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post #1 of 86 Old 12-18-2006, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi guys!

I've been in here a bit before, but considering the latest addition to my Home Cinema I reckon I'll be spending some more time here, since this machine seems most known and used in the US.

In the Dutch HT forums they love images, so hoping you think along similar lines here's a smack after unpacking and looking about a bit:





























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post #2 of 86 Old 12-18-2006, 03:00 PM - Thread Starter
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A slight wear on the green tube, but plenty of life left in the lot I reckon!

It came with HD-18 lenses, I guess those are the standard? Are they good or should I already start keeping my eye out for the HD-145 or something else for a future upgrade?

One thing I wanted to ask right off though: on powering up the unit for some quick testing all was in fine working order, I found that the fans are rather noisy. Is it possible, and doable, to replace these by quieter ones? Any suggestions and/or possible links to addresses where to purchase?

I'm quite into the PC world and know there's plenty of fans out there, but these probably are 230V whereas most PC fans are 12V or 5V.

The standby button is blinking when in standby mode, this is due to the fact that it's a US model but with a euro powersupply according to the seller. It doesn't bother me much and if it starts to I can easily simply blind it I reckon, but nonetheless - can something be done to make it work 'normally' ?

The unit powered up fine and a quick test with S-Video signal from my DVD gave me picture, albeit crap and non-converged, obviously. I assume the other inputs are ok as well so I'll transfer the 2nd half of the money to the seller tomorrow as well


I'm not in a hurry, we'll be celebrating X-mas at the gf's family, after which we travel to Holland to visit my family over newyear (we live in Sweden). I plan to do the tough work (ceiling mounting, converging, calibrating etc) after X-mas when I have plenty of time. I will read the manuals thoroughly, as I've read the NEC's aren't the easiest to configure. Hence I hope to not be bothering you guys with questions which I could've found the answer to by simply reading. Nonetheless I hope that when I do stumble upon things I can't figure out, some experts here can and are willing to assist.

Cheers,
Joris
Uppsala, Sweden
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post #3 of 86 Old 12-18-2006, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JorisS View Post

It came with HD-18 lenses, I guess those are the standard? Are they good or should I already start keeping my eye out for the HD-145 or something else for a future upgrade?

You've got an LC machine. HD145s are an AC lens.

Dave
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post #4 of 86 Old 12-18-2006, 03:24 PM
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Welcome!

The fans won't be 230V... they will be low voltage DC (12 or 24V.)
As it happens, Gary Murrel has a thread here about his efforts to quiet his XG:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723826

I can't speak to LC lens options, only reiterate that HD144 and 145 are air coupled therefor won't work with this PJ.

Follow the setup advice you get here, at least WRT the projection distance... NEC was FAR too conservative, resulting in small rasters that would burn quickly and produce less resolution and light output.
Best advice is to set up the projected image from your source and resolution to be within a centimeter or so from the green tube edge, then move the projector forward and back to fill your screen. Measure and set up your mount for this PD.

And yes, you've got a fair amount of life left in those tubes... think 6000-8000 runtime hours.

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post #5 of 86 Old 12-18-2006, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies! I'll check out that topic as well.

As for the setup, I plan to start with the current configuration. The previous owner had the pj installed in a nice home cinema dedicated room, and - from what I could see on the tube - in 16:9, which I plan to use as well. The image filled the tubes horizontally with about a cm on each side, as you mentioned.

It's good to know to not fare blind on the NEC manual then, I've heard that from several owners now!

I plan to use a 16:9 screen which is 2.20m wide. I'm sorry, I don't know the vertical size from head (and if I did, it wouldn't be in ", but there's plenty conversions 'out there' to fix that ).
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post #6 of 86 Old 12-18-2006, 03:36 PM
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Looks like a beauty, Joris. Yes, the XG is notoriously loud. There have been several threads on cooling it and quieting it down, see e.g.
http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...d.php?t=531375
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723826

You will probably want to build a hushbox to contain the noise, but then you have to make sure you ventilate it well. The best way to exhaust the hot air depends on whether you're mounting the XG on a table (right side up), or hanging from the ceiling (upside down). If you're hanging it, you want to stick a "plenum" on the baseplate of the XG, and suck air out of it. This draws air through the body of the projector and out the base. See http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/...d.php?t=529823. (Probably want to reverse the two side fans if you do that, so they blow in (working with the plenum extraction) rather than out (makes sense for a right-side-up installation but not for upside-down).

Have fun! You have a "learning experience" ahead of you.
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post #7 of 86 Old 12-18-2006, 03:38 PM
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Nice XG. Set up time!

It is all about quality...that is the picture

JVC & NEC 8" CRT with 106" wide Stewart screen. All NHT speakers driven by Pioneer Elite AVR and bluray

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post #8 of 86 Old 12-18-2006, 06:58 PM
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Sweet. I love to look at minty tubes and for some reason the tubes on a G70 and XGLC are just dead sexy .

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post #9 of 86 Old 12-18-2006, 07:12 PM
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NEC XG Tubes = The Pamela Andreson of Tubes
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post #10 of 86 Old 12-19-2006, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Person99 View Post

You've got an LC machine. HD145s are an AC lens.

Dave

Besides which, the only thing that makes the HD-145 lenses of any value is because of the Red and Green colored filters in the lenses. The LC NEC and Sony projectors use colored C-elements, so you don't have to put up with the picture degradation that the cheap filters used in the lenses cause.

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post #11 of 86 Old 12-19-2006, 04:37 PM
 
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Bruce! Haven't seen you in a while, glad to see you're still alive!
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post #12 of 86 Old 12-19-2006, 05:12 PM
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Awesome projector...now you must find a way to keep it cool and quiet. This is the journey....enjoy it.


Ben
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post #13 of 86 Old 12-19-2006, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisWiggles View Post

Bruce! Haven't seen you in a while, glad to see you're still alive!

Hi Chris, I haven't been feeling too well and get tired from doing nothing, so I sleep alot. I guess I'll live to see next year, but after that, I don't know. As long as I don't have to read any of your l-o-n-g posts I should make it another year.

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post #14 of 86 Old 12-20-2006, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by techman707 View Post

Hi Chris, I haven't been feeling too well and get tired from doing nothing, so I sleep alot. I guess I'll live to see next year, but after that, I don't know. As long as I don't have to read any of your l-o-n-g posts I should make it another year.

I hope it is not any thing serious.

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post #15 of 86 Old 12-20-2006, 11:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techman707 View Post

Hi Chris, I haven't been feeling too well and get tired from doing nothing, so I sleep alot. I guess I'll live to see next year, but after that, I don't know. As long as I don't have to read any of your l-o-n-g posts I should make it another year.

Well stay well, and I'll try to stay pithy.

You, uh, might not want to wander into the OT Global Warming thread though, there are some long ones in there...
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post #16 of 86 Old 01-09-2007, 04:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello again!
Now that X-mas is past, a trip to Netherlands (visiting my parents and friends) done and I've actually gotten around to hanging the projector and do some quick calibration, here's some pictures:














After calibration, starting with a picture of the desktop on my 22" Wide TFT:














I find that the text isn't crispy clear (+ that I really should get a pair of glasses, but my gf confirmed it wasn't completely sharp), but the overall image was quite satisfying and subtitles are easy to read and seem fine. Unfortunately all walls here are white, so I will never get a truly good contrast in here.

As for the sharpness... right now I'm using my PC as source, using the following:

DVI -> VGA converter
VGA <--> VGA 3m cable (LOWEST quality)
VGA -> 5x BNC breakout (LOW quality)

From what I've read the best idea for getting optimal image quality is getting a Moome box, or better yet, card (which can be installed directly into the NEC). I wonder if that would give sharper image?

I did the lens focus and EF using a test pattern from the pc (using Nokia tool), perhaps I could get sharper result using the in-built? In any case, I reckon the internal test patterns are 'as sharp as it gets'? As usual hard to focus on blue.


As for the entire converging procedure, I find the manual somewhat meager. And one thing I really didn't understand yet:

there's an ALIGNMENT menu, and there's a CONVERGENCE menu... but most of the items seem to be the same? And in the manual, things start by Electrical focus (page 39, then follow some steps, then on pages 48/49 there seems to be some kind of roundup. But then things start anew?! Page 50: static convergence, followed by dynamic convergence...

I reckon I am missing a point here...

Well I hope you guys can give me some pointers based on above pictures and questions!

One final thing:

I noticed that in a white screen, I get discoloration towards the side edges:





I'm using a wider image than the previous usage; is this simply the effect of wear, even though the tubes seemed in pretty good condition?

It's not disturbing me as it only shows in white screens and I don't want to decrease the projected area and be forced to re-hang the pj some cm backwards, so I'll have to live with it. I'm just wondering if that indead is due to wear.
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post #17 of 86 Old 01-09-2007, 04:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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One more thing:

in the above picture one can see that there's some kind of slightly discolored band at the bottom of the screen. Is this somehow due to the signal I'm feeding? I see it on all tubes and it's a very SHARP line, ie not like the discolorations at the side edges which are more diffuse. I wonder what is causing that; in vertical range I'm using a smaller tube surface than the previous owner (he projected 4:3), so it shouldn't be related to wear I guess.
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post #18 of 86 Old 01-09-2007, 05:30 AM
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what resolution and refresh rate are you feeding it?
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post #19 of 86 Old 01-09-2007, 05:31 AM
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nice PJ, the NEC XG LC is king and it gives one heck of a image, that looks like wear on the tube, that line at the bottom you were asking about

here is what you can do with a NEC LC, from my 1352 in my HT after 3 months of setup:









more here:
http://home.bigsandybb.com/gmurrell/...r/screens.html

again Nice PJ

-Gary
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post #20 of 86 Old 01-09-2007, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YONEXSP View Post

NEC XG Tubes = The Pamela Andreson of Tubes


I thought Pamela Anderson was the Pamela Anderson of tubes?

Or was that "Tommy Lee is (was) the tube of Pamela Anderson?"

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post #21 of 86 Old 01-09-2007, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kschmit2 View Post

what resolution and refresh rate are you feeding it?


I'm feeding 'standard' 720p at 60Hz refresh rate from my ATI card in the PC.

@Gary:

those are some awesome pictures m8! Although I'm aware such images are always 'changed' by camera and such, it looks great and probably even better in reality? I do reckon you have a completely dark room though, with dark walls and all? That I strife for when we buy a house, but for now I'll have to make do with the light here.
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post #22 of 86 Old 01-09-2007, 07:26 AM
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Jori, it does look better in person for sure, I got a new camera a couple days back and I am amazed how good I got those to turnout, they are untouched other than resizing them

you have one heck of a unit there, work with it and learn the NEC and it gives dividends, having lighter colored walls is a problem, not a bad one, but not optimum, try and make sure you room is at least 100% void of lights and that will make a big difference, when you get a new room, if you can do it 100% black, and everything in it, it makes a worlds difference is black level and 3D qualities

and if you need any help with the NEC just ask, there are plenty of us here, Mark in Australia could help with any NEC issue, imagined or real

-Gary
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post #23 of 86 Old 01-09-2007, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks m8!

I'll restart the setup now, starting with all values at 0. Somehow they weren't when I first started, so I basically started off on the wrong foot already.

One question: should one do the convergence and all using a test pattern generated from the source, or should one just the internal ones?

Since each signal requires its own fine-tuning, I reckon it'd be best with a generated pattern? I'm feeding 720p from pc and use a Nokia tool right now.

For the mechanic setup I reckon the internal patterns can and should be used?
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post #24 of 86 Old 01-09-2007, 11:06 AM
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I added a repost of another method that can help on your sound issue in this forum.
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post #25 of 86 Old 01-09-2007, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I added a repost of another method that can help on your sound issue in this forum.

*edit*
Ah gotcha, now I know what you mean! I'll read through it and probably give it a go, as the first lines already state the cost is nihil and it's fairly easy.


Ok back on track:

So I've got some coloration at the side edges of the screen:




From what I was told probably wear; more light at the edges coming from the tubes with least wear?

Checking the individual colours, though, it seems there's most light in the middle. I tried to get it on picture, but the camera seems to overdo it a lot. Still I do feel with my eyes that the outer edges are actually slightly darker:












a bit from the side:





This effect seems independent of signal and resolution. Then there's the bar at the bottom showing, which I don't know what it is? But changing resolution does seem to make that disappear.

As said, right now I simply use 720p from the pc, using standard timings and all.


*edit*
actually looking at things a bit more closely, it seems that it indeed IS brighter in the middle of the screen. Is that some setting?


perhaps this is actually something that I shouldn't be addressing now, but rather do a full convergence following manual first?
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post #26 of 86 Old 01-09-2007, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok first things first...

I got referred to the description on Curt Palme for a PG projector PG Mechanical setup , by a PG owner. Ofcourse there are differences, but most likely there are a lot of similarities as well.

For the mechanical setup, the PG owners start by centering the raster on the screen, by actually rotating CRC magnets at the back of the tubes. Then there's a ASTI something, but that seems to be electronic in the XG (found ASTI and put it to 0 in the menu anyway).

Is this raster centering needed on the XG as well? For one, it's hard to actually determine properly with the LC tubes... but checking through the lenses it seems the raster actually IS pretty decently in the center.

What to do? Unfortunately I can't find a similar extensive setup description for the XG on Curt Palme.
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post #27 of 86 Old 01-09-2007, 01:10 PM
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judging from the last two pics I would assume that you use a high-gain screen.

This causes hot-spotting, which shifts as you movie from the center to the sides
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post #28 of 86 Old 01-09-2007, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JorisS View Post

Ok first things first...

I got referred to the description on Curt Palme for a PG projector PG Mechanical setup , by a PG owner. Ofcourse there are differences, but most likely there are a lot of similarities as well.

For the mechanical setup, the PG owners start by centering the raster on the screen, by actually rotating CRC magnets at the back of the tubes. Then there's a ASTI something, but that seems to be electronic in the XG (found ASTI and put it to 0 in the menu anyway).

Is this raster centering needed on the XG as well? For one, it's hard to actually determine properly with the LC tubes... but checking through the lenses it seems the raster actually IS pretty decently in the center.

What to do? Unfortunately I can't find a similar extensive setup description for the XG on Curt Palme.


Astig is both mechanical and electronic.

You first do the mechanical setting, then the electronic setting. For now you should probably skip the mechanical part of it (you can do that later once you are more familiar with the more "basic" adjustments).

As for raster centering: that is done via the menu in the XG (the PG series has a mechanical adjustment for that).

Btw, if you add your location to your profile, there might be someone in your area willing to assist you.

Kai
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post #29 of 86 Old 01-09-2007, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. I'll add the location, but doubt it'll help much, as I'm located in Sweden


So basically no need whatsoever to do any mechanical adjustments inside the projector (as for the PG)?

The screen I have is a very basic 1.0 gain one, bought from a german company on a well-known auctioning site.
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post #30 of 86 Old 01-09-2007, 01:56 PM
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Umm ahh, eventually you will want to tweak the astig magnets on the necks of the tubes.

Individual Raster Centering controls are only available when you have entered the service mode using 3151 passcode - but it won't work unless a user passcode is setup as well.

I wouldn't use 720p 60hz. You are in a 50hz country for a start - at least try 720p 75hz for local material. There's lots of more suitable res's than 720p 60hz. I use 1080i at 72 and 75hz, Kai using 1080i 96hz, some use 1440x816p at 72/72hz, or 1280x1152 at 50hz...

Your righthand edge looks like wear. You bottom edge looks strange - what happens if you use Position SHIFT to move the image up? Does it move too?

And if it's not sharp at 720p you need to tweak electronic astig/focus and if that doesn't work you need to tweak the astig magnets (advanced stuff).

A DVI input card is not sharper than VGA...well, maybe a little, but barely - not in my experience. If it's not sharp with VGA a DVI card won't help. It's all setup and throw distance related.

And I always use an external pattern.


Have fun.

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