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post #61 of 77 Old 04-06-2012, 10:45 PM
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Following your recommendations I got my external information and did my (some?) homework. So, now that I have narrowed down my dilemmas, would you please offer your opinions/experiences?

Since HDCP is a hw thing raised by a sw flag that does not exist in bd backups, assuming I limit myself to playing only backups of my bd's:

If the quality of the hdmi-to-YPbPr conversion algorithms (or whatever) is equal, is there an image-quality advantage to using an internal card rather than an external one such as a normal HDMI-component adaptor or Moome's?
Reason I'm asking is that my guess is that the internal cards just do internally the D-A conversion and their YPbPr (or RGB) output ends up exactly where the wires leaving the back of the pj's BNC inputs go. If this is true, the only difference between an internal and an external card would be esthetics and "factory look". In this case, options 1,2 and 3 should be image-quality-wise equal. Hence, the -intermediate, you are not off the hook yet- question is: if YPbPr out of a media player (mp) is 1080i, is there an advantage (strictly in image quality) to using the mp hdmi output and transforming it to YPbPr outside the mp (1,2,4) over just taking the YPbPr straight from the mp (3)?

My options as I see them are:
(1) HDMI mp/pc output>HDMI-to-YPbPr converter>Dune F YPbPr-to-RGBHV>Cine8 RGBHV input
(2) HDMI mp/pc output>Greg Eisemann internal card (unless I have misunderstood info on his website, it replaces the standard port 3 card: http://www.eisemann-theater.com/inde...mid=73&op=page)
(3) YPbPr mp/pc output>Dune F YPbPr-to-RGBHV>Cine8 RGBHV input
(4) HDMI mp/pc output>Moome etc. HDMI-to-RGBHV external card>RGBHV>Dune F passthrough (no upscaling etc)>Cine8 RGBHV input

PS. Ericglo, would you, please, explain what are on/off cr and motion resolution?
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post #62 of 77 Old 04-07-2012, 08:49 AM
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I am not familiar with the Dune, so I will let others comment on your options.

On/off contrast ratio is the difference between your black level and white level. Gamma corrected CRTs can achieve 700k to 1 (according to one G70 measured by Darinp2). The best non-iris digital JVC does anywhere between 20k and 50k to 1. Everything else is lower than that.

Motion resolution is the resolution of the display with moving images. You know like just about everything. I haven't checked lately, but digitals that display a static image at 1080p are usually quite a bit less when the picture is moving. A CRT can display a 1080p image in motion.

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post #63 of 77 Old 04-07-2012, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

I am not familiar with the Dune, so I will let others comment on your options.

On/off contrast ratio is the difference between your black level and white level. Gamma corrected CRTs can achieve 700k to 1 (according to one G70 measured by Darinp2). The best non-iris digital JVC does anywhere between 20k and 50k to 1. Everything else is lower than that.

Motion resolution is the resolution of the display with moving images. You know like just about everything. I haven't checked lately, but digitals that display a static image at 1080p are usually quite a bit less when the picture is moving. A CRT can display a 1080p image in motion.

The Dune will only be used if I see that there is an advantage in sending DVD over SDI and through the Dune rather than through the mp's HDMI or YPbPr. If I will be having 2 sources (DVD and mp) the Dune is the cheapest (since I already own it) way to switch them into the pj's RGBHV sole input. As far as I know I cannot input YPbPr or RGBHV into port 3 (D-9 connector), so that leaves me only with the 5 BNC's (RGBHV).

Didn't know about the nominal resolution "issue" w/ digitals. Will play the smartass w/ a couple of guys I have in mind...

Then I am faced with the next dilemma:
YPbPr straight from the mp [which I can place really close to the Dune/pj and have a component cable (3RCA-to-D15) length smaller than 1m (3')]
HDMI converted to YPbPr and then (over the same length 1m component cable) into the Dune/pj
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post #64 of 77 Old 04-08-2012, 11:03 AM
 
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Do you prefer the picture from a highish-end digital pj? I am seriously asking the question, as I am still where I was many years back, except for a disappointing viewing of a mid-range HD dlp a friend was considering 2-3 yrs back. DVDs were appalling, BDs very grainy. Sharpness, etc in BD not better than mine with DVD (plays from a Dune F).[/quote]
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I switched about a year ago for the last time this time to a High end Digital from my last CRT. I havent looked back once. Im in a JVC now wich I just had a chance to even go up in the line from the 1st one I purcheased and the higher you go the better they get of course. I have had sub 3000.00 DLP's and then had to switch back to CRT but this time theres no way Id go back.

Honestly I understand what the differance is between owning a CRT and a DILA but it just seems tome like its getting impossible to live with a CRT. Just reading this thread and what some of you guys have to to to integrate them anymore. I get it, its expensive to upgrade and if you have a top of the line CRT you wouldnt want to settle for less then a high end digital.

But it seems to me that its realy only going to be a matter of time. What would happen of these guys werent around to make mods and keet the old CRT's going?
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post #65 of 77 Old 04-08-2012, 12:04 PM
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Vic,
The biggest issue is HDMI, which can be had for $350 or less. Most of the other stuff are the devices that would already be in the chain anyway. I agree if Moome or HDfury (or Greg for the Barcos) ever goes then life will be a lot more difficult.

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post #66 of 77 Old 04-08-2012, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Honestly I understand what the differance is between owning a CRT and a DILA but it just seems tome like its getting impossible to live with a CRT. Just reading this thread and what some of you guys have to to to integrate them anymore. I get it, its expensive to upgrade and if you have a top of the line CRT you wouldnt want to settle for less then a high end digital.

Yes, CRT can be a little impractical at times. If having a television with a footprint equivalent to an industrial copier does not swim well, that's what the other options are for. But in comparison, CRT still has been around the longest. It is the best understood and has had more time to have kinks worked out. One has to admit, the fact that these upgrades can be accomplished on 15 year old projectors underscores the quality of the product and dedication of the user community. See if you can do THAT in 15 years with your Digital JVC.

Also, isn't part of the fun with all hobbys being able to hot-rod things?

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post #67 of 77 Old 04-08-2012, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic C View Post

I switched about a year ago for the last time this time to a High end Digital from my last CRT. I havent looked back once. Im in a JVC now wich I just had a chance to even go up in the line from the 1st one I purcheased and the higher you go the better they get of course. I have had sub 3000.00 DLP's and then had to switch back to CRT but this time theres no way Id go back.

Honestly I understand what the differance is between owning a CRT and a DILA but it just seems tome like its getting impossible to live with a CRT. Just reading this thread and what some of you guys have to to to integrate them anymore. I get it, its expensive to upgrade and if you have a top of the line CRT you wouldnt want to settle for less then a high end digital.

But it seems to me that its realy only going to be a matter of time. What would happen of these guys werent around to make mods and keet the old CRT's going?

At the risk of turning this into (another?) crt vs digital thread (which, although I am only a thread pick upper rather than starter, I do not want, at least not before I figure out what I need to do) my impression (and, from what I understand, the concensus here) is that even at a few tens of times more $ for a high-end dila (or whatever) than any addtl card, you still only get part of what the crt will give you. Obviously, there will eventually be a time when it just won't be feasible any more to keep the crt up to date (at which -or long before- you would also need to scrap your $ dila), but until then just buying a card to bring it up to the hdmi/HD time is by any definition or standard a small "tweak".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

Vic,
The biggest issue is HDMI, which can be had for $350 or less. Most of the other stuff are the devices that would already be in the chain anyway. I agree if Moome or HDfury (or Greg for the Barcos) ever goes then life will be a lot more difficult.

So, if the mp has a YPbPr output outputting 1080i and 1080p, and the mp-to-pj YPbPr cable is high quality and kept short (say 3-5ft) is there an advantage in using any of the external cards? If yes, what should I expect?

If no, would this apply to Greg's internal card as well? Again, if yes, what should I expect?
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post #68 of 77 Old 04-18-2012, 07:16 AM
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Please, anyone? There is no way I can directly compare these myself so I am relying on your impartial experiences.

Media player to Cine 8 options:

media player YPbPr output to PJ (3' cable)
media player hdmi via Moome or HDFury to PJ (3' cable)
media player hdmi to Greg's internal card

I would appreciate qualitative and quantitative comparisons. Thanks.
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post #69 of 77 Old 04-18-2012, 06:28 PM
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I personally have not tried Greg's cards, but am about to. A customer had me get him to do all his mods to a BArco 1209s, the boards should be here in 2-3 weeks.

I haven't read this whole thread, but the general consensus is that HDMI definitely is the better quality signal over component, I don't think anyone will argue that.

THe Moome external box is better than the HDFury. There's a thread somewhere on my forum that has oscilliscope pix, showing the limitations of the Fury. I have however used the Fury, and it works fine.

With either the Fury or the Moome, HDMI handshaking shouldn't be an issue, provided you're running under a 25' good quality cable. By your above post, you're going to be fine either way.

You might need to do some tweaking to front and back porch settings in the media player, as some Barcos will exhibit some edge foldover with some sources. AS long as you can tweak it within the media player, you'll be fine.


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post #70 of 77 Old 04-19-2012, 02:45 AM
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I personally have not tried Greg's cards, but am about to. A customer had me get him to do all his mods to a BArco 1209s, the boards should be here in 2-3 weeks.

I'll be right here waiting for you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme View Post

I haven't read this whole thread, but the general consensus is that HDMI definitely is the better quality signal over component, I don't think anyone will argue that.

Please, correct me: my understansing is that hdmi is essentially a digital YPbPr as is the information on a BD, therefore in my 1st and 2nd option it would come down to what makes the better D-A (hdmi to component) conversion: the media player internally (digital YPbPr on BD to analog YPbPr output) or Moome (hdmi YPbPr to analog RGBHV -or maybe also YPbPr?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme View Post

THe Moome external box is better than the HDFury. There's a thread somewhere on my forum that has oscilliscope pix, showing the limitations of the Fury. I have however used the Fury, and it works fine.

OK, clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme View Post

With either the Fury or the Moome, HDMI handshaking shouldn't be an issue, provided you're running under a 25' good quality cable. By your above post, you're going to be fine either way.

3' referred to YPbPr/RGBHV analog cable runs. HDMI cable could run close to 30' or even a little over that. Rack to pj is about 30'. I will need to decide on which will run 30', the SPDIF coaxial output or the HDMI, and it ooks like I'll need to place the media player next to the PJ and 30' from the rack so that I favor the hdmi cable run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme View Post

You might need to do some tweaking to front and back porch settings in the media player, as some Barcos will exhibit some edge foldover with some sources. AS long as you can tweak it within the media player, you'll be fine.

If you would, please, explain this?
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post #71 of 77 Old 05-13-2012, 02:17 AM
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Hi Curt.

Have you had a chance to give Greg's card a run for its money yet?
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post #72 of 77 Old 05-14-2012, 09:02 PM
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Not hi jacking but was curious to know if the Moome external box would be better than an IFB card for a 1272q . The pricing on the ext is easier to deal with and it makes sense to have something to use with any PJ that you might upgrade to .

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post #73 of 77 Old 05-14-2012, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jillbrazil View Post

Not hi jacking but was curious to know if the Moome external box would be better than an IFB card for a 1272q . The pricing on the ext is easier to deal with and it makes sense to have something to use with any PJ that you might upgrade to .

If you plan on possibly getting something other than a sony in the future then get the external.

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post #74 of 77 Old 05-14-2012, 09:26 PM
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Thank you for the quick reply . I'm an absolute beginner at this and I like what I see . I suppose my next question would be why the ext is not advertised on the Curt Palme site ? In case of no patience does anyone know how long it takes for a Moome to reach our shores once ordered ? I'm just asking out of curiosity because it's going to be some time with this new project to learn the basics and get up to speed .

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post #75 of 77 Old 05-14-2012, 09:50 PM
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It has something to do with possible HDCP issues. Moome is a nice guy and very cautious of USA laws. So he is a little timid to keep certain products on any site here in the USA.

But you can e-mail hime directly to the address on the curt palm site to ask him about it.
There might be one for sale on the Buy and sell forum over on curts site.

usually it takes about week but can take up to 4 weeks. depending on his stock and the mail. I have always gotten my Vim HD cards in about 10 days.

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post #76 of 77 Old 06-10-2012, 12:37 AM
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Does anyone have experience with both HD Fury I and HD Fury III? Would you, please, inform me on differences in image quality?

Is Moome's external card also better than HD Fury III (I understand it is better than HD Fury I)?
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post #77 of 77 Old 06-19-2012, 01:53 PM
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If anyone has experiece it would be a great help. There is no way I can compare myself.

Also: has anyone connected the hdfury 3 to port 3 (hd-9) on a Barco Cine series? HDfury sells their units with an option of an HD15-to-HD9 cable precisely so that it is connected to Barcos' port 3. Barco manual and my discussion with them back then was that it needs an external converter of some kind (Barco made it). It would not take an RGBHV (say over an HD15-to-HD9 cable) signal straight in. Also, Greg Eisemann says that port 3 has some issues.
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