HD144 lens on any machine that uses HD8's..... - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 203 Old 11-19-2006, 09:07 PM
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I told you HD-14x lenses are better

HD-144's are a little better again.

But your linky no worky for me.

Can we have a 1:1 close up of 1080p 72hz please?

My XG LC barely does 1:1 at 1080i72hz, and it's had Benny tweak it, as well as me, so I'm very interested to see your results!

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post #182 of 203 Old 11-20-2006, 02:07 AM
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Not sure why that link is not working for you. It works fine for me. I'm uploading it to a site someone recommeded, because I was having the same problem with my Yahoo storage.

I've linked a downrezed image for now (800x600) until I can get this figured out.

I'll try this out later today at 1080p / 72hz full resolution (2592x1952).
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post #183 of 203 Old 11-20-2006, 02:16 AM
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Nup, I get a 404 error.

I am on the other side of the world though...

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post #184 of 203 Old 11-20-2006, 02:27 AM
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I'll try tinypics again. This is the 800x600 downez:




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post #185 of 203 Old 11-20-2006, 02:36 AM
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Here's the full rez image from a direct link:

http://upload.georgeownsme.com/image.php/13991.jpg

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post #186 of 203 Old 11-20-2006, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W View Post

ICan we have a 1:1 close up of 1080p 72hz please?

Attached is an image of the smpte pattern at 1920x1080p 60hz.

I took this a few minutes ago with the light in the room. I'll get back to this later tonight showing this same pattern and at 72hz. It's a bit too much light in the room for now, and that makes it difficult for the camera to focus tightly.


The HD-145 lenses does wonders for that pattern, even while the camera is not at it's best focus. You can actually see the black in between the vert pixel lines on the top left pattern.
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post #187 of 203 Old 11-20-2006, 09:34 AM
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post #188 of 203 Old 11-20-2006, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prehjan View Post

I do hope this does not sound like a stupid question!
But are all HD-144 lenses the same width?
I took the ones off of the NEC 6PG Extra that I got and they are thinner than the marquees original HD-8Bs...Are all HD144s that way?Martin

you're right, this does sound like a stupid question round objects can not be "thinner" unless your slicing Balogney. However all 144/145 lenses are smaller diameter than HD8's This is why people are making expensive adapter plates.

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post #189 of 203 Old 11-20-2006, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kschmit2 View Post

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Me either. Mike, Clarence suggested imageshack.com awhile back and I have used it religously. It is simple and easy to use. They even give you a link for thumbnails. Clarence also suggested Microsoft resizer to reduce the size of the pics. I take a 2288x1712 (4meg) pic that is around 2 meg in file size. I use the resizer at the same 2288x1712 to reduce the file size down to between 250 to 500k, which will allow hosting on Imageshack. This allows the same large image to be displayed. While there is a loss of detail, you would be surprised at how little it is. This is how I posted the images from that VDC thread back in June that is now gone (I guess it is being moved to the archives).

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post #190 of 203 Old 11-20-2006, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draganm View Post

you're right, this does sound like a stupid question round objects can not be "thinner" unless your slicing Balogney. However all 144/145 lenses are smaller diameter than HD8's This is why people are making expensive adapter plates.

Yeah, it took me a while to figure out "thinner" too.

But, if the lenses have a smaller diameter, are they still larger than the CRT face? or is it like using less of your phophor?

?

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post #191 of 203 Old 11-20-2006, 01:08 PM
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The 144 lenses have a input diameter of 4.05"; HD8 is 4.8"; 145 is 4.5".

The 144's focus very close to the tube face, (larger screen = closer focus point),
145's focus somewhat further away from the tube face for the same size screen.

So for a larger screen, the combination of larger input diameter and more relaxed
entrance angle makes the 145's a better choice.

That being said, plenty of people are happy with the 144's, the combination of
color filtering and improved focus makes for a much better picture overall.
Actually having accurate reds and greens is something that adds considerably
more realism, and it affects more scenes than some may realize......

Typically, without any other changes, it is possible to increase resolution
approx 20% - say from 720x1280P to 864x1536P, (assuming you're running
an htpc or scaler) and still have a much sharper image.

Point being, although the hd8's may be physically larger, their performance
is considerably less - and in fact is a limiting factor in the overall video chain.

Especially if you have the early hd8revB (with the wingnuts) - absolutely lousy
focus (had them on my '94 Marquee8000)

Hope some of that is helpful....

G
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post #192 of 203 Old 11-20-2006, 02:00 PM
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Good explaination there G, now I really must get round to fitting my hd145's
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post #193 of 203 Old 11-20-2006, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GEBrown View Post

But, if the lenses have a smaller diameter, are they still larger than the CRT face? or is it like using less of your phophor?
?

they are smaller, but should still be able to capture the entire tube face due the curvature of the first element. Think of it as a fish-eye camera lense working in reverse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zGman View Post

The 144 lenses have a input diameter of 4.05"; HD8 is 4.8"; 145 is 4.5".The 144's focus very close to the tube face, (larger screen = closer focus point), 145's focus somewhat further away from the tube face for the same size screen.

That is VERY good info and something no-one has posted before. I had always assumed they were the same because the 144/145 use the same mounting flange pattern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zGman View Post

That being said, plenty of people are happy with the 144's, the combination of color filtering and improved focus makes for a much better picture overall.

i'm pretty sure the 145's come with R+G color filtering as well, although they can come both ways

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post #194 of 203 Old 11-20-2006, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draganm View Post

i'm pretty sure the 145's come with R+G color filtering as well, although they can come both ways

Yes, 145s come both ways. I had a set of CF 145s.

Dave
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post #195 of 203 Old 11-20-2006, 02:43 PM
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I've compared both, and thought that 144's had a slight edge, but only just, and I did it again I may think the reverse.

I have HD-144Ns, HD-145Ns and HD-18s. The AC lenses are slightly sharper, but the image has less clarity due to AC washout.

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post #196 of 203 Old 11-20-2006, 06:27 PM
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Marquee 8500 Ultra with HD-145 lenses



1920x1080p @ 60hz









1920x108p @ 72hz




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post #197 of 203 Old 11-20-2006, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draganm View Post

you're right, this does sound like a stupid question round objects can not be "thinner" unless your slicing Balogney. However all 144/145 lenses are smaller diameter than HD8's This is why people are making expensive adapter plates.

This is also good english lesson... I remember that i called first that those 144/145 are thinner... Good to learn something new
Those pictures are really good.. So im gonna keep my hd-145 lenses if i gonna have someday 8"em projector
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post #198 of 203 Old 11-21-2006, 09:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Nice to see that the benefits of converting the HD8 PJ's to the 144/145's are still of interest to the folks here.
I can tell you that gZman his done a LOT of work in this area and that the changes produced are pretty obvious.

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post #199 of 203 Old 11-21-2006, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1031 View Post

This is also good english lesson... I remember that i called first that those 144/145 are thinner... Good to learn something new
Those pictures are really good.. So im gonna keep my hd-145 lenses if i gonna have someday 8"em projector

no reason to wait,an 8" EM machine with nice tubes is the same price as an average DLP, and so much better. The 8500 is so upgradeable that it can actually be fun to improve it, not much you can do to a 1031 though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuchuf View Post

Nice to see that the benefits of converting the HD8 PJ's to the 144/145's are still of interest to the folks here.
I can tell you that gZman his done a LOT of work in this area and that the changes produced are pretty obvious.
Terry

oh we're always interested, it's just that this has always been a rather complex and expensive process. First, it required sending your lenses and mounting plates to a guy to machine custom plastic spacers and press fit it all together = big PITA and not cheap
Then, someone machined and a completely new mounting plate out of 1/2" thick ALum. This is great but Alum. prices have gone through the roof. I don't recall what the originl price on these was but as a machinist I would estimate that will material/manuf. costs a set of these plates would be in the $500. range minimum
finally, I see from the pics that Rolf Hult posted a VERY nice solution of machined ALum. rings that bolt into the original mounting plates. This is a very nice, neat, and efficent solution. I could see these rings being mass produced for an affordable price. Not sure who makes them though or how much they're charging?

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post #200 of 203 Old 11-21-2006, 07:43 PM
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More at 1920x1080p @ 72hz










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post #201 of 203 Old 03-18-2007, 10:28 AM
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Ok, I got my 144s. I had a number of alternatives for mounting:
1) Joustmounts - $219
2) Aluminum machined sleeves - $240 approx.
3) TAP Plastics rings $220
4) TAP Plastics Joust knockoffs in acrylic ~$85
5) PVC Pipe ~$25
6) MDF cut rings ~$7

The requirements for mounting seemed much easier to understand once I had the lenses in hand and could see the problems directly. I was struck by what was a problem that should have a clever and easy solution. After going through a bunch of alternatives listed above, and reading what really elegant solutions others did, I was determined to come up with something simple, cheap and easy.

So, I went to the internet and researched PVC pipe standards. I found that Schedule 40 PVC 5" pipe (5.016" ID 5.56 OD) was amazingly close to what I neededfor a barrel that extended the full length of what had been the original mounting sleeve. I really needed about 4.87" ID and 5.43" OD (approximations). I was SO CLOSE. Then it hit me. Run a blade cut or two the length of the tube and it compresses down to very close to the right size. If the tube had a wall about 1/16" thicker it would be spot on. I think I will make that up with plumbers heavy tape between the lense barrel and the PVC.

The front of the lens mount for HD-8s is wider than the rear by about 1/2". To fill that gap I bought a Schedule 40 5" PVC pipe coupler and sliced off 3/4" rings. This also needed further mods. You slice about 3/8" out of the ring and compress it to fit around the smaller diameter PVC barrel. This material came with raised lines on the outside that had to be filed down to fit.

That brings me to the current state of the project. I placed the lenses in the 1208s/2 last night. Since I did not have the plumbers tape on the rear end and there was a lot of give. I was able to do the full set up but that brings us to the next challenge, the screw stays that hold the lenses in the lens mounts.

Here is my plan for today. The lens screws for these lenses have self tapping screws that work well in plastic. I am going to drill out the PVC pipe to accept these screws. I will mount the lenses with plumbers tape to solidify things. Once it is dark I will try the critical lens focus tasks and see how well the screws hold. The alternative would be to look for tubular washers that match the width of the lens screws and use the original holes. I really don't want to do that.

I will upload pics when I get a chance. Warning: They are NOT pretty. I don't have the proper tools to do the perfectionist job others have shown here. Cutting PVC with a Skillsaw is not very precise. I highly reccomend a band saw to get really clean cuts. Also, the PVC pipe looks dirty. I washed it but stuff gets in deep to the material. So the cuts are rough (though not critical). The most iportant thing is that it works, is easy to do and cheap.

Supplies: 5" PVC is is VERY hard to find unless you know where to look. Everyone stocks 4" and 6". It turns out that 5" is a standard for well casings. Find someone who does wells and you will find the pipe. If you are lucky they will give/sell you 18" so you don't have to buy 20'. The price is usually about $5/ft. The coupling cost me $18.

Some don't like this approach because they lose the mounts for the HD-8s. This means you can't seel them on eBay. Well, many have been trying to sell HD-8s on eBay with no takers. Who wants them? If anyone is going to want them is will be to replace scratched lenses. It is actually easier to sell them without mounts and have them just remove the adjustment screws on the set that is mounted, than remove the 4 hex screws on the mount. So someone can STILL sell them on eBay if you really think there might be a taker.....not likely....it is a market flooded with HD-8 lenses made orphans by HD-144/5 conversions.



NEW!
Well here are the first pics. The original plan had two narrow rings, one 1X and one 2X thickness. I modified that to be a 1X thick sleeve just shy of the original HD-144 mount length (~4.3") with a 3/4" collar made from the 5" PVC coupler. I realised a couple of problems wit that. Mounting the lens set bolts, they need to be just under the surface of the lens mount slot to function and there would be more stability if the thick section ran deeper into the space. So, I recut another section of the couple ~ 1.75" wide.

Fitting brought new headaches of course. The HD-8 mount narrows slightly inside as you get deeper. The lens is widest at the front. This made for an excessively tight fit for a piece that is intended to slide. So I sanded the inner ring near the widest area which helped. I need to do more of that. I want to see how the blue lens focuses tonight. Last night I had problems with it and with the image on the tube. I thought it might be fungus but on inspection it looks really clean. So either the EM focus is off or I need to be really careful with the physical focus.

I have to buy another coupler to make two more wide rings (~1.75") since I used up a lot of the couple already making the 3/4" rings. These should fit better anyway since there is tapering on the coupler that is exacerbating the problem with the fit.

I plan to paint the edges black and probably use plumbers tape between the lens barrel and the inner sleeve to close any clearance issues. I will need to sand a bit more to make rotational travel easier for the main focus.

I said in my first post that it wasn't going to be pretty. If I had a band saw I could make much nicer cuts on the PVC. A belt sander or grinding wheel would have made cleaning the ribs off the outside a lot easier. But it is what is is so far.
LL
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post #202 of 203 Old 12-06-2008, 04:07 PM
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hi guys nice work but here is the beginning of my solution for the mounting problem.





a hd145 plus joust adaptor next to a hd8 mount.
As you can see, they both slide the same distance into the projector.







Nice to know but how can we benefit from this?

If you have a lot of spare's you can experiment so why not glue both parts together?
After the operation the HD8 mount is not usable anymore for hd8 lenses.
The HD144/145 lensmount wil not fit into a joust or 7 inch projector.
In other words the process is inreversable.

what do you need?:

first of all a set of hd8 mounts



You also need a set of these, HD144 or HD145 mounts.



As you can see on the picture these mounts are used on joustmounts.

First I took the hd8 mounts and a saw.
The focus slots had to go to make place for the focus slots as used on the hd145/144 mounts.

I used an normal saw as used in the movie saw
If you aim along the bracing of the HD8 mount you will get a pretty straight cut.








cutting from top to bottem is easy, but cutting hoizontally is much more diff.

My solution: this



It cuts like butter









And if you have a deadline:



Not yet finished but almost there.



Next, the hd144/145 mounts:

At this point they will not fit into the hd8 mounts, the bracing is too wide.
I needed 34 MM (millimeters) of free space.
This number is not critical but works.
You can cut more if you like but it is 3.4 cm is enough.
By the way be sure you do not damage the bottem of both lens mounts, you will need an undamaged flat surface.

approx 34 MM



I used masking tape as a guide.






















Now you can put the hd144/145 mounts intoo the hd8 mounts.

It is not a thight fit and there is a major gap between both mounts.






This gap wil be filled with a resin, but i am still waiting for that soo:

To be continued.................


link to the duch tread

http://www.htforum.nl/yabbse/index.php?topic=65529.150

greetz Bart.

ok ok LCD is fun, but CRT is more fun
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post #203 of 203 Old 12-06-2008, 04:35 PM
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oops ,, posted twice

ok ok LCD is fun, but CRT is more fun
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