Marquee 8500 Screenshots.. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 53 Old 01-09-2007, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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All images are at 1920x1080P @ 60hz. Some are Xbox 360, and some HTPC. All are HDTV files.

The projector is not LC with HD-145 lenses. Coonections are all done RGBHV, from Xbox and HTPC. Screen width is 84" Dalite electric.




















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post #2 of 53 Old 01-10-2007, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, we'll shift a bit from 1080P and we'll post a few at 1920x1440P @ 60hz

1920x1440P shows somewhat compressed vertically.








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post #3 of 53 Old 01-10-2007, 06:07 AM - Thread Starter
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1920x1080 @ 72hz


1920x1080p @ 72hz


1920x1080P @ 72hz









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post #4 of 53 Old 01-10-2007, 06:07 AM
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Hi,

Nice pix (kind of goes without saying but I'll say it anyway.)

I miss my 8500, I think I'll try to pick up another one. They are really fun.

-Brian
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post #5 of 53 Old 01-10-2007, 11:50 PM
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Awesome pics and colors!!! I noticed though that people look wider. Is it because of your digital camera?
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post #6 of 53 Old 01-11-2007, 12:07 AM
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nice! those are some insane resolutions there bud they would look like complete ass on my setup

the vertical is too small or horz too wide as v1rtu0s1ty noticed

-Gary
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post #7 of 53 Old 01-11-2007, 02:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v1rtu0s1ty View Post

I noticed though that people look wider. Is it because of your digital camera?

It's a combination of camera position and sizing (H/V) on the projector.

The 1080P images from the HTPC are more accurate, but the H linearity needs big attention.

1080P @ 72hz coming out of that same HTPC is wider, and may be off the screen on both sides a bit.

The Xbox is the bigger problem, because its 1080P timings are broke. And because of the broke timings, the image is displayed outside of the raster horizontally.

The 1440P images are shorter vertically, therefore I moved the camera up closer to the screen.


I've since removed the HTPC from the setup and will be running most things Xbox 360. My only hope with the Xbox is to see the timings fixed. That aside, it produces the best image (performance) I've seen today. However, for 1080P out of the Xbox 360 at its best, you'll have to remove the filters afetr the DAC. And once that's done, it'll put some finer noise on the screen when up close, but from a good seating distance, that noise is not there. Plus with the filters removed, the image is crystal clear. The problem I'm thinking with this, is that the fileter network was not electronically designed for 1920x1080P, and with the only changes being made to the unit being a resoltion upgrade, that would more likely create a problem for the lower resolution filters after the DAC. And that's where the softening comes in. Of all the video signals out there coming off a DAC. HDTV needs a specific filter for highest performance. And the same is true with my video card, and there is where that level of clarity is coming from.

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post #8 of 53 Old 01-11-2007, 02:53 AM
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Nice stuff!

I'm struggling hard with my XG110LC, but hopefully some day I'll manage to post some nice screenshots here as well

Just a question: according to Curt Palme's, the max resolution for the Marquee 8500 is 1600x1200, yet you are showing 1920x1440P here?

And Gary stating that such resolutions would look ass on his XG135LC, although that one according to same stats has a max resolution of up to 2500x2000?
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post #9 of 53 Old 01-11-2007, 03:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

nice! those are some insane resolutions there bud

yeah, that 8500 is just stupid with bandwidth.. I can't figure out where the sweet spot is. The higher up I go in scan rate, it will just paint the lines thinner.


Quote:


they would look like complete ass on my setup
-Gary

Maybe the 1080P and 1440P would, but if you had the same sources hooked up that I'm using, you'll do very well at 1080P @ 60hz.

I've looked at your images very close. And being one that has made a hobby out of improving on the video chain, I had to first learn when a source was limited. And I can tell from your images that the NEC is very capable of more than what you're showing.

I am with Clarence, in that you do deserve the crown. because you've done a great thing there with a stock machine, and the setup was the best I've ever seen anyone post a screenshot of. I also do large screen presentation systems setups, and you've outdone me on that setup. And to pull it off with an NEC, is nothing short of remarkable.

The only short comings of CRT is the quality of the source material put on it's inputs. Most (if not all) of everything out there is not true HDTV at it's best for CRT. And the lastest and greatest processors are designed with emphasis on digital. So any analog out put would not have the benefit of being high end, because no ones using CRT projectors to evaluate the analog signal for the absolute best performance.

So we're stuck with super high performing display devices (CRT's) that are being limited from the quick use of a $0.15 analog DAC connection.

I dread the day that I have to finish tweaking that 8500..

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post #10 of 53 Old 01-11-2007, 03:15 AM
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Great work there Mike as always. Would be great if you get a chance to get me a copy of that Extron shootout CD... see how they look on a blended 9" rig with your mods

( B ) ( G ) ( R ) BlendZilla DownUnder ( R ) ( G ) ( B ) - Tubes of Fury
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post #11 of 53 Old 01-11-2007, 03:37 AM
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thanks for the comments Mike, much appreciated coming from you, I would still very much love to see what you could do to the NEC XG, mods etc.

I would love to know what you think of current sources folks are using? like the Lumagen/DVDO/Crystallio etc. top end scalers? what do you think is the best current way to go from HDMI to RGBHV?

the main reason I am using HDMI connections is that fact that I have a scaler involved doing mainly 1080i deinterlacing and scale work, feeding analog into and then out from a scaler would require multiple A/D etc. conversions, currently I am pure HDMI until it hits the Moome card in my XG, I am pretty much pleased with that card, but would love to hear what you would think is best

-Gary
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post #12 of 53 Old 01-11-2007, 04:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JorisS View Post

Just a question: according to Curt Palme's, the max resolution for the Marquee 8500 is 1600x1200, yet you are showing 1920x1440P here?

My 8500 is different. Those changes are the result of some years of component level video chain tweaking.

And thanks to a special visit a year ago to VDC, Scott (tse) showed me a few tricks with tweaking for better bandwidth, and that allowed me to go further.



Quote:


And Gary stating that such resolutions would look ass on his XG135LC, although that one according to same stats has a max resolution of up to 2500x2000?

NEC's resolution specs are for the tubes (CRT) addressable resolution. It refers to how many lines the CRT is capable of, and this rule had nothing to do with the overall resolution performance of the projector. Electrohome focused more on the resolution capability of the video chain, though the addressabilty resolution of the tubes are about the same as the NEC's. Gary's XG has very powerful neck boards in it. Not sure of the rest of the video chain, so it could be equal or even better than a stock Marquee in bandwidth performance.

So because the addressability of the CRT's (tubes) are so high on all the better grade CRT projectors, the better number to watch for is Bandwidth. Bandwidth is what puts the resolve to the tubes.

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post #13 of 53 Old 01-11-2007, 04:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

thanks for the comments Mike, much appreciated coming from you, I would still very much love to see what you could do to the NEC XG, mods etc.

I would love to know what you think of current sources folks are using? like the Lumagen/DVDO/Crystallio etc. top end scalers? what do you think is the best current way to go from HDMI to RGBHV?

the main reason I am using HDMI connections is that fact that I have a scaler involved doing mainly 1080i deinterlacing and scale work, feeding analog into and then out from a scaler would require multiple A/D etc. conversions, currently I am pure HDMI until it hits the Moome card in my XG, I am pretty much pleased with that card, but would love to hear what you would think is best

-Gary

Do you have the later version Moome card. The one that uses a better chip than the Sil thingy?

Maybe I should get one of his later version cards to look at. I have a previous one here, and there's nothing at all special about it. I think Cliff has one of his later verison cards, and from his screenshots, I can tell there's a difference from what i have here.

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post #14 of 53 Old 01-11-2007, 05:44 AM
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I think I have a older one Mike, I am pushing moome to release a new 10-bit HDMI card for the XG, he says he plans to, the ISS won't do me any good sadly

Cliff has the ISS card for that NEC switcher I think, Mike I was wondering what you had to say( mainly negative) about the Moome, I would love to hear all your overall thoughts on it

you know me always looking for a extra .5%

-Gary
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post #15 of 53 Old 01-11-2007, 06:11 AM
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So Mike given the playing around you have been doing with sources what is your ranking of preferred sources for the 8500?

Mark...
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post #16 of 53 Old 01-11-2007, 09:12 AM
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So, if I were to get a crt again...I'd best wait for Moome's next HDMI transcoder???

Ben
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post #17 of 53 Old 01-11-2007, 09:38 AM
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maybe Ben it depends on your devices, I am happy with the DVI right now, no banding or posterization issues at all (unless they are in the source of course )

but and a big but, I use the DVDO VP50 and feed everything into it via HDMI component colorspace and it (VP50) outputs DVI RGB 100% perfectly to the moome card, in contrast using a DVI to HDMI cable and connecting directly from the moome to say a Toshiba HD-DVD player, will cause clipping issues for example, many pieces of gear have HDMI to DVI issues and it is one of the big reasons I love my scaler

-Gary
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post #18 of 53 Old 01-11-2007, 09:45 AM
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the moome ISS-HD input card already uses the new design
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post #19 of 53 Old 04-26-2007, 06:35 AM
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Mike, these are some screenshots. Those with the label STEP on upper left come from normal DVD processed to 1080i by Teranex.
The other pictures come from HDDVD.















While these screen shots come only from simple DVDs








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post #20 of 53 Old 04-26-2007, 06:36 AM
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....AND THEN












Vincenzo

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Otherwise you have lost an opportunity to keep silent
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post #21 of 53 Old 04-26-2007, 07:47 AM
 
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After viewing these along with other 1080P shots on a Marquee. I am not convinced that an 8" projector or at least a 8" Marquee is up to the job when it comes to 1080P. Seems a bit too soft to my eyes. Lesser interlaced and progressive signals on my stock M8500 with stock lenses looks sharper to me. I'm not saying these look bad, Hardly, I just noticed, based on screenshots alone ( which is not a reliable indicator) that 1080P is not the best reolution for 8" Marquees.
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post #22 of 53 Old 04-26-2007, 08:41 AM
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I have an 8000 that i have running 1080p with no mods , yes its soft ,and i can definatly say that Mikes screen shots are 200 % sharper ( Person99 its just an expression ) lol i couldnt resist!

Mike i cant ait till i save up for your mods !!!!!


Athanasios

PS: i should be getting the TVone scalers this week or next, i have alot of work to do!
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post #23 of 53 Old 04-26-2007, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JorisS View Post

Just a question: according to Curt Palme's, the max resolution for the Marquee 8500 is 1600x1200, yet you are showing 1920x1440P here?

the max resolution and bandwidth for the Marquee 8000 and 8500 on that list are the same yet they are completely different machines. In the 1995 the old 8000 was completely re-designed. Every module was re-engineered and even all 3 yokes were re-designed to improve performance. The Horizontal deflection, Power supplies, and the entire video chain were upgraded to greatly increase the machines bandwidth.
On the list however, the resolution and bandwidth are the same at 1600 x 1200 - 130Mghz? So, one of the 2 specs is wrong, or they're both wrong? I think niether one is really accurate. Even a brand new 8000 would struggle with 130Mhz while a newer 8500 is really closer to the specs on the VDC WEb-site for the current model 8500Ultra = 2500 x 2000 at 150Mhhz
http://vdcds.com/products/8500.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevmann View Post

After viewing these along with other 1080P shots on a Marquee. I am not convinced that an 8" projector or at least a 8" Marquee is up to the job when it comes to 1080P. Seems a bit too soft to my eyes. Lesser interlaced and progressive signals on my stock M8500 with stock lenses looks sharper to me. I'm not saying these look bad, Hardly, I just noticed, based on screenshots alone ( which is not a reliable indicator) that 1080P is not the best reolution for 8" Marquees.

I don't mean to be rude but I think there must be something wrong with your web-browsing monitor. I have set up a dozen stock 8500's at lesser resolutions with the stock lenses and none of them looked sharper at lesser resolutions, much less 720P.

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post #24 of 53 Old 04-26-2007, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevmann View Post

After viewing these along with other 1080P shots on a Marquee. I am not convinced that an 8" projector or at least a 8" Marquee is up to the job when it comes to 1080P. Seems a bit too soft to my eyes. Lesser interlaced and progressive signals on my stock M8500 with stock lenses looks sharper to me.

You and I would be in complete agreement on this then!!! My stock barco at 1080i is sharper. At 1080p, it looks a lot like these screenshots.

Come my brother, be prepared to be burned by the villagers for heresy!

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post #25 of 53 Old 04-26-2007, 10:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draganm View Post


I don't mean to be rude but I think there must be something wrong with your web-browsing monitor.

I use a Hitachi CM823f 21" CRT monitor. It's not the monitor and I don't think you are rude. I just see a softness is the screen shoots. They don't look as sharp as they should. Perhaps it's just the camera, who knows. I've never tried 1080P on my Marquee so all I can go by are these and other shots. The 1080P shots of the blended G90s look super sharp and while I do not expect any M8500 to look as good, The comparison is what makes it obvious to me that these shots are a on the soft side and perhaps 1080P is a bit much for an 8" projector. Just my observation. I could be wrong. I would obviously have to see them side by side to make a real judgment.
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post #26 of 53 Old 04-26-2007, 12:08 PM
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oh, well if the benchmark is a G90 then yes, no way an 8" tubes can compete with a 9 incher, plain and simple. You can get 2 MP modded 8500's and stack them for the price of a single G90 though.
I actually have not tried 1080I on my 8500 because I run HTPC but I am sure those shots are easilly sharper than a stock 8500 running 720P or any other resolution for that matter. IMO, a stock Marquee 8500's real value is in it's potential, in other words easy to upgrade down the road. In As-is form they are not sharp, they have poor colors (with HD8 lenses), they have considerable back-ground noise, and they tend to crush the bottom end if set with less than 10IRE Black pedestal.
Now take that same PJ, add a set of 145 lenses and MP video chain and you have something which approaches a 9" set costing twice as much. I think the above screenshots look fantastic, I'm not seeing the big difference between them and Cliffs' G90 shots, less than 10% sharpness on my LCD monitor?

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post #27 of 53 Old 04-26-2007, 12:58 PM
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Yours:



Mine:



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post #28 of 53 Old 04-26-2007, 01:02 PM
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Yours:



Mine:



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post #29 of 53 Old 04-26-2007, 02:14 PM
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Cliff,

I'm not sure cencio is operating a stock or modded 8 inch system. It certainly doesn't measure up to your beauty!

Have you seen the new Uber MP V2+ Mods or whatever the name of the week is for the MP mods to the VIM and Neck boards? It will be interesting to see what his 8500 will do at the meet in May. More interesting will be the opinions of those attending and further discussion on lowly 8 inch machines and 1080p.

By the way I'm very interested becasue I've got one of the lowly ones waiting on the Uber boards!

Mark...
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post #30 of 53 Old 04-26-2007, 02:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by draganm View Post

oh, well if the benchmark is a G90 then yes, no way an 8" tubes can compete with a 9 incher, plain and simple. You can get 2 MP modded 8500's and stack them for the price of a single G90 though.
I actually have not tried 1080I on my 8500 because I run HTPC but I am sure those shots are easilly sharper than a stock 8500 running 720P or any other resolution for that matter. IMO, a stock Marquee 8500's real value is in it's potential, in other words easy to upgrade down the road. In As-is form they are not sharp, they have poor colors (with HD8 lenses), they have considerable back-ground noise, and they tend to crush the bottom end if set with less than 10IRE Black pedestal.
Now take that same PJ, add a set of 145 lenses and MP video chain and you have something which approaches a 9" set costing twice as much. I think the above screenshots look fantastic, I'm not seeing the big difference between them and Cliffs' G90 shots, less than 10% sharpness on my LCD monitor?

overclkr, with his above comparo just expressed it better than I could ever do. This is what I mean by an 8" not doing 1080P justice. A picture tells a thousand words. I will admit though, I do not understand what you mean when you make the claim that 1080P will be sharper than any other resolution on a M8500.
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