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post #1 of 27 Old 10-13-2006, 04:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello

I have purchased a GE Imager which I understand is a nec 6pg.
It is giving me an error of "ff" and will not power up. I have had it power up and work fine a couple of days ago. I started an initial setup this morning, and it will not power up, giving me only the "ff" message. The error code list I downloaded from Curt's site does not list this error, and a search does not reveal anything. Is this a signal problem, or a problem with the projector?

I have tried feeding it an htpc through an extron rgb202, and a samsung sir-ts360 through the extron, all resolutions with no change.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.
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post #2 of 27 Old 10-13-2006, 06:25 AM
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daleeper,
I havent seen a FF before. Remove power then try reseating the boards in the metal card cage. If you changed polarity (ceiling or floor) change it back until you trouble shoot it further. Always have a signal going if you are having problems. Keep the signal path simple until sorted out, check the connections at the projector. Doug
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post #3 of 27 Old 10-13-2006, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Doug

I reset all the boards, and changed back the polarity. I have an ecp nearby to check the source signal, and I am getting signal to the ecp. Does the PG like some signals in particular. I am using the H and V combined, is that a problem with the PG?

I am guessing there is a bad connection somewhere, or giving it an improper signal that it does not recognize. What should the projector do if it is not recognizing any signal, any error codes displayed at the back, or should the tubes fire up and display "no signal"?

Any leads would be helpful.
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post #4 of 27 Old 10-13-2006, 08:29 AM
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This might not even be the problem but I have seen them shut down before with no signal. This is usually because something is tweaked out of spec and it doesnt have memory to keep it running under a no signal condition.

The PG will take combined sync but it may not have been entered that way before.
If the projector doesnt see a source the menus will flicker. If it does see a signal it could say unregistered signal if its not entered into memory yet.

If you have a video board installed you might try the video input to eliminate RGB while troubleshooting. This card slot is at the very back of the projector under the metal cover.
Select the right input button if trying this.

What ever it is you first need to get it to stay on enough to check the settings. You might try without a signal and the remote unplugged if your using it wired. Usually after it shuts itself down it will show an error until you remove power to reset. The leds on the back should have the center one on in standby then go to two greens when powered. If one remains flashing then its in switch level one instead of standalone. Also you should get a blink of the remote led when a button is pressed on the remote.

See if you get the standby led lit up with power plugged in then push the power button on the back. If it shuts off check for a double error code. With the lid open see if one of the red leds stay lit solid when trying to power up. Dont let the projector cycle on and off if it tries to do that.

Look in the tube face to make sure there are no cracks and check the necks of the tubes for being solid to the tube. Doug
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post #5 of 27 Old 10-13-2006, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the help Doug

Just for reference for anyone who runs across this problem, on the extron rgb202 plus there is a switch on peak for HDTV and RGB. The PG prefers that it be switched to RGB. The ecp nor the marquee did not care how that was switched.

I am beginning to see why many people have trouble setting these up compared to other projectors. I sure miss point convergence. I am having real trouble with convergence on this machine. Anyone have a point board cheap?

Thanks.
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post #6 of 27 Old 10-13-2006, 07:51 PM
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Yes, I have a few. Shoot me an email thru my site below.

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post #7 of 27 Old 10-14-2006, 02:48 AM
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daleeper,
So is the projector running now? Want to remember that FF error if thats what caused it.
This shouldnt have shut the projector down. I would do the signal entry and check all the perimeters in the settings mode. After that see what happens if you remove the signal.
The projector should be able to run RGB under the no signal condition and why Im asking. Doug
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post #8 of 27 Old 10-14-2006, 05:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Baisey View Post

daleeper,
So is the projector running now? Want to remember that FF error if thats what caused it.
This shouldnt have shut the projector down. I would do the signal entry and check all the perimeters in the settings mode. After that see what happens if you remove the signal.
The projector should be able to run RGB under the no signal condition and why Im asking. Doug


I reviewed what I had done, and I had reset the boards a second time prior to switching the extron box from HDTV to RGB. I have done a rough setup, saving the settings and it will now stay powered up, but loose synch when switching from HDTV to RGB, therefore I am hoping that a poor board connection was the real problem, and the signal was a secondary problem.

Hopefully this has solved the problem.
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post #9 of 27 Old 10-17-2006, 04:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I'm back with the same problem.

I had it running Friday evening, did a very rough setup saving my settings, shut it down. I had turned it on and off several times, just to make sure that it would without unplugging it. When I finished, I unpluged it. I went to turn it on yesterday morning to work on convergence and it would not fire up. I plugged it in, pushed the front power button, and went back to the back panel, and the "ff" code is flashing. The system never tries to light the tubes. The red lights on the deflection board don't light up at all. On the back, the standby led lights up but the power light does not turn on. The remote light does not respond when I push the remote, and using the power button on the back does nothing. It seems stuck in standby.

I have not made any changes to my signal sense it ran the last time. I have pulled every board and reset them. I pulled the power supply connectors and reset them. I pulled the input board, and I noticed that the pin 6 solder connection on the wired remote has been hot, so I left the RJ unconnected (I assume this is the remote jack) and saw no difference, so I reconnected it. I could not find where those traces lead, but the front remote sensor had worked when the projector was functioning. It just doesn't want to fire up, like the power supply will not kick in. Any way to test the power supply?

Another question, when using the remote to shut down the projector, it really only puts it into standby. Is this the way you leave your projectors, or do you completely shut the power off to these machines between viewings?

Thanks for any help.
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post #10 of 27 Old 10-17-2006, 05:23 AM
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daleeper,
When you power down the stand-by light stays lit but this is just for stand by power, the projector is powered down and the normal way to turn it off. The three pin mini stereo jack for the remote should not get hot if this is what your refereing to. Im not sure what 'soldered remote connection' is unless its the female mini jack The power supply uses a load so no real way for you to do it unless jigged up to test. Are the fans turning on or is it not doing that?

When it was running did you go through the settings and take a look if you were in standalone or switch level one? I would suspect the power supply and or system board.
Is there someone in your area that you can check these in?

Might leave it plugged into stand by for awhile and see it that helps kick it. Just because unplug the mini remote plug. You should be getting the standby power and also a flash of the rc led even when pushing off. Doug
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post #11 of 27 Old 10-17-2006, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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"The three pin mini stereo jack for the remote should not get hot if this is what your refereing to. Im not sure what 'soldered remote connection' is unless its the female mini jack"

On the input board, there is a mini stereo jack, which has 6 pins to the pcb. On pin 6, the solder has either been hot, or poorly soldered. If it has been hot, I wonder what other damage may have happened while it was hot, especially if it was a short that made it hot.

"Are the fans turning on or is it not doing that?"

No, the fans are not turning on, nor anything else, only the lights on the rear control panel, and the "ff" error code. No leds are lighting on the deflection board, not even briefly, as when it starts up properly.

"When it was running did you go through the settings and take a look if you were in standalone or switch level one?"

I didn't get to the part of determining whether it is in standalone or switch level one, as it fired up that day, and I forgot to check that out. I got all the settings on the signal input I was using saved, and deleted some that I thought I would never use. There was only a dozen or so, and deleted a couple, as I figured there should be plenty of memory available with those empty slots, but didn't pay attention to whether it was in standalone or switch level one.

"Is there someone in your area that you can check these in?"

I am unaware of anyone in North Missouri with any CRT's, let alone an NEC 6PG, although they must be out there somewhere, because I have 5 different crt pj's purchased within driving distance. Anybody out there, especially with a parts 6-9pg that I can try? I would be willing to trade this unit for good Marquee tubes.

"You should be getting the standby power and also a flash of the rc led even when pushing off."

I get standby power led, but am unsure what you are referring to with the rc led, if you mean the remote control led beside the standby led, it does not respond to the remote right now. (it did when the pj was running).

Thanks Doug for your help. I will leave it plugged in today, and check on it this afternoon.
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post #12 of 27 Old 10-17-2006, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Doug

In an earlier post you mentioned a video input at the back of the projector

"If you have a video board installed you might try the video input to eliminate RGB while troubleshooting. This card slot is at the very back of the projector under the metal cover."

I am not finding this. I did try the svideo connection right under the RGB at the front of the projector under the lens. Is there another place at the back to connect video of some sort?

Thanks.
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post #13 of 27 Old 10-17-2006, 07:03 AM
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The video card is in the very back. The video inputs are in the front only. Also check the switch under the connections. If the card isnt there you wont have video. Doug

Check the connectors real close at the rear IR board also and the front.
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post #14 of 27 Old 10-17-2006, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Doug

It does have the card in the very back, but will not respond to either svideo or composite signals. Will work with this a little more this evening though to make sure what I am sending it.
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post #15 of 27 Old 10-20-2006, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Got it to fire up a couple of times last night and this morning. It does say that it is in standalone mode. I deleted more signals. How many signals does this machine have the capacity of storing. The one that it is on is number 60. I deleted most of them that I knew I would not use. Most of the ones I deleted are numbered 45-60. There were no entries in the 21-40 numbers, and it would hang up, or not allow me to access the numbers 1-20. When I tried to scroll to number 20, the projector would quit responding but would show the signal list box and the image behind it, it would not accept remote control or control from the back panel, would not even power down.

Which board are these functions on?

Any other clues would be appreciated.

The guy I bought this thing from thinks he has access to a parts projector, so I'm hoping that I can find the right parts to make it work, just wanting to understand the projector better.

Thanks.
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post #16 of 27 Old 10-20-2006, 08:08 AM
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daleeper,
In the settings menu check direct entry access, select disable. I wouldnt be deleting all the signals just move them back for now. The ones in the 50s lines are put in at the factory so you have something to sync to, those you just deleted. One of these can hold the white balance information and other properties you may need while trouble shooting.

Move and open up the first few signal entries then re-enter the signal your running in one of the vacant lines. For now I would try to enter a video input signal on line 1 and the highest RGB signal you will be running on line 2 or leave a space and put it in 3. You have to select video or RGB as signal type and also be selecting the right input on the remote. Dont do any data copies just yet.

The reason it wont grab on the first page of the entries is because you need to register the signal first (signal entry). I would read the manuals taking note on signal entry and phase. For now use temporary instead of default, most likely you deleted default. Leave it in stand-by, dont remove power until everything is working and setting looked at.

Shut off auto power on mode if enabled. Shut off source lock on each signal. Signal condition power up select last instead of default. Scroll through the pages in the menus so you can locate everything.

Projector can store 100 entries. Right now your having system board 'weirdness', it also tells the projector when to turn on and off and remote commands, menu and signal entries. Doug
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post #17 of 27 Old 10-21-2006, 05:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Doug for your help.

I got it to start last night, and as long as I stay off the P01 of the Inputs it will stay running. When I try to access anything on page 1, it will lock up, and I have to power down the machine. The entry on line 3 has odd characters on the description and date that changes each time I view it. It makes me think that that area of memory may be corrupt or something.

"In the settings menu check direct entry access, select disable."

Are you referring to the Default input select in the settings menu? Otherwise I am not understanding (or can't find) what to do here. If that is what you are referring to which is disable, "last" or Default".

"You have to select video or RGB as signal type and also be selecting the right input on the remote."

I was able to make an entry with the video, and it did sync last night, so the video board seems to be working.

"The ones in the 50s lines are put in at the factory so you have something to sync to, those you just deleted."

Yes, my stupidity got the best of me. However the machine does seem to power up more consistently now. If I were to swap system boards with another machine, will the "factory" settings that are stored on it be correct for my projector, or were they set from the factory for each individual machine (the ones on lines50-60)?

Thanks again.
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post #18 of 27 Old 10-21-2006, 08:20 AM
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daleeper,
You have a weird one thats for sure.
Yes 'default input select' if your having problems select last and let run for 10 minutes, the default could be corrupt.

The signals in the 50s lines are good to have while trouble shooting. In HT we dont use most of these and its not wrote in stone that you need them there but in instances like yours it helps. The projector looks at P01 first then works it way through the input list to find the freq that matches the closest. If its not the same perimeters it will say 'unregistered signal' but still display.

These factory memories will be the same as others in that version if they havent been deleted. If your system board operates normal you should be able to put in freqs you will normally use. The projector was designed for multi-purpose applications but it wont hurt to leave them in the 50s lines, its looking at page one first to lock to and normally where your signals will be.

The projector needs to use more then just the system board for proper lock up and wave forms, as the projector gets older some of these perimeters will be just a tad off (caps or weak components) so its a good thing to enter the signal fresh IF your having issues.

Direct entry access set to 'on' deals directly to P01 signal entries up to signal 10. This is designed to work with control systems and when using the same freq with different settings and or formats. Holding the CTL button down and selecting the memory line you want will force the projector to the right memory you want. These should be put in fresh to work properly.

I doubt your system board will be dependable but I havent seen a ff error before, the character generator sounds iffy and also the cap battery may be dead if clock settings are weird, this usually will charge up under normal operation. I woulds start looking, I have never seen one freeze or lock up and shut down from being on P01. Have you tried to move the entries under the service mode and signal entry function / entry move. The straight 6 you may have to delete and re-enter. Doug
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post #19 of 27 Old 01-10-2007, 02:23 AM
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Did anyone find out what the FF code was?

I popped a faulty F drive into my 6PG+ to test it, and then put my original back in. It ran for a while then a loud pop and now when I try to power up the fans kick in, and then it goes to an FF error and then goes off and then the cycle repeats.

Anyone know what the FF error signifies?

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post #20 of 27 Old 01-10-2007, 04:02 AM
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My wife just reminded me that we did get a pop and a flash the night before while watching a movie (the sound was right up and I didn't notice it, but she did), so it probably had nothing whatsoever to do with the F-Drive testing.

Can't find damn FF anywhere.

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post #21 of 27 Old 01-10-2007, 04:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I have intended to follow up on this thread after I set the projector up. I haven't got it set up yet, but I will tell you what I did.

I ended up putting in a different system board, and that seems to have taken care of the problems I had encountered. Keep in mind, I have not run this pj any length of time. I may run into other problems. I hope to get at it this week, so I will most likely be back with more questions.

This doesn't really answer your question as to what the "ff" code specificly means, but the different system board made my machine fire up consistantly, and no error code.
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post #22 of 27 Old 01-10-2007, 04:22 AM
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Thanks!
I'll try it, but i think my problem may be different, my fans come on, one of the DEF board LEDs stays on the tube necks light up and then it goes into standby, LED goes off and the FF code flashes for a millisecond and then back to 00 again, then a few seconds later it tries to power up again and it all repeats.

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post #23 of 27 Old 01-10-2007, 04:34 AM
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swapped the system board, no joy.

Tries to power up, fans come on, you hear the HV kick in, the D023 light stays on, then system goes into standby (orange standby light is on at back of unit) and D023 goes off.


System then cycles back up and repeats. Haven't seen this prob before.

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post #24 of 27 Old 08-29-2007, 07:48 PM
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sorry, i know it's rude to bring back an old topics, however I recently recieved a GE imager 601 (nec 6pg rebranded), and my projector does power into standby, but seems locked, in that it wont proceed to boot in any way, in addition to the "ff" error code. i do not have the remote control, or much technical experience, though if i were directed to a guide for various steps in the repair process i am sure i could learn.

it would be terribly kind if you were to help me...
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post #25 of 27 Old 08-29-2007, 08:18 PM
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FF or EF? Look close if its upside down. Doug
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post #26 of 27 Old 08-30-2007, 04:59 AM
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definately ff, no doubt about that (unless the display is broken)
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post #27 of 27 Old 08-30-2007, 07:17 PM
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Not sure on this. Its not a error that I have seen before. I would guess it is the system board if it doesn't know how to 'talk' right. Doug

FE is no video decoder board installed or it has a problem.
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