Need some help as I just got a Vidikron Vision One - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 134 Old 08-26-2006, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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I just got a Vidikron Vision One. The tubes looked perfect however when the tubes are powered up and I could see a faint line in the middle of all three tubes. Is it normal?

Also it only has a 5BNC input... what would be the recommended method of feedinmg my DVD signal into it?

I was offered 600usd for a faroudja line quadrupler. Should I take it up? I'm worry that the quadrupler would be useless if I were to switch from DVDs to BR/HD-DVD.

Please advise.
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post #2 of 134 Old 08-26-2006, 10:10 AM
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Hi Who

It could have to do with the banding phenomenon; what was the sodtware level on that machine? Press * to see the version level, V3.x or v4.x

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post #3 of 134 Old 08-26-2006, 10:29 AM
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You just "got" a vision one? please don't tell us someone just gave it to you because that won't foster any good will here what you have is a re-badged Electrohome Marquee 9500LC, one of the top 3 CRT projectors ever made.
Your options for feeding a signal into it are practically endless. The Faroudja scaler for $600. is an OK deal, they cost around $10k new. The biggest problem with older scalers is they don't accpet DVI/HDMI which is what all the new players ouput. The cheapest new scaler from Lumagen or DVDO is going to be $1000.+ and you can plug any source into it . The 5BNC input on a CRT is the same signal as the VGA port on your home computer. You will need a VGA/5BNC breakout cable to hook it up that way. 1920 x 1080 from a decent video card will throw the best pic on your V1. For PC DVD player software check out Theatre Tek
http://www.theatertek.com/Forums/index.php
I don' know if you have owned CRT projectros before, but if not You have a STEEP learning curve ahead of you, maybe post your location and ask for local help?
BTW, the video anamoly you describe is not a standard one found in tech.service bulletins AFAIK. I would start by cleaning the 3 mini RCA's on the Video input module with a little de-oxit on a Q-tip, From there I would look at the CLB and deflection processor board and do the same.

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post #4 of 134 Old 08-27-2006, 03:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I was wondering maybe I should get an Oppo DVD player to do the scaling and get an Ophit DDA to convert the HDMI signal into VGA. Has anyone tried to do it this way? Perhaps can share the results.
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post #5 of 134 Old 08-27-2006, 07:21 AM
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Based on what draganm was explaining, I would have one thing on my mind.....1080P. I could be wrong, but with the V1 (I've never seen one!), I'd be thinking current model scaler and a professional setup. The budget might be tight, but you've got one of the best projectors ever made as stated above, take advantage of the horsepower. You will be stunned beyond belief.

Jeff
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post #6 of 134 Old 08-27-2006, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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just ordered an Ophit DDA from Lenexpo.... hpoefully this will give a good conversion.
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post #7 of 134 Old 08-27-2006, 09:31 AM
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Who,

Back to Tim's question, what version software is it running?
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post #8 of 134 Old 08-27-2006, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi JBJR, I'm not too sure of the version yet... will try it tonight.
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post #9 of 134 Old 08-27-2006, 06:44 PM
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Hello

Horizontal line or vertical line? We need clues!!!!

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post #10 of 134 Old 08-27-2006, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tim View Post

Hello
Horizontal line or vertical line? We need clues!!!!

someone else here needs a clue too,ever get the feeling your typing into empty cyberspace?

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post #11 of 134 Old 08-27-2006, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
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hi tim... the lines are vertical... the technician said that its a normal phenomenon and he has seen it in the other projectors that he installed.
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post #12 of 134 Old 08-27-2006, 09:41 PM
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Whowillbe....congradulations on your purchase and welcome to the dark side!!!

I have no doubt you will enjoy this vision one!!!

Martin
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post #13 of 134 Old 08-28-2006, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whowillbe View Post

the lines are vertical... the technician said that its a normal phenomenon and he has seen it in the other projectors that he installed.

no it's not normal, that machine has a bad focus board.

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post #14 of 134 Old 08-28-2006, 12:22 PM
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Yeah....I was gonna say, I've never seen a Marquee or any other pj with vert. lines and it was considered normal. Yep, good chance it's the focus board.
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post #15 of 134 Old 08-28-2006, 07:33 PM
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I have an NEC 9PG xtra. I had a h-line through the middle. It turned out to be TOO much of one of the converence settings. I reset everything and was more careful about my electronic geometry setup.

-Greg
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post #16 of 134 Old 08-28-2006, 07:51 PM
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Tell me more about this vertical line/focus board issue. IF I were to have a Marquee with this focus board problem, what would I see?

That particular issue is one I haven't heard of before. No surprse. There's still a lot left to learn.


CJ
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post #17 of 134 Old 08-29-2006, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmjohnson View Post

Tell me more about this vertical line/focus board issue. IF I were to have a Marquee with this focus board problem, what would I see?
That particular issue is one I haven't heard of before. No surprse. There's still a lot left to learn.
CJ

With a bad focus board you will see vertical lines on a projected image, the lines will move left/right as you ramp EM focus up/down. due to it's location in the chassis, The focus board can easilly be damaged by a static discharge from any of the 3 tubes, same as the HDM. There is a Christie tech. bulleting to cut traces and add 3 resistors on all 3 channels of the F-board to remedy this. I think the "mod" is standard by the time you get to the first Ultra boards, even before they added the extra GEOM features to prevent banding.
You can actually see the mod in the top-middle of the photo in e-bay item 300021941560. There is a resistor flying off one of the amps in the middle of the board.

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post #18 of 134 Old 09-01-2006, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Tim,

The software version was 4.4...
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post #19 of 134 Old 09-03-2006, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I managed to do a rough setup of the projector yesterday... I used Oppo 970 connected to a HDMI to DVI adapter to a DVI-D to VGA transcoder (Ophit) to a mini gender changer to a VGA to 5 BNC break out cables.

WOW!!! The picture quality at 1080i was simply fantastic! Lotsa details. Flesh tone was spot on. ALl this while projecting onto a yellowish colored wall!

However when I later compare the images thrown out by the Vision 1 to Infocus 4805. I find that the different isn't that much. I guess the projector isn't optimally setup yet.
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post #20 of 134 Old 09-03-2006, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whowillbe View Post

However when I later compare the images thrown out by the Vision 1 to Infocus 4805. I find that the different isn't that much. I guess the projector isn't optimally setup yet.

ya think?
Your video-chain is a mess and I don't see how flesh-tones could possibly be "spot on" if your projecting on a Yellow wall? I would guess your realizing 50% of the machines spotential. A v1 is worth taking the time to set-up properly if you have the time to learn the process, or hire someone to do it?

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post #21 of 134 Old 09-03-2006, 09:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi dra,

Oh.. perhaps I shopuldn't have used the word 'spot on'....

Is there any way to simplify my video chain because that's the best that I can think off. (I'm not considering using a HTPC)
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post #22 of 134 Old 09-03-2006, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whowillbe View Post

Is there any way to simplify my video chain because that's the best that I can think off. (I'm not considering using a HTPC)

i'm assuming you mean the best cheap option? A machine like that really deserves a good scaler, but in lieu if that I would get a DVD player that upconverts over the component video outputs, like the Oppo helio's, $170. on flea bay item 220013847280. Plug it directly into a $200. Moome card with the component input jacks and a good Canare component cable. Still a $500. solution with the cable and shipping though
The trouble is that the mome card on the Marquee doesn't work well with the DVI port. AAMOF the DVI port on moome card doesn't even look as good as upscaled DVD from HTPC so using the Oppo is going to be tough. If you really want to stick with the Oppo then you will need a very good D/A transcoder. Unfortunately the Ophit is really an Office Express type of junk-box solution not intended for reference quality big screen displays. High Quality digital to analog conversion will be expensive, around $400. or more. Once you have that you need to avoid all those adapters, every one of them will induce ghosting and signal degradation. Basically a decent D/A transcoder like the older ditrovision and then a good breakout cable with no adapters. hopefully some others chime in with other suggestions?
IT's tough, that's why a lot of us run HTPC even though some of us, like me , hate computers.

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post #23 of 134 Old 09-04-2006, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draganm View Post

i'm assuming you mean the best cheap option? A machine like that really deserves a good scaler, but in lieu if that I would get a DVD player that upconverts over the component video outputs, like the Oppo helio's, $170. on flea bay item 220013847280. Plug it directly into a $200. Moome card with the component input jacks and a good Canare component cable. Still a $500. solution with the cable and shipping though
The trouble is that the mome card on the Marquee doesn't work well with the DVI port. AAMOF the DVI port on moome card doesn't even look as good as upscaled DVD from HTPC so using the Oppo is going to be tough. If you really want to stick with the Oppo then you will need a very good D/A transcoder. Unfortunately the Ophit is really an Office Express type of junk-box solution not intended for reference quality big screen displays. High Quality digital to analog conversion will be expensive, around $400. or more. Once you have that you need to avoid all those adapters, every one of them will induce ghosting and signal degradation. Basically a decent D/A transcoder like the older ditrovision and then a good breakout cable with no adapters. hopefully some others chime in with other suggestions?
IT's tough, that's why a lot of us run HTPC even though some of us, like me , hate computers.


Thought that the Oppo only was a killer at DVI not at component?
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post #24 of 134 Old 09-04-2006, 10:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draganm View Post

i'm assuming you mean the best cheap option? A machine like that really deserves a good scaler, but in lieu if that I would get a DVD player that upconverts over the component video outputs, like the Oppo helio's, $170. on flea bay item 220013847280. Plug it directly into a $200. Moome card with the component input jacks and a good Canare component cable. Still a $500. solution with the cable and shipping though
The trouble is that the mome card on the Marquee doesn't work well with the DVI port. AAMOF the DVI port on moome card doesn't even look as good as upscaled DVD from HTPC so using the Oppo is going to be tough. If you really want to stick with the Oppo then you will need a very good D/A transcoder. Unfortunately the Ophit is really an Office Express type of junk-box solution not intended for reference quality big screen displays. High Quality digital to analog conversion will be expensive, around $400. or more. Once you have that you need to avoid all those adapters, every one of them will induce ghosting and signal degradation. Basically a decent D/A transcoder like the older ditrovision and then a good breakout cable with no adapters. hopefully some others chime in with other suggestions?
IT's tough, that's why a lot of us run HTPC even though some of us, like me , hate computers.

Hmm... I've not gotten a chance to see a properly set up CRT so I'm not too sure of the ability.... With regards to the Ophit, it seems to be rather capable. So do you think its better that I used a line quadrupler instead? Cause in this case, I can simplify the video chain.
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post #25 of 134 Old 09-05-2006, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whowillbe View Post

So do you think its better that I used a line quadrupler instead? Cause in this case, I can simplify the video chain.

no one calls them "quadruplers" anymore, the correct term is Video Scalers They are the best solution but they start at around $1500. for a good one.
http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=hdp_details
I like the Lumagen's because they have a 5BNC ouput option which eliminates the crappy little VGA plug. If you buy a used scaler, make sure it's not tool old, you want at least 2 DVI input's. One for cable/sattelite and the other for a DVD player. A Toshiba HD-DVD feeding 720P to a Lumagen and upscaling to 1080P out from 5BNC jacks would be awesome.
The only drawback is the scalers don't accept 1080P in the DVI ports, so if by some miracle Sony Blue Ray turns out to be something other than a pice of shi*t, you won't be able to pass it through/transcode it to RGB. The real problem is that that source technology is changing so fast that manufactuers of set-top boxes are having a hard time keeping up.
So maybe the question to be asked is "what should I do right now"? I would get a Moome DVI card for $200. Plug the Oppo directly into it and set up the machine at 720P, not 1080i.Even though this won't be the best possible solution, If you set up the V1 correctly with a good mechanical alignmentand, correctly adjust the vido levels, G2, etc. there should be no comparison to the Optoma or any DLP for that matter. Then wait for next Spring and the format war to end, dust to settle before upgrading your source to something putting out native HD.

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post #26 of 134 Old 09-05-2006, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draganm View Post

If you set up the V1 correctly with a good mechanical alignmentand, correctly adjust the vido levels, G2, etc. there should be no comparison to the Optoma or any DLP for that matter. Then wait for next Spring and the format war to end, dust to settle before upgrading your source to something putting out native HD.

Hmm... what's G2? And how do I adjust it?
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post #27 of 134 Old 09-06-2006, 08:33 AM
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G2/Drive are in the service menu, "color temp. adjustment" and most amatuers I've seen who tried to adjust it just made it worse. If you don't understand what it is and it's relationship to white balance you should probabll leave it alone. If you really want to proceed you can look at this web-site.
http://www.etechvideo.com/techtips.htm
Hint: write down the original settings in case you really screw it up.

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post #28 of 134 Old 09-17-2006, 09:39 PM - Thread Starter
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some shots of the projector.









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post #29 of 134 Old 09-17-2006, 11:08 PM
 
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Where are you located?

You need to have someone help you set this up. Otherwise, brew some pots of coffee and read through Guy Kuo's holy focus guide multiple times. And all the stuff on Tim's site. And Curt's site.
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post #30 of 134 Old 09-18-2006, 12:03 AM - Thread Starter
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hi Chris...

It looked bad on the photo is it??? I'm playing it off the wall... my installer will be installing the projector for me over the weekend. hopefully by then it'll look better.
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