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post #61 of 77 Old 03-09-2006, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2
Despite somebody claiming I was wrong in another thread with their claims about what BD+ on BluRay cannot do, I still consider it a "gray area" for some source devices coming up. This stuff may work now just like external HDCP stripper boxes work now, but if they use keys like those boxes that doesn't mean they will continue to work with upcoming HDCP sources like BluRay with BD+ where I don't think any of us knows either way whether these things will continue to work with that or not. As I've said elsewhere, we should have a better idea by June (since the Samsung BluRay box is scheduled for May 23rd). People can get mad about this if they want to, but there are still unknowns about these things continuing to work.
Agreed.

I think this will also allow us to see how the change in technology will play out.
Will consumers be willing to make the upgrade if the new sources require up to date inputs? Or will this set the 'A/V'philes even farther apart from the rest of society. In the perspective of CRT enthusiasts, I'm sure there will always be work arounds.
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post #62 of 77 Old 03-09-2006, 01:14 PM
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About HDMI input card for CRT :

I was searching for a hardware solution (in fact HDMI(HDCP) receiver) to implement a true HDMI (10/12 bits YCbCr digital) input to CRT projector.

I'm not the only one that is searching for this and we all facing that only 165MHz HDMI standalone receiver chip exists with digital video outputs ONLY (so without any video DAC embedded like we can find on 'older' DVI-D (HDCP) receivers) :( .

Since no external video DAC with capability to input 12 (even 10) bits with 165MHz pixelclock is available on the market until today, there is no hardware solution to design such 1080P 'HDMI' input board (even with a "two chips" solution).

However this situation could change in the next couple of months ;)

John

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post #63 of 77 Old 03-09-2006, 01:50 PM
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"I know that they don't have amps. the thought here is what I read on following cabling from one source to the next- ie.. If I start with one type of input from my projector to my preamp then i have to use the same type of cabling output.
Now that might not sound to horrid at this point, but I would like to stick to the HDMI I/Os that my ssp100 has alot of, and at the same time limit the numbers of cables needed for I/Os to and from the pre amp and amps and be able to get the best quality a/v experience available without having gigs of wires hanging from my equipment."

Heh I'm still confused. I doubt original poster wants audio from a CRT pj. So re-reading his post for the umpteenth time today, I see he wants to keep cabling identical, thus the need for HDMI from source to receiver, and HDMI from receiver to pj. I don't think he needs audio on that last segment of HDMI. And then something about preamps and amps which makes no sense to me from a video perspective.

Apart from getting your setup schematic to look spic and span, there isn't an obvious reason why you would want your cabling identical. Emphasis on 'obvious'.
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post #64 of 77 Old 03-09-2006, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linecircle
"I know that they don't have amps. the thought here is what I read on following cabling from one source to the next- ie.. If I start with one type of input from my projector to my preamp then i have to use the same type of cabling output.
Now that might not sound to horrid at this point, but I would like to stick to the HDMI I/Os that my ssp100 has alot of, and at the same time limit the numbers of cables needed for I/Os to and from the pre amp and amps and be able to get the best quality a/v experience available without having gigs of wires hanging from my equipment."

Heh I'm still confused. I doubt original poster wants audio from a CRT pj. So re-reading his post for the umpteenth time today, I see he wants to keep cabling identical, thus the need for HDMI from source to receiver, and HDMI from receiver to pj. I don't think he needs audio on that last segment of HDMI. And then something about preamps and amps which makes no sense to me from a video perspective.

Apart from getting your setup schematic to look spic and span, there isn't an obvious reason why you would want your cabling identical. Emphasis on 'obvious'.
You're 100% right to be confused, that's why I asked Kamel if he read the WHOLE thread. As for using an HDMI to DVI cable, I said that in post #28. Despite that and the fact that it turned into a discussion of 10/12 bit HDMI and the benefits of that vs. shades of gray, it failed to address the poster's question.

For whatever his reason, he ONLY wanted HDMI "WITH" audio, despite me insisting that it could serve no purpose on a stand alone front projector. :rolleyes:

As for any "gray area" dealing with HDCP and HDMI, sure there's a gray area, since there IS nothing that currently outputs 10/12 bit HDMI w/HDCP. If it's something in the future that's being referred to, the government has already refused to allow them to change the HDCP spec that would cause it to be incompatible with future and existing devices using HDCP. So unless they invent a "NEW" system altogether, I don't see the problem. :)

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post #65 of 77 Old 03-09-2006, 05:09 PM
 
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I'm not sure about the accuracy of the statement that 10 and 12-bit transmission is unavailable. I am fairly certain that there are many devices that can input and output in greater than 8-bit video. I believe many PC video cards have had >8-bit DACs for quite some time for analog output.
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post #66 of 77 Old 03-09-2006, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles
I believe many PC video cards have had >8-bit DACs for quite some time for analog output.
Yes, 10 bit DACs on a GeForce4 and presumably everything that comes after it too.
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post #67 of 77 Old 03-09-2006, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles
I'm not sure about the accuracy of the statement that 10 and 12-bit transmission is unavailable. I am fairly certain that there are many devices that can input and output in greater than 8-bit video. I believe many PC video cards have had >8-bit DACs for quite some time for analog output.
Back on the good drugs? We're talking about devices being made that HAVE HDMI OUTPUTS. :rolleyes: Not "ANY" device. ;)

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post #68 of 77 Old 03-09-2006, 08:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techman707
Back on the good drugs? We're talking about devices being made that HAVE HDMI OUTPUTS. :rolleyes: Not "ANY" device. ;)
I interpreted the statement above that he was trying to get higher-bitdepth video into his CRT and needed higher bit-depth DACs to do this from a digital source (HDMI). I was confused why he seemed to think this was impossible, because it's been possible for a long time now, given the example of video cards which have no problem outputting 1080p at higher bitdepths, which means that these DACs do exist. I naturally assume, but don't know, that 12-bit DACs exist as well that can and are used for 1080p content.

I'm glad you think I'm at least on actual drugs now, rather than just the "virtual" drug of digital-display induced dementia. ;)
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post #69 of 77 Old 03-09-2006, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles
I interpreted the statement above that he was trying to get higher-bitdepth video into his CRT and needed higher bit-depth DACs to do this from a digital source (HDMI). I was confused why he seemed to think this was impossible, because it's been possible for a long time now, given the example of video cards which have no problem outputting 1080p at higher bitdepths, which means that these DACs do exist. I naturally assume, but don't know, that 12-bit DACs exist as well that can and are used for 1080p content.

I'm glad you think I'm at least on actual drugs now, rather than just the "virtual" drug of digital-display induced dementia. ;)
Chris,

Doesn't ANYBODY bother to read the thread? You should "at least" read the question that an original poster asked. :rolleyes: He had NO interest or knowledge of any HIGHER BIT DEPTH, he "just" wanted to be able to have neater wiring. :D

btw- 12 bit DACs exist........SO WHAT? :eek:

HAVE A COKE and a smile.:D

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post #70 of 77 Old 03-09-2006, 10:04 PM
 
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I'm sorry about the confusion, I was referring to "JohnHWman" not the original poster.

Bruce, you crack me up! :)
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post #71 of 77 Old 03-09-2006, 10:05 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techman707
Chris,

Doesn't ANYBODY bother to read the thread? You should "at least" read the question that an original poster asked. :rolleyes:
Oh, and to answer this question, I mean come on. Don't be ridiculous with your expectations. This is the CRT forum after all. :p

-chris
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post #72 of 77 Old 03-09-2006, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Linecircle and Techman707
I am sorry for all of the confusion surrounding my question. I was not trying to fuel anything, nor was I implicating that I wanted neater wiring.
I was actually trying to find out if once I wired from a source would I have to continue using the same type of wiring throughout. meaning if I wanted to use HDMI from source to receiver and have to change to BNC from receiver to pj wouldnt their be an issue, or am I just confused? Do I have to stay with BNC the whole way or can I change? I read that keeping one type of wiring from source to receiver and thru to pj was a must. I trust that you two can alleviate the frustration that I am having with this issue.

and thanks for all of your input and feedback. I know where I can go to get help with problems, big or small.
I am new in the HT world and am trying to learn whatever I can.

Thanks,
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post #73 of 77 Old 03-09-2006, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles
.

Bruce, you crack me up! :)
Now wait a minute, I said have a coke and a smile, not, have some coke and smile. Don't try to blame me for you being all cracked up. If you stop heating that coke up and smiling while looking into your spoon, you won't get all "cracked up." :)

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post #74 of 77 Old 03-09-2006, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1gttoutid
Linecircle and Techman707
I am sorry for all of the confusion surrounding my question. I was not trying to fuel anything, nor was I implicating that I wanted neater wiring.
I was actually trying to find out if once I wired from a source would I have to continue using the same type of wiring throughout. meaning if I wanted to use HDMI from source to receiver and have to change to BNC from receiver to pj wouldnt their be an issue, or am I just confused? Do I have to stay with BNC the whole way or can I change? I read that keeping one type of wiring from source to receiver and thru to pj was a must. I trust that you two can alleviate the frustration that I am having with this issue.

and thanks for all of your input and feedback. I know where I can go to get help with problems, big or small.
I am new in the HT world and am trying to learn whatever I can.

Thanks,
1gttoutid
You can switch signal types at any point along its path if the equipment you're using will output a different type of signal. You can feed a source HDMI signal into your receiver and if available from the receiver, output DVI, 3 wire component, or 5 wire RGBHV to your projector.

Because the HDMI spec allows for 10 and 12 bit video, in theory, keeping the signal HDMI though the entire chain would appear to be the best choice. However, since there aren't any 12bit source video at this time, it shouldn't make any difference if you convert the HDMI to DVI. Just make sure that if you output HDMI from your receiver, you still have another output for your audio at the same time. On some pieces of equipment, when set to HDMI output, since it carries the audio, other outputs are not available at the same time, while on DVI outputs that don't carry audio, this problem doesn't exist.

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post #75 of 77 Old 03-10-2006, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by techman707
You can switch signal types at any point along its path if the equipment you're using will output a different type of signal. You can feed a source HDMI signal into your receiver and if available from the receiver, output DVI, 3 wire component, or 5 wire RGBHV to your projector.
Just wanted to add that if the source going into the receiver/scaler is HDCP protected then you should be able to go from it to an HDCP DVI port even if the input is HDMI, but you shouldn't be able to go component or RGBHV out from there.

--Darin

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post #76 of 77 Old 03-10-2006, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2
Just wanted to add that if the source going into the receiver/scaler is HDCP protected then you should be able to go from it to an HDCP DVI port even if the input is HDMI, but you shouldn't be able to go component or RGBHV out from there.

--Darin
That's true, when it sees the HDCP flags from the source, it will (or should) shut down the analog output ports. I originally said that the HDMI should be used with a HDMI to DVI cable and just use the DVI port. That's when all the posts started flowing about 10bit/12bit and audio. As I've said before, audio is useless when feeding a CRT FP, so at the present time, the BEST solution for anyone using a CRT and HDMI/DVI output cable box is to use a Moome DVI input card on the projector and feed it with either HDMI>DVI or DVI all the way. ;) But if you don't expect to see HDCP signals, you can use ANY type signal to feed the projector

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post #77 of 77 Old 03-10-2006, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles
I'm not sure about the accuracy of the statement that 10 and 12-bit transmission is unavailable. I am fairly certain that there are many devices that can input and output in greater than 8-bit video. I believe many PC video cards have had >8-bit DACs for quite some time for analog output.
Yes Chris,

I was refering to standalone triple RGB video DAC, not embedded inside GPU. It's a fact today on the market that high res/high pixelclock video DAC are not to be developped as standalone component since most HDMI receiver application is for digital video processing/display, not CRT which is analog ;)

For the original question of this tread, like Bruce, I must say that the Audio layer of the HDMI standard have no interrest for CRT display, only video.

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