Barco HDMI/DVI-HDCP board that replaces Port 3? - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 468 Old 08-20-2006, 05:06 PM
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I had the full set of board mods done along with the DVI port upgrade on my BG1208/2. I have been working with Greg over the past couple of months after reading his posts on this forum and checking his website. I started with v2.x then returned for the free v3 upgrade to overcome some input signal detection issues I was having going from my Toshiba HD-A1 HDMI to the DVI port. This weekend, I got everything reinstalled, connected, and reconverged for 1080i. Still needs a professional calibration, but the picture and color saturation is truly outstanding. About the only thing more I could ask for would be 9" tubes, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. Of course, 6 months ago, I didn't even think I was going to be able to view HD-DVD on my CRT PJ. I had been using Port 5 for my HTPC VGA to RGBHV. My next experiment will be to go DVI out from the PC to Greg's DVI port.

Running the DVI/HDMI cable from the internal card out the chassis to the equipment room has been a small challenge, but I do like the theory that Greg promotes of injecting the signal into the processing path farther down the chain to reduce or avoid ringing, etc.

Greg has been very helpful in walking me through pulling and reinstalling boards over the phone, as well. This was the first time I had attempted doing anything inside the projector, so was a little apprehensive. The last thing I needed was to break a neck tube, or fry one of the circuits, so the hand-holding was much appreciated.

For the record, I paid for both the full set of board mods and the DVI port upgrade at prices above the more recent promotions Greg has been offering. I think for Barco owners wanting to bring your PJ into the world of HD, you should give Greg's solution serious consideration.
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post #452 of 468 Old 08-20-2006, 05:20 PM
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So the actual DVI input is inside the chassis on the pj? Interesting, I can imagine that would be fun to figure out. Can it be done without drilling a hole in the chassis? I'd definitly like to do the 7 card mod set plus DVI input, it'll just have to wait a little while(may get the HD-144 lenses in the mean time). The hand holding will be needed for me as well, since I've never done much inside of it either.

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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post #453 of 468 Old 08-20-2006, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plissken99
So the actual DVI input is inside the chassis on the pj? Interesting, I can imagine that would be fun to figure out. Can it be done without drilling a hole in the chassis? I'd definitly like to do the 7 card mod set plus DVI input, it'll just have to wait a little while(may get the HD-144 lenses in the mean time). The hand holding will be needed for me as well, since I've never done much inside of it either.
At the moment, I am feeding the HDMI end through the square hole at the back (right side, if ceiling mounted), will need a little bit of a cut out to completely reclose the lid. Sorry for the lack of clarity in my attached pics, but the first one shows the Port 3 board with the HDMI cable attached in the upper right corner of the image. The second pic shows the cable coming out the square hole in the back of the chassis lid which covers the boards.

I did the HD-145 lens upgrade at the same time (to reduce downtime and number of time I had to redo geometry and convergence). Was originally planning on HD-144, but my source just happened to have an unused set of 145's, so went with that instead.
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post #454 of 468 Old 08-21-2006, 12:17 PM
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Ok to release a couple of secrets about the S model.

When we were designing the V4s we looked at the Engineering of the Port 5 / Switcher on the S. Barco really messed up on the S model

The Barco cheeped out they put a high grade tranistor 5Ghz low feedback in the Signal path on port 5 and used a 1 Ghz on port 3. Also the resistance values were all off along with using a 5 V bypass caps on port 3 and the V+12, V-12 on the port 3 output is over 12V p-p talk about BW errors and over driving caps.

Once you correct this the path to the RGB output is much cleaner than port 5 actually. Barco Messedup port 5 on the S by putting all kinds of junk into it for the Line triplers etc.

So once you modify port 3 board it self you get a much better signel over port 5 through the modifyed port 5 switcher card.

I can give some hints. Port 3 has NEG and Pos colors pins where on the 909 barco units they got rid of this totaly because most modern systems use earth GND as a reference. In the old days they used a reference separate from Earth GND to possibly get rid Gnd Noise however this system actually added more in because it was not well designed. You need to get rid of the NEG section. This secton picks up harmonics from the pos section. The Caps in the NEG need to be removed and the NEG transistor needs to go away. I can show you how when I post the schematics.

The other problem is by passing port 3 transistors totaly and using a Opamp to amp the DVI Signal . And thats what we do on verson 4s along with the sync because port 3 output stage the cut off on the F Rolloff is like 500MHZ where the 1080p BW more like 3Ghz is better to resolve the full resolutions. However when port 3 was designed in the early 1990s for even the 800series the projectors with non-EM focus this was fine.

I can show the schematic of the port5/switcher on the S model. Next time I am on and show you how to replace the transistor and the caps, and two resistors.

http://www.eisemann-theater.com/inde...=page&SubMenu=
BTW typical turn around on mods has been 1 week without your unit.

GREG

Gregory C. Eisemann Senior Electrical Engineer, Satcom Engineer, Opnet Engineer, Network Engineering, Satellite Engineering
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post #455 of 468 Old 08-21-2006, 12:30 PM
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Thanks for the info Greg!
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post #456 of 468 Old 08-21-2006, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geordon
Running the DVI/HDMI cable from the internal card out the chassis to the equipment room has been a small challenge, but I do like the theory that Greg promotes of injecting the signal into the processing path farther down the chain to reduce or avoid ringing, etc.
Well, if you like that, then you should be an advocate for eliminating the stock port 3 board to achieve a cleaner signal path. This is quite possible with the Ophit Greg using on the port 3 board.

Dave
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post #457 of 468 Old 08-23-2006, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geordon
At the moment, I am feeding the HDMI end through the square hole at the back (right side, if ceiling mounted), will need a little bit of a cut out to completely reclose the lid. Sorry for the lack of clarity in my attached pics, but the first one shows the Port 3 board with the HDMI cable attached in the upper right corner of the image. The second pic shows the cable coming out the square hole in the back of the chassis lid which covers the boards.

I did the HD-145 lens upgrade at the same time (to reduce downtime and number of time I had to redo geometry and convergence). Was originally planning on HD-144, but my source just happened to have an unused set of 145's, so went with that instead.
Hi Geordon,
Could you clarify a small point for me regarding the routing of the cable.
If I've read correctly the Port 3 board has a DVI connector attached to it.
I'm assuming you're using a DVI-HDMI cable and that you've fed it using the HDMI end from inside to outside through the small hole you've made.Thus leaving the DVI end inside connected to the DVI Port 3 board and then connected the HDMI connector directly to your player.
Is that correct?
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post #458 of 468 Old 08-23-2006, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Person99
Well, if you like that, then you should be an advocate for eliminating the stock port 3 board to achieve a cleaner signal path. This is quite possible with the Ophit Greg using on the port 3 board.

Dave
I don't know what you mean by "Ophit", but yes, I do like Greg's board that I have installed in my 1208/2.
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post #459 of 468 Old 08-23-2006, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggy
Hi Geordon,
Could you clarify a small point for me regarding the routing of the cable.
If I've read correctly the Port 3 board has a DVI connector attached to it.
I'm assuming you're using a DVI-HDMI cable and that you've fed it using the HDMI end from inside to outside through the small hole you've made.Thus leaving the DVI end inside connected to the DVI Port 3 board and then connected the HDMI connector directly to your player.
Is that correct?
I did not make any holes, yet -- that 1" square hole was already in the back of the lid.

Your description is one way to do it, and I may still reroute the cable in that direction. However, I have the cable reversed, because I am routing the player through the DVI in/out ports on my A/V receiver (to allow switching). So my current configuration is:

Toshiba HD-A1 --> 3' HDMI to DVI cable --> Marantz SR8500 --> 23' DVI to HDMI cable (through little hole in PJ case) --> HDMI to DVI adaptor --> Greg's DVI board soldered on Port 3.

I was planning on using the receiver as a DVI switcher between the Toshiba and my HTPC. I haven't connected the DVI output of the HTPC to Port 3 -- still using VGA to Port 5. Once I try this out, if I like it, as Greg says should be the case, I will probably leave the goofy configuration as above. If I opt to stay with the HTPC on Port 5, I will reverse the 23' cable and run Toshiba --> HDMI to DVI cable --> DVI Port 3 just as you outlined above.

Geordon
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post #460 of 468 Old 08-23-2006, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geordon
I did not make any holes, yet -- that 1" square hole was already in the back of the lid.

Your description is one way to do it, and I may still reroute the cable in that direction. However, I have the cable reversed, because I am routing the player through the DVI in/out ports on my A/V receiver (to allow switching). So my current configuration is:

Toshiba HD-A1 --> 3' HDMI to DVI cable --> Marantz SR8500 --> 23' DVI to HDMI cable (through little hole in PJ case) --> HDMI to DVI adaptor --> Greg's DVI board soldered on Port 3.

I was planning on using the receiver as a DVI switcher between the Toshiba and my HTPC. I haven't connected the DVI output of the HTPC to Port 3 -- still using VGA to Port 5. Once I try this out, if I like it, as Greg says should be the case, I will probably leave the goofy configuration as above. If I opt to stay with the HTPC on Port 5, I will reverse the 23' cable and run Toshiba --> HDMI to DVI cable --> DVI Port 3 just as you outlined above.

Geordon
Sorry about the hole, my mistake.
I've just opened up my case and have seen the same hole for the IR receiver.
It's conveniently located isn't it.
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post #461 of 468 Old 08-23-2006, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geordon
I don't know what you mean by "Ophit", but yes, I do like Greg's board that I have installed in my 1208/2.
That little sub-board with the DVI connector on Greg's port 3 card is an Ophit DDA. This product:
http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/DDA.ASP

He removes the white case, cuts off the VGA connector, then solders the exposed wires to the input of the port 3 board.

My point was that with this, there is no need for the port 3 board. The RGB output of the Ophit can be run straight to the RGB switcher once the resistors on it are changed to increase the voltage. H and V sync signals can be taken to the port 3 board or straight to the mobo.

Dave
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post #462 of 468 Old 08-23-2006, 07:38 AM
 
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He also installed new P16 CRTs which had to be modified to work with my model Barco.
The question is - how much improvement was due to Greg's board modifications and how much can be attributed to the new P16 tubes? Tough making an assessment when everything is done at once.

Quote:
I don't know what you mean by "Ophit"
The Ophit referred to is the Ophit DDA-A001, an HDCP stripping, DVI-to-RGB converter. The claim is that Greg's DVI input card is actually the guts of the Ophit.

If the Port 3 card can be eliminated, as Dave says, what was its purpose in the first place? Why didn't Barco simply route the Port 3 DB9 connection to the RGB board and eliminate the cost of the Port 3 board?
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post #463 of 468 Old 08-23-2006, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alan halvorson

If the Port 3 card can be eliminated, as Dave says, what was its purpose in the first place? Why didn't Barco simply route the Port 3 DB9 connection to the RGB board and eliminate the cost of the Port 3 board?
Sync processing as well as other corrections. For instance, the mobo requires seperate negative H and V sync signals. Port 3 will provide that from positive or negative synce on composite sync or sync on green.

As an aside, P16 tubes make a HUGE difference over 180 tubes. I and others can attest to that from experience.

Dave
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post #464 of 468 Old 08-23-2006, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Person99
That little sub-board with the DVI connector on Greg's port 3 card is an Ophit DDA. This product:
http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/DDA.ASP

He removes the white case, cuts off the VGA connector, then solders the exposed wires to the input of the port 3 board.

Dave
That is interesting. So, why doesn't everyone just get an Ophit DDA and a VGA dongle to do the pin switching magic to Barco VGA format for under $200 instead of waiting for a custom-built external card from overseas?
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post #465 of 468 Old 08-23-2006, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geordon
That is interesting. So, why doesn't everyone just get an Ophit DDA and a VGA dongle to do the pin switching magic to Barco VGA format for under $200 instead of waiting for a custom-built external card from overseas?
Prices are comparable. John's is built well. John's is also built specifically for port 3--i.e. he designed it to reduce ringing and such.

Dave
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post #466 of 468 Old 08-23-2006, 12:54 PM
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Person 99 you are always wrong in fact I have never seen where you are right. In fact I am sending in a compaint for the first time in history of me reading this forum.

WE FIRST order a special Orphit Card with the transmission components removed.

Oprhit has an official license so we use it because other people are bootlegging it their license.

We then balance the port 3 card and modify over 30 items to increase BW and to get a much sharper picture vs. an external device.

Why do you think we remove 1/2 of the transistors and caps on the board to just say we do it and how do you think a board works with 1/2 of its components removed.

Also I am going to have my attorney contact you for false statements because what you are saying is totally false and it’s well known that you are friends with the other mod builders and you are trying to discredit lots of hard research and development.

We also replace the transistors in port 3 to higher values to resolve a much sharper image.

Add special power filters in every stage of the RGB -12 and +12


We also remove the NEG section of port 3 to resolve more BW. WE remove the NEG/POS sync to improve stability.

Also you are wrong again. If you directly connect the DDA to a 1209 unit it will get a very dark picture the port5 switcher requires a 12+ 12- signal and you cannot achieve that from a chip that is powered by 3.35v.

Man on Man you need to go back to engineering school. Oh wait I don’t think you are an engineer please tell me how a 3 v signal can power a card that needs over 12v. Why do you think barco amp the incoming signal.

Go ahead and add a DDA to port 3 and you will see it does not work at all.


I am going to have my attorney contact you for false statements this is getting really stupid that every time I come out with a new product you discredit it because you could not invent something for yourself and some other mod builder pays you I heard to go on the forum to badmouth me.

And I gaurentee we have the best picture possible! People who own it know it for sure!

GREG

Gregory C. Eisemann Senior Electrical Engineer, Satcom Engineer, Opnet Engineer, Network Engineering, Satellite Engineering
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post #467 of 468 Old 08-23-2006, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geisemann

WE FIRST order a special Orphit Card with the transmission components removed.
Still an Ophit, that is what I said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geisemann
Ophit has an official license so we use it because other people are bootlegging it their license.
You tried to scare people into thinking moome's license was not legal. It is just as legal as the Ophit.

BTW, since you use the product, I would think you would know it is "Ophit" not "Orphit".

Quote:
Originally Posted by geisemann
We then balance the port 3 card and modify over 30 items to increase BW and to get a much sharper picture vs. an external device.
I've didn't say anything about what you did or didn't do to the port 3 board other than you replace caps and transistors and modify circuits. In fact, I typically refer to it as a "modified port 3 board". Which is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geisemann
Also I am going to have my attorney contact you for false statments because what you are saying is totally false and it’s well known that you are friends with the other mod builders and you are trying to discredit lots of hard research and development.
Interesting that this is your approach to discussion. And, I'm not friends with any of the other mod builders.

Should I talk to your atty about your slander toward me on Curt's site? It was proven wrong by several people coming forward there.

Is your atty going to handle moome case against you for lying about his license on a public forum--or have you deleted that post?

Quote:
Originally Posted by geisemann
Go ahead and add a DDA to port 3 and you will see it does not work at all.
Actually, this was suggested by a real electrical engineer on the board. Two of us have done it without yet boosting the output. In stock form, the output is too low for this, but it does work The issue is just picture too dim due to J3 needs 1Vpp.

So, saying "it does not work at all" is quite far from the truth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geisemann
every time I come out with a new product you discredit it because you could not invent something for yourself.
I'm on a public opinion forum diiscussing the pros and cons of different available products--that is all. Just a hobbiest looking for the best value for my money. I'm sure guys like you don't like this, but that is the purpose of these forums.

Just so you know, the logical fallacy you just commited is called an ad hominem attack. Google it if you don't know what it is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by geisemann
GREG
We know your name, you don't have to shout it.

Dave
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post #468 of 468 Old 08-23-2006, 01:13 PM
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I'm going to close this thread (temporarily) until I can sort a few things out.

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