anybody who states different preferences than them must be dishonest.

I hope my position is clear from the past. No matter how much money a person has to spend, at this point they have to pick their poison. There is no display that is better than every other display in all areas (or even overall to people with different viewing habits and preferences).

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #114 of 542 Old 10-06-2004, 03:30 PM
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161 inches, is that diagonal or straight across the top?, are there any brightness issues with a screen that big?what kind of screen is being employed here, is it fabric? paint ? other? best question for last how about some screen shots? sure would like to have a look at a screen that big.................

rant off...........

behind every successful man is a suprised mother-inlaw......
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post #115 of 542 Old 10-06-2004, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by darinp2
I Honestly, I think there is something wrong with people who think that anybody who states different preferences than them must be dishonest.

I don't doubt that vested interests sometimes influence what people say on AVS. That's just human nature. And it doesn't just apply to those making the transition from selling CRT projectors to now selling digital projectors. It also applies to those whose business is CRT projectors.
You may not believe this, but it's not even exclusive to projectors either. My cousin is a franchised car dealer selling GM products. He says GM is better than Ford, Chrysler or the imports. Go figure.
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post #116 of 542 Old 10-06-2004, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RobertWood
I don't doubt that vested interests sometimes influence what people say on AVS. That's just human nature. And it doesn't just apply to those making the transition from selling CRT projectors to now selling digital projectors. It also applies to those whose business is CRT projectors.
You may not believe this, but it's not even exclusive to projectors either. My cousin is a franchised car dealer selling GM products. He says GM is better than Ford, Chrysler or the imports. Go figure.
I understand that there are many people who do this. However, in this case I don't think the facts add up or support this. I think it is pretty obvious that this poll was aimed at William Phelps primarily. I don't see much that has changed with William's involvement with digitals other than his recent decision to switch what he uses personally. He has been calibrating digitals for a while and has also been involved with Faroudja for a while. So, if he is guilty of what many others think he is, then why has he told us in the past that digitals just didn't live up to his G90? As I see it, he has been consistent. There is just a new kid on the block. I'm not sure I share his personal preference for the HD2K over the G90, but that doesn't mean that he isn't being completely honest about his preference in his own theater.

I also believe that William continues to offer calibration services on both digitals and CRTs.

As I see it, for those who have paid attention, the facts just don't add up to some conspiracy in this case.

And in the case of your cousin, sometimes people say one is better because they sell it and sometimes they sell it because they think it is better. While the former is probably more common than the later, I still think assuming some dishonesty in a case like this is somewhat ridiculous. If your cousin had been selling GM for a while and still said that Fords were better overall, then a new GM car came along that he said was now better than the Fords, I would tend to believe him more.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #117 of 542 Old 10-06-2004, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Art Sonneborn
Well my 11' wide screen is dwarfed by that 18' monster of Paul's but 1080p PJs do allow sitting 1x back with great sources. I sit about 1.1X back ,and yea , most DVDs don't cut it, but many do and HD does. I think that if you can it is a much much more engaging experience.


Art
I couldn't agree more. This is exactly the same experience I see even with much inferior lower ended gear. HD is always a great experience plus a few of the dvd's too.

You guys can talk about the black levels till the cows come home, but for me it has always been about the engaging experience. What is more important to a home theater than an engaging experience? And thats where its been (and probably still is) at with crt. One might compromise with black levels but get too close to the screen using a digital and your not even in the ballgame.

To me looking at pixels or a small screen is not even in the hunt.

Bob
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post #118 of 542 Old 10-06-2004, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by darinp2

As I see it, for those who have paid attention, the facts just don't add up to some conspiracy in this case.

--Darin
And even if it is a conspiracy, why would that bother the rest of us? Theres nothing that should be bothering us here.

Bob
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post #119 of 542 Old 10-06-2004, 05:34 PM
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I agree with you (Darin) about Phelps. I've read his posts for four years. I don't for one minute believe he gives a rat's a** about promoting one type projector over another. If he says what he thinks is better than something else, it's purely because he believes it's better.
And I put you in the same category. I think you call a spade a spade. And you've now owned about every kind of projector there is. Because of those two things, your opinion carries a lot of weight for me. Same with Art.

But I'm not naive. Not everyone here is as candid as you and Phelps and Art. What's more typical here is guys who become married to a projector and then can't bring themselves to find any fault with it. And also have a need to point out that their's is a better choice than the other guy's. I've seen that happening ever since I started reading AVS in 1999.
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post #120 of 542 Old 10-06-2004, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RVonse
One might compromise with black levels but get too close to the screen using a digital and your not even in the ballgame.

To me looking at pixels or a small screen is not even in the hunt.
This just isn't the case with the digital that this thread looks like it was mostly started for (the HD2K 1080p LCOS). Very smooth. I agree that the black levels don't hold up to the CRTs though.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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