Any news on the MP-5 ? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 263 Old 08-27-2005, 09:43 AM
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I've been using Eric's MP-5 for a few weeks now.

Hooked to my trusty, very well adjusted 8000 with my FrankenYoke modification, at 1080p (NeuNeo DVD player), the image is very filmlike, no scan lines are visible, and yet the image is not soft in the slightest. (My tests with the HTPC suggest that the upper resolution limit of the 8000 with FrankenYokes for scan line resolution is in the range of 850 scan lines, when
squeezed 16:9 anamorphically at the projector. But this is beyond the ability of the HD-8B
lenses to fully resolve at the screen.)

I just finally got my 9501LC mounted and went through a basic setup. This machine has
three brand new tubes and it's a sweet one. Not modded much, basically stock, though.

Seen with the 8000 or the 9501LC, the MP-5 simply stands out as a great piece of gear.
It does so much right that there's no point in complaining about the fact that you will have
to tweak it a little to run right in your system. But that's fine, because most of us don't
mind tweaking a pot or control or two to get THAT picture.



The MP-5 is GREAT. I am saving to buy one of my very own.

I'd just love to see an MP-5B version, built into a card that fits in the Marquee input 2 slot.
That'd be sweet.

Mike, I'm not by any means an expert on how the HDTV component signal with tri-level sync is encoded or decoded. In fact, I know almost nothing about it.
But I imagine that it's a complex affair and the tri-level sync is probably the most challenging
part of the system.

I would not presume to demand or even ask strongly for any product improvements, but
if in the future you can implement an auto-locking system that locks right in on the tri-level sync signal and convert it over so that it runs perfectly on a CRT projector's RGBHV inputs without a glitch, this would be a nice, no, make that VERY nice, feature.

As things are now, I have to adjust the h. phase control on the Marquee and try to figure
out which of the several positions is the one that gives the picture the right contrast to it,
and that seems to give different results on the same picture than when I run it (via DVD)
through a different signal chain like my Faroudja DVP2200.

The tri-level sync issue is a bit problematic. It'd be nice to have a simple solution to it.

But for now...I simply LOVE the MP-5 as it is right now. I'd buy one right away and not
wait for a later version because this one already does the job very, VERY well indeed.


CJ
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post #182 of 263 Old 08-27-2005, 11:24 AM
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CJ great Transcoder isn't it.

You brought up a great question about autosync, I am wondering how my Faroudja NRS transcodes Component to RGBHV does it emlpoy an"autosync" process as thier are no adjustments needed for Horizontal shift or phase control?

Lon
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post #183 of 263 Old 08-27-2005, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmjohnson
As things are now, I have to adjust the h. phase control on the Marquee and try to figure out which of the several positions is the one that gives the picture the right contrast to it, and that seems to give different results on the same picture than when I run it (via DVD) through a different signal chain like my Faroudja DVP2200.
CJ

This should not be a problem at all, unless the phase is not properly adjusted on the MP-5 (see my previous post).

Don't use the phase on the projector, use the phase on the MP-5, but make sure that the phase is centered in the Marquee before adjusting the phase on the MP-5.

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post #184 of 263 Old 08-27-2005, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG
CJ great Transcoder isn't it.

You brought up a great question about autosync, I am wondering how my Faroudja NRS transcodes Component to RGBHV does it emlpoy an"autosync" process as thier are no adjustments needed for Horizontal shift or phase control?

Lon
The MP-5 can be easily configured to work the same way, but you'll not be able to do a precise sync alignment to the projector, and avoid the real pit-falls of tri-level sync, that causes variations in the images from the different input sources.

Once the MP-5 is properly aligned (phased), all input sources to it's BNC's should be spot on.

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post #185 of 263 Old 08-27-2005, 11:48 AM
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Mike:

Makes sense I kind of thought that was the answer, with the MP5 one has the ability to do a precise sync alignment (Spot On) VS autosync alignment close.

So steps are:

1)Set precise sync alignment of MP5 to spot on
2)Adjust image on projectore to center

Lon
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post #186 of 263 Old 08-27-2005, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Works for me :)
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post #187 of 263 Old 09-17-2005, 10:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I hear the MP5 is currently not available and hope this is just temporary but would like to hear from Mike on the Momitsu mod and what he has discovered about this player ? Also when will the MP5 be available ? This is a VERY good transcoder !
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post #188 of 263 Old 09-18-2005, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.W
I hear the MP5 is currently not available and hope this is just temporary but would like to hear from Mike on the Momitsu mod and what he has discovered about this player ? Also when will the MP5 be available ? This is a VERY good transcoder !

Yes, I've stopped taking orders, but this is only temporary. It's availability will resume next month, and by then I'll have a better system in place for it. To include a much quicker ship date. I chose to suspend things until I could get caught up on things, and look at a few suspected bugs on one unit. And to take the time to get this final batch out with no hic-ups. Overall, the unit does perform exceptionally well. And I now seem to have eliminated any sync issues.

The MP-5 has two sync circuits, which further complicates things since one is using that finicky sync processor (EL4511). It's a very complex dual circuit, but when working correctly, it makes for perfect images from the two different switched input sources. This provides for a more precise (calibrated) transcoder to projector alignment, that when aligned correctly initially, it will eliminate any need to have separate adjustments (contrast/brightness) for the two input sources. Yep, they just POP right in at the right levels with neither being darker than the other, or making so that there's no need to increase or decrease the contrast or brightness in the projector for any input source. Absolutely no crushed blacks or whites!!

I've been a bit of a stickler here, but with a switching transcoder, It was important to eliminate the need to have separate projector memories for different 1080I, 720P or 1080P sources.

So far, I've modified a Momitsu DX version for Doug. The unit now has RGBHV BNC's on the rear. The switching chip in the DX has been by-passed, and that makes the the RGB BNC's of the RGBHV connectors also usable for the component out of the unit. So far it's looks better this way. The DX is very similar to the NEO, in that both would need some modifications to perform better.

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post #189 of 263 Old 09-18-2005, 01:18 AM
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I was just noticing CJs comment from last month, which went unchallenged:
> (My tests with the HTPC suggest that the upper resolution limit of the 8000 with FrankenYokes for scan line resolution is in the range of 850 scan lines, when
squeezed 16:9 anamorphically at the projector. But this is beyond the ability of the HD-8B
lenses to fully resolve at the screen.)
<

I'd be very surprised if that were, in fact, true. If it were, then that would imply the resolution on the horizontal axis had a hard limit at <1,500, imposed by the lenses' limitations themselves.

Assuming you're running your rasters large enough to take advantage of a significant portion of the -8Bs aperture, I believe the h-rez limit of the lenses is in excess of 2,000. Vertically, they should resolve beyond 1,000 in a 16:9 configuration.

- Tim

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post #190 of 263 Old 09-18-2005, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi Tim,
I just did a full set up on my 808 with HD8 revision B lenses yesterday then sat down to watch "Sin City"via SDI at 1080p using MJ's SDI>rgbhv converter.Now I know this is really pushing an 8 inch machine but a few inches from the screen I could still see some scan line structure after doing a bit of tweaking on the focus but it was very hard to see !
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post #191 of 263 Old 09-18-2005, 12:02 PM
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My experiments with 1080p and HD8B lenses (Marquee 8000 with some upgrades, and with my Frankenyoke focusing yoke modification) also show that 1080p (anamorphically squeezed) is beyond the
ability of an HD8B lens ot fully resolve. The picture on the CRT faces shows scan lines
that resolve better than can be displayed on the screen due to the limitations of the optics.

HD8Bs are ALMOST good enough for 1080P, but not quite. They're good for something
beyond 720p, and at most, it's 960p.

CJ
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post #192 of 263 Old 09-18-2005, 01:05 PM
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Tom,
> I know this is really pushing an 8 inch machine but a few inches from the screen I could still see some scan line structure after doing a bit of tweaking on the focus <

that's very impressive! Thanks for sharing your real-world experience, at the stratospheric level. :) OTTOMH, I don't recall if your PJ is a BG808, or an 808s? If the former, then the bandwidth of the PJ itself (75 MHz) will limit performance at 1080p, which really needs 100 MHz (or more) to fully resolve. But the fact that any line structure was still visible is pretty neat, and not something that most could tweak out of it.

CJ,
> ...also show that 1080p (anamorphically squeezed) is beyond the ability of an HD8B lens ot fully resolve. The picture on the CRT faces shows scan lines that resolve better than can be displayed on the screen due to the limitations of the optics. <

I'm pretty sure you'd have thought of this, but the first question I'd ask is if your observation of the tube faces was done at full power, and not cranked back to make things more "eyeball friendly"? In that case, more detail will always be observable on the tube face than when driving to illuminate the screen with normal beam currents.

Even if so, resolving there "better than" through the optics still wouldn't mean that 1080 lines wasn't being resolved by the lenses. All they need to be able to meet that spec is to hit a 50% MTF, and with your special yokes you might be seeing the tubes doing better than 50% MTF.

> HD8Bs are ALMOST good enough for 1080P, but not quite. ...at most, it's 960p. <

Thanks! That's quite a bit different from "850 scan lines... is beyond the ability of the HD-8B
lenses to fully resolve at the screen". I appreciate the followup.

- Tim

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post #193 of 263 Old 09-18-2005, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Im not so sure it is quite the lenses per say but the electronics of the 808.The bandwidth of my 808 is far from being what is required for 1080p !
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post #194 of 263 Old 09-18-2005, 01:20 PM
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Bandwidth by itself won't necessarily change how well defined the scan lines are, I'm sure you realize. Bandwidth applies to information written within a given scan line.

And yes, I do realize that resolution is a function of output on a CRT as well. I based my observations on viewing the CRT faces directly at the normal viewing contrast and brightness settings. It's NOT harmful to the eyes, despite what some warnings might say. Dazzling, but not THAT bright.

The light my optometrist used to look into my eyes a few days ago at my last eye evaluation (I'm at risk for glaucoma but have been declared to NOT have the condition, though I am on preventative medication) is much brighter than any CRT's output, but my optometrist says that his exam light can cause thermal burns on the retina only if run at full output and for 45 straight seconds on one point of the eye.

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post #195 of 263 Old 09-18-2005, 01:20 PM
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BTW, I won't argue that the 10 lp/mm at 50% MTF on the HD-8Bs doesn't become an issue for 1080p at 16:9 AR. That's why they upgrade to better lenses at 12 lp/mm on PJs designed for those lofty heights, so the lenses don't become the limiting condition.

- Tim

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post #196 of 263 Old 09-18-2005, 07:26 PM
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Ok, the jury is now in. The three units that where shipped out a week or so ago, were used with different CRT projector models. So far all reports are good :)

This week three more units are going out, and the final batch will now head for final production... :cool:

The EL4511 being finicky is now history ;)

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post #197 of 263 Old 09-18-2005, 07:35 PM
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Uh, you didn't say FINAL batch, did you, Mike?

I'm not ready to buy one...but there's no doubt I want one.

I can make a deposit on one if necessary.

CJ
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post #198 of 263 Old 09-18-2005, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmjohnson
Uh, you didn't say FINAL batch, did you, Mike?

CJ
No, it's not the end of the unit, it's just the final batch from previous orders. It will still be made available, but not until next month.

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post #199 of 263 Old 09-18-2005, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748
So far, I've modified a Momitsu DX version for Doug. The unit now has RGBHV BNC's on the rear. The switching chip in the DX has been by-passed, and that makes the the RGB BNC's of the RGBHV connectors also usable for the component out of the unit. So far it's looks better this way. The DX is very similar to the NEO, in that both would need some modifications to perform better.
Mike. There's a PDF document by Bill Blue. He was describing how to install an MP-1 into the Momitsu. Where he attached the RGB wires he called them "clamping diodes" and "horrible little switcher chip called P15V-330Q". Are these the same chips/location you're talking about?

If so, where do you attached the shielding used for grounding? Bill Blue grounded the MP-1 via a chassis connection.

Are you picking up the H & V signal from the Sigma board just below the DVI output jack?

Here's the link to Bill Blue's document

Bill Blue's PDF

So, you're connecting the Momitsu directly to the PJ via these RGBHV BNCs?

How are you using the BNCs from both RGBHV and component? RGBHV has separate HV signals where component has it's sync on the green, I believe. Hence the need for an MP-5. Never mind. I read a previous post in this thread and found that you can select component through these BNCs via a menu in the Momitsu.

One last question. Are you seeing an improvement in the PQ over using a DVI-I -> VGA adapter to VGA -> RGBHV adapter. Again I read in a previous post in this thread that stated there is no EE on the analog output from DVI.

Aubrey
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post #200 of 263 Old 09-19-2005, 09:32 AM
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To MP and all that may know. I have a BG1209s and the neu neo dvd player. I do not yet have the MP-5. But, Barco makes a sub board for excepting component HDTV on all "s"models except the 801s, using port 4/5 and input 8. I would like to know if I had the sub board for the 1209s, would it except the neu neo and output 1080p or just give 1080i going this way? Not trying to downplay MP-5, but it would be less connections in the video chain, wouldnt it? thanks in advance.
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post #201 of 263 Old 09-19-2005, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi Jammer,
I doubt very very much that it would accept 1080p but surely 1080i . I've never seen or read the specs on one of these . Let us know if you find one . Maybe Curt Palme can answer your question ...
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post #202 of 263 Old 09-24-2005, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jammer
To MP and all that may know. I have a BG1209s and the neu neo dvd player. I do not yet have the MP-5. But, Barco makes a sub board for excepting component HDTV on all "s"models except the 801s, using port 4/5 and input 8. I would like to know if I had the sub board for the 1209s, would it except the neu neo and output 1080p or just give 1080i going this way? Not trying to downplay MP-5, but it would be less connections in the video chain, wouldnt it? thanks in advance.
I'm not aware of a sub board for the Barco that accepts component video. So I can't respond on this.

There's a few (I believe) DVI converters that would fit in the slot of Barco.

On the 8th of next month (October), I'll will have an open house at my new shop. At this function, I will be unvailing some of my latest work. I'm also hoping to have one of the Marquee DVI cards present. You're more than welcome to come by and see how this all looks. This event will start at noon, and we'll wrap up around 5PM.

I also have a Barco 909 at the shop, so If you have a Barco card, bring it with you.

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post #203 of 263 Old 09-30-2005, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi Mike,
Have you made any improvements on the 909 for your get together ?
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post #204 of 263 Old 10-01-2005, 11:39 PM
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Mike I'll be there.

Carlos

"He who dies with the most toys wins". unless its home theater we die broke!!! Let The Games Begin
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post #205 of 263 Old 10-02-2005, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.W
Hi Mike,
Have you made any improvements on the 909 for your get together ?
Not really....at least nothing that would be of a benefit for HT use... well, so far I only get to make the low voltage power supply better. The other boards are just regular repairs, but that'll all change in the near future. I've been off-line the past week or so. We've finally moved back into the house after an almost two year absence. Still there's much more to do, but the main part of the restoration has been done, and it all happened way ahead of the expected time frame.

The real good news is, this particular gathering will be highlighting a very special Marquee 9500LC.. ;) Our special guest came by on last Tuesday. The visit was from the same operation that owns the 909. Though the visit was not Marquee related, a very large part of the discussions were centered around that Marquee 9500/MP. I'm still a little busy with the move, but my goal is to put all three (9500, 909, 1292) on display. I have regular and matrix switchers in my rack, so that should make for a rather good demo if I'm able to get all three up and tweaked in time for this.





Trust me, this Marquee is something to see. And wait until you see what it'll do with 1880x1440/70hz.

Carlos,
Doug H. will be up from Tenn.

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post #206 of 263 Old 10-03-2005, 09:12 AM
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70HZ? Do you mean 72HZ?

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call me at: 240 876 2536
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post #207 of 263 Old 10-03-2005, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748
snip
On the 8th of next month (October), I'll will have an open house at my new shop. At this function, I will be unvailing some of my latest work. I'm also hoping to have one of the Marquee DVI cards present. You're more than welcome to come by and see how this all looks. This event will start at noon, and we'll wrap up around 5PM.
Oh OH ! :( This is conciding with Art's open house.
I'd LOVE to come to see this. Any chance you can do it the next weekend instead?

Otherwise any plans for another meet? I notice you say "shop". So I guess this is a business, right? Does that mean you can give us a demo some other time too?

-Rajiv

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post #208 of 263 Old 10-03-2005, 10:37 AM
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Mike,

You are over your limmit in the PM box...

My wife and I have recently secured a 9501LC that has your finger prints all over it (via Tim in Phx). :D

It is enroute now. Both my wife and I would love to come see what you have up your sleeves for the Marquee now as well as see the shop and visit with you.

Any chance you can make room for two more at the shop? Shoot me a PM with the particulars (time - address - directions from a set point).

Looking forward to it!

Congrats at being back in your house! That has been a long time coming!!!!!

Discovering new ways to show my lack of knowledge daily...
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post #209 of 263 Old 10-03-2005, 01:28 PM
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Mike,
That is very cool , haven't seen him in a while.. Mike do you need me to bring any toys?? let me know or just give me a call.

Carlos

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post #210 of 263 Old 10-03-2005, 01:50 PM
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I you're taking RSVPs, I plan to attend, too.

I can more HD content, too. Even a HD DVR. And 720p/1080i/1080p on my laptop.
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