Former CRT "experts" Hidden Agendas? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #181 of 542 Old 10-09-2004, 07:55 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
RobertWood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 17,185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
That's a good question (why it's still up there), Chip. I honestly don't know why? When I first got the DLP I used to switch between them. But then after a while I just got accustomed to the DLP. I guess I rationalize keeping it because if the DLP blows up I know I'll have have a backup. Either that or it's just such a pain in the butt to get one down. :)
RobertWood is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #182 of 542 Old 10-09-2004, 07:58 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
George Montemayor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Hayward, CA
Posts: 1,061
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I think Robert leaves the CRT up there to remind the DLP that out it goes if it doesn't behave well.
George Montemayor is offline  
post #183 of 542 Old 10-09-2004, 08:52 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
RobertWood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 17,185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
That's probably not far from the truth, George.
I think by now all the machines around here fully understand my instinctive hatred for them. They know I won't hesitate to take any of em out back of the woodshed for an attitude adjustment. They've now all been witness to what a 5 lb sledge hammer can do to more than one of their brothers.
RobertWood is offline  
post #184 of 542 Old 10-09-2004, 10:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
stefuel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Marshfield, MA, USA
Posts: 5,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 13
At least with a digital, you've got close to a 1:1 hammer to weight ratio. The CRT may take way more than one whack to deal with it.

Chip

Current owner of the last/best AmPro on the planet. The mighty 4600HD, and it's still running...better than Barco's, especially southern ones.
stefuel is offline  
post #185 of 542 Old 10-10-2004, 12:18 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
darinp2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Quote:
Originally posted by Vincent M.
But I dont think all this convenient "sudden discovery" that digitals are better(by former crt gurus that coincidently are now selling/calibrating digital) carries much weight.
BS
Quote:
To me if comes across as nothing more than an advert for digital by people who have a vested interest in it now.
More BS. Are you purposely ignoring that William has been working with Faroudja for years and calibrating digitals for a living for quite a while and yet was telling us that no digital lived up to his G90 (until he got the HD2K)?

This whole line of reasoning about William all of a sudden having a vested interest and switching for that reason is just plain BS. I know people like things dark, but it doesn't mean that people should keep their brains in the dark too.

If you want to accuse somebody of something you should at least come up with evidence that will stick and you should have your facts right.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
darinp2 is offline  
post #186 of 542 Old 10-10-2004, 07:27 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
RobertWood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 17,185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
You're so right, Darin. I had forgotten until you mentioned that. While he was engaged in calibrating all those D-ILA's, it would repeatedly come up on the digital forum about whether he preferred it over CRT. And when he did choose to respond, he would always very matter of factly and very emphatically tell them his G90 made a picture which was superior to anything else.

A little anecdote to this:
I remember one little flap in particular and this goes back several years.
Back then the digital projectors were still lemons. The picture they made mostly couldn't hold a candle to even that of my old 7" projectors.
Many of those guys on the digital forum back then had never even seen a CRT projector perform. So they were clueless. And because of that they would argue the silliest things.
At one point, several of them finally got to see a G90 that William had done the setup on at one of the trade shows.
Following this, a thread went up over there which proclaimed that all of us CRT enthusiasts (I was one back then) had been lying to them. Because the "black" they saw in that G90 picture was no different from their digitals.
Some of us tried to tell them that's not the case. And what they saw could easily be explained by someone coming behind William and jacking up the brightness to overcome ambient light and make the picture visible in the less than ideal conditions of a demo room at a trade show.
But no. They wouldn't hear of that. They had seen it with their own eyes. CRT "black" was no blacker than their LCD picture. And we had lied to them.
There was a time over there when that bunch was not as sophisticated as they are today.
RobertWood is offline  
post #187 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 09:21 AM
Senior Member
 
Vincent M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 278
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
First Darin I dont recall mentioning ANY individual,I spoke collectively.

How is it BS? IF these guys were NOT involved with digital in a commercial sense and singing the praises of digital then maybe.
But thats not the case.

You say its only recently that William crossed over to digital so his statement must be gospel?

Its like me saying the company I work for is great then moving to another company and saying its better!

As this seems to be an opportunity for pro-digital followers to have a dig at crt then so be it.

But what areas then does any digital best crt in the important picture stakes?

Digital cant do blacks as well,they have a poorer dynamic range,they have no sense of depth to the picture and the bulb doesnt last as long.

Now if we ignore these facts,and if you sit far enough back you cant notice the pixels then they are o.k.
The extra brightness of dlp is pretty useless in a home theatre situation.

The colours on some of the high end dlp`s aint bad,most have unatural overblown colours though.

Yes I know dlps and high end lcos are more convenient(in most cases.)-but wher pray tell me,in the picture stakes does digital beat crt???????????

I dont understand why digital fans and good luck to them,the people with bad eyes have to buy something :-) come in the crt forum and "tout" for business?

This thread was about the hidden agenda of crt sellers,that agenda is clear;- the move to digital and the process of lambasting crt by means of justification of what is now being sold.

Like I said Darin,I dont dissagree,im just stating the obvious so calm down and stop swearing.

..Your selling your HD2K ARE YOU NOT? :-)

Please,please,HDTV for the u.k.
Vincent M. is offline  
post #188 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 09:42 AM
QQQ
AVS Addicted Member
 
QQQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,998
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Vincent M.,

I think the motive behind your attacks against your competitors is clear, all the while pretending to be unbiased when you are the UK's biggest importer of CRT and your livelihood depends on it.
QQQ is offline  
post #189 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 09:57 AM
Senior Member
 
Vincent M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 278
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
QQQ,
Im not attacking digital,Its my opinion that pic wise its still not there,but I absolutely understand that ALL crt sellers will move to it because thats how the market is going.
I think in this transition time its difficult because so many of us WANT digital to get better.(Heck of a lot easier to sell than crt!!)
But thats it-we want it to be better,we will convince ourselves its better for an easier life :-)

Please,please,HDTV for the u.k.
Vincent M. is offline  
post #190 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 10:00 AM
QQQ
AVS Addicted Member
 
QQQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 10,998
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally posted by Vincent M.
QQQ,
Im not attacking digital,Its my opinion that pic wise its still not there,but I absolutely understand that ALL crt sellers will move to it because thats how the market is going.
I think in this transition time its difficult because so many of us WANT digital to get better.(Heck of a lot easier to sell than crt!!)
But thats it-we want it to be better,we will convince ourselves its better for an easier life :-)
At least you didn't try to deny who you really are.
QQQ is offline  
post #191 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 10:14 AM
Senior Member
 
Vincent M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 278
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I wont deny I sell crt,but I sell crt because I still believe in it and think now is a great time for people to get a magnificent picture for the cost of a mid priced dlp.
First and foremost I have always been a home theatre fan and fastidious about pic quality.
I remember looking at a faxed spec sheet of a Marquee 8500LC 6 years ago(I think.) and wishing I could afford one.

Now you can pick them up for $3,000-for a real good example.
What digital at 3k or 5k for that matter can compete with that?

But the truth is I like so many others are on borrowed time,I know that.
But as long as I can survive with an involvement with something I believe in -I will.
I dont think there will be an affordable digital to trade punches with the better crt`s for maybe 5 years,whether or not crt sales will be buoyant for 5 years though..I doubt it.
Because when people can buy 90% of the quality of crt for 3k I believe that to not the hassle of setting up,converging etc..they will.
Its already happening-not because of quality though-because of convenience.

Whether im the U.K.`s largest crt importer or not I cant comment on,more like the ONLY importer of crt in the U.K. :-)

Please,please,HDTV for the u.k.
Vincent M. is offline  
post #192 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 12:16 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
darinp2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Quote:
Originally posted by Vincent M.
First Darin I dont recall mentioning ANY individual,I spoke collectively.
Okay, so tell us who you are referring to. I think it is quite obvious that you were including William in your statement. So, why don't you tell us who else you are referring to that is "now selling/calibrating digital" and had a "sudden discovery that digitals are better"?
Quote:
To me if comes across as nothing more than an advert for digital by people who have a vested interest in it now.
This statement sure looks like it applies to you, except in regard to CRT.

You would have some more credibility if you had even seen the projector in question.
Quote:

How is it BS? IF these guys were NOT involved with digital in a commercial sense and singing the praises of digital then maybe.
But thats not the case.
The part that is BS is the part about all of a sudden having a vested interest in it. And your sentence here would sure seem to apply directly to you, except with CRT instead of digital. Other than the fact that you haven't even seen the HD2K and at least in William's case he owned both projectors discussed.
Quote:

You say its only recently that William crossed over to digital so his statement must be gospel?
No, I didn't say it was gospel. I said that the fact that he told us the CRT was better while he had a vested interest in digitals makes a difference. And it invalidates your claim below about moving to another company and then saying it is better. You and others have made accusations and they should be based on facts and you should be able to back them up. I haven't seen anybody make a compelling case that the things William said he likes better on the HD2K (colors, brightness uniformity, sharpness and maybe some I missed) are not valid. William has acknowledged that the black level was better on the G90.
Quote:

Its like me saying the company I work for is great then moving to another company and saying its better!
No. In William's case it is like working for two companies and saying that one company had a product that you like better. Then one day saying that a new product that the second company released has surpassed anything from the first company in your opinion. I think this is another case of you distorting things. I think it is quite obvious even from this post that you were including William in your earlier accusation. So, who didn't have an interest in digitals before, switched to selling/calibrating digitals, and all of a sudden decided digitals were better as your statements here imply? That is, who did something like this switching companies and then switching what they say is better as you say?
Quote:
But what areas then does any digital best crt in the important picture stakes?
I've already mentioned some of the areas that William has posted for why he preferred the HD2K. I know you guys argue about the depth, but I think this is somewhat subjective. In the darkest scenes I would agree that the CRTs have the advantage (the black level advantage has already been mentioned), but in scenes that aren't very dark I just haven't seen it. Especially with good material. The best depth I've seen in HT wasn't on a CRT. I believe the best depth I've seen was in brighter material on a digital. And yes, that includes the dual G90 setup. This isn't to say that the room differences or material weren't involved.
Quote:

Now if we ignore these facts,and if you sit far enough back you cant notice the pixels then they are o.k.
I think this makes it even more obvious that you basically know very little about the HD2K. The pixels are gone from inside 0.5x (exactly where probably changes somewhat by the person). Do you sit closer than that?
Quote:

The extra brightness of dlp is pretty useless in a home theatre situation.
I'm considering putting a close to 11' wide screen in my theater room to use with my Qualia. I won't consider the extra lumens useless at all if I do that. Unless you are talking two G90s like Art went to.
Quote:
but wher pray tell me,in the picture stakes does digital beat crt???????????
I've mentioned some where at least one person feels one digital beats his CRT and as I've said, I haven't heard anybody make a compelling argument that he is wrong. Your comments about colors and pixels hold no water since you haven't seen the HD2K and your comments about pixels obviously don't apply to it.

As I've said elsewhere, just picture for picture there is a good chance I would pick the G90 myself for my theater room. This doesn't mean I can't understand William's opinion though.
Quote:

This thread was about the hidden agenda of crt sellers,that agenda is clear;- the move to digital and the process of lambasting crt by means of justification of what is now being sold.
And talk about hidden agendas. At least William didn't have to have somebody point out his stake in this.
Quote:
Like I said Darin,I dont dissagree,im just stating the obvious so calm down and stop swearing.
It is interesting that you claim to be stating the obvious when you haven't even seen the projector that started this thread (I think it is clear that the G90 to HD2K switch inspired it) and you are making claims about things like pixels that aren't even true.
Quote:

..Your selling your HD2K ARE YOU NOT? :-)
Pretty much every projector I have is a possibility for sale. I've wanted to get rid of my NEC 9PG+ for quite a while, but haven't been willing to take a >60% loss after less than 20 hours of use. I've never lost near that much on any digital. It is true that I haven't decided between the Qualia and HD2K and will most likely sell one of them.

BTW: I don't think anybody has claimed that the HD2K has better price/performance if you only count the images compared to a $12.5k G90. Convenience isn't free. I think the question here is really whether a person who prefers the images from the HD2K must be being dishonest about it or is only saying so because of some "hidden agenda".

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
darinp2 is offline  
post #193 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 03:47 PM
Member
 
MarqueeMarc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Western PA
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just some thoughts here : I'm seeing all sorts of arguments as to who is selling what but the point is not can people like William Phelps possibly like the JVC unit better than a G 90 but could his move be motivated by something other than it looking better. I believe that there is way way more than credible evidence that it can.

1) William Phelps is a traveling calibrator who is traveling a lot less I've heard. Doing digital calibrations in his lab would certainly be a better option than G 90s since these each would have to be done in homes, and digitals look like the future to any rational person.

2) Although William has been working with Faroudja for a long time,having a William Phelps edition of a projector is a new thing ,as far as I know, and I would bet that he is getting a per unit sales kickback on each unit sold.

3) Used CRT prices are dropping like a rock and unless William is independently wealthy (and wouldn't care) he would take a bath on a G 90 sale if he waited very much longer.

4) It looked like he made his announcement about the JVC/ Faroudja unit being the best around the time of CEDIA, which seemed fishy at least since the William Phelps Edition was announced there. It makes sense that he had been toying with it for some time prior, since the unit was shown by JVC a full year before, and even having a custom brushed aluminum case for the projector with his name embossed on it would have taken some time.

5) Touting his product while having a G90 on his ceiling would probably be an unacceptable contradiction for him ,under the circumstances ,at least.

My point here is not that the JVC unit is better in his eyes (or even if it may be better period), but that questioning his motivation, at least in part as a business decision, can not be realistically or logically discounted.

Marc
MarqueeMarc is offline  
post #194 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 03:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Semisentient's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Woodbridge,Ontario
Posts: 1,417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by MarqueeMarc

3) Used CRT prices are dropping like a rock and unless William is independently wealthy (and wouldn't care) he would take a bath on a G 90 sale if he waited very much longer.[/b]
Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisWiggles

Prices seem to be relatively stable with CRTs, the downward trend in prices is still quite slow, at least it seems that way to me.
Come on CRT guys! Get your stories straight!!! :)

I hope they are falling... I'm in the hunt!

James

There's no place I can be, since I found Serenity. You can't take the sky from me.
Semisentient is offline  
post #195 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 04:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
techman707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Florida & New York
Posts: 9,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
The only thing "falling like a rock" is junk. While people used to pay high prices for CRTs with worn out tubes, only projectors with excellent or new tubes are in demand. I assume that's because it's become more and more difficult to get "new oem tubes". Where "new" tubes are all but impossible to get, if VDC doesn't have a rebuild for it, the projector is all but worthless.

All this Walmart "watch out for falling prices" is a rumor being spread by, in my opinion, people who want to buy CRTs cheap. If they get everyone paranoid about falling prices, they hope to get a projector cheap from panic selling.

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Ghandi
techman707 is offline  
post #196 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 04:27 PM
Member
 
MarqueeMarc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Western PA
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Semisentient
Come on CRT guys! Get your stories straight!!! :)


James
I'm not a CRT guy, at least anymore. I had a Runco 991 for some time but I had to go digital due to moving and needing to have the projector take up less room.

Marc
MarqueeMarc is offline  
post #197 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 04:32 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
darinp2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Quote:
Originally posted by MarqueeMarc
Just some thoughts here : I'm seeing all sorts of arguments as to who is selling what but the point is not can people like William Phelps possibly like the JVC unit better than a G 90 but could his move be motivated by something other than it looking better. I believe that there is way way more than credible evidence that it can.
I don't have a problem with people saying that it could be influenced, but when they say that it is and/or state facts that aren't true.
Quote:

1) William Phelps is a traveling calibrator who is traveling a lot less I've heard. Doing digital calibrations in his lab would certainly be a better option than G 90s since these each would have to be done in homes, and digitals look like the future to any rational person.
I believe that having projectors sent to him has been true with the G150, SX21, and HX-1 models over the last few years. I'm not really familiar with his travel schedule.
Quote:

2) Although William has been working with Faroudja for a long time,having a William Phelps edition of a projector is a new thing ,as far as I know, and I would bet that he is getting a per unit sales kickback on each unit sold.
I really don't know if this "Calibrated by William Phelps" thing is new or not. I mentioned it to someone else, but just don't know the answer. I would think he would get paid for everything he calibrates at the least. I also think you guys assume a lot about how many sales (if any) would be affected by him stating what he likes better about the images on the HD2K. For those looking for a conspiracy, why didn't he tout how great the G90 was while he had it for sale?
Quote:

3) Used CRT prices are dropping like a rock and unless William is independently wealthy (and wouldn't care) he would take a bath on a G 90 sale if he waited very much longer.
While I do think CRT prices will drop, I don't see his $12.5k G90 selling for less than $6k in a year and probably higher. HD2Ks should drop more in absolute dollars over the next year, but I'm sure William gets a discount (as he would have with any versions of the G150, SX21, or HX-1).
Quote:

4) It looked like he made his announcement about the JVC/ Faroudja unit being the best around the time of CEDIA, which seemed fishy at least since the William Phelps Edition was announced there. It makes sense that he had been toying with it for some time prior, since the unit was shown by JVC a full year before, and even having a custom brushed aluminum case for the projector with his name embossed on it would have taken some time.
I don't know exactly when he got a final version that also included the scaler, but my impression is that it was not long before CEDIA and this is often the case with shows. The developers get them ready just in time. I knew about how impressed he was with the HD2K and Faroudja scaler combined before somebody (not William) posted here. I think he could have gotten more for his G90 a year ago, so I don't think these arguments about him having the HD2K for a while but selling his G90 only recently to keep from losing money, work that well together.
Quote:

5) Touting his product while having a G90 on his ceiling would probably be an unacceptable contradiction for him ,under the circumstances ,at least.
William has pretty much stated that he isn't the type to state something he doesn't believe and I think his history here supports that.
Quote:

My point here is not that the JVC unit is better in his eyes (or even if it may be better period), but that questioning his motivation, at least in part as a business decision, can not be realistically or logically discounted.
As I pretty much stated, to me questioning and accusing are 2 different things. It is the accusers and assumers I have the problem with.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
darinp2 is offline  
post #198 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 04:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
techman707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Florida & New York
Posts: 9,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally posted by MarqueeMarc
I'm not a CRT guy, at least anymore. I had a Runco 991 for some time but I had to go digital due to moving and needing to have the projector take up less room.

Marc
Just curious, why do you call yourself MarqueeMarc if you don't even have a CRT pj anymore?

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Ghandi
techman707 is offline  
post #199 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 04:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
techman707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Florida & New York
Posts: 9,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally posted by darinp2

While I do think CRT prices will drop, I don't see his $12.5k G90 selling for less than $6k in a year and probably higher.

--Darin
Darin,

I don't think that a G90 (in the shape of William Phelps unit) will be selling for less than 6K either in a year either. People should be aware that all CRT projectors aren't created equal. You can buy a G70 with high hours and shot tubes for as little as $1500, but, after you pay nearly $3,000 for a new set of tubes (without installation), you're now talking $4500. In the end it will boil down to the condition and price of the CRT vs. the price of a digital that is comparable in performance, so far, it hasn't arrived. First the digital will have to appear, then the price will have to drop to comparable CRT levels. That will spell the end for CRT, but, it doesn't mean if you have a CRT with new tubes that works perfect will have to be discarded.

I believe WE drive the market right here.

Bruce

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Ghandi
techman707 is offline  
post #200 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 06:24 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
RobertWood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 17,185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by QQQ
Vincent M.,
you are the UK's biggest importer of CRT and your livelihood depends on it.
Quote:
Originally posted by Vincent M.
I wont deny I sell crt
Well I'll be.
RobertWood is offline  
post #201 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 06:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
AndyN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 1,023
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 19
I'm really puzzled by all the concerns regarding Mr. William Phelps. We'll never know whether or not his motives are what he says they are. Then again, we'll never know what anyones motives truly are as well.

All I can say is that I've been in contact with Mr. Phelps regarding my CRT PJ. I've asked him more than once if I should have him calibrate it or buy a new JVC (specifically asked him about the D-ILA's) and never, not once did he give me an answer either way. He simply recommends that I take a look for myself and decide. He's offered to have me check out the HX2 when it arrives so that I can decide for myself. So for me I'm puzzled why he, in particular, is being called out.

EVERYONE has some sort of motive. Live with it. Enjoy your projectors and move on. Focus on the BS with HDCP instead.
AndyN is offline  
post #202 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 06:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
techman707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Florida & New York
Posts: 9,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally posted by QQQ
Vincent M.,

I think the motive behind your attacks against your competitors is clear, all the while pretending to be unbiased when you are the UK's biggest importer of CRT and your livelihood depends on it.
Hey QQQ, why don't you stay with the digital folks, you don't know what you're talking about. If Vincent M. is the "biggest importer" of CRTs in the U.K., then I'm the biggest seller of CRTs in the U.S., both statements are UNTRUE! :mad:

As has been said before, you just "drop in" here from time to time to stir up trouble, then crawl back to the digital forum. It must be VERY boring there. ;)

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Ghandi
techman707 is offline  
post #203 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 07:04 PM
Senior Member
 
Vincent M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 278
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
To answer Darins comments first-why so antagonistic?


I came here to post regards the topic of this thread" crt sellers-hidden agenda?" my view is that there is another agenda not necessarily hidden,and that agenda is to move towards digital.

I have also stated I see no harm in this.

I have theorised that there could be sellers who tout digital with a "created" self belief in the superiority or equality of digital at this point in time.

I believe that inwardly their belief may be a little different.

Thats just my opinion though.

I have also said I know the future to be digital.

Where I cannot concur is that there is ANY digital at present to beat the better crt`s out there.

Agreed I have not seen every digital,but then I was generalising,I havent seen every crt either.

My opinion is based on what I have seen and thats practically everything except williams new toy.

You make a lot of assumptions,you think this thread is about William-maybe it is-but it doesnt say it is.
You assume im talking about William-though I dont mention William by name-another assumption.

Nevertheless I cant see why you are so vitriolic ,If William wants to believe his digital is now better than a G90-good for him,thats his opinion,but like I said earlier its naieve to think that such an esteemed opinion will not create a ripple in the waters of crt-dom.
Maybe this thread is about that-my comments were not,so I suggest you tackle the thread starter if you want to strike a blow for digital or leap to Williams defence like some kind of digital minder :-)

Where I do take exception is in your comments relating to digital "depth"..so what digital has depth then? What digital has the 3d like effect one can see with a Marquee 8500LC for example? because I would like to see it.

I think you are a bit of a con man Darin,every now and then you throw in a comment about how you would like a G90 etc in your home theatre-and yet you are firmly in the digital camp,a lot of your comments in this thread seem to be strongly pushing forward digital.
Frankly I find such things tiresome,I am a crt fan,I think crt still holds the high ground with regard to picture quality-thats my opinion.I admit to being biased until I see a digital thats as good.
Thats it.
This is the crt forum,Im answering a thread talking about crt sellers.

If you want to preach digital shouldnt you be in the digital forum?

Robert;-

Dont be so surprised I sell crt-me and about 100 others in this forum :-)
I was into crt long before there was any home digitals,I loved crt then-I still do..
I may have a vested interest in crt-like many others in here but I like to think I am honest in my belief of crt.I daresay there is more money to be made in digital now-so why havent I switched.

Because I wont compromise my integrity for a few more dollars-when I believe digital is good enough then Ill sell them with confidence enough to say;-"Ive stopped selling crt now because digital is better"

..Oh,and I talk collectively here. :-)

Please,please,HDTV for the u.k.
Vincent M. is offline  
post #204 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 07:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
techman707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Florida & New York
Posts: 9,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
And that, I dare say, is that!

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Ghandi
techman707 is offline  
post #205 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 07:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Vincent M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 278
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
..If only.Im sure we shall see little "excerpts" of our comments with suitable retort from Darin :-)

Please,please,HDTV for the u.k.
Vincent M. is offline  
post #206 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 07:28 PM
Member
 
MarqueeMarc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Western PA
Posts: 106
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Darin,
I've followed your posts on the digital forum with great interest for a while,including while I was still just lurking. I think you are one of the brightest ,and most of all, one of the most even handed people on the digital forum but on this one I just think you are in denial.

I see nothing wrong with William Phelps doing "the smart business thing", I'd probably do the same,but thinking that there is no credible argument for him having that bias just doesn't hold water.



techman707,
My screen name is a play on two things ,the old rap artist's name and a movie marquee.


Marc
MarqueeMarc is offline  
post #207 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 07:33 PM
Senior Member
 
Vincent M.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 278
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Sometimes the stars that burn the brightest burn the fastest! :-)

Please,please,HDTV for the u.k.
Vincent M. is offline  
post #208 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 07:42 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
RobertWood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 17,185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
To be honest, Vince, In the grand scheme of things I think this whole debate is pretty insignificant.
And why would I say that?
Here in the US we have a weekly television newsmagazine show called "60 Minutes". I happened to watch the first segment of last night's show. Frankly, I wouldn't even try to put into words what that revealed. Because I don't know how.
But those who might have seen it will maybe understand when I say this. An argument over which type projector we have in theaters in our homes is not one of life's pressing issues. I realize this message board was put here to discuss this very thing. And there's nothing wrong with that.
But there maybe is something a little wrong with our sometimes becoming overly obsessed with it all. To argue which of this stuff is preferable is one thing. But to take it to the point of questioning each other's motives and reducing it to pissing contests is quite another.
The fact that we even have theaters and projectors of any kind in our homes I think is something we should all feel pretty fortunate to have.
After what I saw last night, the fact that we even have homes should make us feel fortunate. Hell, the fact that we even have civilization should make us feel fortunate.
RobertWood is offline  
post #209 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 07:48 PM
 
ChrisWiggles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Seattle
Posts: 20,730
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Mr wood had a transcendant experience from 60 minutes?

No longer the Sultan of Cheap then?

;)
ChrisWiggles is offline  
post #210 of 542 Old 10-11-2004, 07:56 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
darinp2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,236
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Quote:
Originally posted by Vincent M.
Where I cannot concur is that there is ANY digital at present to beat the better crt`s out there.
I have no problem with somebody having this opinion, but you have taken it to saying that anybody who says otherwise has no credibility. I still haven't seen people actually counter the reasons that William stated for liking the digital. As I see it, many just come up with reasons why it could also be in his best interest and say it must be that and not that he actually likes the images better.
Quote:

You make a lot of assumptions,you think this thread is about William-maybe it is-but it doesnt say it is.
You assume im talking about William-though I dont mention William by name-another assumption.
The first post even had a quote close to William's and although the poster didn't know what they were talking about with HD2+ and HD2K, I think a person would have to be an idiot to think that wasn't about William. And you still won't even tell us who you were referring to that is "now selling/calibrating digital" and had a "sudden discovery that digitals are better" other than trying to claim this didn't include William.
Quote:
but like I said earlier its naieve to think that such an esteemed opinion will not create a ripple in the waters of crt-dom.
I also think it would be naive to think that it wouldn't create ripples. And that some people will find a way to attack somebody who trades the product they like for a different one. The fact that it will create ripples doesn't justify attacks.
Quote:

Where I do take exception is in your comments relating to digital "depth"..so what digital has depth then? What digital has the 3d like effect one can see with a Marquee 8500LC for example? because I would like to see it.
In many scenes I see a lot of depth on my Qualia. I actually can't remember whether I was watching "The Fifth Element" on the Qualia or the HD2K yesterday at the time, but the scene as Bruce Willis was going in to see the opera singer had great depth. It was like looking into another room. From far enough back the Sharp 11k can also show a lot of depth, but the Qualia and HD2K have the pixels for fairly close viewing. There is also a scene from "Star Wars 2" in a bright room that I thought had incredible depth on one of these. As I said, the CRTs have the advantage of being able to go darker. In the brighter scenes the 11k has higher ANSI CR than any CRT I've ever seen, so anybody claiming that blacks give the depth to the image should remember that there are many scenes where the instantaneous CR is higher on the digital. And I haven't seen every CRT. The best I've seen is the dual G90 stack at Art's place.

And as I said, all I am relating is my experience. I don't know if I made it clear, but when I said the "best depth I've seen" I was talking about individual scenes. I was not claiming anything about whole movies. Just that when I think of the instances where I've seen the most depth, they were on digitals in reasonably bright scenes.

I'm also not counting the depth I get with my Sensio 3D system, as that is another story.
Quote:

I think you are a bit of a con man Darin,every now and then you throw in a comment about how you would like a G90 etc in your home theatre
I have never said I wanted a G90. If I wanted one I would buy one (or I would have bought one already). I am not interested in owning any 200+ lb projectors. I'm a con man because you can't figure out what "picture for picture" means?
Quote:

If you want to preach digital shouldnt you be in the digital forum?
I don't care where the thread is, this thread is ultimately about digitals and CRTs anyway. I know many here would like to have their little love-fests with each other where they make things up and pat each other on the back without anybody pointing out things they say that aren't true. I find the whole, "We're trashing something in our forum, so how dare you defend it" line of thinking to be rather funny (and ridiculous). If somebody made stuff up about CRTs on the digital forums I would say something also.
Quote:
Originally posted by MarqueeMarc
I see nothing wrong with William Phelps doing "the smart business thing", I'd probably do the same,but thinking that there is no credible argument for him having that bias just doesn't hold water.
I saw nothing wrong with your questioning. I actually thought they were reasonable questions (although I thought two of them somewhat contradicted each other as he should have sold his G90 last year to get top dollar if he already had an HD2K to use). I still don't think it adds up to a guilty verdict though. We can agree to disagree on that.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
darinp2 is offline  
Closed Thread CRT Projectors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off