Midwest BLENDZILLA demonstration meet!! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 690 Old 09-28-2006, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Guys and Gals,

Now that I know that my second G90 is on its way and provided she doesn't show up damaged, Tim kindly offered up his Blendzilla solution for us to check out!

The closing date on my home is November 22nd, and was looking at Saturday December 9th to demo the Blendzilla for all to see!

Of course my new house will be in disarray because of the family and I just moving in so I'm going to consider it a PRE theater construction meet.

All who are interested please chime in and we'll keep tabs on the amount of attendee's. My new home is located in St. John, Indiana, and there are plenty of nice hotels just north if your looking to make a night of the meet.

I'm considering making my screen out of SMX accoustical material and will probably be projecting the stack/blend on a 10-11ft wide screen.

Let me know what you think!!

Cliff
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post #2 of 690 Old 09-28-2006, 04:50 PM
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Very nice!!!

How I would LOVE to be there!!!

Try 13ft wide in 2.35:1 and let me know what you think!

-Andres

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post #3 of 690 Old 09-28-2006, 05:18 PM
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hmmm, sure sounds like someone is trying to knock Art off his throne?

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post #4 of 690 Old 09-28-2006, 05:43 PM
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im starting to feel the pain already

My new Company... CNG Conversions
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no theater here in Memphis :(
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post #5 of 690 Old 09-28-2006, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by draganm View Post

hmmm, sure sounds like someone is trying to knock Art off his throne?

Yea ,and I hadn't even finished wiping ! Cliff, lets see if we can get Stewart to loan us the appropiate screen. I think 11' to 12' wide would be right don't you think ?

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post #6 of 690 Old 09-28-2006, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by antorsae View Post

Very nice!!!

How I would LOVE to be there!!!

Try 13ft wide in 2.35:1 and let me know what you think!

-Andres

I'd really like to do that, but since I wont be doing that aspect when my theater is done, I dont want to "hook" myself on that format considering all I do by wowing myself!

Cliff
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post #7 of 690 Old 09-28-2006, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by draganm View Post

hmmm, sure sounds like someone is trying to knock Art off his throne?

Absolutely not.

If it wasn't for Art, I wouldn't have done this.


Cliffy
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post #8 of 690 Old 09-28-2006, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Yea ,and I hadn't even finished wiping ! Cliff, lets see if we can get Stewart to loan us the appropiate screen. I think 11' to 12' wide would be right don't you think ?

Art

That would be awesome big dog. How do I go about?????

Have you seen the SMX material? I emailed sandman today and asked for a sample.

Cliff
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post #9 of 690 Old 09-28-2006, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by overclkr View Post

That would be awesome big dog. How do I go about?????

Have you seen the SMX material? I emailed sandman today and asked for a sample.

Cliff

Well since this is between CEDIA and CES perhaps they have something we can get.I'll see what I can do. Only a couple of contacts. The only new Steawrt I know of is the 1.3 without grain that Joe Kane discussed at CEDIA

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post #10 of 690 Old 09-28-2006, 06:46 PM
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I'd love to come see it. Will be slick to see how this compares to Art's stack.
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post #11 of 690 Old 09-28-2006, 06:49 PM
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Put me down for a confirmed! My buddy and I would love to make the trip. Besides, it'll be nice to meet you in person. After all, you are one of my "video-dorks" as my wife calls all of us! It's funny that she never shy's away from boasting (every chance she gets) about the DIY theater that her "main video-dork" has put together. And now that I think of it, it's also funny that that is ALL she boasts about her "main video-dork". I guess I need to get back to the push ups and sit ups!


Mike

I'VE RECENTLY COME TO THE REALIZATION THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE CLIFFY AND THEREFORE I AM HAPPY WITH JUST ONE G90! and an RS1 shhhhhhhhhh!
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post #12 of 690 Old 09-28-2006, 06:55 PM
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Congratulations on new house and a great housewarming party to get things started

Are you basically doing an in-home audition of Blendzilla? Or do you plan on stacking your G90s instead? I'm sure either way, you can't go wrong...

I've seen the Blendzilla unit in person, and it's got video-geek written all over it

- Steve O.
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post #13 of 690 Old 09-28-2006, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Well since this is between CEDIA and CES perhaps they have something we can get.I'll see what I can do. Only a couple of contacts. The only new Steawrt I know of is the 1.3 without grain that Joe Kane discussed at CEDIA

Art

Excellent my friend. Your help is El-Mucho-Appreciated!

Cliffy
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post #14 of 690 Old 09-28-2006, 06:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dochlywd View Post

Put me down for a confirmed! My buddy and I would love to make the trip. Besides, it'll be nice to meet you in person. After all, you are one of my "video-dorks" as my wife calls all of us! It's funny that she never shy's away from boasting (every chance she gets) about the DIY theater that her "main video-dork" has put together. And now that I think of it, it's also funny that that is ALL she boasts about her "main video-dork". I guess I need to get back to the push ups and sit ups!


Mike

Exercise??? What's that?

Looking foward to you coming up Mike.

Cliff
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post #15 of 690 Old 09-28-2006, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scorch123 View Post

Congratulations on new house and a great housewarming party to get things started

Are you basically doing an in-home audition of Blendzilla? Or do you plan on stacking your G90s instead? I'm sure either way, you can't go wrong...

I've seen the Blendzilla unit in person, and it's got video-geek written all over it

- Steve O.

Thanks much Steve,

I'm going to be doing an in-home audition of the Zilla albeit it will take place in my unfinished basement, but, I will make sure the light control is of the utmost importance.

After the meet, construction will begin.....

Cliff
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post #16 of 690 Old 09-28-2006, 07:25 PM
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This sounds so much like my stack test at the local hotel conference room in January 2004 for me. It worked on Sunday I called the builder to demolish my old theater on Monday. It has been almost three years. I remember telling Ken as we were getting things together that this was perhaps the most exciting time of my life. I was going to get my dream theater that I had wanted for twenty five years ! I bet you must feel the same Cliff.

I'll see about a "Videodork" T Shirt for the event.

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post #17 of 690 Old 09-28-2006, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

This sounds so much like my stack test at the local hotel conference room in January 2004 for me. It worked on Sunday I called the builder to demolish my old theater on Monday. It has been almost three years. I remember telling Ken as we were getting things together that this was perhaps the most exciting time of my life. I was going to get my dream theater that I had wanted for twenty five years ! I bet you must feel the same Cliff.

I'll see about a "Videodork" T Shirt for the event.

Art

Art,

With all of the crap I've been dealing with this year it's been really difficult for me to be in a REALLY good mood. I'm hoping that improves dramatically soon......

I am EXTREMELY excited about what I am going to have and cannot believe it's actually happening. You know how I felt day one of my visit to your place. My Jaw went through the floor of your theater and ended up in the bathroom on the first floor!

I've been ADDICTED ever since.

Not to mention, I made a kick ass friend to boot!

Cliffy
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post #18 of 690 Old 09-29-2006, 05:52 AM
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Of course, I'll be there to tweak the twins.


Ken Whitcomb

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post #19 of 690 Old 09-29-2006, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Of course, I'll be there to tweak the twins.


Ken Whitcomb

Um..... Gwedo was going to be visiting you if you told me you weren't.

Cliffy
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post #20 of 690 Old 09-29-2006, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overclkr View Post

Um..... Gwedo was going to be visiting you if you told me you weren't.

Cliffy

You know my uncle?

I would love to come see your NEW STUFF.

Walt
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post #21 of 690 Old 09-29-2006, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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You know my uncle?

I would love to come see your NEW STUFF.

Walt

Looking foward to your visit Walt.

I was talking to Arli and we are going to at least try to have the theater framed out. It's gonna be a rough time trying to get it done, but I think we can get it accomplished.........

Cliff
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post #22 of 690 Old 09-29-2006, 12:35 PM
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Hi Cliff,

I'm new on this block, but I would suggest that if you have ANY regard for your wallet - don't see the BlendZilla. You know how it is, you get a HT idea in your head and the next minute you're massaging the finances to make room for the next "tweak." You're going to end up like Rip Van Winkle, wandering around Chicago with images of the BlendZilla playing on a loop in your head.

Seriously, though, when you take the Zilla for a spin, do try a 2.35 blend, for all of the reasons that Nick has stated. I went with a 120" wide 1.78 screen, because it fit my overall space, but if you're dedicating a room as an HT there is no reason not to go 2.35. There are some compelling bandwidth reasons, as well.

So everyone's running their G90s at 1080p60, and damn happy with the sharpness of the image, right? Because 1080p72 loses a little bit of sharpness?

For bandwidth, that's the difference between about 2200 (1920 plus a few for porches) by 1125 (1080 plus a few) by 60 or 72. So that's the difference between 148.5mhz (@60) and 178.2mhz (@72). Or put this way:

2200 x 1125 x 60 = 148.5mhz
2200 x 1125 x 72 = 178.2mhz

From what Clarence, Art and other G90 owners have indicated, the G90 starts to roll off the high frequency detail somewhere inbetween these two points in an unacceptable manner. Unacceptable might be too strong a word, though, so we'll just say that inbetween those two scan rates 3:2 judder becomes more acceptable than the high frequency roll-off / loss of sharpness.

With the Zilla, you could run 1440x1080p72 per projector on a ginormous 2.35 screen. That still gives you the ~4x3 aspect to fit the face of the tube, and a 2880 pixel wide unblended image-space to work with. At 1440x1080 in 2.35, the blending situation looks like this:

1080 x 2.35 = 2538 pixels, with no vertical scaling.
2880 - 2538 = 342 pixels for the blend zone.
342 / 2880 = ~12% overlap, which Tim has suggested is sufficient for the blend zone.

At 1440x1080x72hz, and assuming the same porches as the 1920x1080 scenario, the bandwith equation looks like this:

(1440+280) x 1125 x 72 = 138.3mhz.

So you're still coming in under the 148.5mhz point that most everyone else finds perfectly workable with the G90. Sports and HDTV in 1.78 stil runs in the unscaled 1920x1080 portion of the middle of the screen, but you gain the massive 2.35 presentation, and the screen masking would be easier to boot. I don't know if the Zilla can do this, but I can't imagine that Antorsae would have gone down this road if it wasn't feasable.

But I'm not sure if the Zilla does 1440x1080; Tim indicated that an update was in the works for 1080P. For now, I imagine that it works with PC resolutions and jumps from 1280x1024 to 1600x1200 per projector. At 60hz and 72hz for vertical refresh, this works out to a bandwidth (using the above assumptions) of:

(1600 + 280) x (1200 + 45) x 60 = 140.4mhz
(1600 + 280) x (1200 + 45) x 72 = 168.5mhz

I suppose you'd have to actually take a look and see if the added resolution at 1200p72 would be worth the softening versus the downscaling at 1024p72. This all assumes you give a hoot about these nits, but for 18K I sure wouldn't want to see either softening or judder in my picture.

One way or the other, really, you can't lose. Blend, stack, whatever. I would think the last word, and the one that would set your theater apart, would be the Zilla. With 2 G90s, I think it would be years before any digital comes along, at a comparable price, that would unseat your setup from the top of the HT pile.

Sorry for the unsolicited advice; I'm just vicariously thrilled to hear about what comes of this meet.
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post #23 of 690 Old 09-29-2006, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overclkr View Post

Um..... Gwedo was going to be visiting you if you told me you weren't.

Cliffy

"Gwedo?" Wasn't that the bounty hunter that caught Han Solo?
'Gwedo'... sheesh! Spelling like that woulda got me a smack, I tell ya! Despite being an outward harp, I've got guido blood... mom's maiden name is 'DiLoreto.'



How far south of 80/94 is St. John (drive time wise?)

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post #24 of 690 Old 09-29-2006, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slartibartfasst View Post

Hi Cliff,

I'm new on this block, but I would suggest that if you have ANY regard for your wallet - don't see the BlendZilla. You know how it is, you get a HT idea in your head and the next minute you're massaging the finances to make room for the next "tweak." You're going to end up like Rip Van Winkle, wandering around Chicago with images of the BlendZilla playing on a loop in your head.

Seriously, though, when you take the Zilla for a spin, do try a 2.35 blend, for all of the reasons that Nick has stated. I went with a 120" wide 1.78 screen, because it fit my overall space, but if you're dedicating a room as an HT there is no reason not to go 2.35. There are some compelling bandwidth reasons, as well.

So everyone's running their G90s at 1080p60, and damn happy with the sharpness of the image, right? Because 1080p72 loses a little bit of sharpness?

For bandwidth, that's the difference between about 2200 (1920 plus a few for porches) by 1125 (1080 plus a few) by 60 or 72. So that's the difference between 148.5mhz (@60) and 178.2mhz (@72). Or put this way:

2200 x 1125 x 60 = 148.5mhz
2200 x 1125 x 72 = 178.2mhz

From what Clarence, Art and other G90 owners have indicated, the G90 starts to roll off the high frequency detail somewhere inbetween these two points in an unacceptable manner. Unacceptable might be too strong a word, though, so we'll just say that inbetween those two scan rates 3:2 judder becomes more acceptable than the high frequency roll-off / loss of sharpness.

With the Zilla, you could run 1440x1080p72 per projector on a ginormous 2.35 screen. That still gives you the ~4x3 aspect to fit the face of the tube, and a 2880 pixel wide unblended image-space to work with. At 1440x1080 in 2.35, the blending situation looks like this:

1080 x 2.35 = 2538 pixels, with no vertical scaling.
2880 - 2538 = 342 pixels for the blend zone.
342 / 2880 = ~12% overlap, which Tim has suggested is sufficient for the blend zone.

At 1440x1080x72hz, and assuming the same porches as the 1920x1080 scenario, the bandwith equation looks like this:

(1440+280) x 1125 x 72 = 138.3mhz.

So you're still coming in under the 148.5mhz point that most everyone else finds perfectly workable with the G90. Sports and HDTV in 1.78 stil runs in the unscaled 1920x1080 portion of the middle of the screen, but you gain the massive 2.35 presentation, and the screen masking would be easier to boot. I don't know if the Zilla can do this, but I can't imagine that Antorsae would have gone down this road if it wasn't feasable.

But I'm not sure if the Zilla does 1440x1080; Tim indicated that an update was in the works for 1080P. For now, I imagine that it works with PC resolutions and jumps from 1280x1024 to 1600x1200 per projector. At 60hz and 72hz for vertical refresh, this works out to a bandwidth (using the above assumptions) of:

(1600 + 280) x (1200 + 45) x 60 = 140.4mhz
(1600 + 280) x (1200 + 45) x 72 = 168.5mhz

I suppose you'd have to actually take a look and see if the added resolution at 1200p72 would be worth the softening versus the downscaling at 1024p72. This all assumes you give a hoot about these nits, but for 18K I sure wouldn't want to see either softening or judder in my picture.

One way or the other, really, you can't lose. Blend, stack, whatever. I would think the last word, and the one that would set your theater apart, would be the Zilla. With 2 G90s, I think it would be years before any digital comes along, at a comparable price, that would unseat your setup from the top of the HT pile.

Sorry for the unsolicited advice; I'm just vicariously thrilled to hear about what comes of this meet.

Excellent post !Lots of great information there.

Art

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"If she's amazing she won't be easy,if she's easy she won't be amazing"

 

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post #25 of 690 Old 09-29-2006, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slartibartfasst View Post

One way or the other, really, you can't lose. Blend, stack, whatever. I would think the last word, and the one that would set your theater apart, would be the Zilla. With 2 G90s, I think it would be years before any digital comes along, at a comparable price, that would unseat your setup from the top of the HT pile.

Sorry for the unsolicited advice; I'm just vicariously thrilled to hear about what comes of this meet.

Yes, I agree with Art, Great Post!!!!

Thanks much for the info. I do however do MUCH more than just 2:35 movies and my room will be roughly 14ft wide hence my extreme wants for good ol' 16:9.

Maybe if they came out with a 2:35:1 ratio XBOX 360, I'd be game!

My hopes for the meet will be both projectors mounted to a temp location on the ceiling projecting 1600X1200 4:3. That is gonna be one SHARP picture!

.....and yes, I agree, if it's THAT good, I'm gonna probably be selling drugs on the corner to try and finance it.

Cliff
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post #26 of 690 Old 09-29-2006, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtnfoley View Post

"Gwedo?" Wasn't that the bounty hunter that caught Han Solo?
'Gwedo'... sheesh! Spelling like that woulda got me a smack, I tell ya! Despite being an outward harp, I've got guido blood... mom's maiden name is 'DiLoreto.'



How far south of 80/94 is St. John (drive time wise?)

Damn that AVS spell check!!!!!!!!

My new crib is roughly 20-30 minutes at the MOST from Indianapolis Blvd and 80/94.

Cliff
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post #27 of 690 Old 09-29-2006, 02:31 PM
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.....and yes, I agree, if it's THAT good, I'm gonna probably be selling drugs on the corner to try and finance it.

Cliff

Cliff,
I'd never recommend anything against the law but I hope you're prepared to hit the streets !

Art

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post #28 of 690 Old 09-29-2006, 02:33 PM
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Speaking of drugs...
Be prepared to share whatever you've been smokin, thinking that you'll be able to hang TWO G90s two weeks after moving in to a new house, with Thanks Giving in the way.

I don't know about your wife, but all the women I've ever known would quickly point out that PMS has precedent as "justifiable homicide / temporary insanity!"

I may try to invent some pretext of visiting Detroit and swinging down there with an audiophile buddy of mine... Don't count me as a "confirmed" tho.

I enjoy mowing my lawn. It's the only two hours of my week where I know what's expected, understand the job, can forsee completion, and look back and see progress.
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post #29 of 690 Old 09-29-2006, 03:29 PM
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Count me in. If you need some equipment moving or lifting help, let me know.

MIKE

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post #30 of 690 Old 09-29-2006, 06:11 PM
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Mike ,
If getting something to the ceiling is the task, I pick you to be on my team ! To control G90s to a ceiiling mount realistically requires five guys but only for about 30 seconds.

Art

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