Which is better? The 1292 or G70??? - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 263 Old 02-06-2006, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W
Azzad tested his Moome Sony card and he said it was fine. Which one was Mark Haflich talking about exactly?
Quote:
As well, Clarence would be more than happy to attest to the moome input card in his G90. Actually, I think it's a bit "hot", which could be a good or bad thing depending on the situation.
Cliff
The problem is not obvious, nor is it a Moome card thing. At present it seems to be a DVI to RGBHV thing. It's not the opinion of mark Haflich and myself only. the same was also reported by Curt Palme and Dave (person) of this forum. It is also well known by some of the discerning EE's on the forum, who for some reason won't post on it, but have emailed me about it many times. It's also the reason why others have been waiting on Reinhards card (Evil twin forum)., and why some are still looking at analog transcoders. And it's the reason why the cards were being reported as NOT being a "performance Upgrade"

I've also been recommending the Moome card, but i'm also making it clear that it may not be a performance upgrade over what they already have, and for sure, if you have my lastest mods or have intentions on getting them, for sure you'll see what mark and others have also seen. And for that reason, I'll probably NOT recommend my lastest mods, because you may not notice much of a change in performance.

I'm surprised that not many people have been posting on this, especially those who have sent me PM's and emails.

I've recently recommended one of the Moome cards to one of my best customers (Jeff Smith). He called me last night asking if he should still go with the Moome card. I said yes, but don't go with it expecting a high performance product. For the price, it's a very good product.

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post #242 of 263 Old 02-07-2006, 12:51 AM
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Umm, ok, and what was actually the problem?

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post #243 of 263 Old 02-07-2006, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W
Umm, ok, and what was actually the problem?
It seems to be a problem for a few, and that may be the best way to put it. And again, it's not just with Moomes card. It's been noticed on every one of the DVI units we've looked at.

It's not a big deal, and most would probably not notice it at all. So far, it seems to have been something observed only by those who look for these types of things, or who have had a better reference before getting it.



btw, I'm no longer in the manufacturing business (the MP-5 is no longer available)

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post #244 of 263 Old 02-07-2006, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748
it's not just with Moomes card. It's been noticed on every one of the DVI units we've looked at.
Bingo. I've got 3 DVI converters here (moome, ophit, dtrovision) that we can compare side-by-side at my open house.

And I borrowed Tom W's moonjong at my last meet, but that was only with my Marquee, so we didn't get to see the 1080p output.

I don't think Reinhard's card will be ready in the next month or so, but if it is, I'm sure I'll either have one or we can borrow haflich's.

And I've still got a pile of transcoders... vdigi, petr's, altinex, ifb12, and MP could bring his retired MP5 and Bill has his KD.

Oh, and MP and I will have John's JVC 30K circuit to A/B.

Maybe tse can loan us his gamma circuit.

Ooh, and I'll have a SDI player and a couple of other surprises... Leeza vs Lumagen vs DVDO VP30.

And wait until you see HD files played back from a XBox360...

Oh yeah, I've got my G90 too.
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post #245 of 263 Old 02-07-2006, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence
Bingo. I've got 3 DVI converters here (moome, ophit, dtrovision) that we can compare side-by-side at my open house.

And I borrowed Tom W's moonjong at my last meet, but that was only with my Marquee, so we didn't get to see the 1080p output.

I don't think Reinhard's card will be ready in the next month or so, but if it is, I'm sure I'll either have one or we can borrow haflich's.

And I've still got a pile of transcoders... vdigi, petr's, altinex, ifb12, and MP could bring his retired MP5 and Bill has his KD.

Oh, and MP and I will have John's JVC 30K circuit to A/B.

Maybe tse can loan us his gamma circuit.

Ooh, and I'll have a SDI player and a couple of other surprises... Leeza vs Lumagen vs DVDO VP30.

And wait until you see HD files played back from a XBox360...

Oh yeah, I've got my G90 too.
My MP-5 will be quite pleased to hear this.. :D

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post #246 of 263 Old 02-07-2006, 05:01 AM
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I'm one of the guys Mike said that had a G-70 and sold it. Yes I did, sold it for a 9500 and then another 9500(sitting in my bedroom as a spare).

I really liked my G-70, looked good, and it was setup and calibrated by Terry.
But after seeing a few 9500's and 8500's moded by Mike I knew I had to have one of these. The G-70 just could not do the image I was seeing from these moded pj's. Blacks were just to die for, it's really hard to explain how well Mike has worked hard to get these mods to do what they do, you just have to see it! The noise in the image of the G-70 was another thing that bothered me. Mike eliminated the noise in the picture of the Marquee. The G-70's video chain is a very complex system which would be very difficult if not impossible to to clean up.

I have not yet seen a 1292, so I can't comment on it. Hope to see the one in Mike's shop soon though.

I liked and enjoyed my G-70, but, after seeing what Mike did with the Marquee's I knew I had to have one and would never be happy with my G-70 again.


John
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post #247 of 263 Old 02-07-2006, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence
Bingo. I've got 3 DVI converters here (moome, ophit, dtrovision) that we can compare side-by-side at my open house.

And I borrowed Tom W's moonjong at my last meet, but that was only with my Marquee, so we didn't get to see the 1080p output.

I don't think Reinhard's card will be ready in the next month or so, but if it is, I'm sure I'll either have one or we can borrow haflich's.

And I've still got a pile of transcoders... vdigi, petr's, altinex, ifb12, and MP could bring his retired MP5 and Bill has his KD.

Oh, and MP and I will have John's JVC 30K circuit to A/B.

Maybe tse can loan us his gamma circuit.

Ooh, and I'll have a SDI player and a couple of other surprises... Leeza vs Lumagen vs DVDO VP30.

And wait until you see HD files played back from a XBox360...

Oh yeah, I've got my G90 too.
Ooh, we can run those lines before the open house too ;) :D !


John
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post #248 of 263 Old 02-08-2006, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overclkr
I tried feeding 1080P to my G70 today with the VP30 and it's not happening. It does it, but it's soft. Not good enough for me by a long shot.
What's the story Cliff? In other words, why do you care about 1080p? I believe you've told us that scanlines don't bother you at your seating position now and people over here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7091043

are claiming that you don't need 1080p and can just run 1080i72. So, why not just run that?

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #249 of 263 Old 02-08-2006, 03:29 PM
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Well Cliff, you bought this on yourself. You were supposed to have purchased a Ruby. That G70 was not supposed to have.....never mind.

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post #250 of 263 Old 02-08-2006, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2
What's the story Cliff? In other words, why do you care about 1080p? I believe you've told us that scanlines don't bother you at your seating position now and people over here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post7091043

are claiming that you don't need 1080p and can just run 1080i72. So, why not just run that?

--Darin
Yep Darin, I did say that scanlines don't bother me at my seating distance, but that is also contributed to the throw of my G70 as well. It is back to far and as a result, the raster is smaller, so on my G70 I don't need 1080P, it looks fine at 1080i.

I only tried 1080P just to see how it would do and it failed. Too soft.

Now, if I had a well setup 9" projector in my theater, most definitely would I need 1080P. 1080I on a 9" IN MY OPINION on a large screen is not watchable. :)

Cliff
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post #251 of 263 Old 02-08-2006, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence
Bingo. I've got 3 DVI converters here (moome, ophit, dtrovision) that we can compare side-by-side at my open house.

And I borrowed Tom W's moonjong at my last meet, but that was only with my Marquee, so we didn't get to see the 1080p output.

I don't think Reinhard's card will be ready in the next month or so, but if it is, I'm sure I'll either have one or we can borrow haflich's.

And I've still got a pile of transcoders... vdigi, petr's, altinex, ifb12, and MP could bring his retired MP5 and Bill has his KD.

Oh, and MP and I will have John's JVC 30K circuit to A/B.

Maybe tse can loan us his gamma circuit.

Ooh, and I'll have a SDI player and a couple of other surprises... Leeza vs Lumagen vs DVDO VP30.

And wait until you see HD files played back from a XBox360...

Oh yeah, I've got my G90 too.
Dude, I hope you plan on turning that meet into a WEEKEND stay!!!!! :D

Thats a lot of stuff!!!!!!!

Cliff
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post #252 of 263 Old 02-08-2006, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748
Well Cliff, you bought this on yourself. You were supposed to have purchased a Ruby. That G70 was not supposed to have.....never mind.
Yep, I'm ALL ABOUT the BOOBS!!!

Whoops, I mean Bulbs!!!!!!! :D

Cliffy
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post #253 of 263 Old 02-08-2006, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overclkr
Yep Darin, I did say that scanlines don't bother me at my seating distance, but that is also contributed to the throw of my G70 as well. It is back to far and as a result, the raster is smaller, so on my G70 I don't need 1080P, it looks fine at 1080i.

I only tried 1080P just to see how it would do and it failed. Too soft.

Now, if I had a well setup 9" projector in my theater, most definitely would I need 1080P. 1080I on a 9" IN MY OPINION on a large screen is not watchable. :)
I understand about the 9", but if the G70 hadn't failed for 1080p what would you have expected to gain over 1080i?

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #254 of 263 Old 02-08-2006, 03:46 PM
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It seems that darin has been having a very difficult time with those well setup G70's. So he has now broaden his horizons, he's now after the not so well setup Marquee's..:D

Yo Darin, don't forget that there are also some other 9" CRT's out there, that I'm sure would make for a perfect convert. Its probably been years since they were properly setup, if ever setup properly at all.

Go get em! :D

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post #255 of 263 Old 02-08-2006, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techman707
Besides, there's nothing that I know of that can measure screen resolution from a scope. More voo doo, "touching the lens will throw it out of focus". :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by overclkr
That was a good one. :D
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Originally Posted by techman707
Opps......the heat came on and my picture just went out of focus. :p I better turn on the AC to cool it down. :D

Cliffy, you should be sitting back (watching your G70) and really laughing at this point. ;)
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Originally Posted by overclkr
Awwww schitt. The AC broke. NOW I'M SCREWED FOR THE SUPERBOWL!!!!!! :D

Cliff


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Baisey
1200P: Sony DVD w/MSB mod 1200P (rotary selectable downwards) out going to a NECXG1351LC Been there done it after having the porch settings redone by MSB and it did it well.

The next step down was 1024P did that to well, Id say 1050-60P about right but the customer liked it at 1200P.

One note. Dont over torque the lens focus wing nut, its that critical at that res. Doug
The kicker is that was 3-4 years ago.
Do I see some credibility fading? Bruce notice how Doug (formerly with NEC) and tse (currently with VDC) both state how critical lens postion is. So, who is the witch doctor and who is the expert?

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post #256 of 263 Old 02-08-2006, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2
I understand about the 9", but if the G70 hadn't failed for 1080p what would you have expected to gain over 1080i?

--Darin
On the G70, I don't expect anything over 1080i other than 768P and 720P. Both look fantastic.

1080P??? Nope. Like I said before, the ONLY 8" projector I have seen that comes close is the G70VR.

Cliff
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post #257 of 263 Old 02-08-2006, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo
Do I see some credibility fading? Bruce notice how Doug (formerly with NEC) and tse (currently with VDC) both state how critical lens postion is. So, who is the witch doctor and who is the expert?

Ericglo
Listen, I'm not going to discount the opinions. I've only seen one (look at post above) come close. I still do not think it is possible to get 100% rock solid properly focused corner to corner 1080P performance on 8" projectors period.

Show me a 8" projector that does 1080P as good as a G90 and I'll buy you one.

Cliff
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post #258 of 263 Old 02-08-2006, 09:33 PM
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Cliff from my recent experience the projector that works is the one you go with! :D

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post #259 of 263 Old 02-08-2006, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo
Do I see some credibility fading? Bruce notice how Doug (formerly with NEC) and tse (currently with VDC) both state how critical lens postion is. So, who is the witch doctor and who is the expert?

Ericglo
You're the witch doctor and I'm the expert. :D

I'd like to sell you a 1080p 8" projector, in addition, I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I want to unload. :p

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post #260 of 263 Old 02-09-2006, 04:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techman707
You're the witch doctor and I'm the expert. :D

I'd like to sell you a 1080p 8" projector, in addition, I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I want to unload. :p
Hey Bruce, does the bridge come with a ceiling mount??? :D

Cliffy
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post #261 of 263 Old 02-09-2006, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overclkr
I still do not think it is possible to get 100% rock solid properly focused corner to corner 1080P performance on 8" projectors period.

Show me a 8" projector that does 1080P as good as a G90 and I'll buy you one.

Cliff
Actually what you see when you focus the unit, will most likely change once the signal is involved. In other words, i could pull up a very high scan rate internal test pattern grid, and get perfect focus out to the edges, but once I pump a high resolution image in the RGB's that image will blur, if the video chain is not fast enough to handle it.

looking at lines (grids) is one thing, but to look at the lines (one pixel on/off) at higher scan rates, and to see how well those lines maintain black, is another.

If the lines fail to maintain black at high speeds, then the image will appear out of focus. That was the point that WM was making with his screen shots. Not sure about tse. But myself, I know the G90 has a much better focus circuit than the 9500. I know it produces very sharp lines (grids), but it would be nice if someone
could duplicate that same test pattern that WM did, and do it to show that same sharpness from the grids in an actual high speed image.

can someone do a screen shot of a G90 using WM's pattern?

If we could also duplicate that same pattern on an 8", but truly sharp, would that prove anything?

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post #262 of 263 Old 02-09-2006, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748
If we could also duplicate that same pattern on an 8", but truly sharp, would that prove anything?
Yes, a new found respect for 8" units. :D

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post #263 of 263 Old 02-09-2006, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overclkr
Hey Bruce, does the bridge come with a ceiling mount??? :D

Cliffy
Yes, but there's some welding involved. :p

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