Barco Streaking Survey - Page 7 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #181 of 276 Old 01-03-2006, 07:32 AM
 
Z-Photo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Huntsville - Alabama
Posts: 3,000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Does anyone have a streaking BG 808 (non s)???

and could loan/trade their SMPS for one from a non-streaking BG 808????

I have an interesting proposition for you....

Pete
Z-Photo is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #182 of 276 Old 01-03-2006, 09:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Mastiff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Akland, Norway - on the frozen tundra
Posts: 1,858
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well, mine streaks when left blanking is close to the left edge of the image, but you already know that.

i7@ 3.6 - ATI 3870HD - Windows 7 64 bit - FFDShow with dScaler sharpen, AVISynth and Lancoz resize to BG808 with HD-144 lenses
Mastiff is offline  
post #183 of 276 Old 01-03-2006, 04:22 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Tully's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bolton, Ontario Canada
Posts: 464
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthZ View Post

Does anyone have a streaking BG 808 (non s)???

and could loan/trade their SMPS for one from a non-streaking BG 808????

I have an interesting proposition for you....

Pete

Hey Pete that sounds like a great Idea. how could we do this ??

Regards John
Tully is offline  
post #184 of 276 Old 01-03-2006, 04:50 PM
 
Z-Photo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Huntsville - Alabama
Posts: 3,000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have a couple of spare 808 SMPS (soon to be 3 more) but I do not have a streaking 808 projector.

If it is a power issue I was hoping to provide Mike Parker with both a "streaking" SMPS and a non-streaking SMPS.

PM your address and I can ship one out to you...

Pete
Z-Photo is offline  
post #185 of 276 Old 01-03-2006, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Tully's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bolton, Ontario Canada
Posts: 464
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Tully is offline  
post #186 of 276 Old 01-05-2006, 07:20 AM
Member
 
trinitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Germany
Posts: 53
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi,

I have a BG 808 with no streaking - however when playing around with higher resolutions from the Momitsu 808DX I noted some 'black' streaking (i.e. black object surrounded by darker gray background). Because I was running over the 75 Mhz bandwidth I decided to try a lower horizontal resolution and the effect was gone.

I'm now using 1280x864 @ 50 Hz (PAL country) instead of 1440x864

Maybe this can help ...

cheers, trinitron |||
trinitron is offline  
post #187 of 276 Old 01-19-2006, 10:36 PM
Senior Member
 
JaniH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Finland
Posts: 388
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
-94 June BD801s, 11800 hours, absolutely no streaking.
JaniH is offline  
post #188 of 276 Old 01-20-2006, 10:24 AM
kal
AVS Special Member
 
kal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 7,245
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 33
BG800: 1990, 25000 hours. No streaking ever.
Zenith Pro 1200x (aka Cine8 Onyx clone): 2001, 150 hours. no streaking.

I'm surprised people are still trying to figure out why streaking happens... the reasons have been posted a couple of times now on this and another forums. Here's my cut & paste:


*******************************************
What you are seeing is most likely luminescence peaking, a light streak running to the right of a light object on a darker background. A dark grey rather than black background looks the worst. Early 808 suffered quite badly from this but it was fixed on later ones. The fix relates to the tube backend boards mainly and later the FET on the RGB amps. You need R7621736 RGB amps with black FET's and the later backend boards to more or less eliminate the problem. R7621735 RGB amps with black FET's may also reduce the problem. Parts from a late 1998 projector and up should be correct.
Be sure G2 voltages are correct, excessive voltages will make the problem worse. Only adjust with the projector fully warmed up. If the tubes are a little tired you may have to run G2 voltages up to the point were it highlights the peaking problem.
Also make sure you are running V7.31 or V7.41 software as some timing parameters were changed. Go to Service and highlight Information then press enter to check software version. V7.31 and V7.41 are identical except V7.41 is the Iris 3 upgrade. Both have the small text menus and memory bank system

Pasted from
*******************************************


And said slightly differently:


*******************************************
OK I think I can explain this guy's, the problem you are seeing is called luminescence peaking, this is not a problem on the Panasonic tubes but is in fact due to the RGB amps fitted to the data models.
If you notice, the BG 808s does not have this problem, but its not because of the sony tubes its the RGB amp.
The high Bandwidth amp (the integeral one with the big heat sink) is the fix, Barco went over to the Panasonic tube because its beam spot size is 15% (they used the % not I) smaller, in fact many of the simulator units and those supplied to the likes of SEOS had Panny tubes as standard.(with the High spec amp)
So in a perfect world, you need the Panasonic tube (fitted to 808s data) but with the High bandwidth RGB amp (fitted to the Graphics with sony tubes), Henry and I performed this very task for two customers on this forum,one of which is 'GODFATHER' who would no doubt like to tell of the results in his own words.(i think he's in france at the mo)
The other thing with the panny tube is because of its physical shape, you can use more tube face than the Sony tube.
Tis true barco were not aware of all of this, I can remember us having it rear its ugly head a number of years ago on some 708 visions, Barco worked closely with us on this one but to no avail, again its down to the RGB amp (back end board).
Barco went over to the Panny tube on the 'Black range' 808 so everyone automatically got the good 'cocktail version'.
Paul, not sure but thought Mike only modded the Marquee Amps (neck boards) from the earlier Marquee, up to the ultra spec neck boards however you may be correct, he could well be doing barco mods.
Remember Barco's units were not designed for home movies, it was mostly sim and presentation where that problem probably never happened.
ps paul dropped you pm recently?........
James

Pasted from
*******************************************
kal is offline  
post #189 of 276 Old 01-29-2006, 07:36 AM
Ile
Advanced Member
 
Ile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland
Posts: 743
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I upgraded my R7621735 RGB amps (with black FET) to R7621736, there is only two components added. No any effect to streaking level.

I also tested my backend boards in JaniH's non streaking BD801s, no streaking.
JaniH's BD801s have older type non abl and no smd R762173 rgb amps, those use same VPH-06 chip. So problem seem to related to abl system or poorly builded smd board...

Do anybody have R762173 rgb amp schematics from Barco 801 service manual?

I'm interested about it, so I can test downgrading my rgb amps.
Ile is offline  
post #190 of 276 Old 01-29-2006, 09:07 AM
 
Z-Photo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Huntsville - Alabama
Posts: 3,000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The Mike Parker Barco test mule (BG 808) will be delivered to him this Sat/Sun.

I am also providing a number of other components ( BG 808(S) RGB/CPU/Neckboard) along with the non S boards.

Maybe if people PM the heck out of him and offer to prepay for Barco fixes he will put it to the top of the list and forget about those marquees and sony things.

Well one can wish.

I am just glad that he is willing to take his time and look at the Barco PJs. (and the fact I have a lot of "spares")

Pete
Z-Photo is offline  
post #191 of 276 Old 01-29-2006, 09:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jtnfoley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,438
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ile View Post

I upgraded my R7621735 RGB amps (with black FET) to R7621736, there is only two components added. No any effect to streaking level.

I also tested my backend boards in JaniH's non streaking BD801s, no streaking.
JaniH's BD801s have older type non abl and no smd R762173 rgb amps, those use same VPH-06 chip. So problem seem to related to abl system or poorly builded smd board...

Do anybody have R762173 rgb amp schematics from Barco 801 service manual?

I'm interested about it, so I can test downgrading my rgb amps.

I've got the 761750 PDF if there's any interest.

I enjoy mowing my lawn. It's the only two hours of my week where I know what's expected, understand the job, can forsee completion, and look back and see progress.
jtnfoley is offline  
post #192 of 276 Old 01-29-2006, 09:20 AM
AVS Special Member
 
techman707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Florida & New York
Posts: 9,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthZ View Post

The Mike Parker Barco test mule (BG 808) will be delivered to him this Sat/Sun.

I am also providing a number of other components ( BG 808(S) RGB/CPU/Neckboard) along with the non S boards.

Maybe if people PM the heck out of him and offer to prepay for Barco fixes he will put it to the top of the list and forget about those marquees and sony things.

Well one can wish.

I am just glad that he is willing to take his time and look at the Barco PJs. (and the fact I have a lot of "spares")

Pete

That should be very interesting. What shape are the tubes in the unit you sent to him?

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Ghandi
techman707 is offline  
post #193 of 276 Old 01-29-2006, 11:36 AM
 
Z-Photo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Huntsville - Alabama
Posts: 3,000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The green is mint (9) the red also (8.5) the blue has some uneven wear (6-7).

Other than the new P16 and mint PT18 the second best set I got.

Only the best for MP...
Z-Photo is offline  
post #194 of 276 Old 01-29-2006, 12:41 PM
Ile
Advanced Member
 
Ile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland
Posts: 743
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtnfoley View Post

I've got the 761750 PDF if there's any interest.

I already have 761750 pdf and it don't use VPH06 chip...
Ile is offline  
post #195 of 276 Old 01-29-2006, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Tully's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bolton, Ontario Canada
Posts: 464
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hey Pete did you get that SMPS out to me, I can send mine right to Mike ?

Regards John
Tully is offline  
post #196 of 276 Old 01-29-2006, 03:38 PM
 
Z-Photo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Huntsville - Alabama
Posts: 3,000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
John,

No I just got back from TDY - the last few weeks have been carzy busy.

I think right now lets just wait until mike has a chance to give it the once over. I was also thinking about possible exchanging a two pice neckboard.

One thing of note

Barco Graphics 808 (non s) two piece neckboard uses VPH06
Barco retro graphics (one piece neckboard) uses VPJ08
Barco graphics 1208s/2 (one piece neckboard) uses VPH08

Not sure why the chance between the 1208 and 808
Z-Photo is offline  
post #197 of 276 Old 01-29-2006, 04:00 PM
Newbie
 
Crteaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi Guys,

The streaking comes from the neckboards (we call em RGB amps) the 's' models should 'NOT' display this, you will find it actually occurs at a fairly limited IRE band of around 30IRE, not in a total black scene.

Its worse with say a bright object i.e a burning torch or street lamp on left side of screen and will streak accross entire screen in a narrow band.

Thus on sony tubed models 'S' derivative, it should not show because of the fitment of the high bandwidth RGB amps.

I do of course prefer the Panny tube, you can use more tube face on this and there is a trick to combine the best of both worlds, a High Bandwidth amp on a panny tube no less.....

Terry, just been to set up and calibrate a 9500 you sold to a guy in Slovenia, around 18 months+ ago do you remember it? (damn it was cold there, but oh so lovely)

James
Crteaman is offline  
post #198 of 276 Old 01-29-2006, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Tully's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bolton, Ontario Canada
Posts: 464
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Mine has the two piece neck board of course, have you seen any streaking on the one piece neck boards Pete.?

I wonder if you can rtrofit the two piece neckboards from a retro into a Bg 808 non s unit , HMMM do you think?

Hey how is the barkenstein working, have you got a good image on one of those yet? And of course the big question......did it streak ?

Regards John.



Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthZ View Post

John,

No I just got back from TDY - the last few weeks have been carzy busy.

I think right now lets just wait until mike has a chance to give it the once over. I was also thinking about possible exchanging a two pice neckboard.

One thing of note

Barco Graphics 808 (non s) two piece neckboard uses VPH06
Barco retro graphics (one piece neckboard) uses VPJ08
Barco graphics 1208s/2 (one piece neckboard) uses VPH08

Not sure why the chance between the 1208 and 808

Tully is offline  
post #199 of 276 Old 01-30-2006, 01:52 AM
 
Z-Photo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Huntsville - Alabama
Posts: 3,000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have yet to get a streaking Barco. Must be the karma thing.

The mint P16 will be replaced by a worn PT18 due to the fact the P16 has an arc issue.

I will be sending it to VDC to get the HV lead replaced - that better solves its little arc issue or it is going to get the hammer.

Oh well - at least the LC harware on the barco LC tubes is easier to get off than the Ampro crap.

Pete
Z-Photo is offline  
post #200 of 276 Old 01-30-2006, 06:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
techman707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Florida & New York
Posts: 9,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthZ View Post

I have yet to get a streaking Barco. Must be the karma thing.

The mint P16 will be replaced by a worn PT18 due to the fact the P16 has an arc issue.

I will be sending it to VDC to get the HV lead replaced - that better solves its little arc issue or it is going to get the hammer.

Oh well - at least the LC harware on the barco LC tubes is easier to get off than the Ampro crap.

Pete

I've never had a streaking one either, this thread has been around a long time.

VDC is just the place to fix an arcing HV lead on a tube.

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Ghandi
techman707 is offline  
post #201 of 276 Old 01-30-2006, 07:36 AM
 
Z-Photo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Huntsville - Alabama
Posts: 3,000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Bruce - I know you love their craftmanship on HV lead.

when in doubt add more silicone.

It almost got the hammer last night - but I counted to ten (after unplugging the PJ) and decided to give it one last chance.
Z-Photo is offline  
post #202 of 276 Old 01-30-2006, 07:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
techman707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Florida & New York
Posts: 9,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthZ View Post

Bruce - I know you love their craftmanship on HV lead.

when in doubt add more silicone.

It almost got the hammer last night - but I counted to ten (after unplugging the PJ) and decided to give it one last chance.

The truth is, you really need very little silicone, but, they make such a mess, you can't see what's going on. If they would use the clear protection tubing over the HV lead, there would be much less trouble. I'll bet the lead on the tube now has no protection tubing and probably has an invisible nick somewhere. I've had very good luck doing it myself, but have had a lot of problems with VDC's work.

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Ghandi
techman707 is offline  
post #203 of 276 Old 01-30-2006, 07:57 AM
 
Z-Photo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Huntsville - Alabama
Posts: 3,000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
This one actually has the clear cover - it was orginally out of a dead 3600 ampro (like there is any other kind).

The cap still looks OEM - very clean with only the bottom having the clear silicone.

It could use a longer HV wire anyway. I would do more trial and error but that was my last spare h-shift/focus board.

Pete
Z-Photo is offline  
post #204 of 276 Old 01-30-2006, 08:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
techman707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Florida & New York
Posts: 9,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthZ View Post

I would do more trial and error but that was my last spare h-shift/focus board.

Pete

Did the arcing damage other shift/focus boards?

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Ghandi
techman707 is offline  
post #205 of 276 Old 01-30-2006, 08:19 AM
 
Z-Photo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Huntsville - Alabama
Posts: 3,000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It has toasted two shift/focus boards so far.
I have not yet checked which one went last night. I was pissed off enough already.

If it was not

1) green
2) P16
3) mint mint mint

it would already be in a million pieces.

I even sent this to tinman to check it on his sencore - all was fine internal.

Help me VDC your my only hope....
repeat

Pete
Z-Photo is offline  
post #206 of 276 Old 01-30-2006, 08:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
techman707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Florida & New York
Posts: 9,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthZ View Post

It has toasted two shift/focus boards so far.
I have not yet checked which one went last night. I was pissed off enough already.

If it was not

1) green
2) P16
3) mint mint mint

it would already be in a million pieces.

I even sent this to tinman to check it on his sencore - all was fine internal.

Help me VDC your my only hope....
repeat

Pete

Did you change the lead during any of the acring problems?

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Ghandi
techman707 is offline  
post #207 of 276 Old 01-30-2006, 08:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
techman707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Florida & New York
Posts: 9,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
One final question: When you installed the tube in the holder, did the spring grounding fingers have good contact with the "dag" coating on the tube? If the dag isn't good or some idiot washed it off, you will never be able to stop the arcing, since it's not a HV lead problem.

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Ghandi
techman707 is offline  
post #208 of 276 Old 01-30-2006, 08:34 AM
 
Z-Photo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Huntsville - Alabama
Posts: 3,000
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The spring is in good contact - the coating is a little worn in that area (normal spring scrapes) so I added a wraparound style wire to contact with the side coating areas. with that. It could still be the coating and not the lead - at a loss at this point

If someone wants it I would be willing to swap for a another green

I removed one of the green PT18 from the barco LC housing so that I could give Mike a 808 with three tubes (one of each color). At least this was a little easier than the Ampro LC hardware.

Pete

edit - same OEM lead - I stink at changing them out (hack and slash).
Z-Photo is offline  
post #209 of 276 Old 01-30-2006, 08:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
techman707's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Florida & New York
Posts: 9,348
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthZ View Post

The spring is in good contact - the coating is a little worn in that area (normal spring scrapes) so I added a wraparound style wire to contact with the side coating areas. with that. It could still be the coating and not the lead - at a loss at this point

When I think the dag might be bad, I put a strip of the copper tape that's used on the Marquee tubes. The tape and its glue have conducting properties, so I wrap it around to the good dag.

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." -Ghandi
techman707 is offline  
post #210 of 276 Old 03-21-2006, 04:14 PM
Ile
Advanced Member
 
Ile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Jyväskylä, Finland
Posts: 743
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I have tested lot of things lately and most hadn't any effect to streaking level.

But now I finally got some results! Streaking in R7621735 rgb-amp seem to be caused by videopacks feedback loop. I remove that loop and chance many components related to removing. I also totally removed abl and everything related.

My test amp in red seem to work quite well after calibration. Both negative- and positive streaking have almost gone. If I look in tubes and use my imagination and worst case test method, I can barely see some streaking.

Only problem that I have found this far in quick test and calibration is that there is not enough gain control now, because feedback loop aren't boosting signal anymore. It is darn close, but I need to check if I can get +10-15 V somehow...

Need to test amp more later. Now I have to finally go to sleep, it's 02.10 here in Finland and I need to go work in the morning.
Ile is offline  
Reply CRT Projectors

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off