rajdude's Ampro 4200 setup and troubleshooting threads - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 464 Old 01-04-2006, 12:57 PM
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I found that on my 9000 with six pole magnets along with stig control made a huge difference from a stock 9500 in getting rid of triangulation in the dots , I really noticed it on the focus .
I never really fully understood why until recently with all the recent posts on the advantages of six pole magnetics.

Thanks

Bruce
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post #92 of 464 Old 01-04-2006, 02:46 PM
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Hell, its an Ampro, be happy it is even working!

OK, you are not twisting the whole CPC assembly are you? You need to turn the knobs to adjust. Secondly, you only look at the center of the screen.

An easy way to check how good your astig is is to use the electronic focus to run between underfocus extreme and overfocus extreme. The dots should get bigger and fuzzier very smoothly with the brighter spot in the center. If the dot is doing a little dance as you run between under and over focus, then astig is bad.

Dave
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post #93 of 464 Old 01-04-2006, 04:51 PM
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Get the CPC magnet assemblies with 2, 4, and 6 pole adjustments from VDC, Display Systems Division. NOT the tube rebuilding facility in LA.

www.vdcdisplaysystems.com


They will help.

All the advice given so far is good. Follow it and it will help you.

CJ
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post #94 of 464 Old 01-04-2006, 05:56 PM
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Now that you've gotten all this good advice, I'm going to guess that you have straight HD-10 lenses and you are projecting onto under a 100 inch screen. How am I doing so far. I'll also guess that if you look in through the lenses, you can see scan lines on the face of the tubes. Am I getting hot?

Chip

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post #95 of 464 Old 01-04-2006, 06:04 PM
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HD10 can focus down to 78"w (up to 240"w)... Rajiv's screen is 72"w
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post #96 of 464 Old 01-04-2006, 06:07 PM
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post #97 of 464 Old 01-04-2006, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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HI tse,
Here is the image of my HOT board

Please let me know how to proceed. Thanks for your help

-Rajiv

PS: did not get time to check the raster today. Will do that tomorrow evening.
LL

-Rajiv
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post #98 of 464 Old 01-04-2006, 07:37 PM
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Clarence, Don't believe everything you read, especially where AmPro is involved.
Right Pete
I had this same problem with a 4000G with low hours. I could look down the lens and see big honkin scanlines at 768P but could not see them on the screen. I then tried 480P, still no luck. Realizing that it was a limitation of my room and screen size, I took it somewhere where I could set the lenses to mid point and just pull it back until it focussed. That turned out to be about 120 inches wide. I then fed it 768P again and bingo, super sharp scanlines. Some day I'll try it again on my small screen with a set of HD-10L's like my 4600HD has.

Chip

Current owner of the last/best AmPro on the planet. The mighty 4600HD, and it's still running...better than Barco's, especially southern ones.
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post #99 of 464 Old 01-04-2006, 08:12 PM
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[quote=rajdude]Hi Mark, You are up early! it is like 6 AM in Cali, right?

I'm always up this early on workdays... been up since 5 dude! The real concern is that I'm checking AVS before I go to work... shameful

I think Chip may be on to something. Your screen is pretty dang small. That's the real reason I'm not using my 4600 right now. It begs for a bigger screen and my room won't accomodate it right now. Next house...

Let us know what you find out with this pj.

-Mark

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post #100 of 464 Old 01-05-2006, 04:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence View Post

HD10 can focus down to 78"w (up to 240"w)... Rajiv's screen is 72"w


Hmmmm... Very Interesting info, Clarence.

Strangely, my lenses focus just fine on a 72 " screen. When I say fine I mean the patterns and images are sharp. They just appear a little soft. If there was a 'capability' issue wont I be at the end of the 'travel' of the lenses and still the image wont be in focus....just like any lense arrangement....when you come to the end of the travel it wont focus aymore closer...you have to step back to get the image in focus.

Even on a 64" screen the focus is OK and I am not against the end 'stops'...I mean I still have a little travel left on the lense focus adjustment controls.

Furthermore, Ampro's SIP program accepts 72" screen width as the minimum. It takes into account which lens I have in the PJ and which PJ I have too.

Still the comments from everyone here worry me. Maybe I need some other lenses to get the scan lines?

-Rajiv

-Rajiv
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post #101 of 464 Old 01-05-2006, 04:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Very good advise from all here. I really appreciate it.THANKS

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmjohnson View Post

Get the CPC magnet assemblies with 2, 4, and 6 pole adjustments from VDC, Display Systems Division. NOT the tube rebuilding facility in LA.

CJ

CJ, do you know how much these CPC magnet assemblies cost?

-Rajiv
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post #102 of 464 Old 01-05-2006, 04:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefuel View Post

...
I had this same problem with a 4000G with low hours. I could look down the lens and see big honkin scanlines at 768P but could not see them on the screen. I then tried 480P, still no luck. Realizing that it was a limitation of my room and screen size, I took it somewhere where I could set the lenses to mid point and just pull it back until it focussed. That turned out to be about 120 inches wide. I then fed it 768P again and bingo, super sharp scanlines. Some day I'll try it again on my small screen with a set of HD-10L's like my 4600HD has.

Chip

Chip, please tell me this....when you had the 4000G setup for the smaller screen did you get the image in focus?

I am also wondering that these lenses may not be good at near the end of their focus settings. It sure seems like from what you posted...."good scanlines at midpoint."

Is there any workaround since I cannot get such a big screen in my room.

-Rajiv

-Rajiv
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post #103 of 464 Old 01-05-2006, 04:58 AM
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Rajiv- for goodness sake look down your tubes with a pair of sunglasses and see if the scan lines are good. Once you're set up and happy there, then move on to the optics.

A problem is easiest dealt with once isolated and properly described.
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post #104 of 464 Old 01-05-2006, 05:05 AM
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rajdude and mtmelvin, not to toot my own horn but I know for a fact that you would both benifit from the installation of HD-10L lenses with a AmPro and a screen of that size. mt, if that's the only thing keeping you from putting up your 4600, I have mine on a 72 in diag, not wide screen with HD-10L's and it's sharp as a tack.
I tried straight 10's, 10-GT17's and 10L's. 10L's gave me by far the best image on a small screen. No matter what HD lens we are talking about, you will find that the best optical focus will be at a point where the lens adjustment is at mid point.
Try as you will to perfect the electronics, you will never get a sharp image until you put on the correct lenses for the application. And that's all I'm going to say about it.

Chip

Current owner of the last/best AmPro on the planet. The mighty 4600HD, and it's still running...better than Barco's, especially southern ones.
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post #105 of 464 Old 01-05-2006, 06:33 AM
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Chip-
Thank you very much for your advice. My own situation is a little more complicated than that. I have pics in my gallery that help explain it. I never had a problem getting a sharp picture really, but in the ceiling mounted position my 4600 was too far away from my 80"wide screen. I've got an open beam ceiling which limits the mounting position options. I was having to crank the "width" control all the way down just to not overshoot the screen. The PJ was also a little high due to the height of the beam. The next closer beam would be too close. My only other options would be to put up some structure that would allow the pj to be between the beams AND lower at the same time. That sounds very ugly to me and I'm not going to do that. I could also move the screen closer, which I tried and I wasn't happy with that arrangement either.

I don't know if different lenses would help in my situation, and even if they did my pj would still be too high for the screen. It's my fault for putting it up there without doing more calculations. It's actually still up there and I've been meaning to take it down.

When I used it on the floor, it was actually at an ok distance, but as a coffee table it was just too big for my room

Oh, and I've got the HVPS Restart thing going on too... another reason it lies dormant for now

Thanks again, Chip. Rajiv, I hope you have some success with that pj. Let us know your progress!

-Mark

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post #106 of 464 Old 01-05-2006, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Mark,
I remember your room and I think you need "long throw" lenses. If anything like that exist for a CRT PJ. I know they are available for flashlight PJs.

Maybe one of those combinations of numbers mean HD10L or etc etc (from the table posted above by Clarence) mean it is a long throw lense.


-Rajiv

-Rajiv
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post #107 of 464 Old 01-05-2006, 06:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefuel View Post

rajdude and mtmelvin, not to toot my own horn but I know for a fact that you would both benifit from the installation of HD-10L lenses with a AmPro and a screen of that size. mt, if that's the only thing keeping you from putting up your 4600, I have mine on a 72 in diag, not wide screen with HD-10L's and it's sharp as a tack.
I tried straight 10's, 10-GT17's and 10L's. 10L's gave me by far the best image on a small screen. No matter what HD lens we are talking about, you will find that the best optical focus will be at a point where the lens adjustment is at mid point.
Try as you will to perfect the electronics, you will never get a sharp image until you put on the correct lenses for the application. And that's all I'm going to say about it.

Chip


Ok, Chip,
but how do I find HD10L lenses (I need just the lenses right?) ?

e-bay? or from someone here who is parting out an Ampro? Cost?

-Rajiv

PS: My wife will go ballistic if she find out that I need more parts ! She already despises the time I have to spend with this PJ to get it up and running!

-Rajiv
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post #108 of 464 Old 01-05-2006, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajdude View Post

Ok, Chip,
but how do I find HD10L lenses (I need just the lenses right?) ?

e-bay? or from someone here who is parting out an Ampro? Cost?

-Rajiv

PS: My wife will go ballistic if she find out that I need more parts ! She already despises the time I have to spend with this PJ to get it up and running!

I can't help the pMs. Your best bet is e-bay. I think there's a set on there now. If you don't get a set from a AmPro, you will have to do a simple mod to them to make them work The four small holes that are used to fasten the lens to the adapter plate need to be counter sunk. You will see what I mean if you remove one of the lense/adapter assemblies and remove one screw. Everyone else uses through hole mounting. Not AmPro.

Chip

Current owner of the last/best AmPro on the planet. The mighty 4600HD, and it's still running...better than Barco's, especially southern ones.
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post #109 of 464 Old 01-05-2006, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtmelvin View Post

Chip-
Thank you very much for your advice. My own situation is a little more complicated than that. I have pics in my gallery that help explain it. I never had a problem getting a sharp picture really, but in the ceiling mounted position my 4600 was too far away from my 80"wide screen. I've got an open beam ceiling which limits the mounting position options. I was having to crank the "width" control all the way down just to not overshoot the screen. The PJ was also a little high due to the height of the beam. The next closer beam would be too close. My only other options would be to put up some structure that would allow the pj to be between the beams AND lower at the same time. That sounds very ugly to me and I'm not going to do that. I could also move the screen closer, which I tried and I wasn't happy with that arrangement either.

I don't know if different lenses would help in my situation, and even if they did my pj would still be too high for the screen. It's my fault for putting it up there without doing more calculations. It's actually still up there and I've been meaning to take it down.

When I used it on the floor, it was actually at an ok distance, but as a coffee table it was just too big for my room

Oh, and I've got the HVPS Restart thing going on too... another reason it lies dormant for now

Thanks again, Chip. Rajiv, I hope you have some success with that pj. Let us know your progress!

-Mark

Changing the lenses is not going to change the throw ratio, only the focal range. The size will remain the same. You should probably look into a 8500LC

Chip

Current owner of the last/best AmPro on the planet. The mighty 4600HD, and it's still running...better than Barco's, especially southern ones.
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post #110 of 464 Old 01-05-2006, 08:09 AM
 
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It is all Chips fault.

I think he has the ONLY correctly working Ampro (I had a real hard time typing that).
There must be a rule that only one is allowed to work properly at any given time.

R - to solve your problem I think you will have to break Chip's PJ...



Pete
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post #111 of 464 Old 01-05-2006, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajdude View Post

Ok, Chip,
but how do I find HD10L lenses (I need just the lenses right?) ?

e-bay? or from someone here who is parting out an Ampro? Cost?

-Rajiv

PS: My wife will go ballistic if she find out that I need more parts ! She already despises the time I have to spend with this PJ to get it up and running!

Don't suppose you ever come to the UK do you? The 9500LC I bought came with HD10L's, I'm aiming for a 90" wide screen (which is the max width MP recommended 10L's could do). I'm wondering if we could both benfit by doing a swap?

Jon
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post #112 of 464 Old 01-05-2006, 10:15 AM
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http://www.vdcdisplaysystems.com/pdf...Master__V2.pdf

Table of lenses with screen sizes for the Marquee 9500. Shouldn't be too much different than the Ampros.
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post #113 of 464 Old 01-05-2006, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthZ View Post

It is all Chips fault.

I think he has the ONLY correctly working Ampro (I had a real hard time typing that).
There must be a rule that only one is allowed to work properly at any given time.

R - to solve your problem I think you will have to break Chip's PJ...



Pete

That musta hurt

Chip

PS I have three perfectly working AmPro's

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post #114 of 464 Old 01-05-2006, 05:59 PM
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It's not the projectors, it's the people who run (add an i and you get ruin) them

Chip

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post #115 of 464 Old 01-05-2006, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajdude View Post

John,
I was trying to set it up for 1920 x 1440 for 1080p.
I calculate that the 4:3 version of 1080p is this resolution, right?

What do others here feed the PJ is they want to display 1080p?
Do they feed straight 1920 x 1080 to the PJ ???

Rajiv

1920 x 1440 is definately pushing it. The 4200 is a middle generation projector and it can't do what the later generation projectors can do. Anything much over about 1000 lines is going to be less than optimal. Your max res will be about 1366 x 1024. That's progressive. If you go interlace then 1920 x 1080i will look fantastic. The 1280 x 720p HDTV mode will look excellent, too. Your projector is more than capable of displaying the best video available (that I can find, anyway).
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post #116 of 464 Old 01-05-2006, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefuel View Post

You should probably look into a 8500LC

Chip

Hmmm... I've got an 8500, non LC. Close enough?

It's on the floor under my 4600HD

-Mark

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post #117 of 464 Old 01-06-2006, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtmelvin View Post

Hmmm... I've got an 8500, non LC. Close enough?

It's on the floor under my 4600HD

-Mark

The 8500 LC has smaller tubes with the same optics as the 9500LC which gives it a much longer throw ratio (would require that it must be much further back). I can't remember exactly but it's something like 1.85 X screen width.

Chip

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post #118 of 464 Old 01-06-2006, 04:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok Guys,
After reading all your posts I thought I think I should look a little closer after I reduce the rez. Here is what I saw yesterday night.

I DO see scanlines (If I look closely enough) on the screen itself.

I get big FAT scan lines at 640 x 480. The scan lines get smaller at 1024 x 768 but they are still there, I just need to look carefully for them. At 1920 x 1440 they dissapear altogether...which is not surprising.

I do have a hard time looking for scanlines on the tubefaces, they just are too bright...if I turn down the contrast I do not see scanlines..Do I need to use sun-glasses?

Now the colors differ too... I see no scanlines on the red. I see good scanlines on blue and less scanlines on green.

So bottom line ..I'm a moron for not looking closely enough.

But I'll still say that the pic is soft to my taste. I hope I can make it better. Anyway, I guess I may want to bring down the PJ someday soon and pull it back to make a 120" image and see if the image gets any better/sharper.

BTW, Chip, I could not see that HD10L listing on the 'bay today.




As for the 'stig n centering

..the red and blue beam centering looks Ok. The green is screwed up ...it is shifted to the right side. I checked this using the cross hatch pattern. It is much easier to see beam centeriing this way.

I did not get a chance to check for astigmatism.. it was almost 11 PM and the dog wanted to go out and I was sleepy.

How do you guys do the 'stig and centering on the tube faces? I can't make out anything on the tube faces...the dots are just too tiny.

I do not want to burn up the pristine rasters so I am afraid of projecting dots at 95 contrast. Since I do not have enough experience with setting the stig and centering the beamsI think I will take longer and hence the dots and hatch patterns will be there for longer. Hence the risk of burn-in. If I can do it by looking into the lensesso much safer. But how??





Thanks everyone!
-Rajiv

-Rajiv
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post #119 of 464 Old 01-06-2006, 04:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tse View Post

1920 x 1440 is definately pushing it. The 4200 is a middle generation projector and it can't do what the later generation projectors can do. Anything much over about 1000 lines is going to be less than optimal. Your max res will be about 1366 x 1024. That's progressive. If you go interlace then 1920 x 1080i will look fantastic. The 1280 x 720p HDTV mode will look excellent, too. Your projector is more than capable of displaying the best video available (that I can find, anyway).


I agree tse,
I think I am just pushing it too hard. Still I am surprised that it does not mind and puts out an image (although a soft image).

Right now resolutions of up-to 1024 x 768 are reasonably sharp.

How can I feed any interlaced image from an HTPC ?

I plan to sort all thhis out this weekend. (well if the wife does not spend too much time out, furniture shopping)

Thanks !
Rajiv

-Rajiv
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post #120 of 464 Old 01-06-2006, 04:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi tse,
did you get a chance to look at my HOT board?

-Rajiv

-Rajiv
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