Ruby: CRT Challenger? (merged threads) - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techman707
Do you think that's just a shading issue with the bulb?
I'm really tempted to open it and see if I can get to the root cause. I wonder if it has something to do with the angle the light is hitting the chips as it almost looks like the kind of pattern that would be expected with a large polar angle for the light where the light in the center hits the chips at 90 degrees and the light at the corners hits at a different angle that causes the chips to think they are doing the right polarization to turn the light off at the corners and aren't. Or it could be a voltage issue. The strangest part is that changing the brightness setting from 32 to 33 will make the upper left corner dimmer on mine, which sure seems like it could be a polarization angle or voltage type issue.

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post #92 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryg
I'm an economist and DLP has to be one of the fastest depreciating peices of electronic equipment I've ever seen.
So a Qualia purchased two months ago at $25,000 is now surpassed and supplanted by a $7500 Ruby. The economist in me says this is right up there !

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post #93 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 11:58 AM
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I have a WM calibrated G90 with 2000 hrs in a light controlled room in a hushbox. The screen is a Stewert Studio Tec 116 diagonal 1.3. The lens is 121 inches froom the screen. I am thinking about replacing the G90 with a new Ruby. Is this a good move?
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post #94 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn
So a Qualia purchased two months ago at $25,000 is now surpassed and supplanted by a $7500 Ruby. The economist in me says this is right up there !
Yeah Tryg's comment was my laugh for the day..

Think he's spent just a bit too long in Mom's basement..

John
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post #95 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 12:03 PM
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Yes,

I'll take the G90 if you don't still need it.

-B
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post #96 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 12:04 PM
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Look at both and decide for yourself. There are plus's and minus's to both. This is not a black and white answer. Both are good units. (Did I really just say that?? :) )

Since you're in the CRT forum, most people in this forum will tell you to stick with the G90.

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post #97 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 12:10 PM
 
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Except those that want a G90. :D
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post #98 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 12:12 PM
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THere are all sort of info in the related forum that might help yourself. This should be a personal choice not an opinion poll.

It is all about quality...that is the picture

JVC & NEC 8" CRT with 106" wide Stewart screen. All NHT speakers driven by Pioneer Elite AVR and bluray

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post #99 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 12:17 PM
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One question: why? If your G90 is wm calibrated, it ought to be about at the peak of its game. Does it drift or otherwise require a lot of attention? Has it given you reliability problems?

If not, I see no reason to ditch it. The G90 is acknowledged as producing one of the finest images available. It will throw at least as good a picture as a Ruby (much better if blacks are important to you), its tubes will last far longer than the Ruby's bulbs, its electronics &etc will probably last a lot longer than the Ruby's and are repairable, etc. It's already happily ensconced in your HT and requires no effort or cost for you to continue enjoying it. Whereas the Ruby requires you to buy a $10k box (plus $$bulbs$$), rip out and sell the G90, etc.

Unless you have incurable gotta-have-the-latest-gimmick-itis, or you have some particular reason why the Ruby will meet your needs better than the G90, I think you'd be crazy to dump a G90. If you were building a new HT and considering the pros and cons, then a Ruby would be a better contender. But to rip out the G90 when it's already about as good as it gets, that doesn't make much sense to me.
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post #100 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthZ
Except those that want a G90. :D
Yeah, I'm waiting for the fool that wants to dump his Cine 9 for an inferior product so I can score! ;)
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post #101 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 12:50 PM
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Gary, You make a lot of good points. I think I will probably just keep it for now.
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post #102 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 12:55 PM
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Dern, that almost worked.
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post #103 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 01:20 PM
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I think that's smart, RCLad. You can remember me when you finally do decide to replace the G90 with the newest-greatest digital box. Just rip out that G90 and send it my way -- it'll be worth less by then than what I just saved you. :)
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post #104 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 02:07 PM
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I moved to CRT for its black level and because of the depreciation endemic to digital. My 9" CRT cost me less than the depreciation I would have taken if I had purchased a Qualia a year ago or even 3 months ago. Art is right on the money. It is the depreciation of digital that gives one pause - I took a 90% loss on my first digital pj I am embarrassed to say, and I know there are lots of people out there you never hear from who have taken some serious hits when it comes to digital depreciation. This forum (more applicable to the digital sections) is about marketing projectors, not particularly about value and when and how to purchase.

The Ruby is single handedly going to kill the market value of all other digital pjs that came before it and most particularly the expensive ones. I don't think it will have much effect on the $2,000 to $4,000 CRT market since someone buying a CRT for $3,000.00 isn't in the market for a $10,000.00 projector anyway, however, they may be interested in Darin's Sharp 11000 for $2,500.00 - so maybe the Ruby will hurt the lower end of the CRT market!

Cheers,

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post #105 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 02:14 PM
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Grant,
I don't know about that. It started out at around $10k before it was shipping. It was then supposed to be streeting for around $8k to $9k in December. Now, Art says $7500. At this rate, it will be $3k by the summer.:) A $3k Ruby might actually hurt the CRT market after all.:)

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post #106 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn
So a Qualia purchased two months ago at $25,000 is now surpassed and supplanted by a $7500 Ruby. The economist in me says this is right up there !

two different products ;)

We all knew the Qualia is a signature piece. not really fair to assess.

The Ruby on the other hand...I'm pretty confident they'll still get ~$7500 for a used Ruby in 6 months.
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post #107 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 02:28 PM
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I am getting more for 9 inch projectors this year than ever before.

The best attempts at making a Digital PJ "like a CRT" but the engineers have not done it and they never will be the same. CRT has a look that only a CRT can produce so folks just give up and buy a good crt!

The Qualita 004 is OK in Film mode but I have seen what it does to the brightness and the Ruby is only like 800 lumens with a dimmer bulb. No wonder why Sony Refuses to release the brightness ratings??

So its like a Barco 800?

I have heard the auto iris for contrast is funky too. I have never seen a Ruby but I have seen quite a few Qualta 04 and the picture just was lacking in punch and dynamic realism. So if a Ruby is worse than a Qualita 04 then the Ruby will look eq to Electrohome 8000.

So back again you go to CRT for the best and you simply can’t make a 9 inch too cheap because they are so expensive to purchase used $3000-4000. Then put new tubes in it at 3k plus 1000 each a tube + other parts + color correction. You are up too close to 7-8k already. So its just not possible to drop the price. If the price drops anymore then you have to just stop selling them as there is no profit left from the 20+ hours of aligning etc.

I just sold a couple of 1209 for over 9 k and they sold very quick. Look at LP sales have doubled recently because they still sound better than the best Digital CD’s. So CRTs will never die out totaly and the prices cant drop that much because the parts are so expensive and it doesn’t look like VDC will sell a new 9 inch tube for less than 1000. People still buy Tube amps for $$$ and sales are good.

Greg

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post #108 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MC Maniac
Yeah Tryg's comment was my laugh for the day..

Think he's spent just a bit too long in Mom's basement..
I moved out of mom's basement in 1993 when I bought my first digital and started going on dates
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post #109 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geisemann
The Qualita 004 is OK in Film mode but I have seen what it does to the brightness and the Ruby is only like 800 lumens with a dimmer bulb. No wonder why Sony Refuses to release the brightness ratings??

So its like a Barco 800?

Greg
You are confusing ANSI Lumens with lumens measured at typically 10% image ( CRT spec lumens)

A G90, one of the brightest CRTs is speced at 350 ANSI Lumens/1,300 lumens. A Barco 800 is likely ~ 100 ANSI Lumens

A Q04 varies from ~1,600 to 600 ANSI Lumens, depending on IRIS position
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post #110 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geisemann
The Qualita 004 is OK in Film mode but I have seen what it does to the brightness and the Ruby is only like 800 lumens with a dimmer bulb. No wonder why Sony Refuses to release the brightness ratings??
This is one is rather amusing. Looks like you are stuck on "peak lumens" that CRT manufacturers like to push. Do you calibrate to the peak lumens?

Reports are that the Ruby is brighter than the Qualia 004 when that one has the iris closed (I assume that is what you meant by film mode). I'm using filters with my Ruby because out of the box I was getting about 35 ft-lamberts across the whole screen (not just the center) off my 128" wide High Power screen to my viewing position.

--Darin

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post #111 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 02:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2
Based partially on your viewing mix with that older stuff, my guess is that you will be better off with one of the 9" CRTs than the Ruby. The Ruby is more like the Qualia than CRTs or the HD2K as far as showing what is in the sources, including noise. With lower quality sources I think the CRTs would have this advantage. One of the processors with noise reduction might help, but still my bet is that the G90 or other 9" CRT still have the advantage as far as noise in sources. With D-Theater and the upcoming HD-DVD and BluRay these issues are different, but it sounds like you will be sticking with a lot of LD and DVD stuff.

There are issues like how big a screen you want, uniformity on the screen, colors, and stuff like that which means that people need to choose what things are important to them, but I think the CRT would be a better choice in your case unless there is some factor I don't know about.

The absolute black levels should also be much better with a G90, although this advantage would probably be biggest with one of the low level gamma correcting methods people around here discuss with the CRT. The on/off CR of the Ruby I got is not as good as I expected because the CR is better in the center of the screen than at the edges and so I don't just count just the center on/off CR.

I still need to calibrate it and do more testing, but those are my impressions for you so far.

--Darin

Well, you hit the nail there Darin. The two things I love with CRT is the "softer" image and the black level. I still think I will prefer a G90 over the Ruby, but my room is rather small and it is also a regular living room, so from that point of view, I was looking for a smaller digital than maybe will not give up too much on the black level issue. But the new reports about the lighter edges do not sound good at all. Keep us updated about that

/Mattias

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post #112 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu
I moved to CRT for its black level and because of the depreciation endemic to digital. My 9" CRT cost me less than the depreciation I would have taken if I had purchased a Qualia a year ago or even 3 months ago. Art is right on the money. It is the depreciation of digital that gives one pause - I took a 90% loss on my first digital pj I am embarrassed to say, and I know there are lots of people out there you never hear from who have taken some serious hits when it comes to digital depreciation. This forum (more applicable to the digital sections) is about marketing projectors, not particularly about value and when and how to purchase.
A friend of mine has flipped his digital each year for the next new hot DLP - Sharp, then Benq, then Optima - EACH flip cost him more than I paid for my 1292..

Quote:
The Ruby is single handedly going to kill the market value of all other digital pjs that came before it and most particularly the expensive ones. I don't think it will have much effect on the $2,000 to $4,000 CRT market since someone buying a CRT for $3,000.00 isn't in the market for a $10,000.00 projector anyway, however, they may be interested in Darin's Sharp 11000 for $2,500.00 - so maybe the Ruby will hurt the lower end of the CRT market!
The fact that the Ruby does 1080P, coupled with the day we are able to buy 1080P blu ray discs will kill CRT prices for any CRT that cannot resolve 1080P - this despite the fact that bluray will look outstanding on an 8" CRT - no one will want a CRT that can only do 720P..

John
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post #113 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryg
I moved out of mom's basement in 1993 when I bought my first digital and started going on dates
If your dates were anything like a digital back in 93, then both were good from a far, far from good..

You can have the last reply...your first basement mom thread got deleted and I don't want this one to suffer a similar fate..

John
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post #114 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MC Maniac
. . . .
The fact that the Ruby does 1080P, coupled with the day we are able to buy 1080P blu ray discs will kill CRT prices for any CRT that cannot resolve 1080P - this despite the fact that bluray will look outstanding on an 8" CRT - no one will want a CRT that can only do 720P..
Are you sure about 1080P???? I have seen press releases from the HD-DVD side saying that initially only 1080i would be supported and to the best of my knowledge, Blu-Ray has been silent on this.

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post #115 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 03:58 PM
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Either Clarence is warming up to my basement talk, or he's out shopping for a Ruby ;)
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post #116 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GEBrown
Are you sure about 1080P???? I have seen press releases from the HD-DVD side saying that initially only 1080i would be supported and to the best of my knowledge, Blu-Ray has been silent on this.
100% of "1080i" film transfers will contain all the information needed for true 1080p24 playback.

Film is a 24 frame per second progressive source. We get it into 60 field per second interlaced video using 3:2 pull down. We can undo the encoding on play back with inverse 3:2 pull-down and play it back at any convienient frame rate (48 frames per second to conserverve projector bandwidth, 60 fps to reduce flicker, or 72 fps to avoid both flicker and micro-judder). It's more expensive to do this for a 1080i ATSC Blue-Ray disk than a 480i NTSC DVD but no less possible.
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post #117 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 04:30 PM
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90% "just guessing" of all crt's will be considered junk.
Only the cream of the crop will survive the onslaught of new more efficient technologies.
With vinyl, the best turntables of any era keep their value and some become classics that no one can afford.
When digital hits that performance price ratio that will pull crt owners to switch.
The prices of crt's - including the cream of the crop will plummet -
That's when I buy :D
A decade later I'll be :) when no one can afford to buy my crt.

P.S. When the radio stations went with cd's. they put their EMT turtables in the dumpster ( that is like the G90 of turntables). You could just go and pick one up for free.
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post #118 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryg
Either Clarence is warming up to my basement talk, or he's out shopping for a Ruby ;)
I don't quite "get" your constant basement talk... maybe it's only funny to d!%!#@| types. Like women who don't "get" the Stooges or Monty Python.

I've never deleted any of your "basement" posts... I think they're effective in allowing other forum members to know how much credence to apply to your other trolling attempts.

The Ruby's not for me, but if d!%!#@|$ keep getting twice as good every year at half the cost as the previous year's over-hyped model, hopefully they might be worth considering in 4 or 5 years.

Seems like the biggest critics of the Ruby so far are the Qualia owners. The trick will be for them to bash the Ruby enough to heighten the perceived residual value of the already-tarnished Q004. Pump and dump.

Ruby pricing will be maintained near list for the next 6 months due to artificially-constrained supply... just like the XBox360. But once the supply gates are opened wide, you d!%!#@| fanatics will already be drooling over the rumors of the next vaporware bulb-burner which will also claim "almost as good as a G90".

If you've been satisfied with the PQ from d!%!#@| projectors since 1993, more power to you. I'm happy (ecstatic) with my choice, too.
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post #119 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 05:57 PM
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post #120 of 340 Old 12-14-2005, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence
Ruby pricing will be maintained near list for the next 6 months due to artificially-constrained supply... just like the XBox360. But once the supply gates are opened wide, you d!%!#@| fanatics will already be drooling over the rumors of the next vaporware bulb-burner which will also claim "almost as good as a G90".

:D - :D = :p

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