Zenith Proo 1200 CRT v Sony Ruby - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Sony Ruby v Zenith Pro1200 CRT

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Currently have a Zenith Pro 1200x CRT fed by a Faroudja DCS. Very happy with picture etc. Considering replacing with Sony Ruby as I will not be able to feed BluRay or HDVD to Zenith with true 1080P as Zenith does not have HDMI input. In your expert opinions, what are the +'s & -'s and how will picture quality differ. FYI...Room is dark...screen is a vutec 1.3 gain. Thanks for the help
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post #2 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 08:03 AM
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the cost to run the Sony will be skyhigh compared to the Zenith. Why not add a moome box for HDMI?

The Sony is dimmer than the Zenith and has lots of startup problems. Just look at the >$3500.00 forum. If that isn't enough to scare you....

I'd wait at least 6 months before I'd consider the Ruby from what I've read here.

But if you sell the Zenith, be sure to email me first..:)

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post #3 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smf
Sony Ruby v Zenith Pro1200 CRT

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Currently have a Zenith Pro 1200x CRT fed by a Faroudja DCS. Very happy with picture etc. Considering replacing with Sony Ruby as I will not be able to feed BluRay or HDVD to Zenith with true 1080P as Zenith does not have HDMI input. In your expert opinions, what are the +'s & -'s and how will picture quality differ. FYI...Room is dark...screen is a vutec 1.3 gain. Thanks for the help
For the first you should await to the BluRay and HD-DVD software arrive. There is indication that the ICT-flag will not be used, Sony has confirmed that they will not use it for their Columbia/Tristar and MGM releases. They also said that they dosent consider analog in full-resolution as a security threat. However they said if the history would prove it otherwise they would start to use the ICT-flag.

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post #4 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme
But if you sell the Zenith, be sure to email me first..:)
Nope! Email me first! I need a backup machine! :)

Kal

P.S. If two other forum members named WTS or Person99 contact you, they're both lying. They don't need spares. :)
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post #5 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 09:13 AM
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If you can afford a Ruby, then you can afford to upgrade to a 9" CRT like the Marquee 9500LC or Barco 1209s. :)

"The boom is dead, long live the bass"
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post #6 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 09:15 AM
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kal, love to drive down to your gaff in Ottawa & take a look at your Zenith, compare it to my XG. Yours is LC right?
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post #7 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kal
Nope! Email me first! I need a backup machine! :)

Kal

P.S. If two other forum members named WTS or Person99 contact you, they're both lying. They don't need spares. :)
What about forum members who would just like to have one? ;)

Matt
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post #8 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 09:22 AM
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You could also post your Zenith in the AVS for sale forum, if you decide to sell. That or ebay would probably be your best bet for getting top dollar.

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post #9 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridebreck
What about forum members who would just like to have one? ;)

I'd like to have one!

HEY CURT! Got any more computer work that needs doin? :D How about heat, AC, CNC, mechanical engineering, 2D and 3D CAD, (very) rudimentary electronics... um... non-celestial marine navigation... car advice... I can do (and will, for the right PJ :D :D :D ) damn near anything!

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post #10 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 09:46 AM
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I'll one-up him...

You can have my soul... :D
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post #11 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YONEXSP
kal, love to drive down to your gaff in Ottawa & take a look at your Zenith, compare it to my XG. Yours is LC right?
Sent you a PM! ...and yes, it's LC!

Kal
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post #12 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kal
Nope! Email me first! I need a backup machine! :)

Kal

P.S. If two other forum members named WTS or Person99 contact you, they're both lying. They don't need spares. :)
You're right, I don't need a spare. I need a STACK. You really don't want that PJ to have to endure the cold great white north. I'll keep it warm and happy down here in TX!

Dave
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post #13 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 12:28 PM
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Too humid down there... much better in the dry cold then the wet south. :)

Kal
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post #14 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 02:26 PM
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kal, Person99 and others. Thanks for the Friday afternoon chuckle. :D

smf
Are you getting the idea that you should keep you Zenith? ;)

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post #15 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smf
Sony Ruby v Zenith Pro1200 CRT
... In your expert opinions, what are the +'s & -'s and how will picture quality differ. FYI...Room is dark...screen is a vutec 1.3 gain. Thanks for the help
You have asked a difficult question, which is why no one as attempted to answer it, other than the standard religeous reactionary comments you would expect. :)

Most of the people who have/will comment have never seen a Ruby, much less a A/B comparison of a Ruby to any CRT, which is why you get the standard religeous CW. :) :)

IMO, having compared a Ruby to a G70, G90, and Runco DTV1200, I would say for DVDs the performanceis very very very similar. The Ruby is sharper with slightly more detail, The CRts have better/longer blackout ( Finding Nemo trench scene). For DVHS/HDTV the Ruby is a clear winner.

I would not recommend "upgrading" from the Pro1200 simply for HDMI inputs. I think you will have other options, at the very least wait and see!
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post #16 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan
IMO, having compared a Ruby to a G70, G90, and Runco DTV1200, I would say for DVDs the performanceis very very very similar. The Ruby is sharper with slightly more detail, The CRts have better/longer blackout ( Finding Nemo trench scene). For DVHS/HDTV the Ruby is a clear winner.
Really... "very similar" and "clear winner" - this is BS!

Why not make this a real challenge, why don't you or someone near me, bring a Ruby to Mark Haflich's house. Or should I ask Mark to bring a Ruby to the gathering?

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post #17 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748
Really... "very similar" and "clear winner" - this is BS!

Why not make this a real challenge, why don't you or someone near me, bring a Ruby to Mark Haflich's house. Or should I ask Mark to bring a Ruby to the gathering?
Yes. death to the infidels, bomb yourself on them. :) :)

You might have missed the IMO part.

A Pro1200 owner asked
Quote:
Originally Posted by smf
Sony Ruby v Zenith Pro1200 CRT
... In your expert opinions, what are the +'s & -'s and how will picture quality differ. FYI...Room is dark...screen is a vutec 1.3 gain. Thanks for the help?
Why not take the time to give him your honest +/- opinion like he asked, instead of jumping on someone who gave theirs?
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post #18 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan
Yes. death to the infidels, bomb yourself on them. :) :)

You might have missed the IMO part.

A Pro1200 owner asked

Why not take the time to give him your honest +/- opinion like he asked, instead of jumping on someone who gave theirs?
I'm not jumping on you at all. Your opinion indicates that the only advantage the CRT had was "black out," which we all know is not true.

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post #19 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 09:30 PM
 
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I would have to agree with what Darin posted, if the 1200 is setup well and you enjoy it, it wouldn't be worth the cost to move to the Ruby which while not completely lateral, IMO, wouldn't really be too much of an upgrade overall.

If you intend to get more deeply into HD-DVD and BD, I think there may be more options in the future to look at than just the Ruby, which may not be quite so lateral.

disclosure: I may be slightly biased by the fact that I have an 808, which is an AC version of this chassis. Especially for DVD, IMO moving to a 1080p capable display is not a big improvement if you already have an LC-8-inch CRT setup and running nicely. However, if you watch a lot more HD content and will increase that in the future, there are definitely reasons to go towards 1080p capability, regardless of CRT or digital.
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post #20 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 09:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Your opinion indicates that the only advantage the CRT had was "black out," which we all know is not true.
Such as...?
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post #21 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles
Such as...?
[quote]IMO, having compared a Ruby to a G70, G90, and Runco DTV1200, I would say for DVDs the performanceis very very very similar. The Ruby is sharper with slightly more detail, The CRts have better/longer blackout ( Finding Nemo trench scene). For DVHS/HDTV the Ruby is a clear winner.

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post #22 of 319 Old 03-10-2006, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748
I'm not jumping on you at all. Your opinion indicates that the only advantage the CRT had was "black out," which we all know is not true.
Well the OP does not know, or he would not have posted the thread and asked for +/-!

Please list the advantages that you saw, so the OP can get a sense of what to expect.

The OP posted the same query in the digital forum. Here is a quote of a response he got.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRJAZZZ
I owned the 1200 ZENITH PRO, a few years ago . It is a very nice crt,( a modified BARCO 8" with LC lens's). Since I did not have both the RUBY, and the ZENITH in the same room, at the same time , it is some what difficult to give you any definitive comparisons, however I do remember the 1200 very well.

Anyway, I don't believe you will be in any way left wanting, with the RUBY in your theater. Of course it can't do absolute blacks the way the 1200 could (can), however save that one area, I think you will enjoy the RUBY more, in every other parameter (color, detail, focus, three dimensional immersive image, ease of use(much quieter) and you will also be ready for the new 1080p dvd;s with out trying to find a solution to have your 1200 work with them,(I do understand there probably will be a work around here, however you won't have to worry about it with the RUBY).

CHEERS, TC
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post #23 of 319 Old 03-11-2006, 12:26 AM
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Everyone takes it for granted that it will not be any hirez analog output, thats not definitive and probaly false. Take a look at this. I have for years tried to say that they wouldnt dare to do it, and for the obivious reason that it isnt necessary in sercurity-wise, analog hirez dosent create piracy-threat.


http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/thomasnorton/


Quote: (During the Q&A session, Sony's Don Eklund confirmed that Sony and MGM titles would be encoded on the discs at 1080/24p. The user will set the player to convert this native resolution as required to match the capability of his or her display. For most displays, the user will set the player for 1080/30i or 1080/60p. But if your display will accept 1080p/24 you can set it for that output, and the display will presumably double or (preferably) triple the frame rate to eliminate flicker. A display rate of 1080p/48 or 1080p/72 would eliminate the need for 3/2 pulldown, producing smoother motion and minimizing artifacts.

At this time Sony has no immediate plans to implement the Image Constraint Token (ICT). The ICT is the part of the AACS copy protection scheme (used in both Blu-ray and HD DVD) that forces the player to down-rez its analog component video output from the disc's 1920x1080 high definition resolution to 960x540p. The result: you will get high definition only from the player's digital video output (HDMI or DVI). Early HDTV adopters of component only sets would then be limited to standard definition 540p from their fancy new players.

But all of these early Sony and MGM titles will produce full high definition from both the analog component and digital video outputs of a Blu-ray player. Whether or not to turn on the ICT, however, will rest with each studio and may be done on a title-by-title basis. How other studios will implement this feature in their releases remains to be seen. )

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post #24 of 319 Old 03-11-2006, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan
Well the OP does not know, or he would not have posted the thread and asked for +/-!

Please list the advantages that you saw, so the OP can get a sense of what to expect.

The OP posted the same query in the digital forum. Here is a quote of a response he got.
Well, if the "OP" posted the same in the digital forum, then he should have also read the many threads where the ruby appears to be falling apart, so no matter how much better the rUBY looked to one or two individuals - IT STILL HAS SOME SERIOUS ISSUES.

And that response was from a guy who owned an 8" Barco two years ago, and for some reason, he can remember everything about that Barco, even when he looks at the rUby he has already purchased :rolleyes:

And in summery (again), the end results still seem to indicate that the CRT only wins in black, black out, fade to black, complete black, but the rubY wins in every other area.

My opinion of the rUby? If I thought it was all that, would I want one at my next gathering?

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post #25 of 319 Old 03-11-2006, 04:21 AM
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For the years that I have been on this forum, I've yet to complain about the rules. I have no interest in discussions on avatars or why this and that happens. I'm old enough to know that where ever you find people, you'll need some form of rules. It's not the people who are the problem. The problem is human nature, therefore we're all guilty of something from time to time. So rules are a good thing. However, and for the first time. I have a beef with this forum, and my beef has nothing to do with the threads that were closed or deleted, or the editing of post. I stay way from that type of thing, and let the folk in charge do their thing.

My problem is the anti trolling rule. Why is it that a thread is deleted when two CRT's get in a semi heated debate, yet trollers can post arguments and create major heated discussions and the threads are never deleted. I've seen times when trollers from the digital forum rebuked thier own folk for trolling over here, and yet those threads still exist.

Why can't the CRT forum, be a true CRT forum, and the rules stop the trolling, and allow us to have clear discussions without the kamakazee attacks from the other side.

I agree with the rules on the avatars for whatever reason. But the main reason seems to be "professionalism". Why dis-allow the avatars to maintain a forum of professionalism, but allow trolling and other unwanted debates and arguments?

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post #26 of 319 Old 03-11-2006, 09:08 AM
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I have had a Barco 801 and Marquee 9500LC/MP, and have seen Barco 808, Sony 1292, Barco cine 9, 9500LC bill blue modded, etc. I must say that not any of the CRT I have seen have looked better than my Ruby. Yes, the lower end is still little better on CRT but the depth I get from the Ruby, I have never seen on CRT. HDTV is VERY sharp and detailed BUT still film smooth.

Maybe a 100% set-uped G90/Cine 9/9500LC could be more in the same ballpark but I have not seen it, and I would guess that 80-90% of the people here don't have perfect set-uped CRT's.

So do try to look at a well set-uped Ruby in a light controlled room and see for yourself.


/Mattias

Sound and video is not magic, it is pure physics. Physics that can be magical
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post #27 of 319 Old 03-11-2006, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonHoyaFan
Why not take the time to give him your honest +/- opinion like he asked, instead of jumping on someone who gave theirs?
The OP asked for expert opinions. You are the only person I have ever met that claims he can NOT see SDE on a Sony HS51 at 1.75x screen width. That alone makes me question any of your video comparisons.

Besides, I gave my opinion, get the Ruby and sell the Zenith to me! :D

But, back to the OP. Go see one. It will really depend upon how well your Zenith is set up and your priorities if you like it better. I for one would not switch even if one was given to me. The Ruby still looks "too digital" in my opinion and is not as nice as my Zenith for watching movies (the main purpose of my theater). I still prefer the Zenith on HD because of the more natural and 3D look. As an FYI, the TPV reviewer liked the Ruby better than an 8" CRT and you may to. I don't because even as TPV noted, the CRT beat the Ruby in 3D look, dynamic range, and blacks. I consider dynamic range and 3D appearance to be among the most important image quality parameters. As an analogy, I consider todays crop of digital projectors to be like listening to an audio system that sounds impressive at first because it is loud and clear, but as you listen to it, you find it is thin and unnatural sounding, lacks the dynamic range to fully express the music and is missing the deep base. I wouldn't buy audio like that, why would I buy video like that?

Basically, the Ruby will cost you alot for a marginal improvement in a couple areas, but a loss in others. Combined with the higher operating costs, it doesn't seem like a deal to me. But if it does to you, I'll take that Zenith off your hands. :D

Dave
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post #28 of 319 Old 03-12-2006, 05:58 AM
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Gentlemen: I have never seen or for that matter heard of a ruby until I seen you talk about it on this forum so can I ask a stupid question?What do they look like and what site could I go to to see one?I did a quick search and couldn't find a photo of one. It would be nice to see what you are talking about.Thanks---Terry
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post #29 of 319 Old 03-12-2006, 06:25 AM
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Try googling VPL-VW100 that's it's "real" model number..

Here's one of the first links that pops up when I google it..

http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/1205sony/

=Brian
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post #30 of 319 Old 03-12-2006, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles
Such as...?
In the limited amout of testing I did on Ruby I found that (and this is in addition to ALL the other obvious problems that have been reported on the <3500 forum) ANSI C/R didn't appear as good as CRT when using the Accupel signal generator, the primary colors are WAY off from where they should be with no way to change them, and the most disturbing was the posterization that was produced by Ruby in certain scenes.

Terry

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