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post #181 of 283 Old 09-28-2006, 08:43 PM
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A few more

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post #182 of 283 Old 09-28-2006, 08:45 PM
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And the final

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post #183 of 283 Old 09-28-2006, 08:55 PM
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Where can I get the images from that shootout disc?

I want to play.


CJ
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post #184 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmjohnson
Where can I get the images from that shootout disc?

I want to play.


CJ
Extron still has this or maybe later versions of the shootout disk on their website. I knew there was something shootout there several years back.

Or do anyone know of a downloadable static 1920x1080p file that can be used by everyone for comparison. Something with a lot of text or busy background detail would be perfect.

Oh, I forgot to post one other image from the disk. Ever hear of goo?
LL

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post #185 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 05:23 AM
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What is the Extron disc? A DVD? As in 720x480?....

I think we need shots of HD test patterns. ecrabb posted a good one at 1920x1080 a while back, and then there's Robro's bitmap, as well as tse's SMPTE bitmap.

I have these, except for tse's one. PM me your e-mail address Mike and I'll send them over.

And yep, the OP NEEDS a better video card.

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post #186 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W
What is the Extron disc? A DVD? As in 720x480?....
It's a test pattern CD, that has various native rate test pattern programs that are at PC resolutions. Each one of the programs has various images and some also have test patterns. And there's also test patterns as well, that will run at whatever rate the PC is set to.


Quote:
I think we need shots of HD test patterns. ecrabb posted a good one at 1920x1080 a while back, and then there's Robro's bitmap, as well as tse's SMPTE bitmap
I'll soon have a later version of the Extron Shootout disk that has the HD images. The one I have only has PC resolutions.



Quote:
I have these, except for tse's one. PM me your e-mail address Mike and I'll send them over
Cool, I'll shoot you my email address.

While I have your attention. can you explain why I'm getting flickering at 1920x1080p/60?

And though 1920x1080p/72 is a higher bandwidth and is usually not really watchable, if the PJ can do it, it looks way better than 1920x1080p/60.

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post #187 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 06:27 AM
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Email sent, including the SMPTE one I thought I didn't have.

And glad to here the extron disc is not DVD video!!

1080p 60hz would be just above my personal flicker threshold, it should be solid, I dunno why you're seeing flicker.

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post #188 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 06:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Chip,
I tried changing the blanking but the lines do not change.

As for the blanking errors, I am confused :confused: I have double checked, the blanking is wide open on all 4 sides.

The controls do work (as they should) but by default (after I did a channel null) the blanking was wide open.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stefuel
Yes I do and I'm not talking to you any more till you do ;)
That pattern abouve shows me blanking errors that these are famous for so bite me. :D

Chip

-Rajiv
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post #189 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
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HI Scott,
I am waiting with bated breath for the SMPS fix! :)

As for the bandwidth adjustment, I dont have the extender board. Any other way to do it?


As for 4200 being the first one.... The first version of anything is the "bleeding edge".

OMG! We are bleeding !We are bleeding ! ;)

-Rajiv


Quote:
Originally Posted by tse
Yep, you're right. I tried it on my 4200 and it doesn't work that way, either. It has the earlier version of CPU and remote control. You have to push the cut-off button then the color button of choice. My 2000 has the later version CPU and remote. With it you just hold down the button. Shows what I've forgotten.

Speaking about forgotten. I was talking with a co-worker and he reminded me that the 4200 was Ampro's first mag focus projector. The 2300 came later. That was thirteen or so years ago.

The lines that you are seeing look like noise from the SMPS. I see it in my 4200, too. It's not in my 2000 so there should be a fix. I'll let you know.

The RGB board has some small tuning capacitors that are for adjusting the bandwidth. If you have an extender card, extend the board, display the resolution pattern and adjust upper left box for correct responce. Adjust so box is white, not yellowish or purpleish. It won't adjust enough to make 1080p right but it might help some. In any case you can balance the responce at 1080i. The caps are just about in the center of the board. The tweeker is pointing at the blue one in the pic.

Scott

-Rajiv
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post #190 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 06:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcpherv
rajdude,
I scanned the thread, and although there was brief talk about your video card, I don't think anyone has reinforced this enough - I'm almost certain it is what is causing your image softening at high resolutions (well, predominantly here - projector bandwidth will cause a bit as well, but I wouldn't think its near as bad as your screenshots). I remember lots of talk around here about removing the filter networks on the rgb outputs of the video cards from around the time period your card is from - and your card is a low end model from its time. I would really suggest upgrading to at least a Nvidia 5700 based card or better.
Vic

Ok Vic, I am game! Only if I can find a better card. ;)

But lets ask others here what VGA card are they using, Guys?

Oh by the way, this card has a DVI output, I am using a DVI to VGA adapter (which came wiht the card)

-Rajiv
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post #191 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 06:53 AM
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FWIW, the screenshot of my BG1208s/2 (earlier in this thread) was made with a XfX Geforce 6600GT with two DVI outputs. I used the second DVI output, and also used the DVI to VGA adapter supplied with the card.

6600GT > DVI-VGA adapter > VGA extender cable > VGA-RGBHV cable > Barco

Tonight I will try the following:

6600GT > DVI cable > Moome box > VGA-RGBHV cable > Barco

I've just acquired the Moome box (Moome had sent two to the former owner who had ordered only one) I don't think this will change much (with regards to PQ), but you'll never know for sure if you don't try it!
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post #192 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rajdude
I dont have the extender board. Any other way to do it?
-Rajiv
Yeah, you can borrow one of mine..

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post #193 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W
Email sent, including the SMPTE one I thought I didn't have.
WoW! I got it, it's exactly what the doctor ordered... :)... it's a true 1920x1080 pattern.

:cool:

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post #194 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 08:45 AM
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Here's another one, Mike -- not sure if it's the same one as what Mark sent you. It's a 1920x1080 PNG file with a test pattern on it -- Scott's SMPTE pattern in the center & corners, grayscales, etc.

 

SMPTE1080.zip 40.349609375k . file
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post #195 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Everyone,
here are the test patterns which Mark sent me.
( I hope it is OK with Mark)

Click here to Download

It is a zip file

-Rajiv
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post #196 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 10:07 AM
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these are patterns from the NEC software:


Preview:



the actual patterns are attached as a .zip file.

They are losslessly compressed PNG files at 1920x1080 pixels

Kai

 

NECpatterns.zip 125.1689453125k . file
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post #197 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 10:25 AM
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This is a test pic composed of royalty free stock images:

http://upload.georgeownsme.com/thumbs.php/6290.png

It is losslessly compressed (PNG). Resolution is 1920x1080 pixels.
It has plenty of fine detail and some text elements.
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post #198 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I LOVE this image !

Gotta get home to project it

A BIG thanks!


Quote:
Originally Posted by kschmit2
This is a test pic composed of royalty free stock images:

http://upload.georgeownsme.com/thumbs.php/6290.png

It is losslessly compressed (PNG). Resolution is 1920x1080 pixels.
It has plenty of fine detail and some text elements.

-Rajiv
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post #199 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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This is really good !

Just in case someone is wondering (like me) where to get the actual software it can be downloaded here:

http://www.softpedia.com/progDownloa...load_locations


Quote:
Originally Posted by kschmit2
these are patterns from the NEC software:


Preview:
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/6...rintky3.th.png


the actual patterns are attached as a .zip file.

They are losslessly compressed PNG files at 1920x1080 pixels

Kai

-Rajiv
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post #200 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kschmit2
This is a test pic composed of royalty free stock images:

http://upload.georgeownsme.com/thumbs.php/6290.png

It is losslessly compressed (PNG). Resolution is 1920x1080 pixels.
It has plenty of fine detail and some text elements.

That's what i'm looking for. Something that has a lot of resolution.

Now where can I get it. When i save it to disk, it's comes out as a very low resolution image (H/V).

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post #201 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 04:21 PM
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I've looked at the test patterns that were posted (thanks). The smpte patterns appear to not be native, or seem to be transfered to another system. When using them there's banding or some form of distortion like bars in the top two elements of the patterns.

The NEC test pattern is very nice and the resolution section of the pattern is clean and even.

The resolution pattern in DMW (Display mate for Windows), seems to be perfect. I'd have to wait until later to capture that image.

In fact, their whole resolution section of the program is nice. I managed to capture a picture of a very good test pattern at 1920x1080p/72. it's very similar to the pattern that WM had posted some time ago. Like WM, I find it to be a much better test for both bandwidth and speed. i'm not really liking the smpte patterns, even the Zenith one seems to be a transfer to another system, because it has some slight edging (EE).

So instead of small sections at a time of the screen, lets move to the more difficult and much easier to get in its original form.

I also learned that I need to turn up the contrast on the projector when taking the pictures.
LL

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post #202 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748
Now where can I get it. When i save it to disk, it's comes out as a very low resolution image (H/V).
Mike, you're probably saving the thumbnail he posted. If you're using IE, make sure you choose "Save TARGET As..." (save the pic his link points to), not "Save PICTURE As..." (save the pic displayed in your browser, i.e. the thumbnail).

Or just click on the thumbnail to display the big pic, then save that one.
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post #203 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 05:16 PM
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Mike the pictures I sent you are 1920x1080, or small 1:1 bitmaps that you use Wallpaper/Tile to fill the screen.

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post #204 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 05:18 PM
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Mike, which pattern is that last one you posted? I've seen it before, but I forget what it is...

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post #205 of 283 Old 09-29-2006, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Mike,
Try the NEC software itself, maybe it will eliminate the distortion.

I am going to try it now.

-Rajiv


Quote:
Originally Posted by mp20748
I've looked at the test patterns that were posted (thanks). The smpte patterns appear to not be native, or seem to be transfered to another system. When using them there's banding or some form of distortion like bars in the top two elements of the patterns.

The NEC test pattern is very nice and the resolution section of the pattern is clean and even.

The resolution pattern in DMW (Display mate for Windows), seems to be perfect. I'd have to wait until later to capture that image.

In fact, their whole resolution section of the program is nice. I managed to capture a picture of a very good test pattern at 1920x1080p/72. it's very similar to the pattern that WM had posted some time ago. Like WM, I find it to be a much better test for both bandwidth and speed. i'm not really liking the smpte patterns, even the Zenith one seems to be a transfer to another system, because it has some slight edging (EE).

So instead of small sections at a time of the screen, lets move to the more difficult and much easier to get in its original form.

I also learned that I need to turn up the contrast on the projector when taking the pictures.

-Rajiv
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post #206 of 283 Old 09-30-2006, 02:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyfritz
Mike, you're probably saving the thumbnail he posted. If you're using IE, make sure you choose "Save TARGET As..." (save the pic his link points to), not "Save PICTURE As..." (save the pic displayed in your browser, i.e. the thumbnail).

Or just click on the thumbnail to display the big pic, then save that one.
Ok, done. thanks.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W
Mike the pictures I sent you are 1920x1080, or small 1:1 bitmaps that you use Wallpaper/Tile to fill the screen.
I'll try this later tonight. I was wondering why the border were still present.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_A_W
Mike, which pattern is that last one you posted? I've seen it before, but I forget what it is...
This is one of the resolution patterns in Displaymate for Windows. It's very similar to the one that WM had posted some time back. I'll also post a picture later of their one pixel on/off center and four corner pattern which is also perfect.

The REAL challenge is being able to display a full screen pattern. this is also what WM had posted. A one pixel on/off vertical for one test, and then a one pixel horizontal for the other. Then you'd want to show a full field pattern like the one I have in my last photo.

Rajiv,
the resolution pattern on the NEC shows up perfect just like what I get with displaymate. The one pixel off/on vertical lines in NEC resolution section of their combined pattern is also perfect.

I got this from a smpte manual, and where I found out that I was upposed to increase the contrast:

"The spatial resolution (linearity) and aliasing (distortion) of your monitor are within acceptable limits if the high contrast bar patterns in the test image are distinct as simple patterns of black and white pairs

Using the pattern: In each corner of the image as well as in the very center (see arrows on image at left), inspect the 6 squares filled with varying widths of alternating black/white horizontal and vertical lines. You should be able to differentiate all the lines, from fat to narrow (6 pixels, 4 pixels, and 2 pixels) and both horizontally and vertically"

So this somewhat explains the distortion that I'm seeing with some of the patterns. Why is it not on all the one pixel on/off patterns?

Anyway, I'll try redoing the patterns and will save the png pattern and will post them later today after I spend more time on the projector.

Who has that resolution pattern that WM had posted some time back. Since it is the most difficult of them all to display, then let's use it as a reference as well.

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post #207 of 283 Old 09-30-2006, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyfritz
Mike, you're probably saving the thumbnail he posted. If you're using IE, make sure you choose "Save TARGET As..." (save the pic his link points to), not "Save PICTURE As..." (save the pic displayed in your browser, i.e. the thumbnail).

Or just click on the thumbnail to display the big pic, then save that one.

I got it. It's full 1920x1080P...yippee....and it's seriously AWESOME!

I just put it up on the PJ. It's very sharp and distinct - perfect!

OoooOOOOOOOooooohhhhh!!!! :D

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post #208 of 283 Old 09-30-2006, 04:00 AM
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glad you like it :)

Kai
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post #209 of 283 Old 09-30-2006, 05:47 AM
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Kai,
I've attached a few screenshots of that image. They're no the best right now because of the light that's now in the room.

later tonight I'll dial the projector in and will work more with the camera. I have a lot to learn about the camera. I've only had this camera a few day, and this is the only experience I have with screenshots. I still have to figure out how to use the timer. I have the camera on a tripod, so that's out of the way.

And I wish I knew why it flickers at 60hz. So these are in 1920x1080p @ 72hz

I'll tighten things uo later today, and we'll revisit this image..

Oh, this is still the 8500ultra with the worn tubes that has very high hours on them. I have a 9500 at the shop, that I'm waiting for a free set of LUG's for. After that happens and I get the tubes swapped out to the Ultra, I'll be back into the 9" camp. but for now, I'm hoping to retube this 8500, and use it to spank the Ruby.

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post #210 of 283 Old 09-30-2006, 06:37 AM
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same sections as posted by Mike.

NEC 6PG plus at 1920x1080i95.904

unscaled crop:
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/5...clipbz4.th.png

downscaled screenshot:
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/6...x600ix6.th.png
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