Antique Sony KP-5000 Help - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 144 Old 12-16-2005, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I am new to AVS Forum and not sure this is the right place, or even if anyone remembers the above.
I am the proud owner of a 1981 Sony KP 5000 Video Projection System.
A super cool looking all-in-one system that resembles an automatic washer when closed!
It uses 2 CRT's (one Green and one Purple (Red/Blue?), and has no on screen menus that I know of.
Apart from a greenish picture ( even on B&W with the color turned off) and convergence issues, it works pretty well.
Judging from the lack of info on the net. I am guessing that not too many of these are still around.
Anyone out there with info or advice on solving the above picture issues or just old recollections on the above, would be appreciated.
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post #2 of 144 Old 12-16-2005, 08:43 AM
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Correction: I think you're the ONLY one with one of these!

I have heard of them, never seen one.

I will guess though that the tubes are probably flat (worn out) and are emitting uneven amounts of light. If you're lucky, you can open the unit and find the G2 controls (master brightness) and balance them out for a better image.

At this point, it's on it's way to collector status more than anything else. I don't think you'll have much luck finding any info, but if you post some pix of the internals, I can probably pin point the G2 controls for you.

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post #3 of 144 Old 12-16-2005, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Curt for your insight. I feel honoured.
I guess hearing it from you and looking at that low serial number, you are probably right.

Here are some photos. It is quite busy in there, but amazingly not much dust.
I was quite surprised to see 3 CRT's in there (2 are coupled to one lens).
I was imagining that some internal magic from the 80's was being performed in there.
Is there an easy way of turning off the color so I can enjoy old TV shows better, or is that not possible due to uneven output?
I would have posted a photo of the image quality but used up my quota.
Thanks in advance.
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post #4 of 144 Old 12-16-2005, 10:30 PM
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I fixed one of those up when I was a kid. The main problem was that the optics were dirty. It uses air cooled CRTs and a series of mirrors to combine the blue and green. All were coated with dust and smoke which really cut down the light from the blue and red. After cleaning the optics and adjusting the G2s and drive controls it had a very good picture. It has large CRTs, so they should last longer than most.
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post #5 of 144 Old 12-17-2005, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Andy. You must have been a privileged child working on such exotic equipment!
Judging by the age of the set, I am sure a little cleaning of the optics wouldn't hurt.
I presume the plan of attack would be to remove the 4 (or all 8?) screws right by the label "Do Not Remove Screws!" on the lens assembly, as per photo.
Where would the G2 or drive controls be located? Could I get into much trouble adjusting them, and what would be the proper procedure be?

I don't think the set has had much heavy use and was stored the last few years. It was owned by a little old lady!
As per the attached photo, the picture compared to my old 1991 Sony KV-27XBR50 isn't that bad except for Dr Scott's biliousness.
It rivals the conventional set in brightness, and it actually seems to show more of the picture than the 27" beside it, even though it has spillover of a few inches on the edges of the parabolic screen.
On screen writing seems to indicate a slight out of convergence. Would this be an easy adjustment for someone who doesn't own the service manual?
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post #6 of 144 Old 12-17-2005, 08:18 PM
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Hmm, decent focus, impressive brightness, but nasty color balance. If it's not the optics, it could be something as simple as the tint control, or G2 balance.

Does that set have the Schmidt style tubes in it with the phosphor coating on the back of a metal plate, and the mirror on the inside of the tube? If it does, I don't think you can remove the lenses without breaking the tubes. I know a lot of TV's that age used those. But that is a really interesting TV. If you were local I'd love to work on it with you :-)

And seeing the brightness of that screen makes me want to try it with a 1031Q or an ECP4500... You'd probably need to watch with sunglasses
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post #7 of 144 Old 12-17-2005, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your insight Maxx. Not sure what you mean by the Schmidt style tubes.
Tubes appear to be labeled SD-102G, SD-102R, SD-102B.
Being a newbie to projection systems, I always thought that color CRT's were part numbered ending in 22.

As Andy said that he had one apart and cleaned the optics, I imagine that disassembly is possible but to what degree of complexity I cannot say.

Another footnote about this particular set is that in 24 years, it has NEVER been serviced! Although the inside is very clean, dirty optics are a strong possibility.

For your enjoyment, here is another photo without the screen attached.
I can almost imagine Bob Barker with darker hair wheeling it out on The Price Is Right! It was true genius of Sony to make one major appliance look like another! Fully opened however it kind of makes me think of how a flying saucer control console and windshield would look.
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post #8 of 144 Old 12-21-2005, 01:24 PM
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That form factor for FPTV sets was not that uncommon in the early 1980's, as the screen is much higher gain than a RPTV. I remember RCA marketed one very similar to this, and of course the Kloss Videobeam was the same concept, except the projector and screen were separate, but still that high gain kinda parabolic metallic style. I still have a Kloss Videobeam, but it died electronically years ago, probably power supply problems.
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post #9 of 144 Old 12-21-2005, 01:31 PM
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Man, and you're in Canada. If you ever want to get rid of that, I might just take it, simply to say I have one..

I'll tie my old Beta machine to it..

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post #10 of 144 Old 12-22-2005, 02:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks again for your kind words Curt, but it is not on the auction block yet!

Thanks Phototone for jogging my memory on the Kloss Videobeam. Those were the days! Sorry to hear that yours died. I hope it gets resurrected soon!

I am still trying to clean the optics on mine. I am a little leery of proceeding further without the manual. If anyone can point me in the right direction, it would be appreciated.
As the photos show with the outer plastic face removed, I have now come up against a solid metal box. The lens seems to itself unscrew (or is for focus/rotate image?), and the flange that holds the lens also unscrews. If I disassemble further will I have a big job for recalibration? What is the next step? Any thoughts?
Anyone able to locate the G2 brightness controls?
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post #11 of 144 Old 12-29-2005, 01:35 PM
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Dude - good news...you are NOT the only one that is left in the world w/ a SONY KP-5000.

I too have just aquired one and have (hopefully), an easy question for someone.

When in the test MODE position and aligning the lines, everything aligns properly EXCEPT the blue lines, which the entire pattern is 30% smaller than all the rest (obviously, that means the blue lines cannot be aligned), so I don't get the 3-D viusal, I get double-vision!

Anyone out there have a clue?

Great box otherwise!!
Thanks
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post #12 of 144 Old 12-29-2005, 04:42 PM
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Almost sounds like the deflection yoke slid back on the blue. As far as I know all 3 deflection yokes would be connected in parallel, so they should all be deflecting the same amount.

Could also be the convergence board, I'm not familiar with those sets. But you could try unplugging the convergence board (if you know what you are doing) and see if the blue size returns to normal. Is the picture smaller on all 4 sides, or just top and bottom etc?
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post #13 of 144 Old 01-20-2006, 01:04 PM
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And here I am, another Canadian looking for info on this same model. Colour isn't too bad on mine, but the overall picture is getting progressively weaker and weaker, and is at the point now that even in a completely darkened room, it's getting hard to watch anything.

Notwo, thanks for all the pics. I have never has mine open from the back before.

Anyone have any idea if the CRT tubes in this can be rejuvenated? I have access to a CRT tester that can "rejuvenate" some CRTs to get a little more life out of them.

BTW, I'm a noob here.
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post #14 of 144 Old 01-20-2006, 06:26 PM
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And i thought my projector was big, that thing is a bahemeth.
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post #15 of 144 Old 01-20-2006, 09:19 PM
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short_circutz,
You got a PM

Cheers,
Alex
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post #16 of 144 Old 01-20-2006, 11:33 PM
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That metal shield should come off to reveal the mirrors and CRTs. I don't remember it being particularly hard to disassemble for cleaning. Nothing is going to fall apart, or get damaged from unscrewing things. The CRTs are regular CRTs and are air cooled with a fan.

From the picture, it looks like the CRTs are strong. The red and blue are combined with the mirrors, so it's not surprising you have too little red and blue. Mine was so dirty there was almost no red or blue. After a good cleaning and adjustment it looked very good even though it was heavily used. Those old front projection CRTs seem to last forever. I kind of hated to get rid of it, but I already had a better projection TV and I needed the money.

The convergence controls are under the front grill which pulls off. I think there were a few more convergence controls hidden the front cover. It's a simple set to converge.
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post #17 of 144 Old 01-23-2006, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks a million Andy! Everything was exactly as you described.

The mirror, lenses and CRT's were all fairly dirty. Oddly, the Green CRT seemed to have the most dirt, even though the fan blows directly at the Blue one.
The Green CRT also had the most discoloration. The fan cooled Blue one the least. I guess cooling makes a big difference in extending life spans of CRT's.

I found the convergence controls under the front grill, but can't seem to get the lines to all align properly. On the top of the screen, the horizontal Red line is above the Green/Blue. On the bottom of the screen, the Red is below. In the center they are all converged.

I did not see the hidden convergence controls you speak of, unless you mean the thumbscrews under the lenses.

Another problem seems to be the focus. Where would you start on that one?
I imagine screwing/unscrewing the lenses would be the place to start, but which lens first, and what test pattern to use?

The previously Green picture is much improved after cleaning, although it is still the dominant color.
The focus and convergence are what is really holding back this set from becoming a great performer.
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post #18 of 144 Old 01-23-2006, 07:29 PM
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Judging from your pix the focus is as good as it will get. The red needs the height reduced and the linearity adjusted.

I swear I'll buy this off of you..

25 years out of an FP CRT based unit. Who knew?


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post #19 of 144 Old 01-23-2006, 07:31 PM
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BTw, can you post a pix of the convergence board? I want to see what you have to work with.

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post #20 of 144 Old 01-23-2006, 07:35 PM
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Those tubes don't look too bad. For the convergence, it looks like you need to find the control for the red vertical linearity.

The lenses are probably fixed focus since it is a preassembled tv that has a preset distance to the screen. You probably need to find the electronic focus controls for the CRT's. If you don't know where it is, it will be a thick insulated wire coming out of the tube socket on each neck board and going down to an adjustment block. The focus adjustments may also be near the convergence adjustments.

Please take more pictures of the internals, it's very interesting!
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post #21 of 144 Old 01-23-2006, 11:07 PM
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The dynamic convergence controls are on the same board as the centering controls. I think you have to remove another front cover to get to all the controls. They are pretty basic on this set, but you will have size and linearity for two of the colors (probably red and blue).

The lens focus shouldn't need to be changed unless you have a sharp picture on the CRTs and it's still blurry on the screen.

You should be able to balance the three colors. If the green is too bright in the dim areas, look for the controls labeled screen, or G2. If it's the bright areas that are too green, look for the drive controls.
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post #22 of 144 Old 01-24-2006, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ancorp View Post

short_circutz,
You got a PM

Cheers,
Alex

Back atcha!

As to the previous post, most of the controls coould be accessed from the front if you remove the front panel that the speaker is mounted to. if it doesn't come off after the screws are removed, you may have to go through the back and unscrew a nut from stud on each side that is used to attach the front panel. Thats part I am unsure of, because the front was already dissassembled when I got mine.

By the way, I only paid $100 for mine about 5 yrs ago. A friend of mine was selling it cause he got tired of moving it to a different apartment and readjusting it every month or two.
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post #23 of 144 Old 01-24-2006, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLWiener View Post

And i thought my projector was big, that thing is a bahemeth.

Well, last time I moved it took three of us to get it out of my basement apartment and up the stairs fairly comfortably. I'm not sure of whjat it weighs, but it takes 2 decently hefty guys to carry it on a level area with considerable effort.
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post #24 of 144 Old 01-24-2006, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you guys for all your great input. I never could have made it this far without your help.

Yes Andy and Short Circutz are correct.

The front comes off with 4 screws to reveal a cornucopia of pots!
The ones that I found were as follows:

-V Skew G,B (2 of them for Blue. The one on the VertAdj PCB doesn't seem to do anything. Do they work in unison?)
-V Lin G,B
-V Size G,B,R
-V Cent G,B,R
-V Bow B
-R Drive
-B Drive
-R
-G
-B
-Focus
-H Skew R,B (2 of them for Blue),G
-H Sub Bow G
-H Sub Skew G
-H Bow B,G
-H Cent R,B,G
-H Size R,B,G
-H Lin B,G
-H Keys B,G

Never having adjusted a projection set before, the task seems daunting.
I managed to get the red lines to mostly converge, but now the blue is off.
Try as I might the way I did it with the Red, I just can't seem to get the Blue lines to converge.
Any advice on where to start, or a good document applicable to this set's calibration?

The green is predominant in the bright areas, so I guess turning up the Blue & Red would solve that one.

As for the Blue lines not converging, I must be missing a step in calibration.

I can attest to the tremendous weight of this monster. I pulled it up a steep icy driveway alone with a hand truck, and it was a very close call as to who was pulling who!
It feels like it rivals my treadmill or snowblower in weight, and they both weigh in at over 200 lbs.

I read somewhere that Elvis, who was notorious for going through a lot of TV's, had the same set. He must have had the prototype if he did, as he died in '77 but this came out in '78. If the prototype didn't have those sturdy casters, I can see it having a role in his death.
LL
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post #25 of 144 Old 01-24-2006, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Here are a few more photos............
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post #26 of 144 Old 01-25-2006, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are a few more photos.

Would the R-G-B board (in the previous set of pictures) be the focus for the indivual colors as Maxx mentioned? Would that big focus knob be for all colors?

Looking at the bright/small CRT images, it is difficult to see if it is more focused than the screen. A lack of sharpness I imagine would result as a normal part of magnifying the image. It never the less has a cloudy quality, much like the result of Bob Guccione's pioneering of placing Vaseline on his camera lenses.

Aside from staying away from the yoke adjusments, are there any pots I should NOT turn?
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post #27 of 144 Old 01-25-2006, 07:51 AM
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Tweak as few pots as possible. This set has one focus pot for all three tubes. Typical Sony of those days. Teh RGB pots on the one shot are the G2 controls, the master brightness. Turn down the green if the pix is still a bit too greenish.

You've now unlocked the mysteries of the Sony FP unit. Whether you find Nirvana or Pandora will be up to what you do from here.



NOte to all US'ers. Three Canadians have this set in running condition? Perhaps it's due to our perpetual deep freezing that keeps these sets going.


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post #28 of 144 Old 01-25-2006, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Good advice Curt.

I still think the best way to take the road to Nirvana is using a map, otherwise I feel there will be a lot of detours to Pandora's house.

Who has the lowest serial? Mine is 010421 for the set, and 500446 for the screen. It originally sold for $4000+ back in 1981. That was a lot of money for a TV back then, and I don't think too many bought them to watch The Love Boat. In today's dollars, depending on who's calculator you use is around $9500.
Still a lot for a TV.

Any ideas on the latest photo of TestGrid2?
Acbbse (are you in Canada too?) seems to have a similar alignment issue.
Sorry to hear Short Circutz's set is dimming. Brightness seems to be one thing this model has in abundance.

Those pesky Blue lines!
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post #29 of 144 Old 01-25-2006, 09:48 AM
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I've got one of these I watch everyday at home here in NC.

When the company I work for closed some of it's plants in the area this was in one of the conference rooms. I'm sure it was rarely if ever used. I asked the man in charge to let me know if they wanted to sell it. They told me I could have it if I wanted it. I loaded it my van that day. I've been using it for 2 years or longer.

It also has an angle iron stand with casters that when used would raise the height about 3 feet off the floor.

Doug
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post #30 of 144 Old 01-25-2006, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Four people in the world and counting, with the same set. Excellent.

Chalk up one for the USA!

Thanks for joining in Doug. That is quite a find, low milage and custom casters to boot!
I am envious.

I wonder if there are any more companies out there still doing Powerpoint presentations on one of these things.

Speaking of behemoths, does anyone out there have the bigger brother, the 6 foot KP-7200?
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