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post #181 of 313 Old 06-09-2005, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepan
Z-photo, read it all, think hard about it, and your IQ will rise at least by 5 points!
(or fall 20 points?!)
No, he's from 'bama. Ain't got 20 points. ;)

Sorry Pete, just kidding. Was just in your neck of the woods golfing and had a great time with the locals.

Rod
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post #182 of 313 Old 06-09-2005, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 316
I can tell anyone who is interested in knowing if there is a God how to find out for sure.....
Die. Yup its real easy, die and then you will know for sure.
Gotta disagree on this one for the following reasons:
1) Some faiths that believe in an afterlife don't believe in the persistence of self, therefore, if they are right, you won't know.
2) If the answer is "no", than you can't know after dying because you will cease to exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 316
If you live you life believing in God, and you die and there is no God, you lost nothing.
If you live your life not believing in God, and there is a God, you lost it all.
Google for Pascal's Wager. You'll find a bunch about the problems with this.
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post #183 of 313 Old 06-09-2005, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 316
[b]


If you live you life believing in God, and you die and there is no God, you lost nothing.
If you live your life not believing in God, and there is a God, you lost it all.

.
Not really. You go up to him and shake his hand, and tell him you're sorry and offer him a glass of wine.

After all, doesn't God forgive everyone? At least that's what the Christians say.

Frankly, I'd love to chat with him for a bit and find out why more people have been killed fighting over their specific religious beliefs than all other causes of death combined.. Sounds just wrong to me.

(Don't ask me where that stat came from, I read it somewhere once!)

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post #184 of 313 Old 06-09-2005, 04:44 PM
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This thread has really has a lot of potential.....to become the most argumentative, pointless bunch of drivel ever posted on AVS.

The current title holder can be found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=507841
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post #185 of 313 Old 06-09-2005, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme
Not really. You go up to him and shake his hand, and tell him you're sorry and offer him a glass of wine.
Acutally Curt, I think you are supposed to offer him a dead goat.
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post #186 of 313 Old 06-09-2005, 04:55 PM
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Actually, teh line I liked most about religion was from Frank Zappa.

A line in a song goes something like:

" the bible said that God made us to be just like him, so if we're dumb then God is dumb, and a little ugly on the side'"

The song is called 'Dumb All Over' and is off of the 'You are what you Is' album, from about 1981 or so.

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post #187 of 313 Old 06-09-2005, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z-Photo
Sorry-

I was not going to read all of the BS to find out. :p
But it was real fine BS! :D

Bob
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post #188 of 313 Old 06-09-2005, 05:16 PM
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I would like to share with some of you my favorite place on the Internet.

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/index.php

And this in particular...

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=54

It's quite enjoyable.
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post #189 of 313 Old 06-09-2005, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme
After all, doesn't God forgive everyone? At least that's what the Christians say.
Curt
Yes that's what the Christian say Dude but your not reading the fine print - only if your Catholic

I think Curt is going to projector heaven when he dies. Unfortunately it'll all be digitals and his job will be to fix 'em. Digital hell! whoooooaaaaa. Just kidding

Rod
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post #190 of 313 Old 06-09-2005, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertWood
I would like to share with some of you my favorite place on the Internet.

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/index.php

And this in particular...

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=54

It's quite enjoyable.
Robert, that's just scary. I bolted in a heartbeat. Do they ever post OT deep CRT questions? haha

Rod
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post #191 of 313 Old 06-09-2005, 07:12 PM
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Once upon a time there was a person who had a lot of power, and decided to create a system where everyone could "choose" to worship him. But there was a catch. If you did, there would be lots of perks in it for you - if you worshipped him really good - and devoted your whole life to him, everything would be okay! He promised to provide for your needs. But if you didn't, you would be severely tortured. In fact, to even take his name in vain would subject you to the harshest of punishments, and you could serve no master but him. But of course you were said to be able to choose by your own free will, it's up to you to decide. Worship and serve him, or don't and face eternal misery.

Actually, now that I think about it, more than one person set up this kind of system. Kim Jung Ill, Saddam Hussain, Joseph Stalin, etc....
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post #192 of 313 Old 06-09-2005, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onlink
Robert, that's just scary. I bolted in a heartbeat. Do they ever post OT deep CRT questions? haha
I think if you mentioned "CRT" to em, Rod, I feel certain they would think you were talking about Crimean Radical Taosim. :)

But here's one to get you back in. This poor fellow in the United Arab Emirates tried his dead level best to convince em the Quran was the greatest thing since the sliced bread. I'm afraid they chewed up poor old Saeed unmercifully before spittin him out.
But in the process it does provide some real good insight into the mind of a modern Middle Eastern Muslim.

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=122383&page=1
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post #193 of 313 Old 06-09-2005, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertWood
Ok, I thinks I now know what 'drivel' means by virture of susan7566's URL and this one. The e-dictionary should point to those two URLs as reference.
drivel - n. that which man produces when his brain has stalled (see GWB); vrb. to speak of nothing into virtual infinity (George drivelled in his inaugural speech - and others); adj. depicting the aspects of drivel (George you look drivelous in that cowboy outfit).

hmmm 'virtual infinity'. is that possible to achieve? Post that one for me Robert and see what it yields. haha
Quoted by Eddie: "Are you serious Clark?"

Rod
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post #194 of 313 Old 06-09-2005, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme
Actually, teh line I liked most about religion was from Frank Zappa.

A line in a song goes something like:

" the bible said that God made us to be just like him, so if we're dumb then God is dumb, and a little ugly on the side'"

The song is called 'Dumb All Over' and is off of the 'You are what you Is' album, from about 1981 or so.

Curt
Zappa was (and still is) a classic...on the LP "Zoot Allures" he wrote a song titled "the Torture never stops"...I still use that saying a couple times a week to describe life. Because some times "the torture never stops"!
Overnight Sensation was always my favorite Zappa LP.
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post #195 of 313 Old 06-09-2005, 09:12 PM
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Yep, got them all, from 200 Motels (including the VHS tape) and Freak Out to Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowning Witch

Super stuff. You youngsters should buy a CD or two and appreciate him! Get 'Strictly Commercial'. It's sort of a best of collection.

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post #196 of 313 Old 06-09-2005, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertWood
I think if you mentioned "CRT" to em, Rod, I feel certain they would think you were talking about Crimean Radical Taosim. :)

But here's one to get you back in. This poor fellow in the United Arab Emirates tried his dead level best to convince em the Quran was the greatest thing since the sliced bread. I'm afraid they chewed up poor old Saeed unmercifully before spittin him out.
But in the process it does provide some real good insight into the mind of a modern Middle Eastern Muslim.

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.php?t=122383&page=1
Bob now that's amazing...tying atomic weight to religion. That's one I never thought I'd see...or even thought about seeing.
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post #197 of 313 Old 06-09-2005, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme
Yep, got them all, from 200 Motels (including the VHS tape) adn Freak Out to Witch Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowning Witch

Super stuff. You youngsters should buy a CD or two and appreciate him! Get 'Strictly Commercial'. It's sort of a best of collection.

I think that's "Ship arriving to late" :p
I can remember in my younger days, bummin' around the beaches with a couple buddies, and after a few drinks (and whatevers) we'd all qoute Zappa lyrics about the women passing by...aome of his stuff is so funny when applied to everyday life....time to go get some "dirty love"!
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post #198 of 313 Old 06-10-2005, 06:59 AM
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Sounds like like this has turned into a Frank Zappa/Air America thread.... http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung...smiley-014.gif

Mike
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post #199 of 313 Old 06-10-2005, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyG
At least it's all starting to come out...anyone who truly wants to start hearing what's going on in this government just needs to listen to Air America for a couple days...they have a news service that's not afraid of this government, and doesn't tow the party line.

Ahhhhhhhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha..... http://www.htguide.com/forum/images/...on_roflmao.gif

That's the funnyest thing I've read all week!! C'mon Kenny, you're obviously a very intelligent guy; how could you possibly believe that Air America is "a news service that ........ doesn't tow the party line."?! This is, bar none, the most biased, lying, full of BS and twisted fact, media outlet I've ever had the misfortune of hearing. They seem to be in a contest with Michael Moore for the title! They can't keep a listening audience, because after people have listened for a while, they start to realize that they're spouting off half-truths and twisted baloney like crazy. Because of this, they can't turn a profit, are totally dependant on liberal funders to "keep the message going", and are doomed for failure eventually. Because even "rich" liberal people get tired of throwing money out the window eventually (as well they should!).

I'm all for an alternative viewpoint - many of you liberal minded folk in this thread have been very interesting to talk with, but I, personally, have zero interest in a frenetic ideological rampage, much like Air America and Moore. Whew! Please don't bring yourself down to their level Kenny...you're too darn sharp for that. ;)

Mike
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post #200 of 313 Old 06-10-2005, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M NEWMAN
Ahhhhhhhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha..... [img] how could you possibly believe that Air America is "a news service that ........ doesn't tow the party line."?! This is, bar none, the most biased, lying, full of BS and twisted fact, media outlet I've ever had the misfortune of hearing.
You have obviously never seen Fox news or listened to Rush!

Actually, I think his underlying point is valid--the (supposedly liberal) mainstream media has been very easy on W. In fact, so easy on Bush one has to wonder why. Is it because we are supposedly in a "war" and they don't want to call out the commander and chief? Is it because he is such an easy target that if they were to point out ALL of his errors and wrong doings (quite a substantial quantity of these) that they would seem biased?

And frankly, from the tone and content of your posts, I am quite convinced that anything you don't agree with is just simply a "pack of lies." So, there really is no point to discussion here but the entertainment value of it.

OK, let's get back to Zappa.
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post #201 of 313 Old 06-10-2005, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Person99
... so easy on Bush one has to wonder why. Is it because we are supposedly in a "war" and they don't want to call out the commander and chief? Is it because he is such an easy target that if they were to point out ALL of his errors and wrong doings (quite a substantial quantity of these) that they would seem biased....
The best hypothesis I have seen regarding all the media is that they are pro-status-quo. The outlets that lean right, and even those that lean left, rarely *advocate* for real change.

Real change would be a move to Libertarianism or Authoritarianism. The media hover somewhere in middle ground, between Right (conservative/republican) and Left (liberal/democrat).
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post #202 of 313 Old 06-10-2005, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M NEWMAN
frenetic ideological rampage

The Constitution of the United States, for instance, is a marvelous document for self-government by the Christian people. But the minute you turn the document into the hands of non-Christian people and atheistic people they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society. And that's what's been happening.
-- Pat Robertson, The 700 Club television program, December 30, 1981

I think patriotism, love of God, love of country, support of the traditional family. They [Christians] believe it would be good for our country if families were closer together.... I think they feel about them more strongly than others do.
-- Pat Robertson, speaking at a rally in Lansing, Michigan, in 1986, having been asked if there are some issues Christians feel more strongly about that non-Christians

We had lost the fight for the preservation of the white race until God himself intervened in earthly affairs with AIDS to rescue and preserve the white race that he had created.... I praise God all the time for AIDS.
-- J. B. Stoner, "Praise God For AIDS," to the 1994 Aryan Nations Congress

I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good.... Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism.
-- Randall Terry, quoted in The News-Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Indiana, August 16, 1993

I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, "You helped this happen."
-- Rev. Jerry Falwell, blaming civil libertarians, feminists, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001, quoted from John F. Harris, "God Gave U.S. 'What We Deserve,' Falwell Says," The Washington Post (September 14, 2001)
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post #203 of 313 Old 06-10-2005, 09:28 AM
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There you go again RW, taking things out of context ....

;)
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post #204 of 313 Old 06-10-2005, 10:19 AM
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Michael Reagan's nationwide radio call-in program, yesterday evening at about 5:30 PM Central Time:

Caller: "All of us. All the people. All the politicians, Michael, need to understand that our country needs to follow only the laws of Jesus.

Michael Reagan: "Do you think we should mandate that only a Christian can serve in public office?"

Caller: "Yes"

The context? A lot more of the same.
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post #205 of 313 Old 06-10-2005, 10:36 AM
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I'm thinking now that the "Holy Grail" actually has some merit regarding the utter stupidity of mankind (more than we care to admit). Or maybe evolution is just plain stuck.
"A Newt? You don't look like a newt."

"I got betta"

BURN THE WITCH!

note: for those that are scatching your heads, disregard this post and just move on.

Rod
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post #206 of 313 Old 06-10-2005, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Person99
You have obviously never seen Fox news or listened to Rush!

Fox News is NOT, I repeat NOT extreme in one direction or the other. Its the ONLY news program that puts on both sides of the story (liberal and conservative viewpoints). If you can't see that, then I can't help you.

As for Rush, at least he doesn't try to hide the fact that he's a blatant republican. It's all hanging out there for all to see, and he won't try to hide it or make excuses for it. I don't listen to his program, but at least I can respect him for being straight about where he's coming from. Air America type crowds "pretend" they come from an all-knowing position that's not biased. HA! :D

Nice post RW, it shows that idealogical extremism on both sides of the isle can be a very bad thing. I wonder why liberals never see anything extreme on their end and figure any liberal extremism is ok, as long as it suits their agenda. I mean, look at that flake Howard Dean going completely off the deep end every day now. Why don't we hear an outcry from people like Person99 about him...or is it ok to state that you "hate all republicans and think it's impossible for them to earn an "honest" living"?... Back to your quotes, RW, I have no problem with the "keep the family strong" thing. I definitely believe in a strong family unit. I'm a social traditionalist in that sense.

Mike
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post #207 of 313 Old 06-10-2005, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M NEWMAN
Fox News is NOT, I repeat NOT extreme in one direction or the other.
Umm, you are joking right?

Bill O'Reilly interupts, cuts off, and denigrates the liberals while being considerate to the conservatives.

Remember when they found that one shell in Iraq. Here where the positions reported about that:
FoxNews: 'Proof of Iraqi WMD'
CNN: 'It was probably from Iran'

As you recall, Fox was not correct, they just jumped to conclusions to support their position. It is laughable that you do not think they are biased.

What I find most offensive about Rush is not his positions (although many are quite offensive) but that he reduces discourse to a point of ludicrousness. For example, once you call someone a "feminazi", what reasonable discourse can be had about issues (by the way, other than the impact to discourse, even a simpleton should know this is an extremely well known logical fallacy called an ad hominem attack)? Yes, Rush like so many of his ilk are quite an embrassement and extremely detrimental to political discourse in this country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M NEWMAN
I mean, look at that flake Howard Dean going completely off the deep end every day now. Why don't we hear an outcry from people like Person99 about him...or is it ok to state that you "hate all republicans and think it's impossible for them to earn an "honest" living"?
Actually, no topic like this had come up, nor did you ask my opinion of it. But, it is quite interesting to see that you believe you posses incredible mind reading powers.

Dave
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post #208 of 313 Old 06-10-2005, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Person99

Actually, no topic like this had come up, nor did you ask my opinion of it. But, it is quite interesting to see that you believe you posses incredible mind reading powers.

Dave

You're quite the hypocrite, Dave, you've been believing that you posses these same incredible mind reading powers towards me several times in this thread. But thats ok... ;)

The reason I brought it up is that you don't seem very balanced in your arguments. Although I've tried to show agreement where reasonable (like in RW's post regarding extremist conservatives, for ex.), I've noticed that you take the liberal hard line every single time you post with zero effort to show temperment. It's always the same attack mode...and it seems to be a common trait among hard line liberals like yourself. People like H.Dean do no wrong as long as you're of the same mindset, but if you were to back off the extreme end of ideology, he seems pretty far out there. Maybe you don't care for him, maybe you do...I'd be interested to know your thoughts. Sure, my bet is that you really like the guy.... but then that's just my observation based on your posts. I could be wrong though. ;)

Mike
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post #209 of 313 Old 06-10-2005, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M NEWMAN
You're quite the hypocrite, Dave, you've been believing that you posses these same incredible mind reading powers towards me several times in this thread. But thats ok... ;)
Actually, I qualified mine with phrases like "from the tone and content of your posts, I'm convinced..." and even with the obvious hyperbole I said "you seem to".

Quote:
Originally Posted by M NEWMAN
I'd be interested to know your thoughts.
I don't think he was the right man for the job right now. I believe he shares a frustration that many caring progressives share about the state of affairs in this country. We are not happy with what is going on in this country from the removal of our freedoms to the lack of progress in civil liberties to the cuts in VA benefits, to the pandering to the rich and "Christain Right", to...

Unfortunately, I think he articulates this frustration at times inapproriately. I think the quote you gave was obvious hyperbole to underscore some of what goes on over in the other camp. But, I think his position requires a more diplomatic approach to things. I admire some of what he wants to accomplish, but think there are better ways to go about it.

I live in Texas. I saw how the Bush attack machine uses disingenous claims about the opposition to tear them down, frankly, I find it appalling. From the scare tactics they used on the Christians to defeat Ann Richards to the attacks on McCain to the scare tactics of the Republican National Convention--this is one dispicable group of people. So, yes, Dean is sometimes out of line, but I understand his frustration. it is hard to look at this regime and not be very frustrated.

Dave
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post #210 of 313 Old 06-10-2005, 01:19 PM
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The Howard Deans are getting us nowhere. Preaching to the respective choirs isn't the answer. If we're ever to get out of the mess we're in, it's going to require a new voice. Someone who can somehow begin to win the trust of people on both sides of the divide.
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